I'm enchanted with the notion of a closet just for shoes! I need a flip flop closet!

Is there any way you can draw it to scale? If I'm reading it right, I don't think you have enough aisle space around the island. The island is also what we call a barrier. The prep sink helps some, but it still seems really uncomfortable to me. Additionally, I'm not sure the super susan fits, but that might just be the sketch. An alternative, that would actually maximize storage, would be to make that a blind corner and have it open on the dining room side.

Remodelfla-
There was a long 'discussion' regarding the Master Closet and if it would accomodate all of our clothes/shoes etc. I concieded that the size would work but I needed a second closet for shoes, and viola shoe closet!

Plllog-
I have dont my very best to draw it to 1/8in scale. I have very limited artisctic ability.

I know it is a barrier island, but I'm stumped with regards to taking it away, bc there would be a ton of open space. I also really want an Island. There is 40in of aisle space around the entire island, the width of the island is 3'6 and length is 5'8. The width of the kitchen is 14'6.

I think it's going to be kinda tight opening the frig. If each door is 24" and you typically need 2' for a person to stand there and open the door... seems to tight. BUT... it might be a concession you're willing to make.

This will sound a bit silly, but if you have the room (even in another space), tape off the exact dimensions of your layout. Better yet, use empty boxes to 'build' your kitchen. Then try moving around in it. This relatively simple exercise changed my layout significantly, and I was glad to discover that 40" aisles were not comfortable before the kitchen was actually built!

My aisles are no more than 40" except in front of the fridge where I have 42-43". My 48" fridge is a 30/18" combo and we have no problems with it. I have some 37" clearances. While I would have loved another foot or two in my kitchen, it was more for another cabinet or a larger cabinet than for more aisle space.

For me, the prep sink is in the wrong spot (should be on the fridge side so you support work on that side of the kitchen and eliminate most of the barrier issues), the micro and warming drawer are in the wrong place (should got on the side with the range or on the fridge side, depending on how you would use them. I'd also rather have the DW on the other side of the sink from the range. Think about how you would work through meal prep, baking, serving at meals and parties, clean up and the extra people popping in and out of your kitchen. Assume that at least some of these are happening at the end of a long day, in a hurry and those less than ideal circumstances we all have to deal with. If they will work for you then, they should be fine in better circumstances too.

SF, graph paper makes it easier. :-) I commend you for drawing freehand to scale! Actually 40" is probably adequate. Really tight, but possible.

Your prep sink is quite close to your main sink. Do you really really want a prep sink? Can you do without it? If so, I'd suggest you do a freestanding island, either custom or furniture style. There are some amazing ones on the market, or you could just have casters installed under cabinetry. The advantage is that you can easily tweak the exact location of the island just by nudging it over an inch. As you use your kitchen you find places where it feels just too tight, and others where you can do without an inch or to. Plus, if you decide later that it's too much of a barrier it's very inexpensive to remove :)

Sqaure-ish spaces are really hard to make kitchens in, especially with doors on most walls (personal experience here!). You've done a good job squeezing everything you want into it.

Since you have a peninsula open to the DR (i.e., it's not 100% formal), I was thinking it might be more convenient for service to get a panelled warming drawer and have it open into the DR. Or if not that, open into the passageway between the kitchen and DR. Oh! Maybe that's what you meant by "on the end".

Remodelfla-
I agree, I would like more space between the island and fridge, but I don't think it is possible to get more aisle space and get an island. I MUST have an island, so I okay for it to be a touch tight.

Zigletto-
We were just talking about doing that, but I don't know where we would find the space. I'm going to keep thinking about spaces that we could use. I think the In Laws driveway/motor-court is big enough, I hope they don't mind blue painters tap!

Lascatx-
Glad to know you have the same aisle clearance! That makes me feel much better! I agree the PS should be on the left side of the island, after I drew it I rethought the placement.
We don't use the MW much, like MAYBE once a week, if that. I do love my WD and use it frequently. I was trying to save space by having the MW draw over the WD. Maybe I could put the MW and WD in the base cabinet to the left of the fridge? I'm not sure I want to lose the storage space next to the range by putting the MW/WD in that space.

I did not think of moving the DW. My DW today is to the left of my sink and I really like it, I have no idea why!I do see your point about disrupting flow by having it to the left.

