Annz, thanks for the post. Those certainly look better. But, what I don't understand is that the LED bulbs with the Edison base which would screw into our lamps don't put out any more than 25 watts. All of my lamps use 150-250 watts....And, the older my eyes get, the more wattage I need at those chairs where I read, or in bed.

So, can someone please explain why they don't make lamps that can emit that much light? I'm not an engineer, and will appreciate your help.

Also, like the OP, I do think warmth of light and looks of the bulb are important.

LEDs will probably be our light future but at this point of development LEDs make no sense...at least for people with 50+ year old eyes.

I haven't yet seen an LED, or a CFL bulb for that matter, that doesn't OVER estimate equivalent incandescent lumens output. The BRIGHTEST Edison Screw Base LED bulb shown at the above interesting site provides light equivalent to a 30-40 watt incandescent bulb (remember, they over estimate light output)!!!! Hello???? At $49/bulb, how many of those will you need in your kitchen?

Oh, and do read the important note about LEDs - "a little fan may be required in a close space" to keep it cool. But then I suppose there are little energy saving low wattage cooling fans around somewhere.

The technology WILL come, but for me it's not there now.

What brand and output did you buy?

Concerning LED bulbs, I had a conversation with a distributor recently at a trade show and he told me the higher wattage LEDs generate way more heat than incandescent bulbs, even halogen! Unless scientists figure out a way to dissipate the heat, the LED market will likely remain limited to low wattage bulbs.

At the present, I have found the brightest, nicest color bulbs for standard base fixtures are the halogens now being made by GE and other major brands (see link below). While still incandescent, the halogen and xenon bulbs are supposed to be more efficient and longer lasting than standard incandescent (which are the only incandescent bulbs being phased out), although they do operate at a higher temperature.

At present, online bulb stores (such as 1000bulbs.com & others) carry high-wattage CFLs in warmer color ranges with better color rendering properties (CRI numbers greater than 80). But the sizes are HUGE. Seems like one would need to buy new fixtures for these to be practical.

I'm seeing more new bulb choices every month, so I think we need to be patient and will have better options in coming months and years.

Here is a link that might be useful: GE Edison 150 watt

Thanks for the link native_tx. I am struggling with the CFL's too. I wonder if anyone can post a link that can summarize this bulb stuff. I bought some CFL's for our ceiling cans, installed them in our kitchen and felt like I was in an industrial warehouse. YUCK!!! I was suckered in by the "daylight" description on the packaging. I immediately took them out and decided to put them in the laundry room when those start to blow out. I am all for saving energy and the environment, but I also am wary of the notion that if CFL's break dangerous mercury can be spilled. With young children in the house, this is a little disconcerting. Does anyone have any further info on this?

Thanks for the thread!

I bought at HD an N:Vision soft white (2700K) 150 watt equivalent 3-way, which uses 32 watts. The funny thing is the label says this huge bulb which doesn't fit in my lamps, is a "mini" spiral lamp!

Here is a link that might be useful: N:Vision CFL bulbs

Squirrel: Don't know who you posed the question to, but in our 12 x 14 ft kitchen we use six GE 50-watt halogen floods (PAR30LN) in the perimeter pot lights along two walls, and one 150-watt halogen (thin strip bulb) over the table/eat area. All are dimmable by one double-switched Lutron 300/600 dimmer.

At first I put all daylight CFL bulbs in our new master bathroom, and it was TOO cold. So I took out two of them (the ceiling fixtures) and put in warm whites. The *mix* (2 warm whites, 4 daylight) is just wonderful--really. I try to buy a bit more in terms of effect than the fixtures says it can hold; for instance, if I have a 60-watt socket, I'll buy one that says it gives off the equivalent of 75 or 100 watts--I think that's either 18 or 23? Or whatever it is.

One thing: I wouldn't mix kinds of light in the same fixture, since the color of light they project is very different and you'd get different colors on the shade. I only did it because the fixtures were far apart (ceiling downlights vs. sconces).

I'm surprised that the mini-spirals by In-vision (Home Depot) don't fit in your lamps. All of my lamps, both table and wall sconces, now have them. The only lights in my house that remain (so far) incandescent, are the ceiling fan lights and my 3-way bulbs. Love 3-ways.

Red

p.s. tried the "warm" florescent tubes in my kitchen ceiling fixture and hated them. I mean, hated so much that DH had to remove all 8 and put them in his garage lights...where He now hates them.

Thanks, I was wondering about the horrid ones the OP was using. Don't want to try those! I also have a few around here. Just pulled the hot one from the bathroom -- it says FEIT 25W 60HZ 400?? or something like that. Surely from the HD. I find it is yellow. Didn't like it at first because it was so yellow but I guess I'm used to it now. Had two in there but moved one.

