I don't like the isolated cook/prep space nearly as much. It puts cooking, prepping (and also cleanup) far from people at the banquette, which isn't great socially, and you really don't want the cleanup sink and DW that far from the main table.

What's the other space to the right of the kitchen? I can see the top little room is the bathroom, but what's below that? What is that space used for?

I would use one of the other plans, making sure to put the fridge on the right-hand wall, close to the main table, so people can come get stuff without getting in the way of cooking, prep or cleanup and without having to go too far.

The first option seems like it should be my favorite, for best zone separation, but it's not for some reason. Maybe because the aisles are so tight and the seemingly funny fridge location.

I like the 2nd one, but would move the fridge next to the freezer. I'm not sure why there is a cabinet in between, and it'd be better to have it open into the aisle across the way instead of into the peninsula.

In the rest, I really don't like that the oven opens across the entrance by the peninsula end.

I think the first option is still worth tweaking...Give the aisles enough space and maybe swap oven and fridge? I see pluses and minuses to that, though...Hmm.

I've looked at your plans and see pluses and minuses but I also see other options. Are you open to suggestions? If so....

1st question: Are you set on having the banquette in the upper corner of the kitchen? Or would you be open to moving it to the corner closest to the FR? Having the banquette in the upper corner means that all traffic from FR, bedrooms and backyard will go through the working part of the kitchen to get to the table. Yes, they could go through that room (whatever it is) to the right of the kitchen, but would they? They wouldn't in my house ;-) and it would drive me nuts. This might mean giving up the peninsula seating. Is that a must if you have ample - and possibly expandable - table seating?

2nd question: Can you bump a few inches into the room to the right of the kitchen? This wouldn't mean moving a wall, just adding a header and creating a fridge/freezer niche. That would gain space for you to have a full depth fridge/freezer without it eating into the aisles.

As it is, your aisles at 36" are tight for a multi-cook kitchen with an island. Are you dead-set on an island? You can do a narrow one (28") and increase your aisles to 42" and avoid several pinch points. Or you can skip it and instead go with deeper perimeter counters, gaining work space there.

3rd question: Do you have a nice view out the top wall or would you be willing to give a window up here if you gained a very large window to the backyard?

Hi,
Thanks for looking at the layout.

ideagirl2: That space is the hallway to bathroom, playroom, and the stairs to garage. I want to make it into a mudroom hallway to keep us a little more organized and will probably put the family calender/paperwork accumulator there. And I like the fridge next to the table too. My husband thinks it would be better placed further to the right on the wall so he would not have to go around island to get to stove.

rhome410: I think I like the second one best. I will try doing option 1 with a narrower island and maybe cut the corner to see if it opens it up some. I tried swapping the oven and fridge because I really do not like having the fridge on that wall...but then we thought it would be inconvenient getting ingredients together from the pantry and fridge more spread out and the oven would be further from stove. But mostly Mitch does not like the thought of stove opening closer to the dining area. I will also re-do option 2 with fridge freezer together and the pantry cabinets towards the end of the run by the family room.

lisa a: Too open to suggestions and alternatives according to my mom. She can't understand why I haven't decided on a plan months ago and have dozens of different plans I've considered.

Question 1: I don't need the peninsula seating. I just happened to have space for it so added it. Banquette doesn't need to be at it's present location. I started out with the banquette near the family room a zillion iterations ago. But I haven't revisited it recently to check it with the other changes that have happened since then. We don't think we mind moving through the kitchen as long as people aren't traveling behind the actually cooking part. We have tried to pay attention at our current kitchen. We only have 36" aisles to our island which we like. It feels comfortable turning to work from one side to the other. It's ok for people passing behind us at the sink, but we don't like it for anyone trying to pass behind the stove. But then again it's usually just one of us cooking at a time with a helper or two sitting on the counter. But I imagine we will have more cooks later. I should test that out this weekend when we go back to the old house.

Question 2: Yes we can bump out that wall for the fridge. It's not a load bearing wall. I'm interested in the island mostly for the cabinet space and landing for the fridge/oven (for the non-isolated work space plan. I think much of the prep will be done in the L area. Deep perimeter counters are an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that. But I assume from a price perspective it would be more expensive than using stock cabinets, but maybe worth examining. I will narrow the island for now.

