Marthavila, I haven't followed your threads but, judging by the above posts (& Mr. Teixiera's), you've shown great restraint in your critism of this company. The problem - as I see it - goes back to the him changing his mind about honoring his company's quote when he should have just "grown a pair" & told the truth upfront about a potential fabricator conflict (real or imagined - why didn't his sales people realize there might be a problem?). Or, ideally, made an arrangement with the other fabricator to calm the waters & then proceded with your job.

The best defense is a good offense & that seems to be the gist of Mr. Teixiera's posts. Some people's ego will never let them apologize or except blame, especially if it's their fault to begin with. I'm not in the market for soapstone but I'll definitely remember this thread if any friends ask for a reference.

BTW, a contractor once commented to me that I ask a lot of questions. He said it didn't bother him but a lot of contractors are intimidated because they either don't know the answers or they do shoddy work. Many contractors later, I think he was right.

I rarely ever get involed in these threads, but I've been on this forum for quite a while and I feel the need to defend Martha. She has EVERY right to voice her opinion negative or otherwise. That is one of the many great things this forum has to offer. How many people in real life do you actually know who bought soapstone for their new kitchen? Me, a total of zero. Her opinion of M. Teixiera is what it is and she should not be bullied out of that opinion. It's ONE opinion out of many why should she have been singled out? I've had poor experiences with some companies that others have had wonderful experiences and vise-versa. She had a bad experience and therefore cannot recommend them. I think that is perfectly reasonable!

I also believe it's wonderful to have professionals contribute to the forum, but I don't believe bashing members of the forum for their opinions is contributing. Additionally, this is not the first time this has happened on this forum.

Looks like some posts have been removed as of today.

Not many of us have had absolutely smooth sailing in our remodels. I had a nightmare granite installation where the granite broke and the installers were creeps. But due to my level-headedness during the fiasco, and the fairness of the granite company honcho, everything turned out okay in the end.

I could not refer these guys to others in clear conscience, and he has not asked me to be a referral. But I know that he has had many happy customers in the greater Los Angeles area whose installations were not the fiascoes that mine was.

So I could relate the entire harrowing ordeal here and blast the guys, and maybe start a he-said/she-said scenario, or as I chose to do, chalk it up to "shmidt happens" and move on. I also had a fight with IKEA delivery, but in no way would I say that that nastiness would deter me from recommending IKEA cabs.

I appreciate hearing first-hand experiences with different companies here, but it's always a tough judgement call with the kind of subjective experience marthavila had where she cannot know what the company's motives were and why they behaved as they did.

It's not like, "my expensive fixture broke after 2 months", or "I got an incomplete delivery from XYZ", or "my cabs were not what I ordered and here's why" -- we will never know some of the whats and whys in this case because it's so subjective.

Marthavila, I'm sorry that this happened to you. I appreciate your candor in sharing your experience. I just wanted to add that it is difficult to determine whether your experience should deter someone else from using this company or not.

One thing though - most credit card companies explicitly do not allow you to charge a surcharge to customers for using their cards. So maybe this company got scared that you would report this. Again - we'll never know.

I remember the last time Roger showed up as soon as there was a post against his company. Fori- LOL- it's a lot-a-bit creepy!

It's called "Google Alert" and it just emails you when the topic you have set the alert for shows up on the net. Not creepy at all - it's the Internet equivalent of those clipping services who were paid to clip newspaper articles about companies.

A kitchen remodel is a high stress, expensive undertaking at the best of times, when there are no 'dream kitchen" overtones to it. Add in TKO dreaming, blend with customers unaccustomed to the way construction works, unaccustomed to project planning and contract writing, and minor problems and botched communications can get blown up into major kerfuffles.

What I see is:

1 - MTex would not give the OP the contact information for previous customers so she could check with them herself. I praise MTex for defending their customer's privacy. At that point, they had no clue who this person was and for all they know, she would knock on the door and ask to inspect the workmanship. My BIL has had that experience, which is when he stopped giving out customer contact info.

2 - MTex would not drop the credit card surcharge of 2%.

Well, credit card companies CHARGE the vendor a fee that is a % of the amount - 4% is the usual but some are higher. It's a bit more palatable to give a discount for cash so the credit card customers don't hear the Cha_ching, but MTex was probably already eating half the fee the credit card company "imposed" on them.

3 - MTex withdrew the quote ... there seems to have been a question of who had first claim to the customer and whether or not she was working with a fabricator or buying directly to hire her own fabricator.

Whatever the reason, this customer had become more trouble to MTex than she was worth.

I've withdrawn quotes myself when I see that a customer is going to be too much hassle and tie up too many resources. It's not the size of the job as much as it is the profitability of the job. A tiny job that goes smoothly is fabulous. A small job that takes a lot of hand-holding, explaining, and communication is eating up my profit margin - you are allowed to be a major PITA only if the job is really, really big.

Live in another country and have zero interest in soapstone but I still appreciate the OP sharing her experience and her perceptions of that experience. I find the posts criticizing the OP odd and unnecessary: she's offering her experience and opinion if you have a different one offer away but don't criticize hers. I am not the most congenial member of this Forum and I am certain I have offered an opinion when it wasn't solicited (my bad) but the arm chair analysis and judgement of the situation and the poster seems unwarranted.

I had a vendor approach a client so I could see their work - their are lots of ways to make satisfied customers available to prospective clients without violating the clients privacy. Hold the applause.

I wouldn't rule out using a business because of a bad review, especially one which also mentions how great many aspects of the business are (like the selection and quality of employees Martha first worked with). I'd be willing to give 'em a try and hope it was a fluke. Because these things do happen.

What I do consider reason to avoid a company is when the company speaks poorly about a customer, especially one who was (initially) very discreet about her complaints.

Martha tried to be the bigger person by not outright badmouthing the company. She delicately said she'd had some issues and if you really wanted to know, she'd discuss it privately. That wouldn't have been terrible for the company because emails don't come up on a Google search. The dirt was limited. That's a rather restrained way to pan a company, and not likely to lose much business. She wasn't even being mean or vengeful like I would have been. :) But she also felt it would be remiss to let silence be mistaken for a recommendation because generally we help out here on this forum.

