Would love to see posts on this because we are doing this too. Our cabinet frames are now built and there is no going back! We made the change to get a better layout within the existing space. I don't use a big oven very much -- I use a Breville counter top convection oven for nearly all the roasting/baking/broiling and even toasting. I will have a Miele Speed oven as well. I'm getting the full range whereas I really think I could be perfectly happy with just a rangetop -- just like putting a bathtub as well as a shower into the master bath -- rarely use the tub but you cannot have a house without one bathtub and one full size oven.

I almost did the same thing, until I visited my sister for a week, and did some cooking and baking on her range. I'm 58, and in good shape, but changed my mind quick when taking a roast out of the oven. This is my forever kitchen, so changed my plans back to a cooktop and wall oven.

Even tho I don't use the oven often, think summer, I could not or would not like bending down to peek, baste, remove, put, no, no, no. But if I had all the other accessible ovens, counter, mw, speed, toaster, convection, it would not be that difficult. Even tho I have a small kitchen, wall ovens are a must for me. And yes, I must have 2. And I am way way older.

My daughter-in-law, excellent cook, Chinese, rarely uses her ovens. Almost the same house as mine, just around the corner. Cooktop cook, she.

It's tough and personal.

I am 49, and up until this spring have only cooked on ranges my entire life. I had full intentions of sticking with a range until I fell in love with induction and could not find a range that had the features I wanted.

But now that I have my wall ovens separate from my cooktop, I don't think I ever want to go back. I love this so much!

I do most of my cooking/baking on the weekends, so it's normal that I may have a pie in one oven, bread in the other, one pot of stew simmering on a burner while I'm browning meat for a casserole to pop in the oven when the pie gets done.

All of the ranges I have experience with have given off a lot more heat than my double wall oven gives off. I love not having to stand in front of a hot oven while I'm using the cooktop. If you rarely bake and cook at the same time, this probably would not matter.

Age was less of an issue for me than the fact that I have a bad neck and arm/shoulder issues resulting from it. The bending over and crooking my neck is just a no-go for me. I am also tall and tried my parents' oven mounted under the counter -- it seemed really low for me. Now, if you would only use the top rack or a smaller countertop or other second oven on a daily basis, then using the bottom rack a couple of times a year for turkey or extra large items shouldn't be so bad -- and you are likely to have help if you need it for lifting at those times.

If you have that now, I'm not sure how it would make working with the existing footprint easier. It is a way to gain counter space, if that is an issue, but storage space is usually just a swap of one for another.

Maybe you could post a drawing of your layout and look for some other suggestions. I kept my double ovens and cooktop and got a prep sink, larger fridge space, a broom closet and better workspace. What I gave up was a corner step-in pantry in exchange for a 24" pantry with rollouts and a 12" pullout tower. Made the kitchen look bigger too. Maybe there is a better solution hiding in your kitchen.

I had a brief love affair with French ranges when I was first planning my kitchen. I couldn't do the ovens. I've mostly had wall ovens and all of them at optimal height (i.e., not stacked). I couldn't do it. My cousin has a beautiful new 36" range (American style). Great oven. Couldn't do it.

I've had a range. Once. Avoided using the oven. Couldn't go back.

Ranges make a lot of sense in many ways, but "built-ins", as they used to be called, got popular for more reasons than style.

I moved from cooktop to range, and I *would* do it again. I guess it depends on how you cook. I haven't noticed the ovens giving off too much heat while I'm standing there (plus, most months of the year, I would appreciate that). Bending down hasn't been the issue I feared.

The only thing I don't like is the racks; I would like to buy glide racks, and will eventually do so. And I haven't cleaned it yet, that probably will suck.

I am moving from cooktop to range right now so I don't know whether it will be an problem or the best thing I have ever done.

I just got a DCS gas range. It's not even hooked up yet, but just in case I didn't like the gas oven, I got a DCS electric wall oven too.

I really wanted the look of the range but was not sure about cooking in a gas oven. I grew up using a gas range but it's been 20 years since I have used one.