Question 3: I do like the view on that top wall. There is no window there now. We actually thought we had decided on a plan when I decided I really wanted a window on that wall. That's when I switched the banquette from the family room side to that wall. But that is also before I looked at all these great pictures of kitchen range/cooktops with windows on either side of them. The utilities are actually on the outside wall for 43" on the upper left corner. When the electrician comes this week I will ask him how difficult/pricey it would be to move them over.

Great...after boys go to bed tomorrow night I'll try incorporating the ideas you've given me and I'll post them back up here.

Exciting. :-)

Thanks again.

Here we go,

I finally redrew the two paths with the suggestions. Plus added a first attempt at lisa a's suggestion.

First is the window one. I made the island smaller and moved the refrigerator together. I tried putting the oven next to the doorway and then the refrigerator was blocking the entryway. And I was thinking we have the fridge open a lot more often than the oven. So I switched it back. I swapped the sink and dishwasher. Don't know if I like the thought of the dishwasher being in between the stove and the sink, but it did let me center the sink on a window. I also shortened the bar counter to 8 ft.

Next is the isolated cooking layout. I tried switching the oven and the fridge and I just wasn't feeling it. The cooktop seemed too tight. But maybe with the rest of the peninsula for loading plates and prep it would be adequate? Anyways, I just narrowed the island and cut the island corner. And shortened the bar to 8 ft.

Here's my attempt at moving the banquette. I like where the appliances are in relation to each other and the table. But I'm not sure how to transition from the cabinets to the banquette. Also you were talking about making the banquette more expandable. I wasn't sure how to accomplish that.

Thanks so much. I'm very grateful to have some feedback instead of creating all these different plans and having no certainty if they are functional even. With the input of this community I feel hope that we will actually have a final floorplan in the near future!

Here's an idea I played with last week that I tweaked just now to shrink the aisles form 42" to 36" (my best guess since I've edited so much, I can' read the graph lines anymore). I also was able to add a window on the top wall by shifting form a pantry cab on the top wall to a corner cab (was able to shift the fridge and DO down the wall).

{{gwi:1890921}}

I moved the banquette out of the kitchen completely, facing the FR. This way if you ever do have a larger crowd, you can turn the table 90 degrees, add more chairs and either a table leaf or another table added on, and seat a larger crowd.

The island was 52" x 48" island but will be a bit larger with smaller aisles. You may need to clip the corner near the pantry. As I wrote above, I can't tell dimensions since I can't read the graph lines anymore.

I first had the fridge closer to the left of the DO but then switched it, thinking that the top left corner would make a nice baking center for your husband. It certainly would be nice to roll out dough and such in front of a window.

Since there's a prep sink on the island, it's not an issue, IMO, to shift the fridge down. In all of your plans, as best as I can tell, the island acts as a barrier island between fridge, sink and range. Your plans could definitely use a prep sink on your island.

The other benefit of putting fridge next to pantry near the door to the playroom is that snack-hungry kids won't have to pass by the ovens nor would they pass cook top or ovens when coming in from outside - the banquette directs them to the outside of the cooking zone.

If you want, you can add 2 seats at the island. Might need to tweak size but can be done.

Now that I know I can recess into the room to the right, I have another idea that I'll post later.

Here's the other idea, still fairly rough.

{{gwi:1890922}}

I added a small walk-in pantry recessed 3' into the mudroom and 4' wide. I moved the DO to the end of that cabinet run on the top wall, baking center between oven and fridge. Added corner windows, shifted range a bit, changed uppers around it. It's not centered. This bothers some but not others, don't know where you fall in that camp.

As I wrote, these are rough ideas, don't know if you'll like them since they all involve moving the banquette out of the kitchen. If that situation works, then we can work on the rest of the space.

We like the way moving the banquette and the sink/dw to the corner and peninsula helps the flow in the kitchen and for dirty dishes. I need to look more carefully and see if cabinet space is adequate.

I forgot to mention one of the parameters. On the wall where the refrigerator and DO are, there has to be a 4 foot stretch of wall according to the building designer. The first of the ideas meets that. I forgot to ask the electrician about moving the utilities from that upper left corner. He'll be back on Sunday.

