Oh dear, someone's got the bug ;) Tiles are so--so--delicious and lust-worthy, I swear. They just speak to me. Anything I can make tiles of.

I love the mix of materials you have there!

Now I could give some of the most prominent tips that come to mind first about doing this, but first I want to be more responsible and recommend *heartily* to get a book or two, specifically Sonia King's "Mosaic Techniques and Traditions" and the "Mosaic Encyclopedia", I *think* by Emma Biggs. There are projects in there and general technique instructions that you'll need before you start gluing things down :).

You're right, for instance, to prime it. *Definitely*, since wood is porous. KILZ is a favorite with the folks I know. Another somewhat counterintuitive tip, and this is straight from Sonia, so I take it as gospel: *don't* mosaic the edges! She says it's nothing but a matter of time as to *when* the tiles come off, not a matter of whether, because tables get used so much that the tiles will get jarred off eventually and we'll be upset, so why not make a more robust, if less decorative, edge from the outset? Now we may know exceptions to this, and can see a nicely mosaiced edge in our minds, but if I ever do a table surface I will not tile it, just because she said not to. Her word carries that much weight with me. She says just to cover it with grout instead.

And let's see, what else comes to mind...OH. Those glass tiles--they look like they're colored by foil on the back, vs. the Sicis stained glass tiles--is that true? When you look through the side of them, do they look like clear glass? I'll check at HD, actually, and see what I see. But if they're not through-colored, you don't want to cut them if you can avoid it, and you want to be *very* careful taking them off the backing (is it paper or mesh?), so as not to rip the tile-backing. They should go in a place on the table where they can go in full-size.

I'm not quite clear on the support issue--what metal thing in the middle? Middle of the wood piece? I'm afraid I can't really envision it. But re the mosaic part: the books are a *great* place to start. (Sonia's coming out with a new book soon, co-written with Emma Biggs--it should be an instant classic--great for a present suggestion if you need one in a few months :))

Hi, flyleft. Thanks for all the info about the reference books, I will be checking the internet tonight to order Sonia's book.

The glass tiles aren't on a mesh, I thought they were, only the stones and stone border are. The glass tiles just have a clear tape on them holding them in place. They are colored all the way through. I think the glass tiles were meant to be set into a space as a whole in a square as an accent in a backsplash or something. But I don't want something symetrical, but more irregular. So when I take them off the tape, I can use some spacers if necessary to get an even spacing between them.

The pedastal used to have a concrete birdbath on top and it was set on a metal rod that sticks up from the base to make it more stable. I discussed this with DH this evening and he is saying to get another piece of wood in a smaller diameter than the one I have and place that over the rod and then put the tiled top on top of that. Below is a photo so that you can see the metal rod coming up out of the center.

I now have an idea in my mind of how to attach the tiled top to the base that I think will work and it will be very stable and easily removable so I can vacumn and dust, etc.

As far as the lip or edge - I will have to think on that. Ideally I could get a metal fabricator to make a band of brushed steel or nickel to surround the wood. Or I could just stain the edge of the wood and leave it natural, I shall see what I come up with as I progress. I know mosaic suppliers have bases they can sell you in stock that you can mosaic, but then how would I attach that to the base. I am sure there is a solution to this.

I have the first of a 4 week ceramics workshop next week with a local artist and I will see what resources and ideas she has about my project. I am really excited about this.

Thanks again.

{{gwi:1876050}}

Yes, re the edging on the table! People also use copper flashing for that. It looks beautiful, and would look especially nice with the tile colors you've chosen...just an idea.

Have fun :) I'm sweating bullets through a project I'm doing now--trying to do the face of a cougar, but not just any cougar--Terri Irwin's dear departed rescue cougar Malina--for the Steve Irwin memorial wall -to-be at the Australia Zoo...

I'm having to call up all the positive vibes and baseless self-confidence I can possibly muster. I'm not worthy of doing this (wait, stop that talk right now!) but I'm figuring it's been put in my path, so I will try to do as right by it as I can...it's panic-inducing/an opportunity...

fly, I will include you and your project in my prayers at church tomorrow.