I don't know what happened with Martha's quote. Maybe she's just terrible in person. Whatever. The thing is, she was incredibly delicate in her complaints and then some supplier came in and got nasty. Soooooo, if I get my rock from him and have an issue, and mention it here, it might be me. It's poor business to do that. Defend yourself politely, or not at all. Cuz you might look bad and lose potential customers, more than if you'd just let it go or said "oops".

Im in Florida where there was a big building boom and people spending money like it grew on trees, then there was the fall. My husband and I had small jobs over those boom years, things like electric and plumbing other things we did ourselves. Very often we could not get people to return phone calls because the jobs were small. Now many of these people are going out of business. It would be nice maybe if in a perfect world businesses could pick and chose but when things get tough it can bite you if you had been running your business with that attitude. With the internet and review sites it can really bite you.
Im not really picking a side per say, its just that people do have the right to comment on a bad experience and shouldnt be bullied because of it. I really find it outrageous that the person spending money is not allowed to ask too many questions or they are considered a painwhat the heck??? I think business owners better get used to the idea that more and more women are spending money and making the decisions, and at times it is a learning experience. I have been lucky in that I am naturally flirtatious and can get around the egos usually and manage to get my questions answered, but I have to say it is exhausting at times.
I guess I feel so strongly about this topic because even though Im married to a wonderful man most of all the footwork on remodeling projects is up to me. My husband can walk into a place as dumb as a brick on a subject and he gets all sorts of help. Me as a woman has to spend countless hours learning about the subject just to walk into a place and get talked to like the village idiot. Then I have to go into this whole routine of stroking their egos to get my way and I am spending the MONEY to keep those business owners in a life style that they have picked, I'm helping pay their bills.

My better sense tells me I should stay out of this but here I go anyway: jterrilynn, I hope Florida isn't representative of the whole country if you have to be flirtatious and stroke egos to get decent service. Certainly that's not the norm out here in Colorado as far as I've observed. I've never had to spend "countless hours" prepping to talk to a contractor or a business person. I try to know what I'm doing (although some of my threads on this site certainly show that I don't!), and I find that honest statements about what I know, don't know, and what I need or want usually work just fine.

Yes susanka, it would most certainly be better if one could always just Straight talk, but that is not always the case. I think Florida has quite a few unscrupulous business owners (but some good too). If you watch Americas Most Wanted, they are often found in Florida lol. I love Colorado; the people there are very down to earth.

Thanks for not being offended. And straightforwardness and due diligence doesn't always work, either; witness my problems trying to make sure my BIL knew everything he needed to know before he did my backsplash. I thought he did; he didn't.

Don't know where you are in your kitchen-building, but if you're in the middle of it, I hope it all turns out as you want it to. Thanks again for your polite answer; I regretted having written what I did almost as soon as I clicked "submit".

Oh you are so nice susanka, I wasn't offended at all. It is different in other parts of the country and other parts of Florida for that matter. We are doing a DIY kitchen and I have no idea when we will be done but I'm hoping by the end of sept...I think I'm dreaming though. I'm sorry you had problems with your backsplash but hope you worked it out.

It's being worked, but not worked out yet! We're hoping to have at least a plan decided on by next week. We're not DIYers, neither one of us have that much courage.

I feel that some commercial enterprises perhaps have professional searches done on a regular basis to see what is mentioned on the Web about their firm or their products. IMHO, that is how Senor Tex knows when to show up.

But I've been on GW for many years now, starting in the garden side and working my way over here. I usually hang out on the Smaller Homes forum, but when it is slow, I visit Kitchens and also Decorating. LOTS happening with you folks!

And Martha's voice is present quite a lot. I can identify with her, and I appreciate the way she reports her personal experiences with her home projects. I also extend that to the way she is treated by a supplier or dealer. As a woman who is older, and was single for 32 years of my adult life, I know what she probably encountered more than once in her life. So I can take her report at face value, and not question her veracity.

Thank you, Martha, for telling it like you experienced it. No one can deny you the right to report how this affected you. To all others, I say, don't kill the bearer of the news.

Frankly, I'm not a fan of soapstone, but your experience would not deter me from choosing it if I were. I would heed your experiences and try to avoid the same situation, possibly circumventing dealing with Senor Tex if at all possible.

As for knowing it all in advance, I am learning things every day. Like finding tall or high cabinets to make some roll out pantries....which the product catalogs don't totally explain the possible configurations, you just have to call around and to ask. If you've never purchased something, how can you know it all in the beginning? **snort**guffaw**hehehehe**experience is a dear teacher, but you learn well.

My turn!

For those who questioned (I'm being nice -- your comments made you look like total douches to me) marthavila's honest feelings about being "excited" and later "hurt" -- have you done your remodel yet? Has it been your personal remodel, the kitchen in which you have lived, lived during the remodel and will live long after? Have your remodels cost you a lot of money, whatever your individual definition of "a lot" is? Are you able to recognize that different people have (and are entitled to) different responses to the same situation?

I think marthavila is freaking AWESOME and the most generous (okay, tie with starpooh for running the blog!) and one of the longest-lasting contributors here on GW. She was here before I joined (three+ years ago) and is here now (and I am not -- a friend asked me to look up her post and that's why I'm here now). Not long after I finished my emotional remodel I dropped off GW -- even though of course that was the point at which I had the most to share, as I'd "been there, done that," a la marthavila! But I was both emotionally spent and felt "done," ready to move out of the kitchen-planning stage, plus the rest of my life took priority. marthavila has a full life but she still makes so much time to not just provide help to anonymous others, she has also given so v. much emotional support to us kitchen remodelers who are having a hard time. I was one of those, and I will NEVER forget the incredible kindness, compassion and generosity of spirit she showed me. Never.

