Dilly- I am not the best one to draw up a kitchen plan for you, but I will make a couple of recommendations, on the overall space. I would add a door, from the living room, into your new kitchen. I would also move the dining room door to the left, closer to the basement stairs. These changes will improve your flow and make setting up the dining room easier. Why walk around the table, to get to the kitchen?

I think the back wall will be beautiful with windows, but I would consider a higher window on the other wall, if it worked over the sink or a corner banquette.

Can I ask why you want a dining table for 4-6 people in the kitchen, when you have one in the dining room? Could you open the dining room up to the kitchen or consider a smaller table or banquette in the space? Would you consider a seating area, rather than a dining area and use the island for informal dining?

It's a large space, but you hope to incorporate a lot of different functions into it. You also have doors to the dining room, basement stairs, living room (which I think you need) and slider to the deck. Would you consider a single french door to the deck, if it saves some wall space, depending on the plan?

I look forward to seeing what Lisa, Bmore, Buehl and others come up with, for your plan. Have fun! :)

Lavender - yes, I am open to a smaller table or banquette. Need it for most meals, homework, projects, etc. I have a small 12x12 formal DR that I want to keep separate. Yer, I would consider a single door to deck if it makes for a better floor plan.

Thanks so much for your help.

dilly...I had a "blank slate" space also for the addition we are planning. The plan below is close to what I think we are doing. Anyway, I found a room planner on the Ethan Allen Furniture website, "2D Room Planner". You can draw your space then they have multiple objects and shapes you can drop into your space. Like for the cabinets I just used a rectangular shape and sized it to fit the cabinet sizes I am considering. I did a ton of designs and you can save them on there also. It was way easier than some of the other design software out there, plus it was fun. Just thought I'd share.

Dilly- I don't know why you're not getting more responses...but here's a quick sketch. The pantry is to block the view into the powder room, from the new opening to the living room :)

Closet on the back of the powder room for coats...moved the garage door over just a smidge, to make room for a bench with hooks. Also great place to store shoes and boots, under the bench!

There's a little desk, tucked in between the living room entry and the slider. A smaller french door to the deck, would give you a bigger desk area. I guessed on the kitchen, but if you want more windows, switch the sink and range. This way, you have windows on either side of the range and fridge on one side, oven/microwave on the other. The sink is on the island, with seating for at least four.

The corner banquette is great for kids/homework and informal meals. I put the flat screen TV on the wall, so you could see it from the baquette or the kitchen. It's a big wall, so you could have a fairly big TV...depening on what you want.

This is just a quick idea and mainly gets you the powder room, closet, pantry and door openings, leaving a large space where you can play with kitchen and the rest of it. Again, you could add more windows or switch the kitchen and seating area, but I just put corner windows over the banquette, for balanced light...and I like the look of corner windows :)

Hope this gives you some ideas and more people add their thoughts, as well! {{gwi:1949144}}From Kitchen plans

Here's a few more pictures, with windows on either side of the range, a corner banquette and bench with hooks...all from my saved pictures. {{gwi:1949145}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures
{{gwi:1549243}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures
{{gwi:1949146}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

I should have switched the fridge and wall oven, when I moved the sink on the island. I had it on the other end, then realized it would be too close to the range.

Hope you get some more input!

Thanks Mercymy - I will check out Ethan Allen's software. Your plan is exactly what I have in mind, but I think the few extra feet makes it work.

Lavender - love that second photo. Thanks for the different perspectives.

My architect came up with a plan based on a slightly smaller footprint. He aligned by half bath with the upstairs plumbing. This is a smaller footprint, almost 24x14, but I still feel there is room for improvement. Theanks to GW, I know the aisle widths are not adequate, but I can correct that by making the cabinets along the back wll narrow. This is the architect's plan:

I have the cabinets laid out, but I still wonder if there is room to improve to overall use of the space and flow. Any help or ideas are welcome. Thank you so much GW for all the fabulous ideas. I have learned alot already.

