white corian/solid surface--I am crazy?

16 years ago

Hi! I am a LONG time lurker on this board and GW in general, but this is my first post. You kitchen folks helped me immensely when I remodeled my kitchen in 2003, and now we're building, and once again, the info and education I get here is invaluable. You all are great!

I REALLY want white corian for my countertops. Part of the reason is I love white and it will go with the general "look" I am trying to pull off, and part of the reason is I can only afford the least expensive colors of corian! Which are the SOLID whites.

It seems everyone I tell what I'm going to get tries to talk me out of it! Will I regret this, as everbody seems to think?

Does anyone out there have a solid white (or off-white) solid-surface countertop in the kitchen, and LOVE it? Is the upkeep a nightmare? Please tell me your experiences with LIGHT solid-color (no flecks, no speckles)solid surface.

Also, are the solid whites like Cameo White and Glacier White too "cold feeling" even when combined with cherry cabinetry?

Thanks in advance, and thanks again, y'all, for all your help in the past!

Featured Answer

Jean Popowitz

16 years ago

I have friends who've had white Corian for decades and still love it. I had green Corian in two of my past homes and am seriously considering it again in another color for this remodel. I love the matte finish and the integrated sink. The only caveat with it is heat; you must use a trivet for hot pans and be careful to not pour a lot of boiling water into the sink. It was never a problem for me. My only problem with it now is that it's not the most environmentally friendly choice I could make; but I'm having to make other environmental compromises in this remodel. You can only do what you can do, right? If your choices are either Corian or laminate, I'd say go Corian. Good luck!

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Comments (65)

hostalover67
Original Author
16 years ago
The link below to a Kraft Maid kitchen is kind of the look I am going for. I am a light & airy, fresh & clean kinda gal, as opposed to warm and cozy type.

I will have the light turquoise walls, but might add some more color to the backsplash--turquoise, red & yellow, but then again, maybe I'll just go with white. The floors will be a light butterscotch hopscotch tile, and the cherry cabinets will be raised panel in about the same color stain, not too dark--the whole look kind of a fresh and clean, casual traditional?

BTW I'm OK with being thought crazy, too! My DH is known to say "Can't we just be NORMAL?!"

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! I need to start dinner, and I REALLY need to digest all you've given me to think through!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: {{!gwi}}
Fori
16 years ago
I currently have speckledy Corian and it does hide stuff. The sink is solid pink, which is close enough to white to stain plenty and the pan scrape marks do come off without much trouble. I don't know how tough an all-white counter would be, though, but you'd for sure know when it needed cleaning!

As far as looks go, it'd be wonderfully crisp and clean with cherry--I think you could even go with a darker stain if you get some medium tone colors in the room as well.

My previous kitchen had stainless and this one will too (I did mention it was PINK Corian didn't I?) when we remodel, but I must confess, I can't hurt my Corian. The sink isn't as easy to keep looking good as stainless because we are slobs, but functionally it is a great sink. We do dump boiling water down it (how else should one drain pasta?) but I guess that's not a good idea?

Anyway, I think it'll LOOK good. And if you're accustomed to caring for laminate, you'll find Corian tougher (and refinishable) and will already be in the habit of not scalding your counter. I guess you just have to decide if you're willing to keep it clean.
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c9pilot
16 years ago
I feel obligated to mention that the white Corian counters I used in Guam also had the integrated Corian sinks. If there was one thing worse than the counters, it was the sinks.
Think about it: that's where you're scraping plates, scrubbing dirty pots & pans, etc. Also, no safe place for hot stuff except on the stove! I know, I know, some of you are smart enough to pull out the right sized trivets and place them in the perfect spot, but then there are people like me, who hear the buzzer, grab the hot pads, pull the big roaster out, and, uh....balance with one hand while spacing two trivets out to the right distance, because they aren't big enough for a roaster or other big casserole dishes...people like me need counters that can handle a little more heat and metal scraping! I just can't imagine my cast iron pan on a white corian counter (I can barely lift it with one hand if there's anything in it).
Anyway, we scrubbed and scrubbed and rarely got that sink sparkling white.
However, this house had speckly beige corian in the bathrooms and it was really, really nice in there, easy to clean. So I'm not totally against corian if the application is right!
Signed, Lisa the porcelain tile counter lady!
jakkom
16 years ago
I believe a while back there was someone who posted a photo of her white Corian sink and counter. She had it for some years and it was flawless.