I've had or been around the bright white parking lot ones and I just can't live in that type of lighting. Just not sure they're all like that though.

There was a recent thread, FlyLeft's on LED's I think, that had info on the CFLs in it and who was converting over.

I agree - I hate the CFL bulbs!!! They are toxic - as I understand - in the landfills because of the mercury.
I have alot of recessed lights that currently use short neck halogens on dimmers. I wondered what I would do if these are phased out-thank you native tx for that info.
I jokingly said to DH we needed to start buying and stocking incandescent - maybe thats not so funny anymore.

So far, there's been some great information posted here! Color Rendering Index is a great place to start. Its a measurement of how close to pure white the light output of the bulb is on a scale of 1 to 100, but it can be deceptive. Generally though, the higher the number, the better. Also, color temperature, measured in degrees Kelvin, is critical:

Daylight = 5600K
Traditional Incandescent = 2600K - 3000K
Halogen = 3000K - 3400K

Most people's eyes are accustomed to 2700K or so for home use, so look for a bulb with a high CRI that's also 2700 - 2900K or 3200K if you prefer the look of halogen.

As far as lumen output, watts doesn't equal lumen output, so a low wattage CFL or LED can match the output of a higher wattage incandescent, but as someone said, the equivalent output doesn't necessarily mean equivalent brightness. (The reason for this is dependent on how lumens were measured and the efficiency of the bulb itself).

My advice for CFLs: Go with the warm whites, and avoid the really cheap ones sold at the Big Box stores. I'd recommend going to a lamp/lighting store to look at CFL bulbs and bring along your lamps. The extra money you spend, you'll end up saving in the long run.

Philips makes terrific CFLs, as do GE and Sylvania. As far as the mercury content, yes, it is a risk, but a fairly small one. The bulbs should be disposed of with your hazardous waste, and if there's a real risk of breakage, table lamp in kid's room for example, I'd stick to incandescent.

Also, as said, LEDs aren't quite there. Yet. Heat and brightness are still issues, not to mention cost. But give them a little time, the R & D is moving really, really fast.

Here is a link that might be useful: Color Temperature link

rabbit house, that's what I am thinking about the LEDs--I mean, a few years ago, they were little tiny watch lights and no one gave them a second thought. I used to live in NC near one of the big LED producers and never invested in them...think I should have now.

But I wouldn't put it past that industry to come up with consumer-pleasing LEDs at a mass-affordable cost within a couple of years.

Flyleft,

they'll never be mass-affordable, the production costs of the diodes is too high, but for commercial applications, and some consumer ones, they'll start to make sense very soon. I mean, who wouldn't want a bulb that lasts 10 years??

After we repainted the kitchen walls to white, my DH replaced all of the cans and the chandelier with CFLs. We have halogen UC and range hood lights. I have to admit that they look really good. I am very pleased with the light, which is "warm" per the manufacturer. (I'm too lazy to go look right now -- it's tea time!)

We reduced our wattage to 1/3 of what we are using. Actually, more than that as I no longer have to turn on every kitchen light to see what I'm doing. I can now work with the chandelier over the island or the cans over the prep area.

We also replaced all of the master bathroom lights -- very pleased there, too.

In all of the reading lamps -- replaced. Pleased with the light now but it too more getting used to than the kitchen or bath.

Cameron

We've tried the warm CFLs in vintage lighting that had ivory colored slag glass shades. When we turned the bulbs on, the ivory glass looked pale blue/white. It looked worse than awful and both DH and I hated them. So, we're waiting until the bulb selection gets better. Another thing to keep in mind is the type of and color of your fixtures.

Red,

There are CFL three-ways, I have some. They are made by Lumiram, the same people that made, or at least distribute, Chromalux (full-spectrum) incandescents. Now the light quality of the CFL Lumiram's is nowhere near as great as the Chromaluxes, but it's way better than the standard CFL one finds in HD, etc.

I use them (CFL 3-ways), though I am not entirely satisfied with them, but at least, for now it's what I can find. Thanks to others for the links above. I'll follow up.

Here is a link that might be useful: Source of 3-way CFL bulbs

So Cameron, some time if you remember, take a peek to see who makes your bulbs. I remembered how happy you were with yours. What type of store did you purchase yours from?

I buy most of mine from Lowe's. I haven't had any trouble fitting them in any of my light fixtures. I actually like them, but I did find the light was too yellow in my living room. I ended up buying some bright white CFL bulbs from Home Depot (bright effects, maybe?). The daylight was way too cold, it did make my frosted glass lampshades turn blue. It looked really funky :)

Friends of mine have them in all their ceiling fans. I haven't got quite that brave yet (clear glass shades), but in my ceiling faced, frosted shade chandelier, no one can tell they are the spiral bulbs.