Here is a link that might be useful:

dilly... I think I need an engineering degree to read that blueprint!! There's so much on there, I can't see the design itself...lol!

So, this is what your architect is proposing?

*sigh*

Buehl- There's got to be a better plan. Will a powder room even fit in that space?

Dilly- Do you like this plan? Where's the TV? It's a long walk to put away your coat...and where are the hooks and bench? I don't think my plan is that good, but I don't like this one either (no offense). Hopefully, we can help you come up with something better :)

Is there absolutely no space in your foyer for a small coat closet? It wouldn't have to be very long - enough for guests coats. Or may be a coat rack in the foyer? Then can you carve out a small area in your garage for another small coat closet for shoes/boots for the current coats of the family members. Off season coats could, maybe, be kept in each persons own bedroom closets. Try to get the coat closet out of the kitchen by building or configuring two smaller ones - it will free up some space.

i don't know about you guys, but i want the powder room door as close to where i park my truck as is humanly possible.
absolute requirement in this house!

Lavender, I agree! That's why I "sighed"!

There are so many issues with this one! From the barrier kitchen island to the impossible spacing (and location) of the table to the almost useless location of the coat closet ... I could go on.

Dilly_NY really needs our help!!

Buehl- I'm so glad to see you say that! I was hoping it wasn't just me :)

Dilly- You said you'd like a loveseat, but your plan leaves no room for a coffee table or ottoman, and barely enough space for an end table, by the slider. Your view would be the person sitting in the chair, right in front of you.

Ideally, it would be lovely to have room for a table and a separate seating area...like the old keeping rooms, but I don't think you have room for it, with all the other things you need to fit in the space. That's one reason I suggested the banquette. It gives you seating at the table, but if it's designed well, with comfy cushions, you can sit there and watch TV, too. It's great for kids and with all the outdoor fabrics available today, it's practical, too.

Do you have to keep the door to the garage, in its current position? If we could move that (maybe over by the dining room wall) it would make a corner there, where you'd have one less walkway and maybe find room for a little seating area. Part of the problem are so many doors...it makes it more challenging to work with the space and keep all those walkways open.

Thank you for helping. I am not a spacial person, so it is hard for me to design. I think my architect just tries to cram it all in and give me what I want.

Buehl - yes, your plan shown above is the plan on my current blueprint. I feel if I push out the extension another foot, or 18", or recess fridge into garage and get narrow cabinets along garage wall, I can correct alot of the kitchen spacing issues. But I only want to add additional square footage if its going to improve the plan. I have also considered moving the powder room to the coat closet spot and addding space (now shown as deck) so that the kitchen wall continues on from the the living room wall as shown on my first diagram above. If I did this, it essentially adds 5 feet to the room. If I saw how this could improve the plan, I'd do it. I do not have to open the wall between the LR and kitchen, near basement stairs.

I feel the table is just in the middle of nowhere, awkward at best. DH wants loveseat, but I feel 2 chairs might be better. I have thought about swapping the placement of the seating and Dining table, but then the seating seems awkward.

Blfenton - I have a 1'x2' closet in the foyer that is not large enough for hangers. I could put some hooks. We actually opened the wall and added a few inches to the closet but it can't go any deeper due to my chimney. The coat closet on the kitchen plan is actually my current coat closet, but the architect moved the door to open into the DR entrance, which clearly isn't ideal.

Lavender_lass - There is no bench on my current plan :(. The tv is planned to be on the powder room wall. Do I like this plan? In some ways I do, and after 15 years in an inadequate and small kitchen, I am looking forward to getting this new space. It's going to make a tremendous improvement in our home. I am going from a kitchen with 5 cabinets from 1948 that I have to yank open. The majority of my groceries are currently in my basement. I currently have a banquette in a 5 foot space that is used for meals, homework, etc. So certainly, this new space will be better. Yet, I feel the floor plan could be improved - but how?