Yes, it does take more maintenance. But if you don't mind that, and want the look, I say go for it. The marks certainly clean up easily enough, and one thing I love about solid surfacing is the invisible seams. I was really disappointed to learn that quartz counters had a visible seam - darn!
patches_02
16 years ago
I have light corian with the specks and the intergrated white sink. Love it, not any any problem. Use soft scrub if i need to get something off. With the sink, i run hot water in it before i pour boiling water off anything i'm cooking and have never had any problem. Have quartz on the isle.
patti_bee
16 years ago
The house we just left has white Corian counters and they were easy easy to clean. We lived there for 15 years with two teenagers so ease of cleaning was important. Usually just a spritz of Fantastic took off the stains (red wine, metal scuffs); I loved watching it just dissolve. [OK, I need a life!] I like the look of the white counters and it sounds as if you do too. Go for it.
User
16 years ago
My mom, a chef, has had white Corian for 20 years or so and she still loves it. It doesn't look too different than when she first got it either. She is an avid cook, cuts directly on the counter and although she keeps a clean house; she is not a clean freak. I think she uses soft scrub to clean it. I just asked her the other day if she would like a new countertop for her birthday but she would rather keep the Corian. Good luck in your decision.
cheryl217
16 years ago
I had my Everest Corian installed one year ago today...I love it! I'm not sure what was meant by the area around the specks because mine is a flat smooth surface...I wrote my name with magic marker in red and black, on an extra piece...started to panic when I couldn't get it off...used a drop of soft scrub and it was gone...also, the bleach used to remove stains, I don't get it, mine is not porous, nothing stains. Sauce and coffee, etc, lay on top and wipe right off even when dry...

{{!gwi}}
hostalover67
Original Author
16 years ago
Cheryl, your corian looks very nice! And I love your cabinets. Thanks for posting that pic, 'cause your kitchen is very similar to the look I am after!

About the stains on the Everest sample: I am going to try to post a pic so you can see what I am talking about. You should be able to see the areas of red, blue, green and yellow. I put drops of full-strength food coloring and let it sit overnight before trying to remove it. I was thinking of Kool-Aid and Jell-O and such with this test.

Maybe I just got a defective sample piece? I DO really like the Everest and would love to be able to consider it as an option...
amck2
16 years ago
A good friend of mine has had plain white corian countertops AND white cabinets in her kitchen for the past 9 years. She's someone who could afford any counter surface she wanted. It's a beautiful kitchen.
She has a custom painted tile backsplash behind her cooktop, beautiful pottery collected from her world travels and nice rugs for pops of color. Her sink counter is about 12 feet long and grilled windows all along it look out onto a beautiful garden area in the forefront, and a pasture where her horses graze in the background. She wanted the white palette, so that all those other elements would be showcased.

Her kitchen gets moderate, not heavy, use. Even after nearly a decade it still looks fresh and not trend-driven. It's one of the loveliest kitchens I've ever been in.
amanda_t
16 years ago
Okay, I just have to say that your Kraftmaid picture is beautiful, I have the same one saved somewhere. I, too, like a fresh, clean look and for the most part tend to avoid things that are rustic, earthy and... well... beige. A solid white counter would definitely look great with some color in your backsplash...

And you, know, I'm wondering... you said something about, crevices? Around the flecks?? That absorbed some stains? That sounds... really not right. Do you think the sample was cracked or something? Weird. But the last thing I wanted to say is, maybe get one of the cutting board sized samples of solid white and leave it on your counter--by the sink for awhile, then near the coffee maker, then over by the range--during a normal week just to see what it's like to live with. That might give you a better idea of what you'd be dealing with than just pouring stuff on a smaller sample.

(But really, I think you should go for it because your inspiration photo is loverly!!) :)
cheryl217
16 years ago
hostalover67, I'm going to do the same thing to a piece I have left from the sink cutout...I'll post tomorrow how it looks..
hostalover67
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks, Cheryl! I'm curious to hear what happens!

I think my mind is made up in favor of white--just gotta decide which white! Decisions, decisions!

Thanks, everyone!
Fori
16 years ago
That Everest is speckled enough to not drive you completely insane and it really does look like an ideal choice for white Corian. Except for the staining. I'm surprised it didn't come clean!