Plllog-
I didn't even think about graph paper and I have a whole book of it! I will try and redraw the kitchen plan tomorrow.

I do want a PS but I'm not sure it will work in my space. I would like to exhaust every option before I throw it out.

This space has been a challenge! I can not wait until everything is decided and I no longer have to deal with layout issues!

I meant in the end cabinet closest to the passageway, but opening in the passageway is a thought. Do you think it would be tight?

Thanks for the thoughts! Please keep the ideas coming!

The island isn't really a barrier with the prep sink, and, as you and Lascatx have already discussed, it really needs to be on the corner toward the fridge instead of the dw.

As far as the dw goes, I'd put it closest to wherever the dishes will be stored without blocking access to that storage, so, I think, that would make it best on the right of the sink. I would want the trash handy also to the stove and prep areas, so would put it in the island where the prep sink is drawn (opening toward the sink wall), or where you now show the dishwasher.

The warming drawer should be close to your cooking area, so it's not such a trip everytime you want to slip something into it. In the case of current WD location, the island does become a barrier.

Are you sure you want open shelves on the bottom of your island? In my experience, the lower an open shelf, the quicker it gets dirty and the dirtier it gets. I don't know if you have pets, but dust bunnies and pet hair love low, open shelves... ;-)

I agree...to keep the island from becoming a "barrier island," the prep sink needs to be on the refrigerator side. I was going to recommend it be in the opposite corner so it would be near the MW, but I think it's better near the range for dumping hot water.

Are you sure you can stack a WD & MW in the same cabinet? Check specs for clearance/solid separator requirements for the specific ones you've chosen.

The other thing about WDs is that when polled, almost unanimously, those who have their WD near their cooktop/range like them and use them; those who have them far from the cooktop/range don't use them and either regret putting them in at all or regret the location. So, I highly recommend you move the WD to either the island across from the range or to one of the cabinets on either side of the range. You won't be losing overall storage, you'll just be redistributing it. (Besides, now you can put your MW tools, etc. in the drawer beneath the MW!)

Regarding the WD, you use yours frequently so know what you like about the positioning and the way it works. Since you love it, you should try to preserve those qualities. (I.e., height, access to stove, access to table, direction you have to turn, number of steps you have to take, etc.) If you love it, make sure you'll continue to love it.

As to received wisdom, although it's true that people like it near the cooking if they're using it to hold items that are finished before others (beans are done and go in, put in the rolls to warm, still making the gravy and finishing the roast, add the gravy to the drawer to hold while the roast rests). Others like it near the dining area to keep the plated food (or pizza in box, rolls, etc.) hot.

What's more important to a lot of people is that they don't like using the warming drawer if it's mounted low, as in under a stack of ovens. Your plan is tight, so low might be the best place for you, but it's something to consider.

plllog/ Buehl-
My warming drawer today is under the oven, which is really low. I use it mainly to keep things warm while finishing other parts of the meal. I don't think it would get used in the dinning room.

What about putting the WD where the PS is in the drawing and moving the PS to the left side of the island. but still keeping it facing the range?

Should I move the microwave to the island too? Even though we don't use it much, it would be nice to have it closer to water/fridge/pantry OR I could put it in the base cabinet next to the fridge.

Rhome-
I didn't even think about the dust issues with the open shelves. My MIL has open shelves on one side of her island and I have never noticed dust, maybe she always cleans before we get there, but I will inquire about how often, etc. We do have a very large and furry dog, so definitely something to think about!

I forgot to ask. What does everyone think of putting a 27'fridge and 27' freezer on the back wall and moving the pantry to the West wall? I would be able to increase the size of the pantry from 36' to 48'.

Sometimes doing things the "usual" way is beneficial even if it isn't quite your thing. I think putting the MW next to or across from the fridge is a good idea, if it doesn't end up in a place where you really want something else. I don't know if there's a potential for kids in your home, even if they're just visiting for a week every so often, but a low MW near the fridge like that, is great for kids getting their own snacks. You might consider the Sharp drawer style MW.

With the prep sink in the island the fridge is in the best place where it is. It's easy to access from the dining room for getting dressing, milk, etc., and it's easy to get a cold drink coming in from the bedroom. If you put it where the pantry is, people have to cross through the work zones to get to it. And it'll squeeze your range zone.