I mean, how f**king entitled are the lot of us who get to do kitchen remodels, even the "lower" budgeted? There are people on this continent (let alone the rest of the world) for whom clean, running water is scarce or non-existent. In the scheme of things who gives a rat's ass that my slab of marble was switched?

But I cared and I was *hurt* and angry and marthavila did not deny me the right to feel however I wanted. While I doubt this, she could've thought to herself "what a navel gazer -- how dumb to get emotionally attached to any piece of a kitchen!" but she is such a kind, empathic person she wouldn't have been either mean or stupid enough to write it.

I refuse to brook bullying in any form, against any one. Fine, you disagree with marthavila: then do just that. "I had a great experience with them!" and move on. It totally undermines any "case" you might want to make by attacking her.

I couldn't care less about soapstone or any of its suppliers / fabricators / whatever (no offense), so Roger or anyone, I don't care. But how wonderful that marthavila was willing to make the time to share her experience so others can make a more informed decision and if they have (or had) any sort of a similar experience they'll at least know they're not alone.

xo to marthavila for helping everyone out here!

Well, flirtatious or not, i think jterrilynn hit it right on the head when she said that she finds it "... outrageous that the person spending money is not allowed to ask too many questions or they are considered a painwhat the heck??? ".

Lazygardens is out of their mind if s/he thinks that there is something laudable about not getting customer recommendations available. It isn't rocket science to know that you can call up a few customers to ask if a couple of them would be amenable to having a prospective client check with them. I needed painting done and I made sure to get references - I got references for every part of my kitchen remodel (not that it did me much good with my GC/PM as I still picked the losers) - and I know that all the contractors checked with prior clients to ask if they would serve as references. Shucks, when each of them got done they checked with me about whether I'd serve as a reference! How lazy do you have to be to think that it is a (a) huge undertaking to check with an old customer if they can be a reference or (b) to know that you have to call up an old customer to get their permission to give 'em out as references?! Lazygardener's BIL was wrong to hand out old references without checking with them about serving as references - but that doesn't mean that there is anything laudable about blocking such a basic move. Hopefully BIL is out of work by now - no contractor who operates like him (or RogerTex, if indeed he takes exception to being asked for references) should be able to operate.

Also not buying the fact that Mons Tex acted gentlemanly by getting himself out of the race because MarthaVila had spoken to a fabricator. If M.Tex chooses to both be a stone supplier to other fabricators as well as to be a fabricator, he is, by definition, competing with them. QED. She was not signed up with anyone that I can tell from this thread - she had spoken to other fabricators. What are you all and R.Tex suggesting - that she not talk to other fabricators before she dares to speaks with R.Tex? She's said this enough times for even a deaf man to have heard that she wasn't signed up with any fabricator shop - she was shopping around.

Davidro, I'm afraid you're talking through your hat regarding the "learn to use YPs/ Web" etc. Don't know if you've shopped for stones in your kitchen setup yet but the ratio of stone fabricators to slab suppliers is much much much greater than 1. Even for Granite, there are only so many stone yards - the chaps that stock slabs. Fabricator shops are a dime a dozen but all you get to see are their 12"x12" samples. you've got to get to a stone yard to see the slabs - and despite your pain which really indicates that you are confusing fabricator with stone vendor with specialist - there are far fewer of these.

As a ferinstance ... in the Boston area - one of the economic power houses in the land that is the RE economic powerhouse that you believe it to be - after my remodel, I know of 4 stone yards in this area. 4. There may be more but I know of just 4. Only three of which I knew about when I did my remodel; the fourth I found long after I was done. Now, I know about OR visited in one way or another more than 20-30 shops that would fabricate and install. But they get their slabs from the three stone yards I mentioned. You don't get to see large slabs of stone at these shops, nor are you going to find the range at any of these at a place that specializes in SS. And that's all there is to it.

Little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I'd suggest you wait until you know what you're talking about before you espouse opinions.

go mindstorm! david riled the wrong person. I didn't know you were still around.

I suppose, for me anyway, any opinion on this back and forth all boils down to motive for posting. Sure, it's hard to judge motive on a post or two. But, this particular exchange has been going on in some form or another for a couple of years, so those of us who have been around that long can probably see the bigger picture a little easier.

Roger Teixeira's motive is clearly to protect his financial interest by guarding the reputation of his company. That's a perfectly reasonable and understandable motive for posting here. On the other hand, it does lead one to interpret the content of his posts with that motive in mind. Others have given examples of how, even with a customer's reporting of an unpleasant experience with his company, he could have commented in a way that was far more customer-oriented.

Marthavila has a very long history of posting here, and her posts are always, always, always helpful and polite. Her motive for making such posts has always been evident--she wants to help others through an experience she found challenging. I find it impossible to believe that her posts about her soapstone experiences were motivated by anything nefarious.

I remember a couple of years ago being impressed with her refusal to share any specific negative details on the forum. Roger took this as some covert attempt to "get" his company. I took it as a very polite woman being classy and discrete and avoiding a public bashing of a company and its owner. She was, in a way, doing him a favor by not posting all the details of their exchange on the forum before now, but rather than recognize that, he came here and responded with unpleasant posts.

There are plenty of reasons to choose a company or to avoid a company. Some of the main reasons include quality of product and workmanship, timeliness, price, and customer relations. We all put different values on each of these areas, and any weighting only has to make sense to the person making the choice. You may value quality of workmanship and may be willing to pay more or put up with crappy customer relations in order to get it. I may value price and may be willing to sacrifice quality a bit to get a better price. Marthavila values customer relations. Despite being treated what I consider to be rudely, she persisted because she also values quality. But, she values customer relations enough that she felt compelled to share her experiences. I, for one, appreciate that. It is, after all, the entire purpose of this forum.

Into the fray again!

I waited a full day before responding again because I want to make sure that I say exactly what I'm trying to say.

First, I want to respond to Martha directly because she responded to me and then I want to make a general comment.