Most of your kitchen accidents won't be as rough as food coloring, so don't worry if it takes some elbow grease to get that out--and I bet you can get it out with some Soft-Scrub or similar. Have you tried something with bleach? Like Comet?

Some family members leave cast iron in my sink where it rusts...that takes some work to clean up (plus the pan needs reseasoning, but I digress).

A good test, if you haven't, is to scrub with a rough pad like a Scotch brite. If it messes up the surface, you won't rule it out--you just won't use it on your counter--but if you CAN use it (like on a matte surface for example), it makes things easier to keep clean plus allow you to buff out scratches (which won't show on white anyway).
hostalover67
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks for your thoughts. I know a little Kool-aid or whatever is not the same as full-strength food coloring... BUT-- I AM troubled by the fact that the staining seems to have gone beyond the surface. I did try Soft Scrub with bleach, bleach full strength and abrasive cleansers--the stains seems to be below the surface... So I'm really curious to hear Cheryl's results.
cheryl217
16 years ago
Before...I hope you see this... {{!gwi}}

After...I couldn't find my soft scrub so I used clorox cleanup and a scotch brite sponge...
{{!gwi}}
hollylh
16 years ago
Hi--I haven't read all the posts above. Just want to say that my parents have had white Corian (no flecks, solid white) for 20 years and it looks great. I have spent a lot of time in that kitchen and the only thing I don't like about it is not being able to cut on it and not being able to put hot things on it. But as far as looks/maintenence, it's great. And so nice and light and bright.

BTW, they have pecan-stained hardwood floors, white cabs, a delft-blue tile backsplash, and in the desk area of the kitchen some very nice subtle (not kitchen-kitschy) blue wallpaper. The whole look is very slightly 80s but not much and I think has held up incredibly well. If you replaced their brass hardware with nickel or something it would look very current.

Get what YOU want!

HTH
laura1202
16 years ago
We had Glacier White Corian in the matte finish in our old house for 10 years and I LOVED it. Very clean and peaceful looking. Clean up was a breeze with 409 Glass and Surface or Softscrub/Clorox Clean-Up for "stains" (nothing really stains it). I miss my integrated sink soooooo much (even tho I now have granite and stainless, which is supposedly so "in" @@). I actually had white cabinets too and with colorful accesories and hardwood flooring, the look wasn't *too igloo, imo. I think it would look amazing with cherry cabinets as well.

I have posted this picture before (it may be what jkom is referring to), the Corain had been resurfaced that day, in preparation for putting the house on the market, which is another PLUS as someone else mentioned above.

Get what YOU want and love, and you won't regret it.
Good Luck with your build!

{{!gwi}}
kitchenchaos
16 years ago
My dad's house has White Corian. It has been there I believe since Corian first came out, a long time anyway. It is very easy to keep clean and it still looks new to this day. He had it buffed one time during a remodel. My brother installed a look a like product. He hates it. It has cracked and been repaired and it looks terrible. Maybe there are a difference in brands?
hostalover67
Original Author
16 years ago
Yay! You can't know how relieved I am, Cheryl, that your Everest came clean. Must be some crazy fluke with my sample...
And thanks, Laura, for the pic of the Glacier--it's great to see what a large expanse of that particular color looks like! Looks great!
katieb2007
16 years ago
We have had white Corian countertop and sink since 1992. It has been easy to keep clean, and I, too, raised 3 sons with same age difference as yours, in this home. Mine could use a little professional sprucing, but they have served me well!
cheryl217
16 years ago
Hostalover67, If it was me, I'd fool around with that sample and see what would get it off...even sandpaper...when my Corian was installed, they gave me a kit that had sandpaper and some cleaning stuff...it said use rough sand paper and then a fine one...I might have had mine about two weeks when I felt a scratch...I almost threw up...I realized that one of my coffee mugs had a chip out of it...when I went to turn it so I could pick it up, it left the scratch...I grabbed a new scotch brite sponge and scrubbed it without anything else...it removed the scratch enough that if I had to now I couldn't tell you where it was...never even opened the kit yet...