The copper edge sounds awesome!! Love the glass tile!

flyleft, I commend you on your invaluable project and wish you success. I love all wildlife and the cougar is one to be protected for sure. Keep me posted on the progress, DH's sister lives in Australia and I will let her know about the project, as I am sure she would love to go and visit the memorial.

Copper edging is a great idea - thanks for another great idea and for taking time to respond when I know you must be so busy.

threedgrad, thanks for your vote of encouragment too.

Ha--I found a way to put it off the scary part a bit--I have decided I don't have enough shades of brown :) SO, I will order more and do some easy parts for now but I can sure use any and all prayers/energies--I'm in no way as experienced as some of the folks who are doing these (although there are also school kids doing some)--I just want Terri to be able to recognize Malina without anyone telling her that that's who I was doing. It would make my...my...year? My decade? Makes me tear up just thinking about it. The story of Malina is so unbearably sad--Malina was a rescue from the film industry and they were completely bonded when Terri met Steve and decided to move from Oregon to Australia--she tried and tried to get her over, but the authorities wouldn't let Malina come. She ended up...dying of neglect in a shelter in southern Oregon (we found this out from a friend of the family--long story)...ay ay ay I can't handle it...The picture I'm working off (from a book about Steve & Terri) has such a sad expression that I had to substitute other eyes in because I just couldn't let her memory to be dominantly that. I'm hoping to let Malina and Terri be reunited in a way that they couldn't be in life...ay ay ay...so no pressure on this amateur, no...

springville, the Memorial Wall is going to be a phenomenal thing. There are lots of mosaicists in Australia/NZ, for some reason--it's a very big thing there--and one of them is collecting these from folks all over the world and then will incorporate them into probably two full walls of a building at the Zoo...her work (and the work of her helpers) will be epic in its own right, just piecing all of them together to make some sort of sense. It gives us one more reason to go to OZ/NZ, as if I needed another (two words: Crowded House :)).

Flyleft... another Crowded house fan here.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwyd00MQoSA

I've done a lot of mosaic stuff in the past and one thing I learned not to do is to use wood or a wood product like MDF as a base. Even if you prime it, it will eventually expand and contract from humidity changes and that will cause the grout to crack and crumble.

Grout and tile are inflexible so you should choose a substrate that is just as inflexible. I use cement backerboard. You could easily cut a round of it to fit your wood top and just attach with a few screws. It doesn't make such a hot top just by itself because it's thin and kind of brittle and would probably crack if someone leaned on it in the wrong way!

I completely agree with not tiling the edges. I have done it and they ALWAYS come off. I have several pieces that have been sitting around for years waiting for me to reattach edge bits. Bleh!

OT: weelass! OH yeah, have the DVD :). I see you're from Australia--were you *there* in '96? It must have been...just the concert of a lifetime. Have you seen them this fall or maybe at Live Earth? I saw them twice here in the States this summer (including hanging out and chatting afterwards with everyone in Portland, OR, so long that *we* were the ones that ended up walking away--I felt bad for them, having a long drive to Canada ahead--maybe that's why they didn't want to get in the bus! Have a pic with Nick and my DD that is the best my face has come out in years...wonder why :) -- and I took a pic of a friend and Neil, but didn't ask for one myself--**smacking self upside head**) My dream is to see them in Melbourne one day--as fabulous an experience as a CH concert is, I imagine it's qualitatively different in Australia. Or I'd like to see them in Auckland (in honor of Neil, and because I want to visit Sharondelier :) -- Sharon has some beautiful mosaic busts on her website, to take it back ON topic for a second :)). If you *really* like them, have you checked out frenzforum.com? (as in frenz of the enz ;))...only for the truly obsessed :)

And back to mosaics: spanky, you make a good point--I wasn't going to address the wood base idea, since I know lots of folks have used it successfully, without warping etc., and these are people who are more experienced than I am. That said, if *I* were doing a tabletop, I'd put a second surface on top (even maybe WEDIboard--or plexiglass screwed down with slightly countersunk screws but not glued would be fine too) so as to separate the mosaics from the movement of the wood. The plexiglass feels sturdier to me as a surface in this particular situation than hardibacker, as it's not a structural surface...but that's just a gut feeling..

springville, if you get some plexiglass cut (although hardibacker is less expensive), you can mosaic with Lexel as your adhesive and it will have enough spring to accomodate any flexing (which there shouldn't be too much of, if you get a thick enough piece, since the tabletop isn't all that big). Actually, Lexel would be a good adhesive to consider anyway, for the same reason: it accomodates the flexing and keeps on holding. It's an improved silicone-like (but not silicone) adhesive. Ace carries it; btw they also carry their own Lexel-imitation, right next to it, and significantly less expensive.