I can also see where bending down is an issue. It didn't really dawn on me how low the range oven was until I got it in my kitchen. Makes me glad I got the wall oven just in case.

I have a range and a wall oven and will be putting the same in my new home. I have a bad back and shoulder, but have never had a problem with it. I cook and bake a lot and just have never seen it as an issue.

I used to have double wall ovens and a cook top.
It was fine except my kitchen is small and I needed the
space.

Taking out the double wall ovens gave me much needed
counter space. No regrets I would do it again in a heart beat.

I have had ranges all my life and am currently in the middle of a remodel that will include a cooktop and double ovens. This involved reconfiguring the kitchen a little, but leaves me with the same counterspace that I had before. In our area, for resale purposes, you will always do better with separate wall ovens, no matter how fancy your stove. But at the end of the day, what really controlled my decision was that I am not getting any younger, and my back just can't take stooping over a hot oven anymore.

I'm glad to see posts from people who are going from separate cooktop/wall ovens to a range. When I came to the conclusion that this would be the best layout for me I felt so much nagging doubt, like this must be wrong, this is like going backward. And this has been compounded by the decision to go from an electric oven to an all gas range. Seriously felt like it might be a big step backward. But I really do think that it can make sense depending on how you cook.

If you are making larger things in your main oven on a frequent basis, then it probably makes sense to optimize the placement of your largest oven, which might mean a wall oven is a top priority.

But if you are using your large oven infrequently, say, just for holidays or entertaining or baking once a month, and can have your daily needs fully satisfied by a speed oven or a countertop oven, then having a range (and may-be getting some extra counter space) could be the best choice.

Although I don't like bending to get big heavy stuff out of the oven, I so rarely cook any big heavy stuff that it is hardly a concern. But I use the counters every day and the look of the range will fit with the 1920's house and restored kitchen.

I have always used ranges, so keeping a range (vs switching to a rangetop or cooktop and wall oven(s) when we reno'd the kitchen) wasn't a big deal. It worked out better for us space-wise, and as I wanted to stick with a gas oven, it was kind of a no-brainer.

I have and always had a range and wouldn't have it any other way. I love having the broiler under the vent hood. If one has the room I think the ideal is a range, AG and one wall oven.

In my last house, we lived with the double wall ovens for a few years before the remodel. Being a bit over five feet tall, I always felt I was too short to reach in to the ovens without dragging various body parts over the open door. I happily went back to a range and have the same range in my new house/kitchen. (DCS)

Now, the bending/getting older argument is a good one. In the winter, I routinely cook gargantuan braises in my gargantuan Le Creuset. I can barely drag that thing around empty. When it's full of potroast, it seems easier to me to lift it up onto the range than to pull it out from what would be well over waist height in my old double ovens. I don't look at wall ovens much, so maybe they are being installed at more user friendly heights as plllog suggests.

I suppose if i ever had a big kitchen, I could do some kind of motion study, figure out the optimal height for my shortness, situate both wall ovens side by side and get the ones where the door swings open to the side. (Gaggenau or something uber-expensive, right?) I do sometimes wish I had an extra oven when I am entertaining or cooking ahead. My range does cough out an awful lot of heat when the oven is on and I am working stove-top. Oh well...maybe I need one of those countertop convection models after all.

Ohmygosh. I thought this would be about pros and cons of cleaning the range top, not bending. Surely not all the people worrying about lifting pans out of an undercounter oven are in their 80s or seriously debilitated from some joint problem? Debility may well be on its way, though.

This is absolutely a kitchen design issue.

Try this picture: My neighbor has had mild arthritis for a while, pain almost always controlled with aspirin and Tylenol, but it's been a reason for becoming more and more sedentary. She dislikes walking upstairs these days because it wears her out; "fortunately," their bedroom's on the main floor and she seldom has to. I know she never exercises, but I was surprised the other week to see her have difficulty getting out of her armchair. Took two tries, successful after she first boosted herself to the edge. Her progressively more crippled lifestyle isn't from the arthritis, it's from deconditioning, facilitated by her energetic husband who does all the trotting around for them. Of course, she has lots of back pain, and I strongly doubt she can bend much, though wouldn't know. She's somewhere in her early 60s and has NO significant health problems.