Martha, I do not see my comments as "aligning" myself with anyone. This is not a schoolyard and we are not choosing for teams. My comment was not to attempt to make this an issue of taking sides, placing blame or interpreting who was correct or incorrect in this situation. My assumption is that each of you have a perspective you consider valid. I find that to be the case in almost every story.

I still have very deliberately not read the thread that is being discussed. I may have read it in passing had it appeared on a day that I had more time on the forum but at this point I am glad I did not. That way I can know, for myself, that I am responding only to the this single thread. The ONLY viewpoint I have read on this situation is YOURS. I have not heard or read Rogers/M. Tex's (aside from him making the statement on this thread that he will no longer respond to the posts).

I spent over an hour working on my original response because I am not attempting to inflame you in anyway. I have been here quite a while myself and do not attempt to "stir the pot" for my own ends.

The only thing I was attempting to address is the viewpoint of a business owner who choses not to make a sale or accept a new client. In my eyes, the situation was very simple. A customer wanted to purchase an item but asked for special treatment. The seller refused the special treatment and because of the requests says that they will still allow her to make the purchase but are not willing to do the install. The customer was unable to find another company willing to do the install and so had to find a different supplier.

Annetacm has all my sympathy but I see her situations as being a perfect example of what this situation is not. She first had a contractor who quit part way through a job and then a medical doctor who again, quit part way through the job. Those situations must have been horrible for her and SO frustrating. I'm frustrated just reading about those! However, what we have have here is not someone who started a job and walked away or even did a bad job. Unless I misunderstand, this is a situation where no contract was signed, no money changed hands, no work was done. It's simply a situation where one supplier opted not to work with a possible client.

I would compare the two situations almost as the difference between going to a job interview and not getting a call back or getting the job, working 6 months and then being let go. Both of them have stress and frustration. FOR ME though, while I may still bash a previous employer (because god knows it's never MY fault!;) I rarely sit around and talk about the lost job interview of years ago.

I did NOT mean to say something you were going to take both negatively and personally. I can say that to you in absolute honesty. There have been a number of times in my life when I have either chosen not to work with someone or have had them chose not to work with me. It DOES feel personal. And THAT is what I feel was missing from my original post. While I stand behind my words in response to you I also should have added that I can understand what it feels like to want something and not have it. I understand what it can be like to want to get a job and have someone tell me no. When I thought I couldn't get the ovens I wanted I was very upset. I certainly don't handle it well when someone says I can't have something I want. I would love to say that I handle it with maturity and grace but often I fail at that. I should have been more empathic towards the situation.

Having said all of that I wanted to respond to the many protective posts that have been placed in Martha's defense. I think many of them are wonderful and great and I want to applaud the sentiment behind them. BUT I'm not sure if they were necessary. I was not attacking Martha. For the most part I don't believe the other posts are attacking Martha.

If some of us have touched a raw nerve it's because this thread would not exist if there was not a raw nerve here. By disagreeing that does not mean that we are trying to attack anyone. We are only disagreeing or putting forth a different opinion. We are NOT, again for the most part, trying to insult Martha.

I think it's sad that some companies are now refusing to give out references. Look at most threads where someone reports a contractor horror-story - there's always someone who posts "Did you get and check references?" What is a layperson to do?

Companies have the right to drop a "problem" customer (unless they're under contract, of course.) If someone requires too much hand-holding, makes too many special requests, takes up too much staff time, asks for too many concessions, I can see where a reasonable business owner may conclude that the potential customer is not the right customer for them.

With that being said, that business realistically should expect that, when asked, the rejected customer will indicate that the company's customer service is poor. Being rejected is a negative customer experience. Customers with negative experiences frequently complain. The choice the business owner makes is 1)take the potential problem customer and accept the fallout of that decision, or 2)refuse the potential problem customer, and accept the fallout of that decision.

The company I work at rejects potential customers at times. I would guess that most companies do. But the decision probably shouldn't be centered around "is this customer easy and profitable?" A better question to ask is "can we accept the damage that rejecting this customer might result in?"

I don't know the stone business. (Ask me for help interpreting your state's life insurance regulations and contract language, and I'm your girl though!) When the time comes for my remodel, the folks that patiently and good-naturedly answer my questions and provide good references are the ones that are likely to get the business. The way I see it, if you treat me badly before you have my money, why would I expect you to treat me well after you have my money?

To me, the review of a potential customer is just as important as the review of an actual customer, but for different reasons. I don't want to waste time/money/heartache on getting a bid from a contractor who is like the Soup Nazi (Seinfeld character reference, and no, for gosh sakes, I'm not comparing any actual person to an actual Nazi.)

If there's a magic formula you have to complete to be considered worthy of paying the contractor
to provide a service, well, forget it. That's how *I* roll, and so this type of review is helpful to me. That issue may not put off other people, like someone who values a good price or quality product more than ease of doing business. As for me, I am willing to pay a premium for convenience.

Martha, I wanted to say something to you. I'm sorry. I think part of my last post may not read the way I intended it. When I said your OP read to me as over-dramatic, I didn't mean to imply that I think you're a drama queen or something like that. What I mean is that the language you used has connotations for me that imply an experience more dreadful than I can associate with the actual situation you reported. That very well may have nothing to do with you, and much to do with how I interpret things I read. Too bad we can't "hear" posts and gets cues from inflection, or get visual cues from body language, etc.

All I can say is that the market is wide open for a chinese importer to sell prefab soapstone counters. The same way granite prefabs have lowered the price of this once pricey stone, there is a market for soapstone prefab.

let the competition begin...

I've followed this post a bit, and I just wanted to add something. As part of a family business (so not quite an owner, but possessing a tremendous personal stake in the success of a business), I have always felt like there is no excuse for not providing excellent customer service--to people you enjoy working with, people who are total buttholes, people you know well, people you don't know well, people who take your excellent service for granted, people who really appreciate you, people who know everything there is to know about the product we provide, people who don't know jack squat: it doesn't matter. Whether production on a job goes well or goes badly (because mistakes happen, catastrophes happen, pricing errors occur), the one thing in my complete control is making sure that at the end of it, my customer knows my company gives a crap about them and want them to be happy (and, ultimately, want them to have nice things to say about my company to everyone they know).