Lisa

Don't use awful new CFL light bulbs, only use nice new CFL light bulbs *grin*.

Color temperature is important, as noted above. And what they label daylight is a morgue shade of blue imho, very cold.

Watch for the cycles on bulbs too - some of the Xmas LED lights are 60 HZ, and they seem really twitchy to me.

It is too bad that most bulbs are not better labeled, you almost have to try them at home to see what works. The energy savings are worth it, and I have found a few warm CFL bulbs that I like.

I like the "daylight" flourescents for my lamps, but that's about it. I won't use them in my recessed fixtures or sconces because for one thing they don't come in a bright enough bulb that is dimmable. I'm only going to be using my recessed lights infrequently so they are getting the "reveal" bulbs by GE. I like the light they put out. It's clean and crisp and doesn't distort colors. Another thing with the flourescents is they tend to make certain paint colors look horrible, especially yellows. I'm having a difficult enough time chosiing paint colors without having to fight with the lighting fixtures too. LOL

Another thing with the flourescents is they tend to make certain paint colors look horrible, especially yellows. I'm having a difficult enough time chosiing paint colors without having to fight with the lighting fixtures too. LOL

Well said brutuses! They made my beautiful and expensive yellow glazed walls, which I adore, look sickening. I'm returning them tomorrow and stocking up on incandescents.

We tried Bright Lights and Eco (?) Bulbs -- however, we ended up with a preference for the Sylvania bulbs in the can lights and moved those other brands upstairs to our sons' bedrooms.

I have to say that when my kitchen walls were SW Celery, DH put in a few CFLs (Bright Lights) and I asked him to remove them. After the SW Glass of Milk white paint went up, he put up all Sylvanias and I like the light (the rest of the kitchen colors are sage, black, goldish tans). I think my chandelier lights are too bright, even though we stepped down to an equivalent of 40watts over the specified 60watts. I will probably drop down to lower wattage at some point.

Cameron

I agree that they can look a bit weird sometimes, but I have switched out all our light bulbs to CFs (except our dining room which is on a dimmer -- and I'm on the lookout for the dimmable CFs). It's a compromise I'm willing to make for the environmental benefits.

As for danger when broken, I googled this left, right and sideways. The most authoritative source (and I don't know now which one it was) says you're in more danger from the broken glass of the bulb than the mercury itself. I think they just advised cleaning it up carefully. No hazmat team intervention required.

Also, the bulbs should never be thrown in the regular trash...take them someplace that accepts them.

Have you ever read the warning label on smoke detectors? They are *radioactive*. If the CF lights don't get us, the smoke detectors will! ;)

So after reading this I'm wondering how green these really are if they have to have a special disposal. Could somebody give me an idea on that vs. the green in saving energy. I don't want to go and buy any of these if it means we have to do special disposal which there is nothing in my near area to take them to and it turns out the disposal is not green at all. DH really wants to add them.

You can see if there is any recycling near you at http://earth911.org/.

I haven't bought from this site yet, but found it when I was looking for a R30 flood light that is brighter than the CFLs I have found locally. The bulbs can be purchased in different color temperatures.

Here is a link that might be useful: Light Vault

Ask nicely at your local hardware store and often they will take them for hazardous waste.

Ten years ago, if someone told me I'd be researching lightbulbs, I would have laughed. That said, I hate wasting money to save money. Like Red, I've consigned several bulbs to the nether regions of my house to complete the Halloween atmosphere.

I happened on this article in Popular Mechanics where they compare brands with pictures. After we finish paying the Christmas bills, I'll begin researching lightbulbs again ... HTH.

Cathy in SWPA

Here is a link that might be useful: Popular Mechanics - Best CFL Bulbs

I'll bet none of you hate them as much as I do. I made the HUGE mistake of putting one in a fixture with a dimmer switch. The dimmer switch burned out. So my son came over to replace the dimmer switch. When he went downstairs and turned the power back on a horrible buzzing noise emitted from the overhead light fixture along with flames and smoke shooting out.

Now I need to hire an electrician. Meanwhile, I'm using a pole lamp as my only source of light in that room.

I'm fine with a CFL in a lamp. It's behind a shade, for heaven's sake.

But what really bothers me is that I like a soft, yellowish warm light in my other fixtures. And what about bulbs for my (many!!!!) chandeliers? I have 4 chandeliers that have no shades on them, but just have the little crystal-waffle chandelier bulbs. I love the light they put out. It's warm and soft. What do I do with those?

To clarify: I know they make chandelier CFL bulbs, but what I *don't* want is that morgue effect that has been mentioned so many times. That creepy, bluish light is just awful to my eye.

I think CFLs should be recycled at the same place you recycle your regular household batteries. They contain mercury, too.

Stumpy

cathy in pa, I have the beginnings of my very own CFL light store inventory!