I could move the garage door to another spot, but its a small garage (11x17) so keeping the stairs against exterior wall of the garage keeps them tucked in the corner. But I am open to moving the door (and stairs) to improve the overall space. Or I could just have a back door as my architect shows, but the door must be set into the kitchen because I do not have the property on that side to accomodate 3 foot platform required by code and stairs.

I like the kitchen placement on the right beacuse it allows deck to be outside my LR and that's the nicer side of my property. But even this I would change to get a better floor plan.

I could move the DR doorway to the left, but I don't see how that helps.

There are so many issues. We just want to optimize the space and build a well designed extension. We love our neighborhood, so this is our forever home. Thank you so much for helping me.

Dilly - do you want a lot of windows? Is that a requirement for you? It looks like you could have windows on the back and right wall, do you have a nice view in either of these directions? I am no layout master but I will give it a try. Unfortunately, I am out of town for the next 10 days so don't have access to my normal computer. I'll see what I can come up with but I think Lavender is right, you are trying to fit a lot into this space.

OK...I have a question...you want a "family room"...so, why not turn your Living Room into a Family Room? In reality, they're really one in the same. They both have TVs, usually, sofa and/or love seat and/or chairs, fireplace, etc.

Are you someone who has to have a formal living room plus an informal family room? Personally, I'd rather have a family room where the fireplace is plus access to the deck.

I grew up in a house with just a living room and it was a family/living room. Meaning it was used both as a family room for the family (TV, toys, books, etc.) and when we had company...and we were a family of 8. Even in our current house, we originally had both a LR & FR. However, we found that we really didn't use the LR, not even for "company", so now it's a "music room" where my teens practice their instruments and has a desk where my DS does his homework (my DD does her homework on the kitchen peninsula).

You're trying to cram so much into a relatively small space. Think about it, you want: FR + Kitchen + Dining Nook + Pantry + Powder Room + Closet + Mudroom + Study (Desk)...all in a space only 28' x 16'

We will see what we can do, but I want you to be aware that if you want it all, you may very well have to compromise somewhere...and that usually means functionality suffers.

Whew! I think I fit it all in! It's a little tight...be remember I mentioned compromises in my previous post... Trying to fit everything you want into the available space is a challenge.

If you could go another 6 to 9 inches out the back (top of the pic), you could get much better aisles b/w the island and the closet & table. I'd really like to see closer to a 60" aisle there because it will probably be a busy aisle.

I do have to say though, that you have so much seating, do you really need island seating? It seems kind of overkill...Dining Room table, Kitchen table, Love Seat, Island...

If you at least eliminate the seating on the long end, you have a good size aisle as-is and no more is needed. It's the seats at the island that are the problem!

Oh, and I would not reduce the aisle b/w the island and the sink/range run to gain inches elsewhere. That's where the main work will be done in the kitchen and will most likely have 2 or more people working there at one time...which is why, btw, I put in a prep sink. The sink makes it easier for multiple people to work in the kitchen. No, it's probably not strictly needed, but I think it will make it so much nicer/easier to work in the kitchen.

(Don't skimp on seating overhang either to gain inches, they're "phantom inches". Someone sitting at the island will take up the same space whether you put in adequate overhang or not...the human body can only be "squeezed in" so much. What happens instead is that people are uncomfortable sitting there b/c they have to lean farther forward to reach the counter.)

One other thing...I did not put in a desk per-se. Instead, I put in a Message/Command Center. This is a place for mail, calendar, land-line phone, keys, notes, cell phone/camera/iPod charger, etc. Most people today are taking desks out when they remodel, not putting them in. They've discovered that desks are "clutter magnets".

I show the Message Center as a base + upper cabinet, but it could also be a tall cabinet with doors that are split (top/bottom) and that roll/glide inside the cabinet when they open. This keeps the doors out of the way when open but they're available to close off the Center when you need a pristine kitchen (like a party). Sweeby has one, it's her "Organization Closet". Sweeby's description: "Instead of a desk, we have an 'organization closet' --"

It has a stand-up desk-height counter with a wide shallow drawer underneath in which we keep stamps, stapler, tape, paper clips.