For those to whom this applies, I strongly recommend getting a wall oven only for positive reasons--NOT in an unintentional but ongoing plan to remove as much healthy exercise from your day as possible. Bending is good. Being able to lift from below safely is good.

"Worried about...?" Back strengthening and stretching exercises worked wonders for me after I burst a disk lifting; no more back pain, no more back injuries from weak muscles for close to 20 years.

BTW, I'm in my mid 50s and put my undercounter oven to the side of the cooktop in my new kitchen so I don't stand in front of it. It's right there where I work and nice and easy for basting and viewing. I'm very pleased with it and would do it again for sure, although I would like a wall oven too if I had room for it. When the day comes I have problems, which it will--the signs are in my increasingly bad spine posture, I'll have the incentive to do those exercises in front of the TV again for a while.

Rosie,

I'm with you on the conditioning. When people admire me for using my "too heavy to wash" Le Creuset, I also think if it's too heavy for them to wash (barring arthritis or other debilitating condition) then they're the exact people who could benefit from it.

OTOH, there are a lot of small infirmities that come with age that can make lifting a hot, heavy pot from a low oven, especially when one is rushed or distracted, a dangerous and painful endeavor. If it doesn't bother you, it doesn't bother you, but if it's a problem, I'd suggest using other forms of housework and activity for conditioning, than something that is so potentially dangerous. My new oven is only a little low (a compromise from optimum caused by the necessary layout) and I got burned by sloshing turkey juice when I was trying to lift the gigantabird out a couple of months ago, and I have a strong back and arms.

Rather, tell them not to be weenies about lifting the KitchenAid out of the lower cabinet if you like. Or tell them to fetch and carry items between storeys one at a time to have the excuse to run up and down the stairs. But if someone feels she lacks the strength or ability to bend to tend an oven, please believe her, and let her safeguard herself rather than shaming her into a dangerous situation.

If low works for you great. Some people do low and hate high. They prefer lower storage and don't want uppers. Other people are happy stretching and climbing, but aren't as happy with low. There are all kinds of ways of accomodating both groups with the appliances and designs currently available. To each her own.

BTW, when I had ranges I was very young and very fit (now I'm not so young and not so fit, but still strong). I also hated bending for the oven. Hated. Didn't use it because I hated it.

You make a really good point, Pllog, that should be considered by people who suspect they may spend their elderly years in this kitchen. OTOH, when wall ovens can't be placed right by the work counter, carrying extremely hot pots across the kitchen would also be problematic. Really, though, I was just arguing against the usual assumption by people of all ages that it's good to design bending and stooping right out of their lives wherever possible. If you don't do it at home, where do you do it?

Regarding genuine, not pre-induced old age, I do suspect that's far down the road for most here. The average person on this forum, who didn't smoke for decades and is not seriously diabetic or obese, will live well into his or her 90s, having thwarted the death from infancy, war service, etc., that also pull the averages down. People in their 40s and 50s NEED to be planning for another 30+ years of the same sort of active living they enjoy now, plus hide-and-seek with the greats and great-greats, and only then a short comfy old age rocking away--hopefully still in their own homes.

Another plus for ranges: Getting to pull them out and clean under. :)

Another plus for built-ins: There's no under to clean! :)

You're right, a wall oven with no landing space, like they often show in integrated European kitchens, is even worse! And I'm with you on the rest.

Another reason to like my white floor. Plenty of excuse to bend down for spot cleaning. :)

I've had both, currently have cooktop/wall oven, and would hate to go back to the range. As I reflect upon why, however, I think it's less about the appliances per se (e.g., the oven height difference that people have already mentioned) than it is about issues related to layout. I love having cabinets directly under my cooktop, with easy access to pots and pans, cooking utensils, spices, etc. And I have nice landing space right next to and across from my wall ovens. If I didn't have those things, I'd probably be dreaming of my old range.