Is a 24" WD big enough for you? If so, put it by the range so you don't have to twist with a hot pot. Consider putting it under a utensil drawer, but above a drawer for less used items. "Less used" includes pots, because most people take them out once. During cooking and plating you'll be in and out of the WD.

You could fit my WD (a 24"W x 21"D Dacor) under my micro drawer, no problem. I think you would probably lose the shallow drawer at the top though. I suspect most would fit, but throwing that out there in case the outlet location and plug clearances create any issues for you.

If you don't put them next to the range, then at the end of the island would probably be the next choice -- or next to the fridge. Deciding which one would depend on who uses it, how often and for what. We use ours mostly for reheating and melting or warming things when baking. Ours needed to be convenient to the table, the cooktop and the baking area. We put it next to the cooktop on the side towards the table. The baking area is on the other side of the cooktop, so it is all on the same wall and close. The micro is not that close tot he fridge, but as I've said before, I'd rather carry the cold dish further than the hot one, and things tend to stop at the island or counter for plating, venting or something anyway. If the kids use the micro to reheat something while I'm cooking, they can do it while staying out of my way, so that was how we decided on our placement.

In your drawing, would people tend to walk behind the range to go in and out the back door a lot? If so, I wouldn't want the MW and WD to open opposite the range. Putting them next tot he range means that hot things are in the same part of the aisle as the person standing at the range cooking, so I'd rather hot things stayed on one side of that aisle than going on both and possibly crossing the aisle. That also makes them very easy to use while cooking. I'd probably place it on the left if you did it to one side of the range because it looks like that would be the clearest traffic path to where you would serve the food.

I know you want storage on either side of the range, but as pointed out above, you don't lose it so much as rearrange it with appliance placement. Storage on your island might be less risky than heated appliances on both sides of the aisle. I also don't know how you plan to use that 12" and angled corner space. If that were built out as a corner pantry, you could use it to store pots and pans as easily as storing food. It could be really handy.

I would not like 2 27" units across that back wall. Assuming you lose both the 36" pantry and the 12" on the corner, you still have to shave at least 3" off each side of the range. I would consider 2 ft minimal and would really prefer 3 ft on at least one side, especially when I have the short end of the island behind me there. That space is golden to me.

You could use one unit on the back wall and another on the side wall, but that doesn't give you a larger pantry without giving up more.

How do you plan to use that space to the side of the fridge? That's your longest counter run and it's away from your prime work areas. Do you bake? If so, you really need that run or the island to have room to work with doughs, spread out for cooling, etc. Would the space set up that way gfor you? If you don't have a purpose for that space, you may waste it and the counter tend to collect clutter.

Another thought here -- what if you made that side wall a tall wall of storage -- pantry, fridge and freezer and opened up your range wall. You could also consider using a rangetop (drawers underneath for pot and pan storage) and wall ovens or a n oven.micro/WD combo also on the side wall.

Always fun to kick around someone else's kitchen -- you aren't constrained by your own realities. LOL Have fun!

Plllog-

We are for sure getting a MW drawer, just not sure which brand. I looked at Wolf yesterday, but I heard Sharp makes them for most other brands. Plus, Sharp is 1/2 the cost of Wolf, and I'm not sure a Wolf MW drawer really matters for resale.

Good points regarding the fridge placement!

I think the 24" would be large enough for us. I like the idea of putting it under a untensil drawer but over another drawer.

Thanks!

If you could put the freezer on the right and the fridge on the left, I wouldn't be totally against the idea of those 2 on the back wall and the pantry on the west...BUT won't it reduce the counter space on each side of your range? I wouldn't want any less width to those counters.

Our WD is in the middle drawer placement. Since my micro is next to my cooktop and I didn't want it under the micro (I didn't want mine that low, but sounds like low is working for you), our WD is in the island opposite the micro. I could only get the 24" WD but it has worked for us. It sounds like it should work for the way you use it mostly too. Holiday dinners tend to push everything to the limits no matter what you have available.

As far as I know, Sharp makes ALL the microwave drawers. I wouldn't pay more for another name on it unless you had an very particular placement and view that really emphasized the differences in trim and it would really bother you.