Glad I could help!
epiccycle
16 years ago
I love my Glacier White top. I guess it requires a little more effort to keep it looking tidy since nothing gets hidden, but I consider that a plus. No problems with staining, a little soft scrub does the trick. I love how the sink and top seamlessly blend together, literally and visually, and also how it reflects much needed light into my kitchen. It is a cool color, but as others have said, you can easily warm things up with other elements like the cherry cabinetry you like. That the best Corian color is also one of the least expensive is just (white) icing on the cake ; ) Get what you love.
kailuamom
16 years ago
I had a white corian island top and had no problem keeping it clean.

Added benefit - If you can't find a piece of paper when writing a phone number, just write on the counter!

One downside - I ended up with a few shirts with bleach lines on my tummy. I would clean with bleach and inadvertantly leave residue (of the soft scrub with bleach) or DH would spay bleach water on and not get it all off.
hostalover67
Original Author
16 years ago
Frankoma--my thoughts exactly!!! Thanks for validating them. Do you like your routed drainboard grooves--sorry, don't know what they're called! Are they hard to clean?

Anybody else with white corian pics?
Fori
16 years ago
Y'all are making me rethink Corian. Not next to the stove for us, maybe, but I really do like my hideous Corian sink. Frankoma, it really does look great with the darker cherry, and are those RUNNELS by your sink?

Most Corian colors do turn me off but the whites are a whole different story. They're really quite nice!

Glad Cheryl's test came out well for the Everest--can you get another sample, Hosta?
amanda_t
16 years ago
I love the contrast with Frankoma's cabinets, so nice!! (and I have those monogram mugs!)

Hostalover, I met with a KD today and I'm looking at doing white Corian with medium-dark QS oak cabinets. So I'm right there with you, honey! If anyone else has pictures, let's see them.... :)
kaye_
16 years ago

Here are pictures of my cameo white corian. I am really glad to read this thread and realize that there are others out there liking white corian. We recently got a new cooktop which we realized too late wasn't the right size for our cut out, thus the gap temporarily filled in with wood support until we figure out what to do. The options are to fill in the gap with corain and resurface the countertop, the problem being here that dialots change and 20 years later the new cameo white might not match the old well enough, or option 2 put in new coutertops. I want to put in an undermount sink anyway and new faucet so am leaning toward the second option(replacing). The funny thing is as I have been researching all the options out there I haven't found anything that I like better yet. I think because my house is victorian and there is lots of white trim and wainscoting , I like the fact that the white sort of blends in and doesn't draw attention to itself. I also sort of like the contrast of the dark wood/light countertops. I have looked at granite, but havne't found one that is white enough for me. I prefer the marbled look over the speckled look and have tried to find a very light marble or granite that would look good with my countertops. I have also looked at ceasarstone, thinking the misty carerra but then decided it was too gray with my floors. So, although I am looking very hard for other options I keep going back to the simplicity of the white corian. I've been thinking for sure that I must be crazy.

After 20 years my countertops could use resurfacing since the previous owner cut on the countertops but otherwise they are in great shape. I can't put hot things on the counters(I use trivets) but I wouldn't be able to put hot things on other surfaces to, I think that with marble and ceasarstone you still have to be careful with hot things. They are not hard to clean, just a little softscrub or spray on a little fantastic.

Best of luck in your decision!
epiccycle
16 years ago
Here's a better shot of the drainboard. It's the hardest part of the counter/sink to keep clean, gunk builds up at the end where the runnels start. I go at it occasionally with the soft scrub and a scrubbie, or a bristle brush works well too. Kind of a pain but I'd get it again in a heartbeat, it's worth the trouble. At least with the white I can see when it needs attention!
3katz4me
16 years ago
I don't think so. I don't have plain white but I have an off-white subtle pattern and I love it. People kind of turned their nose up at me too when I told them I was getting Corian but I wasn't remodeling my kitchen for anyone other than me (and DH) so I didn't care too much about others opinions on something like this.

I find it very easy to keep clean and I like the feel of it - more warm and soft to the touch. I have some granite too - on my island and cooktop area - and I love the beauty of it. However from every other perpsective I prefer the Corian as a countertop material for me personally.
lindawink
16 years ago
I have a combination of granite and Corian also. The Corian on my island is 16 years old. I still love it.

{{!gwi}}
hostalover67
Original Author
16 years ago
Great countertops! I am getting more and more excited about getting my Corian! I'm thinking I will go with the Glacier White.