Off to put on Time On Earth and cut glass :)

flyleft and spanky md, thanks for all your information and advice. Well, I had thought about backerboard too. Sadly I had several sheets left over from redoing my bathrooms and donated it to a group of artists doing a mosaic wall in town (good cause). I can get a half sheet of it and cut it. The wood is really heavy, so if I add the backerboard to it and then the tile, it is going to be really heavy. Not as heavy as the base though but heavy still and all.

Plexiglass, I never would have thought of that - it wouldn't be as heavy. Lexel - I will have to check into that too.

I started taking the tiles and stones off the backing on the kitchen counter and playing around -

- - - - - - - please don't laugh - - - - - - -

this is just a first attempt and not set in "stone" yet. I think it's too busy and I would like it better with just two different materials, maybe one row of stones in the middle and the rest glass tile. But it is really fun playing around with the tiles and stones.

If I get a dry run I like, can I put tape over the top to hold them all together, then flip the whole thing over, and put some sticky mesh on the bottom side and then place the sticky mesh side down on the backerboard or plexiglass into a coating of lexel and not have to reset every piece? Am I making myself clear. Kind of like the sticky mesh the little stones come on in the first place - is there such a thing I can purchase or make?

I think I could have done a better job if I had something to cut the glass with - I do have a tile cutting saw - but it is too big to work with such little pieces. Looking at it in a photo - I don't like it - I will redo it tomorrow. I want it to be more stylized, but have some movement to it. I also think I need littler pieces to fill in some of the odd shaped gaps. And I think the glass tile would be better all one color together - I will probably have to order some - because these sheets come multi - and I would have to get a ton of them to do what I want.

Anyway, here is what I did with what I had on hand.

{{gwi:1876051}}

Oh my goodness--I LOVE it! If you want something to cut glass with, what's recommended (and what I've been using all day--OY what a neck cramp, but that's because I'm dealing with freakin' *shards*...but I digress--it's such a good tool that I can control it to cut pieces about 1/32" wide [imagine the thin line of black at a cougar's mouth--I can't do it with grout because I won't be grouting it--I have to make that thin, thin line)is something called Leponitts wheeled glass cutters. There are other wheeled glass cutters, but for some reason these are specifically recommended by name.

Here is a link that might be useful: good price someone here on g'web posted

springville, your piece is very nice! Keep in mind that the grout will change the look of it a lot. Part of what makes it look choppier are all the gaps. Filling them in will smooth out the flow of the design and improve it a lot. I am always delightedly shocked at how much better a piece looks when grouted.

There IS a way to do what you want as far as preserving your layout. The traditional way is to spread wallpaper paste onto the top surface of the tile, then cover it with brown kraft paper. Let dry, flip over, cover substrate with mastic or mortar, then place the sheet of tile onto that. Or maybe you spread the kraft paper with paste and lay it onto the tile, I forget. I've never done it, just read about it.

I've also read about using clear Contac paper. I think I actually tried this but I don't remember the specifics. It was 10 years ago!

Flyleft, the adhesive isn't so much the problem when tiling onto wood. It's the grout. It's pretty much just cement and it will crack rather than give even a smidge. The wood base doesn't even have to get to the point of warping---just a tiny bit of expansion will crumble the grout. I may have had worse luck with it here in Maryland's humid summers and dry winters; could be that people in more humidity-stable areas make it work. I dunno, I just know that it's frustrating to see grout crumble a year later on a nice piece!