Now, the other side of that is that of course there are customers that are too small for us to be profitable, or the scope of their job just doesn't fit our shop. We are a large commercial printer--publications, direct mail, directories, etc.--and we occasionally get calls from people who want 250 business cards and that's all. Rather than give them a ridiculously inflated estimate and intimidate them out the door, we do our best to determine the scope of their project and help them find another local shop that best fits their needs. They appreciate that, and the smaller shop appreciates it, and I have just extended goodwill to the industry locally and I have established or strengthened relationships with a customer and a vendor. Just because a customer isn't paying me doesn't mean they don't deserve excellent, considerate customer service.

Also, to the notion of a "problem customer," yeah, they are out there, and I've dealt with some doozies. And it wasn't just the people who know everything they need to know about buying printing who come off as jerks. But it doesn't matter. If we aren't treating every customer as if they are The Most Important Customer, then we are doing it wrong. Period. (We've noticed in the meantime that the checks from the Problem Customers are just as valuable as the checks from the Awesome Customers. ) If things go sour with a customer, the last thing I ever want to do is get into a war of words with them, because there is no winner in that circumstance. As much as it may sting my ego, I have to kiss their behind, turn myself inside out, apologize for whatever it is that went south and do whatever is in my power to make them happy,

So, this got a little long, but I am just throwing it out there to point out, regardless of the specifics (Martha vs. Roger, soapstone vs. some other kitchen purchase, open forums vs. private email, huge budget vs. small), to me this is a classic lesson in how important customer service is. No matter how Mr. Texeira actually treated her (not that I doubt a single thing Martha says is true, at all), the fact is that she felt badly done by and that's all that matters.

Finally, specifically to Martha's situation, it seems weird to me that M. Tex should be so upset that she may have been working with another fabricator. Technically, if he is the primary distributor as well as a fabricator, he'll be getting paid at one end anyway, so why make her feel bad? If he knew from the outset that the scope of her job was too small for him, why not take the extra step of putting her in contact with another fabricator that is better suited to her, since he presumably has good relationships with other local fabricators.... but having never purchased stone tops myself, maybe this isn't quite how things work... Either way, interesting discussion, hopefully Mr. Texeira is still following along and making note of both the positive and negative remarks offered. Best to you, Martha, thank you for sharing. :)

Hiya judeny! I'm not around much - only pop by when I'm procrastinating and trying to put off work! ;-) I saw MarthaVila's post just as I read the posts from folks I remember, when I stop by. Its nice to see you, too! I didn't think you were still by much.

Amanda's post made a lot of sense, to me. Very sophisticated business owner, this lady.

Oddly enough, just today my mother forwarded me this story from somewhere and I thought how topical it was for Martha's tale.

A lady in a faded gingham dress and her husband, dressed in a homespun threadbare suit, stepped off the train in Boston , and walked timidly without an appointment in to the Harvard University President's outer office.

The secretary could tell in a moment that such backwoods, country hicks had no business at Harvard and probably didn't even deserve to be in Cambridge .

We'd like to see the president,' the man said softly. 'He'll be busy all day,' the secretary snapped. 'We'll wait,' the lady replied.

For hours the secretary ignored them, hoping that the couple would finally become discouraged and go away. They didn't, and the secretary grew frustrated and finally decided to disturb the president, even though it was a chore she always regretted.

'Maybe if you see them for a few minutes, they'll leave,' she said to him!

He sighed in exasperation and nodded. Someone of his importance obviously didn't have the time to spend with them, and he detested gingham dresses and homespun suits cluttering up his outer office.

The president, stern faced and with dignity, strutted toward the couple.

The lady told him, 'We had a son who attended Harvard for one year.

He loved Harvard. He was happy here. But about a year ago, he was accidentally killed. My husband and I would like to erect a memorial to him, somewhere on campus.'

The president wasn't touched. He was shocked. 'Madam,' he said, gruffly, 'we can't put up a statue for every person who attended Harvard and died. If we did, this place would look like a cemetery.'

Oh, no,' the lady explained quickly. 'We don't want to erect a statue. We thought we would like to give a building to Harvard.'

The president rolled his eyes. He glanced at the gingham dress and homespun suit, then exclaimed, 'A building! Do you have any earthly idea how much a building costs? We have over seven and a half million dollars in the physical buildings here at Harvard.'

For a moment the lady was silent. The president was pleased. Maybe he could get rid of them now.

The lady turned to her husband and said quietly, 'Is that all it costs to start a university? Why don't we just start our own?'

Her husband nodded. The president's face wilted in confusion and bewilderment. Mr and Mrs. Leland Stanford got up and walked away, traveling to Palo Alto, California where they established the university that bears their name, Stanford University, a memorial to a son that Harvard no longer cared about.

You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them.

...A TRUE STORY By Malcolm Forbes

'People will forget what you said,
People will forget what you did.

But people will never forget how you made them feel'.

That's a nice parable about Stanford, but it just doesn't ring true. Read about Leland Stanford on Wikipedia. Then you'll realize, no matter who it is telling the story (i.e. Malcom Forbes) you can't always believe what they are telling you. Take everything with a grain of salt and double-check the facts for yourself.

gharbowa, when I read that Stanford commissioned new technology to perform a study to ascertain whether or not galloping horses have all four feet off the ground - I have to say that robber baron or not, he is ALL RIGHT in my book.

Look, the point isn't whether A has the ability to screw B or not, and whether B knows if A can screw him or not ... it is about how B behaves. The last line is really the key.

... btw, you're right. Apparently, the above is a popular eRumour according to snopes et. al. It is also improperly attributed to Forbes.
(Darned Mum!)

Sorry. Sorry. So Rog Tex and co. may safely go back to behaving like snooty arses with no fears of come-uppance.