Those of you who posted pictures--could you tell me what finish you have? Matte, satin or something else?

Any more pictures?

Thanks so much!
3katz4me
16 years ago
hostalover - here's mine - matte finish

{{!gwi}}
jessie21
16 years ago
hostalover, thank you thank you for starting this thread. my cabinets are done and i have to pick my countertops NOW and have been drawn to the corian (or rather, my local fabricator's version of keystone solid surface) and i needed someone to tell me it is ok.

more importantly, i'm so happy to see that others go for the high contrast look that i am wanting but have been a little skittish over going for it. my cabs are very dark.

gibby, your whole kitchen looks great, and seeing the corian area really helps me go for it.

frankoma, can you please share more shots of your kitchen? i just love the high contrast and it's kinda been my vision......yours looks fantastic.
epiccycle
16 years ago
hostalover - my countertop is matte, Dupont calls it "matte/satin"; I think the kitchen designer told me it was easier to maintain than a gloss finish, and it was my preference anyway. Not sure if the maintenance issue is true though, maybe someone with a gloss finish can chime in? I notice in my photos that parts of the counter look shiny and that might increase with routine scrubbing, but mostly I think it's a trick of the camera and light. I use a low abrasive scrubbie (the pink/white one, the name is escaping me, it's late!)

jessie - I've never gotten around to posting pictures of my kitchen, partly because it wasn't finished for a long time. If you like I'll try to take a couple over the next few days and PM you so I don't hijack this thread! I'll warn you though, the rest of my kitchen is pretty "low contrast", so if you like high contrast what you see is what you get :)
celticmoon
16 years ago
20 year old cream/almond Corian here. Love it!
sue36
16 years ago
I haven't read the other responses, but here goes. There are people who love it. A friend of mine's wife is like that. They own two homes (one worth over $2m and the other over $1m) and they have a light colored Corian in both kitchens. The primary residence has white, I think the other is offwhite. She is a neat freak and scrubs everything everyday. She prefers white because you can SEE if it is dirty. She is not one to choose surfaces that hide dirt. They just looked at a recently built home, considering purchasing it, and one of the things she said was that would have to replace the granite counters with Corian. All their sinks are Corian as well.
piegirltoo
16 years ago
I have white Corian in my master bath and love it. It is called Venaro White, and is a white on white swirl. The swirl pattern is very large and barely noticeable, but seems to me a little less stark than plain, brilliant white. My cabinets are white as is my tile. It sounds boring, but it's been so easy to add lots of color with paint, towels, knobs, accessories, etc.
I have Corian in my kitchen, too (salt & pepper fine speckles), and we love it. Granite does nothing for me. I love frankoma's kitchen with the Glacier white.
Sometime back on this forum, someone posted a picture of a chocolate chip cookie sitting on a brown & black granite counter. It was hilarious because you could barely see it.
dixie615
16 years ago
We LOVE our White Jasmine Corian (price class C) which is the lightest of their "Concrete Colors" offering. It is a soft white which Corian describes as "Fresh, creamy base colour with subtle grey and beige particles". It is so easy to care for and really adds light to our small windowless kitchen.
cassie225
16 years ago
I love my corian-vanilla. I have it in kitchen and on my desk in the kitchen. Also have integrated sink. Friends of mine tried to talk me out of it-told me to get granite or Quartz-said corian will get scratches-it does-but that is what gives it character. Just like the scratches in my hardwood floors. I am thinking of putting corian in the bathroom for my countertops. It is so easy to clean and I always use a Mr Clean eraser pad. To me corian has such a nice soft warm look. I had a friend over and she spilled a lot of red soda on my counter-it cleaned up like a breeze
arleneb
16 years ago
My countertops are solid surface that isn't as thick as Corian, but is the same kind of material. It may be a local name because when I google it, the fabricator I used is the only one that comes up under that name.

I used this material because they had a blue that I liked . . . I didn't really like the Corian blues, and in my color scheme -- cream cabinets, yellow walls, blue counters -- it was important to me to get the blue color right.

My integrated sink is a lighter blue, speckled. The integrated sink is one of the things I like best . . . absolutely NO place for yucch to collect. It almost never looks dirty, but when it gets stained, a quick swish with soft scrub does the job.