So I think it often comes down to how things happen to fit in a particular kitchen--some layouts are better suited to ranges, and some to cooktops/wall ovens--and how those things interact with individual preferences and cooking patterns.

As for the aging in place argument, I think it's nice to consider our likely needs a few years down the road. In practice, though, it may be difficult to know what those needs will be. My mother, for example, is strong as an ox and quite healthy for her age, but she's petite and has arthritis in her shoulders. Bending? No problem. Reaching is another story. She can lift a huge turkey from her range oven with ease, but struggles with even a light cake pan in my upper wall oven. And she hardly uses her upper cabinets anymore. Go figure.

I recently went from wall ovens to range. Being one of the people that does have Rheumatoid Arthritis, I did worry about how I would handle the lifting & bending. (& oh how I wish I could just take some Tylenol & be on my way). Honestly, I don't notice any difference. Lifting is lifting, whether from the wall oven or the range. I do have to bend more, but it hasn't been a problem yet. Moving my joints is actually good exercise for me. Just as with my wall ovens, if its something too heavy, I ask for help. I did buy a range with glide racks & I think that helps me a lot.

I love having my range & I especially love the added counter space I now have. No regrets...

I went from separate cooktop/oven to a 36" AG range and I love it! Mind you, my old oven was an under-counter one. My kitchen isn't tiny, but not so big that I would sacrifice counter space for wall oven(s). Where I live, ranges have always been the norm for the vast majority of the population because they can be cheap and efficient in small/med sized kitchens. My mom lived to be 94 and never complained about bending over, and she baked until her last 6 months.

I also agree with whoever said it is primarily a kitchen design issue. Any realtor who makes a blanket statements that separate appliances are more desirable likely doesn't cook. Most of us here would rather have a well laid out, functional kitchen, regardless of what the neighbours have.

I'm struggling with this one myself. I had a wall oven and cooktop in my last home and loved loved it. Just a single oven placed at optimal height for me. I've always been amazed at people who must have 2 ovens but then I never had kids and cook for two 99% of the time. I'm surprised that no one posting on this thread has mentioned the significant difference in the price of buying an all-in-one unit range vs. a cooktop plus a wall oven. Some of the new ranges have ovens that are placed so low I was stunned had how much your had to bend to use them. The stove I have now (pre-remodel)has a "warming drawer" just above the floor. Like I'm going to bend down to the floor to keep a dinner plate warm down there. I also own a Cuisnart bake/convection/toaster unit sitting on my counter that I use all the time. I only use my range oven for turkey, pizza, cookies, lasagna....stuff like that. It's a terrific small appliance.

I've always had double wall ovens with a separate cooktop for our family of 6. Now the kids are all grown/gone, (except when they come home to visit with spouses/grands), and we're remodeling. Hubby and I are replacing 27" double wall ovens with 24" steam oven and a 24" speed/convection/micro oven combo that people tell me will become my main oven for the 2 of us. We're getting a seaprate 30" wall convection oven, but instead of stacking all 3 ovens and taking up more wall space, we're going to place the 30" oven beneath the induction cooktop (all Miele) and save counterspace. I hope I won't regret this.

We have a smaller, second kitchen in the basement with a range, should I need more oven space during family gatherings, but I'm hoping I really learn to use my new appliances and don't find myself using the big oven all that much for just the 2 of us.

We're also adding a Dacor warming drawer. This is my dream kitchen and I hope I'm making the right choices.

Jeanie

I've has wall ovens almost all my life. My DM had one of those French door Frigidaire wall ovens back in the late 50's, I loved that oven. I wish someone would make that style now...
Anyway, in my new kitchen I will have a speed cook and a 30" convection in the wall and across a 36" aisle from my island, plenty of landing space. I was against having a warming drawer until recently. Then I saw one installed under an induction cook top like we are getting. So I decided to go with a WD installed that way. Made sense for how you use a WD. I am hoping to cook Thanksgiving dinner in the new kitchen...fingers crossed.