;-)

OT, but I must caution readers against regarding Wiki-anything or Snopes as definitive references. I shoot students at sunrise for doing so. Just waving hello to old timers whom I don't see much around here. BTW, when Mindstorm distinguishes topics from rocket science, I am compelled to trust her. And rm, you crack me up.

Martha - you don't need my support, since you have the support of many other GW long-timers, but I wanted to tell you that you most sincerely have it. I've been around here for three years and I very much enjoy your thoughtful and helpful posts and advice. I agree with everyone who pointed out that customer service is perhaps the most important aspect of running a small business. I have attempted a small business myself and cannot say strongly enough how important it was to me (and frankly, to my business) to make clients happy. In my town, I go to Home Depot rather than the tiny, privately-owned hardware store because the owner of that store is rude and makes me feel like I'm bugging him, and the folks at my HD are helpful and nice. I go to Giant rather than Safeway for the same reason. I love the independent music store because of the lovely employees. The woman at the cheese counter at my Whole Foods gives unhelpful, one-word answers to questions, so I go out of my way to the small cheese store in town. I am polite and respectful and kind when I deal with people; I expect the same back. That goes for whether I'm buying a coffee, or dropping $10k for a countertop.

Thanks for your story, Martha. I'm sorry you're getting blowback for it.

november

ha ha November... that made me chuckle.."the woman at the cheese counter giving one word answers" When I get the same kind of response at my local Wegmans, I am tempted to say "I thought you were suppoosed to be a World Class Store.. it's all a scam" but I bite my tongue!!

Awwww. Poor thing!! Her momma probably told her better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot than open it and remove all doubt.

I just started posting here again recently so I don't know Martha, but she is clearly well-loved and respected.

I'm glad she shared her story, but I hope that people who are in the market for soapstone will take into account that this is ONE story about this company, from three years ago, where no actual transaction took place. The company seems to have far more satisfied customers from gardenweb who were happy with their experience. It would be unfair not to take those stories into account and give them equal weight in evaluating the company.

Martha, I am sorry you had such a frustrating experience and glad that everything turned out well for you in the end.

Chana, what's missing from your analysis, because you were away during this time, is that every time Marthavila makes one little peep -- generally only when asked -- Mr. T. has pounced immediately and been very aggressive and bullyish. If he had let it be, the whole thing might have faded from her memory. It's only the continued harassment that made her post the details at all. Usually she just says something like, "I had an unpleasant experience with their customer service, three years ago. If you require more details I'll tell you privately." Her experience with the company probably wouldn't deter me from patronizing them. Instead, it would teach me to beware of saying the wrong thing, etc. Mr. T.'s behavior certainly has turned me off to the whole company. I didn't even consider using them when I was looking for my soapstone because he's been so unpleasant.

And for the record, I was not trying to compare my story detail for detail to Martha's. Yes, in my cases, my "contracts" were broken midstream, not in Martha's. But for all who jumped on Martha for feeling this rejection a little too deeply or over-dramatically, I was just making a point that when blind-sided or abruptly dismissed, even after repeated attempts to state one's case which does nothing but solidify the notion that one is a problem customer ("Look, she keeps talking and asking why won't we service her? She doesn't even have the smarts to know when she's not wanted! Glad we didn't take her on!"), when THAT happens, it becomes personal and lingering. She isn't being unusually sensitive. It's frustrating, especially when you feel they "won". In the end, we know Martha got a counter with a better experience, I got a better doctor AND a finished backsplash, but it still feels like I was not heard or considered in my cases. And those feelings linger and still make me mad. And I wanted to shout to anyone who would listen my story of customer no-service. Martha showed better restraint most days around here than I would have.

I have observed, as Plllog has, a few years' worth of these M. Tex threads go by. Regardless of the particular dispute, I agree it's best for a company owner not to get involved in online discussions re. negative customer experiences. And most especially if that owner has a temper. Having been caught in the crossfire of R. Tex's name-calling on a thread a year or two ago, after haplessly answering someone's queries about installation quality, I was not personally impressed by this form of marketing.

Your mileage, as always, may vary. Caveat emptor, and always read between the lines.

I actually wish there were more "bad experience" stories on GW. You learn as much from those as you do from posts giving good advice. When plumerivine was having all those installation problems, many wanted her to reveal the culprit so people would know not to hire them if we were in the same area.

Sure, sometimes those bad experiences are the exception rather than the rule for a certain company but I'd still like to know. Just like seller ratings on eBay, the more informed you are about a company, the more informed your purchase decision will be. I'll buy from the seller with a 100% rating over the guy with a 98% rating all day, every day and twice on Sunday. If some people on this forum choose to dismiss those "bad experience" stories, that's their prerogative. But personally, I'm all ears.

I suppose I should stick up for the owners who pop up when they get an alert now. I can't remember who it was, or what the business was, but, either in Kitchens or Appliances, we had a member who posted a very distressing story looking for ideas and answers. Someone from the company came into the thread and asked her to get in contact with the someone offline so they could sort it out. The difference is this message was of the sort Amanda was talking about. It was low stress, helpful, understanding and offering to be of service. I don't remember what the outcome was, but rather than the post being intrusive, we all lauded it as a model of how we would like businesses to address our concerns.

Roger T wrote; "it seems like most of the members disapprove of business owners to participate in these discussions."

As someone who has been around GW for a very long time, that statement couldn't be farther from the truth.

Business owners bring their own unique perspective to the forum(s) and based on what I've seen over the years, their knowledge and experience is most appreciated. What is not appreciated is poor or sloppy business ethics.

Roger, there is a reason MV was unhappy with your company. It makes sense that if she was offended, there are others. In today's economy, the smarter stance from you would have been, 'let me look into what transpired with your experience'. Let me make sure other potential customers don't have the same experience.

Hiya Mindstorm!

Beautifully written Paulines.