To solve the problem of not being able to set hot pans on the countertop, I had the area next to the stove inset with tile the same color as the cabinets. I also have one long serving counter done in the same tile so the area by the stove doesn't look out of place. It has worked perfectly . . . I'm thinking my next kitchen will have the same thing. I've liked my solid surface counters a lot.

My make-up table is the same product in matte white. I get lipstick and other makeup on it regularly, and just soft-scrub and it comes off.

You know the pitfalls -- you may be cleaning more often -- but if you love the look, it will be worth it.
bryce5
16 years ago
Did you make a decision yet? Our first remodel of the kitchen, I had installed all white corian countertops, white tile backsplash and we had white cabinets. I love the look! Everything looked so fresh, bright and clean. The countertops were SUPER EASY to maintain! Softscrub took out all marks. Your accessories and wall color can bring in color. Go for what you love.
melrosgirl
16 years ago
I'm so glad you are considering white corian. I love the look of it. Our last house had a light (not white) corian and the house we just built has Corian in Tumbleweed (designer series)...it gets mistaken for granite bc of the swirls in it, etc. Cracks me up (actually granite would have been a little cheaper sadly). Love the look of corian. Post pics when you finally decide what you want!
kompy
16 years ago
I'm a KD and I've had two clients get a solid white Corian top, against my warnings over the past 20 years. I suggested something white, but with a particulate pattern. Family #1 was persuaded by an interior designer to go for the 'all white' look. After two years, my clients came back to my showroom. They sold the house and were now building a new home. They admitted to me that I was right about the white and that they regretted their decision.

The second one I did was about 12 years ago, I think. The client just came into my showroom last week (for a new project)!! She also told me about her white Corian top and that that I was right about it being higher maintainance.

IMHO, solid colors and dark colors/patterns are not a good pick with either solid surface (ie Corian) OR laminate (ie Formica). Quartz would be my choice if I wanted white.

Kompy
josie_m
16 years ago
hostalover67, I like that Kraftmaid picture you posted. It's similar to what I'm doing too. I'm trying to decide on a light corian also. One that I'm considering is Clam Shell, but it's really not that light and I'm concerned there might be too much movement in it. It does look good with my terrazzo floors though. I'm having a hard time narrowing down the off-whites.
deltag
16 years ago
I got Corian linen for my countertops in the kitchen. It is absolutely gorgeous and each time I walk into my kitchen, it brings a smile to my face. It has the clean lines and bright appearance that I like in my kitchen. My walls are are sayberry sage and the cabinets are maple - I will try to post a picture for you.
In terms of maintenance - very, very easy.
I'm happy
dgmarie
16 years ago
I don't mind my speckled corian counters (they are avonite but I think the same thing really) but the sink I hate. It stains constantly. I have to bleach it with soft scrub daily. I am not the original owner of the kitchen so I don't know what she did to the sink, but it is LOUSY.

I wouldn't get corian/avonite again ever. It scratches all the time. I think my old laminant counter top was nicer.
effiemyrtle
16 years ago
I love the look of LivingStone's volcanic ash, but after reading the postings here, I put drops of red, yellow and blue food coloring on the sample. The red and yellow are barely noticeable, but the blue is still there after soft scrub, straight bleach, scotch brite, windex, etc. Just like hostalover67's experiment. I could also see the outlines of each little white fleck on my sample. Could it be that the samples are finished differently somehow than the finished countertop? I then tried a sample of Corian's Mont Blanc, a black/gray/white sample. The white flecks stained on this one also. I stained a sample of Corian's Sandstone - it cleaned right off. I thought I had my decision made, and now I am afraid to go ahead with it. I feel badly about the stains on the Volcanic Ash, since it is the salesman's, but maybe he should be aware of what this does - and maybe he can remove it.
Vicki
16 years ago
I have white corion that is 30 years old in our bathrooms and it still looks like new. I'd like to respond to the comment about Swanstone and its tendency to leave gray streaks. I have a swanstone sink in my kitchen and I wouldn't have anything else. Any spot or streaks come right out with any abrasive pad, even sandpaper. I have it in our 30 year old shower surround and it can be sanded to look like new. I'm sold on swanstone.
debbie_2008
16 years ago
I have off white corian now, and replacing it with granite. My corian is full of scratches. I hate it. I'd love to know how people keep it so nice.