If you want to read more about double reverse method (which is the method spanky's talking about), it's in Emma Bigg's book. You lay your design out, cover them with a paper, turn the paper over (carefully, with support on the back, once the adhesive's dry), and pre-grout from the inside out, as it were, before you adhere it back to the tabletop. I haven't had coffee yet, so I will tell you that the book is much clearer in its instructions :), and even shows copper flashing around the edge as a finish. This is esp. good for tabletops, since you can address unevennesses in height from the back and help make the tabletop more level, btw.

And re the adhesive: agreed, spanky--I was thinking of it more for the plexiglass. And if someone *really* wants tough grout, there's always epoxy grout. Several mosaicists I know of use *only* spectralock. On a smaller tabletop it might not be so hard to work with (if you can get a smaller amount), and it would have much better moisture resistance--won't need sealing, etc.

See, I said I hadn't had coffee--I just reread my post and it should read Emma *Biggs's* book.

flyleft and spank md, thanks for all the information about mosaic supplies and hints on what to do, you both have given me. I really appreciate it.

flyleft, I am going to go to the bookstore today to see if either of those books you recommended is available, if not, I will order them on the internet. I think they both would be a good investment because I can see myself doing more mosaicing. And I still have the two bowls to do too.

spanky md, you are right about the tile looking much better after it is grouted. Thank you for reminding me about that. I remember when we did our master bathroom, we had some stuff called redgard painted on the backerboard as added protection from water and when the tile was up without the grout - it looked ugly because you could see that red coming through. Once it was all grouted it looked beautiful. Heh, I might use some of that redgard stuff on the top of the wood - it supposedly seals out moisture. I think I still have a little bit left.

I found this site, linked below, last night and in the mosaic questions section, they talk about the fiberglass mesh technique being used for walls and when you don't want to hand lay each piece again. They also talk about the contact paper method - which I would probably use in this application, because I laid the tile with the good side facing up. The back of the stones still have some of the fiberglass mesh on them from when I peeled the stones off of the backing.

The guy on this site also says wood is ok for interior use. I do know one problem with cracking grout can be if it is mixed too thin or too much water is added. When we redid our two bathrooms and the slate floor the grout mix was very thick according to the directions on the bag and none of that has cracked. Of course, the bathroom is done on backerboard and the slate is on a concrete floor - so no movement there.

The previous tile in the guest bath was laid on linoleum and one piece near the door had cracked grout - I don't think the linoleum was glued enough underneath that section - or it got water underneath it.

I will probably seal this piece since moisture from a drink placed on the table could soak into the grout.

For this project, I think I may just use the wood and see how that goes. I will still need to find the copper to put on the wood. I'll check out the hardware store in town to see if they have some copper sheeting.

As usual I have entered into another project that is going to be more time consuming than I realized. But definitely something that will be fun and creative. I can see there is a lot involved with mosaicing and lots of different products that can be used for different applications.

Thanks again to both of you, I will definitely post my completed piece, but it may take me a while since I want to do some more research and I have some other pressing projects that have come up unexpectedly.

Here is a link that might be useful: See - Mosaic Questions - Category

You may find that it's so much fun it's almost a guilty pleasure, as it is for me. When I enjoy something this much I start feeling bad that I'm not doing something I enjoy less (I was raised Presbyterian LOL). I can justify spending time on this project as it's for a good cause :)

Be sure to seal the wood with several coats of primer or polyu or something before you start. That will stabilize it as much as possible against humidity changes.

I forgot to add before---get a tile nipper if you don't have one! They are great for making minor shaping adjustments and also for cutting tile that is too small to go in the snap-cutter or wet saw. The trick to using tile nippers is to just bite into a tiny bit of the tile. If you bite too much, it will take a lot more effort to snap it and your hand and arm will give out a lot sooner. (This I know from painful experience!)

spanky md, thanks about the tile nippers. I'll have to pick some up. I think all of these pieces are too small for the wet saw - at least for the one I have - it is for larger tile - which we used for the two bathroom remodels and the living room slate floor. I was planning on sealing the wood with some kilz I have in the garage cabinet.

Probably won't be able to start on this till next week some time - another pressing matter, with our property line, a surveyor, and us putting up a new fence, has come up that takes precedence.

Thanks again.