Electrical outlet on the wall for phone chargers.

Top shelf for phone books.

Hooks and space beneath for backpacks.

Hooks up top for umbrellas and dog-leashes.

Dry-erase board on one wall, bulletin boards on the other two.

And best of all -- a DOOR that closes!".

The closet is 48" x 30" - interior space. There's also a shallow bench (15") next to the garage door with hooks on the closet wall facing the garage door. That wall, btw, is about 3.5" deep instead of the standard 4.5". It's done to gain an inch or two b/w the closet corner and the counter next to the refrigerator. It's not any less structurally sound, it has the same studs, they're just turned sideways...which also gives you more flexibility for the hooks on the outside.

Finally, the Powder Room...ours is 4'6" x 4'6" and we fit a "comfort height", elongated toilet as well as a 24" W cabinet. There's plenty of room. I made yours 5' x 4'6", so it should be fine. (That toilet isn't to scale, it's just a pic I found.)

Here is a link that might be useful:

Wow! Thanks Buehl. That plan has it all. I know I am trying to cram alot into the space. My LR is essentially a family room now. My family in Europe always have a cozy chair in the kitchen and it's always the
Most sought after seat in the house. I love the walk in pantry, But i would be ok with a tall pantry cabinet. Food for thought...

Dilly- Would two chairs and a table work, rather than a loveseat? That might fit better in Buehl's space...and congrats Buehl for getting everything in the plan!

Also, do you park your car, in the garage? At 11' x 17' is it used more for storage? This may not be possible, but if you could use the front half for storage...you could fit some of your other needs into that space and it would leave you more room for your kitchen/dining/seating spaces. Maybe have the back half of the garage be for mud room, pantry, even powder room area?

If that won't work, maybe make the kitchen area smaller with a work island and keep the seating at the table, as Buehl suggested. With a family of four, that's a LOT of seating, unless you have extended family over, on a regular basis. Also, where's the dog's food and water bowls, bed, etc? Don't forget to give him/her a space, too :)

New Southern Belle, I would like a good amount of windows, along the back wall, overlooking my yard. On the right side of my property (garage side), I only have seven feet and no view.

Lavender Lass - 2 chairs would be great. I do not currently park a car in the garage, but DH wants that option for the future. I would be willing to make the kitchen area smaller, but I am at a loss for a good design. I am still thinking about Buehl's design. Thanks!

Dilly- What about something like this? Just a quick "cut and paste" of Buehl's plan, mainly switching the dining and seating areas and sink and range. If it fit, it would give you more light around the dining area and view of the TV...and bring the range closer to the table, for serving. A tall pantry, by the fridge and prep sink moved to the other side of the island.

The dining table would be by the windows and the seating area is moved closer to the formal dining room. This would be great for a chat with the cook or reading a book/newspaper. Loveseats are nice, but separate chairs are more comfortable for adults and the little ottoman would be great for putting up your feet. I thought this might give you a little more room for the island stools, too. {{gwi:1949149}}From Kitchen plans

Lavender_Lass...while I think the table/sitting area switch would work (although, where would you put the flat-screen TV the OP wants to be able to watch from the sitting area), I don't think the range/DW/sink/refrigerator/pantry configuration would. This configuration will cause a lot of zone-crossing...crossing the Cleanup Zone (and dodging a possibly open DW) every time a trip is needed b/w the Prep Zone and refrigerator/pantry or b/w the Cooking Zone and refrigerator/pantry. It's better to follow the normal kitchen workflow...

Refrigerator and, if possible, Pantry Prep Zone Cooking Zone (with occasional Ref/Pantry Cooking Zone) --> Serving Zone (table/DR/island) --> Cleanup Zone

So, at the very least, I would switch the DW & sink with the range. Plus, that would get the range out of the seating area in general.