Thanks Boxer :)

i am sorry for your bad experience martha; the entire experience, including these threads! you should know a lot of the time any woman, single or not who walks into a showroom, car dealership or wherever, ALONE is open prey for whatever disgruntled, insecure male to push around. i've been working on our new build for the past four years and in that time have shopped/planned/done everything alone. in the end i've ended up with a handful of dependable, honest people around me. that's not to say that i had to weed out the bad eggs in the beginning. it's all part of the process, i guess ...and the way it seems to work in all dealings. it's somewhat amusing to see roger wander over to beat that poor dead horse, no doubt adding more fuel to the fire. yet his only defense was that you were working with another fabricator. clearly you said you were not, and we have no reason at all to doubt you. why would we? and even if you were, in these times (or any other for that matter) it is perfectly reasonable to "shop around". contrary to what some may think that is the right of the consumer, after all.
i don't mind having business owners and other professionals join in as long as they wish to contribute meaningful discussion. having not read the original thread which sparked this one, i'm not sure that's the case with RT.
i'm happy to have you here marthaelena. you have been a thoughtful poster and great help to me. i don't think you should hesitate to remark honestly, ever, on whatever topic. that's what we're here for!

Hi guys,
I'm pretty new to this but thought I would sign up as this thread seems very interesting. As an M. Texeira shopper myself I was actually quite pleased with the way my visit was handled. No too long ago (2 or 3 weeks ago if I'm not mistaken) I took a very long drive to NJ and met with Sal, very nice and attentive person. I had orginally gone there with the intention of purching Soapstone, obviously, but Sal had some good points and somehow convinced me to go for granite instead. Not to mention I got some really good deals on it (who wouldn't appreciate that in this economy right?)Eitherway, i still took a close look at the soapstone and then went right over to a company he works with for granite, it wasnt too far actually, very convenient. To make a long story short, I chose my granite slabs, but I'm still not quite ready for them. He was very helpful and its nice to know that I could have gone with soapstone or granite almost "within the same company".
I'll post pictures when we're all done.

Hi Sheaininli, thank you for your post and joining the forum today and replying today in learning of this post. Im looking forward to hearing others stories who also somehow just learned of this thread and will also be new to the kitchen forum replying to this post. I just wonder how everyone will learn of this threadHmmmm. All my best of everything with your new kitchen counters and Im glad you had a good experience and no one stalked you!

Dear Sheainli,

I was actually hoping this thread, as well as the other recent one regarding my experience with M. Texiera, would have been exhausted and off the rotation by now. Then, lo and behold! I see you just joined the GW community today and, in your first act of sharing comments with this group, you have chosen to tell us on both of these threads about your wonderful experience with Texiera. What a coincidence! Forgive me if I sound a bit wary of the timing and circumstances of your introductory comments to this forum. OTOH, I do not wish to adopt the style of Roger Teixiera and unfairly accuse anyone of dirty motives in posting here. Therefore, in the event you are truly a new member to this community who has unwittingly jumped into the fray, and who intends to stay around and share your remodel experience with us all the way through, then please let me be among the first to welcome you here. Really. At the same time, Sheanli, I think your post does open the door for me to make some final, hopefully closing comments on this entire debacle.

As I've tried to say, in numerous times and in numerous ways, I've never doubted the rave reviews of M. Texiera which have dominated these boards for years. Indeed, had it not been for so many satisfied M. Texiera customers who have posted about those experiences here, I might never have ever wound up at that company looking to buy soapstone in the first place. A business does not get a glowing reputation in a forum community such as this because it's a lousy place to do business! I get that and I don't begrudge anyone their wonderful experience with M. Texiera. I only wish that same story could have been mine.

But, sadly, it's NOT my story! Instead, I entered the doors of M. Teixiera with a consumer anticipation and excitement that was beyond measure. And, I was greeted by Michelle, Leo and other employees with professionalism and warmth. However, after only after my asking some pretty basic questions on the specifics,Roger Texiera ordered the quote and contract to me to be dismissed. Further, he withdrew the contract offer on the basis of an untruth which, despite my refutations, he refused to discuss. From what I've seen of some of the comments to this thread, not everyone would have been upset by Roger Teixiera's behavior. However, my truth is, (which is the bottom point of this thread after all) by the time my last futile effort to do business with M. Teixiera was rejected, I felt erased. And, no, I don't like the feeling of erasure. Not one bit.

For once and for all, let me also make it clear that I did not initiate this thread in order to "get" M. Texiera or to try to take down that business! Let's be real. I'm a single, older female consumer who had one bad experience with the company. How is it even conceivable that someone like me has the means to cause harm to a mega-business in the North American soapstone industry that more likely than not has a profit statement that runs in the millions? I don't. OTOH, and despite all the wonderful experiences so many have had with M. Teixiera, I just can't make the same claim. Thus, when members of the community have solicited member opinions of the company, I've tried to offer my minority viewpoint in a non-dramatic way. In fact, for a long time, I would just state simply online that my experience at the quote state was not good and, occasionally, I would offer alternative vendors as a suggestion. Even less frequently, I would share details of my negative experience with selected members in private, offline. Nevertheless, every single time I would attempt to exercise my right to say that my experience with the company had not been a good one, Roger Texiera would come onto these boards to attack my character and to suggest he was the world's greatest business person with the most wonderful of customer skills. After his last attempt at that (which appears in the thread you chose to resurrect with complimentary comments off the back pages of the Forum today) I had finally had it. For me it was high time to accede to Roger's demand that I publicly tell all the specifics of my issue with his company and to counter his accusations against me of a nefarious plot to do harm.

I say all that to say that this thread is about my story! And I'd like to tell it without having my character assaulted and diminished as one who is "ignorant", "a PITA" or "not worth it." Frankly, I'd also prefer not to see this thread become a platform for all those who are anxious to say they had a good experience with Teixiera. That's the majority story after all and there have been plenty of threads in which to do that in the past; surely there will be more opportunities to crow about the company in the days ahead. Bottom line: if you're happy with the experience you've had with M. Texiera, good for you! The past few days of spilling the beans about my bad experience will not change that. AFAIK, Roger Teixiera is still the soapstone king.