What I've spent on restocking fees and postage, I could have paid my electric bill!! No just kidding, not that much, but a lot!!

Cathy - Thanks for the link! It looks like the N-Vision Soft White is the highest rated. Has anyone tried those? I wonder if you have to go someplace special to get them.

Laurie

It looks like the N-Vision Soft White is the highest rated. Has anyone tried those? I wonder if you have to go someplace special to get them.

That's what I bought in the 3 way model and am returning them to HD. On low, the light was blue and medium/high made my yellow glazed walls look awful.

So are these truly re-cycled ie re-used for something or are they just hazardous waste?

There are CFL bulbs being made with 'decorative' housings for chandeliers and ceiling fans. I can't tell you if their light output is any good, but they are out there. Also, there are CFLs in PAR housings for recessed downlight cans.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chandelier bulb from Lights of America

For your reading pleasure. . . .:)

Here is a link that might be useful: Unscientific Review of CFL Brands

We're changing over all the incandescent recessed lights in our house (something like 60 of them!) to CFLs. We had a couple of ones from a big box store, but the rest are ones DH bought directly from a distributor his company works with. The big box ones are awful -- a dim, very yellow light. True, if they stay on for a while, they get brighter, but ugh. The other ones are gorgeous -- no difference in light output or color from the old incandescents, they last forever, and put out a LOT less heat.

lnmca, re: "I wonder if anyone can post a link that can summarize this bulb stuff."

Here are a few of the links I have found helpful over these past few months when I've been trying to make bulb and fixture decisions.

One of the best comparisons I've seen of CRI numbers (color rendering index), complete with photos.
CRI numbers

Lots of good info, including comparison photos of color temp (scroll to link in section on How to Choose the Right Light).
Energy Star

Nice fixture choices plus good info in catalog on color temp - choose "Catalogs", "Residential", download catalog, scroll to next to last page.
American Fluorescent

For those ok with looking at charts, scroll down to Sources of Visible Light chart - basically this tells us there is no way to get the balanced light of an incandescent bulb in a fluorescent bulb as fluorescent bulb physics will always cause gaps in their color spectrum, which we see as the orangy warm bulbs and blue cool bulbs with nothing in between.
Orange & blue light

Finally, way more than you ever wanted to know about lighting efficiency of incandescent and halogen bulbs:
Efficiency = saving money

In choosing fluorescents, I think bulb color is a VERY personal decision. I have finally settled on bulbs in the 3500K - 4000K range as the lesser of the evils. The color is a little too blue, but at least my paint colors look good. My rule of thumb is look for CRI greater than 80 for least color distortion. If bulb manufacturers don't publish the color temperature and CRI, I don't buy! I'll be watching the bulb market periodically for new developments.

canobeans: can you find out the brand and model of your recessed bulbs?

Brutuses, I'm laughing! Perhaps, you and I can start our own haunted house -- I certainly won't need any goulish makeup with some of the lights I have. Good grief! Probably the first thing we've bought recently that WILL have a long life.

Laurie, I was looking around apartmenttherapy and one person loved the N-Vision; another was like kawfeeaddict and hated them. There was a designer who weighed in too. My advice is to keep your box:)

Lots of good information from everyone, btw. As an aside, the biggest cost savings I've had so far is stipulating that my kids need to pony up $10 (bills not pennies) to Duquesne Light for every light left burning.

Cathy in SWPA

Thanks for all of the information, everyone. Now I need a few hours to read and think!

I've been gradually replacing all of my incandescent 3-ways with CFL's, and I've been very happy with them (GE BIAX 3-way). We're in the process of building a new house, and I plan to use primarily CFL's for lighting, and NO, we are not in California. Check out this website which has a useful program to find what's available based on your needs. It also includes ratings from users.

Here is a link that might be useful: Find a CFL

Native, thanks so much for those links. They're fantastic!

That really is more and better information than one can find in many supposedly well informed green build journals. I really appreciate it.

There are quite a few CFL sellers online that list the CRI information.

The unfortunate part of this whole thing is that we invested in halogen a few years ago and now in the CFL and with my eye problems, they are almost unbearable, but then live and learn. I do hope someone will come out with an energy-saving bulb that will be "eye" friendly.

coffeehaus: Great link - thanks!

chicoryflower: Yes, many of the online sellers list CRI, but very few of the big box stores do so.

coffeehaus: That is an incredibly helpful link--thank you so much.

I should probably already know this, but I don't.

Will halogens still be allowed under the new legislation? We have halogen bulbs in our ceiling fixtures, and I love them.

Again, we just left a New Year's party where they'd replaced their can light bulbs with CFLs. The pallid, sickly blue light they gave off was *horrible*. Of course, I don't know if these lights were the "good" ones or not. I just know that awful blue light was absolutely the worst.