Buehl- You know a lot more about kitchen design, than I do. I was just trying to balance the windows :)

Dilly did want the TV by the seating area, but I was wondering if the TV by the banquette might work, especially if the kids are younger. My nieces and nephews like to color or paint, while watching a Disney DVD, so that's something you can't always do in the living room. The chairs might be nice for an adult or two, to talk to the cook, while sitting in the kitchen. Not exactly what Dilly asked for...but I was wondering if it would work, in her space.

Don't sell yourself short Lavender! You know more than you think you do! You've contributed greatly to many a layout thread! B/c my time is so limited lately, I generally don't reply to threads that I think are getting great advice already...and that includes your advice!

Thank you, Buehl :)

The only other thing I can think of...is moving the closet to the dining room wall (where the banquette was) and replacing the island with a table and chairs. Similar to what Home4all6 wanted in her post. Then, the seating area could be in the corner, by the slider, as you have it, in your plan. Probably not as well laid out, but there would be room for a table and six chairs, rather than the banquette.

Here's the link, Dilly, just in case that might work for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to Home4all6 post

Another country...

Can have any window pattern across the back and or insert a back door - will look really BIG if a lotta glass in a repeating pattern.

Plus maybe door from garage where shelves/closet is? That opens the whole garage wall for cabinets.

Lavendar Lass -thanks for giving this so much thought. I do like some of the pics in homeforall6's thread.

Bmorepanic - I like the island turned in that direction and I like the window pattern. What do you have placed on the powder room wall?

I am starting to think I should move the powder room to the garage wall since its the least desireable spot for everything else. Still pondering...Thanks for all the ideas and perspectives.

A loveseat on the powder room wall. Doesn't look like one with all the extra lines! (laughing).

Everyone's perspectives are always interesting, and to have so many choices for the space is amazing.

Dilly, ultimately about the kitchen, but regarding your statement that you wanted the deck off the living room because that's the nicer side of the propery: Decks almost always block the view of the landscape beyond from inside, replacing your view of garden (or valley, marsh, etc.) with a clutter of chair backs and legs, table and legs, railing and posts, BBQ, cushion storage, and of course...decking. No matter how expensive and how well done, at the best of times it will be less attractive than what it's blocking (and in many climates a desolate unappealing wasteland in winter). Besides you'll always have plenty of chair legs, tables, etc., inside to look at. How about instead:

* moving that deck elsewhere, where it has a nice view of the good end of the property from a different orientation,
* taking some of the current deck space *for the kitchen,* and
* having the living room feature a pretty view of your garden while still having good access to a nearby deck? (BTW, balcony-type walkways can connect doors to large open deck areas without destroying views).

Dilly- I've enjoyed your thread...even though it is a challenge! LOL

I'd like to do something similar with my kitchen remodel, to have an eating area and a seating area, in the kitchen. Not a family room, but more of a keeping room n the corner, with a fireplace. It's not always easy, but when you get the right plan, you'll be so glad you kept working on it :)

Dilly- Do you have room for a bay window, overlooking the back yard? This always seems very 'cape cod' to me and would be great for informal dining.

Here's a quick cut and paste of Buehl's plan. The fridge may be a little close to the closet, but that could slide over a few inches. The message center could also be a desk or a pantry. This may not be the best 'kitchen work' layout, but it does give you more room for dining and space for two chairs, in a cozy corner.

Here's a link (click on first picture) to see kind of what I was thinking about...especially the bay window. You would have a bigger table, but same idea :) {{gwi:1949151}}From Kitchen plans

Here is a link that might be useful: Bay window kitchen link

Nice.... but that bay window definitely says banquette / nook to me... hmmm. Maybe. Love that Kitchen in the bay window link. Can I just order one of those? LOL! As if it could be so easy.

Do you want a banquette in the bay window? If you did, you could slide the table and four chairs up a bit, center the slider and probably have room for a desk on the wall, with the TV. This would give you pantry space, where the message center is now. Just another idea :)

I saved that picture for my file, too. Love that bay window! It just seems so cozy and bright, all at the same time.