Lascatx-
I would prefer middle or top drawer palcement, the current situation is not ideal! I'm leaning towards putting it in the island facing the range. I think a 24" WD will work for us just fine.

Do you have a drawer MW? How big is it?

Thanks for the clarification on the MW brands. I almost died when I saw the price on the Wolf!

I have the 24" micro drawer. It is the same micro with less side trim than the 30" drawer. They made the 30" first and showed it stacked with an oven, WD or range --that's apparently how they thought it would sell and why they made 30" fist. I think the 24" has been the more popular model from what I've seen. Mine is the original version, but I understand there is a newer version that is about an inch or so taller. That could make the difference whether certain tall mugs would fit, but most things on plates adn in casseroles - the kinds of things I generally put in a micro, fit fine.

My WD opposite the cooktop works fine for us. I'd rather have the WD there and the micro on the main wall if you could do that.

remodelfla - I know I am hijacking the topic a bit but I couldn't resist. I am right with you on the flip flops. They mulltiply! My daughter is PO'd because they won't let the kids wear them to graduation - hey the gowns are long, the ones she wanted to wear have rhinestones - don't get it. Glad to know we are not the only flip flop fanatics around.

SF, to comment on what you said in another thread, are you doing a prefab wine room or building your own?

(Lynn, is it an insurance issue? They might be concerned about tripping... Or are they just stuffy?)

Lascatz-

I'm pretty sure I'm going to put the MW on the west wall in the base cabinet to the left of the fridge. I'm glad everything fits inthe 24", I was worried about height clearance.

Plllog-
We are gutting and remodeling the entire house, so we are building a room specifically for wine. We have been looking at the Grotto pre-made racking, but the DH is also going to get a custom quote from Grotto and a local source, so he can get all the bells and whistles he wants! If you have any advice it would be greatly appreciated!

Remodelfla and Lynn-
Clearly, I too have a shoe problem! However mine involves anything with a heel!

No advice! I was just being nosy. I was looking at doors the other day and found all these websites with wine fridges that come in walk-in sizes. Some are wood, others are all metal. They have all the machinery in place, seals, etc., but they're functional rather than pretty. When you said "wine room" I thought of them. :)

Another nosy question: Do you have a way to safeguard your bottles during an earthquake?

GE makes one of the pre-fab wine rooms, we originally looked into it for the current house, but decided we would rather have a custom made room. The wine room is going to be downstairs off a hallway that leads the family room. The walls it shares with the hallway will be floor to ceiling glass to break up the monotony of the hallway!

The wine racking will get bolted to the floor, but other then that, just pray! At some point after living in a major earthquake zone, we are literally in a liquidification zone, you just stop worrying about it. There is only so much you can do!

Have you seen QuakeGuardian? I've only seen them on the web and can't decide if it's terrific or crazy. They're these little curly cords attached with a tack to the rack, with a ring that fits over the neck. There's also a tag hanging from the ring. I tend to use friction, but that only goes so far... On the one hand, these aren't cheap (though there's probably a good volume discount for people like you with a whole room), but on the other, it could be worth it. And it's more elegant than bungee cords. :-)

And here I'd been wondering if that rubber matting one puts under carpets would help.

I know a little about wine cellars in earth quake country. I built this 3,000 bottle cellar in a restaurant in Palm Springs. It's gone through a few smaller quakes with no problems. I'm in Los Angeles, Studio City. I know what a real one fells like("94"). I live up in the hills and my street was one of the harder hit areas.

{{gwi:1904037}}

{{gwi:1904039}}{{gwi:1904041}}

This is really the DH's baby. I get my dream kitchen and he gets his wine cellar, a fair trade in my opinion!

I will mentioned 'earthquaking' the wine cellar. He mentioned something about insurance, but I doubt wine is covered in our earthquake insurance policy. I will inquire this evening!

Jdesgin-
That is beautiful!! Too bad you aren't in Northern Cal! If you ever get a chance to go to the Winery Restaurant in Irvine, they have a spectacular cellar as well!

There is a wine bar in 'downtown' Culver City that has a 'tap' for the wine bottles so you can purchase, via a prepaid card, the amount of wine you want. I asked the hubby if we could do that, because I thought it was so neat!