Finally, I did want to come back here just to thank those of you who really do "get" why I wrote this thread in the first place. To see and read all your comments of support has been truly uplifting. Yes, it's been cathartic to get this matter off my chest for once and for all. But, even better, it's been a blessing to finally be heard, respected and encouraged on this matter by a community I've grown to love dearly. A feeling of erasure has been replaced by a feeling of affirmation and support. And, in the process, I'm reminded that "I get by with a little help from my friends." :-)

Thank you GW friends!

Martha
Thanks for sharing your story. I am going to give somewhat dispassionate analysis.

For many people they do not shop based on the customer service. Instead, the shopping is based on the price and less importantly, the quality of the work. If the company delievers at least one of these three aspects; customer service, price and quality, they will do "OKAY" in the business world.

I am sorry that they were dismissive and rude to you. But it seems to me that you are even more annoyed that they refused to do business with you even when you begged them to and when you tried to deal through a fabricator.

I think each business has to make a decision when the business is not worth it for them to take on the risk because of "the perceived risk" with that customer. I don't know why but somehow you triggered that "perceived risk" or "potential risk" to the owner. Or maybe you just made him mad. Who knows.

I am not a business owner but I see the need for assessing risks to my business and exercising remedies for that. If a business owner starts a transaction that has a contract and a change of money, then they have taken a certain liability. If they refuse to do business with a potential customer, then they have removed themselves from that liability. For whatever reason, R Teixeira has chosen the refusal route.

Thanks for sharing your story. At least we know that it is a company that exercises the decision making regarding who should be their customer. We also know that they can be rude to people.

In many ways, it is a sound business decision not to take on "potential and possible" risky customers. How they arrive at that decision can make it or break it for them. In doing so, the business can pis$ off people/customers that are refused the service and impact future business. If you refuse too many people, obviously you won't have a business. If you take on too many risky customers, you will have lawsuits/grievances/crazy demands/unhappy employees/loss of profit etc on your hands.....

Perhaps, the last customer that was much like you sued him. Perhaps, he/she made him lose money. Who knows. But what is also not going to happen is for him to let you know in public or private why he refused your business. It probably will not do any good for his business to let the world know why. Instead it carries the risk of the internet to become viral with "why" which won't really help his cause. Everyone knows that there will always be unhappy customers no matter what. I don't think you will get your apology..... Even so, thanks for sharing your story.

jterrilynn:

LOL!!!! (That was SO well-written!)

:-)

francy

Kaismom, whether they should or should not have accepted the custom is not the point in the end. (In the beginning it was, since we were being cautioned not to try asking the same questions lest we also be dismissed.) The point is that once they've chosen not to do business with that customer, and used a half-truth or fib as an excuse to end the relationship, they should expect that customer to say she wasn't happy with them. They should not be bullying that customer to try to shut her up because that just makes her experience with them worse.

In my opinion, serving your problem customers so well that they can't possibly complain about you is one of the best ways to maintain your reputation. Trying to stifle a complaint with bullying is one of the worst.

Marthavilla,

Excellent words !
Your strength, grace, and the ability to communicate
through the haze of negative comments tossed your way on
this link and by MT in the past is a tribute to the
elegant lady you truly are.

An admirer of your honest voice,
~boxerpups

Marthavila,

I surely do understand where you're coming from and do agree that not all experiences will be the same. Actually, I'm very sorry that you had to go through all that. Personally, my experience was a good one, but then again, I did not deal with Roger Texeira as you did. Also, my situation was a bit different from yours so perhaps I didnt even have the chance to encounter the bad side of it, luckily lol...I just had about a half hour visit and it did not jump to the next stage. Had it jumped I probably would have been in your same shoes.
Again, I just wanted to share my 2cents, for what its worth.

Marthavila, sorry to read about your troubles. It sounds like it was a very frustrating experience.

Well said, Fori and Boxerpups.

I think we tko GWers are probably more of the Martha type than not. We all care about the details and ask questions because we know enough to know we need to ask. If asking questions makes us PITAs then so be it.
If a business that deals with the public finds customer service to be onerous, then perhaps a job change is in order. If someone were to cross a line and say something offensive to the business people, then the professional can politely explain the offense. As someone who works 100% on commissions, I have to bite back what I am thinking fairly often and take a moment before responding if something rubs me the wrong way. Part of my job is to straighten out what I consider to be wrong thinking by customers or clients (I deal with both) and have to do so diplomatically. Often, it is my job to tell someone what they don't want to hear or educate them on something that they incorrectly think they know all about. If I am doing my job right, they come out of it with a new found perspective and no hard feelings.

I have had times when dealing with the public that someone blames the messenger or who has unrealistic expectations, but I know I have done my best to explain and not make anything personal. There will be misunderstandings from time to time or people who are just plain never going to "get it". No one will be appreciated 100% of the time.

I believe Martha in how she was treated. I also know that any one company feeling that they have a monopoly in an area is an easy path for them to be arrogant towards the public. I have competition from way too many people (many of whom are not as qualified as I am) yet that serves to keep me on my toes. If I do right by people, I make a decent living. If I am careless, ineffectual or rude, I will starve. It seems like there is no risk to M Tex to treat any one they want to treat badly in that way. They are the big fish. I think it is fine for Martha to point out her experiences and think that R Tex should expect blowback and handle it more professionally that he has.
I have only read this one thread about this situation, but I gather he has shown his arrogance in the matter and that is illuminating.
I know Martha from a few years ago here and always found her to be delightful and not a whiner. I am glad she finally shared her whole story.

Martha, I am sorry to hear about your experience. As a businessowner myself (not in the home improvement field), I can say that everyone does have a bad day. Hopefully the good days outweigh the bad, but that doesn't help if you were there on a "bad" day. I will say that we are currently doing our second kitchen job with Teixera, and we are very pleased. Our experience with their customer service and installers were very pleasant. Due to a mistake on my part (I'm playing GC), the templaters had to come back twice to make sure things were right. They waived their charge for doing so. This doesn't make your situation right, but as I said, everyone makes mistakes on occasion.