Mitch likes the idea of the pantry bumping into the mudroom area, but it would have to be more shallow as there is only 2 feet on that side to bump into before eating into what I perceive to be the natural walkway.

You're right...the next thing is to determine what we think about the banquette moved to the outside.

I'd originally thought of it as a place that people would sit on the bench and interact with cook(s). With the banquette on outside the bench faces away from kitchen.

However I do like that it has the option for expanding when facing out. And it does seem to make it a little more like a hybrid between a separate dining space and eat-in kitchen rather than having just an eat-in kitchen with no formal dining space.

For the short term I like the thought of the tucked in banquette is appealing. The boys are easily distracted by toys in the family room while they eat. I was thinking I could trap them in the banquette during meals by having my husband and me on the ends. :-) But I know that's a stage that won't last forever.

anyone have anything in particular they take into consideration for banquette placement? Not sure how to negotiate online forums. Is it best to ask that in separate post?

Thanks!

Lisa's banquettes are more flexible and have more breathing room.

In your isolated cooking area plan, think about how much you'll be circling the island to fetch things from the fridge while you're cooking. Unless you're way more organized than I am and always get everything before you start in. But, wait...It looks like maybe you have a fridge in the island?

I wouldn't cut the corner of the island, I would, instead, get rid of the diagonal front on the corner cabinet. That gives you better floor space/movement, and more counter frontage. A 90 degree door opens to give you better access to the deep cabinet, too.

I like the stove on the upper wall, but any time you put the fridge on the other side of the island from the sink, you'll need a prep sink to keep from running laps and cursing the island.

Lisa's plans are NICE. The island is so nice with all the room and the nicely placed prep sink. :) I think I might center the stove behind the island, and I'm not sure a corner sink is necessary, if you don't want it.

Rhome, do you mean move the clean-up sink to the peninsula? I thought about that but then kind of wanted a little more space between it and diners to avoid someone getting splashed by accident. But that could be solved by putting in extra deep cabs for the peninsula or at a deeper counter on top of normal depth cabs.

Anyhoo, I drew it up as well as centered the range on the island as you suggested. I scooted the fridge over to create a baking center next to the DOs. I'm estimating 24" between fridge and corner (need sufficient space to swing doors open to access bins, etc) and 36" between fridge and DO. You *might* be able to enlarge the baking center a few inches but you don't want it so tight that fridge or freezer doors hit the side counter when open. I also swapped the pantry and doorway and put in a pocket door for the pantry.

{{gwi:1890923}}

(and thanks, rhome! And yes, I got the hint about the prep sink placement ;-) ).

Lisa, I figured you were enlarging the splash zone depth with the corner sink, but could see it wasn't a necessity if it wasn't desired. Either way is nice. I like how this gives the range more room and there are multiple and roomy prep areas. Also, can add windows if fewer uppers are needed.

Still like the pantry layout, too.

megypt, I just noticed the comment about how far into the mudroom you can go. If 2' is the max, then pantry cabinets inset into the wall might be the better way to go instead of a walk-in pantry. Not sure how well a 2' deep pantry works for a walk-in.

If you want a place for people to sit and interact with you as you cook, add stools to the island. You can put 2 on the pantry-side of the island like this:

{{gwi:1890924}}

I shrunk the island to increase the aisle width (36" isn't enough room to pass behind seaters) and added a 15" overhang (drawing not quite to scale).

If your questions about a banquette aren't about placement but about size, etc, then yes, start a new thread. If you're asking about placement in your kitchen, you can either ask them here or start a new thread but link to this thread so that people can see the space.

As for size, etc, I gave you an 8' x 42" table so that you can seat 8 people. You need to allow 24" per person and extra at each end for the diner at the end of the table for adequate plate room and leg room. If you can expand it to 4' wide, that would be better. The banquette is 24" deep to allow for either an angled wood back and pillows or a padded back. The table can overlap the bench by 6" IIRC.

My two cents' worth: If this were my only table, I'd rather it face out from the kitchen, then in where the dinner mess will be.

Mitch and I were just marveling at how total strangers are figuring out how to work in a baking center for him. This is so awesome - thanks!

I'm a little slow, we are back and forth between the new and old house and don't have internet access or computer access all the time.

Here's the general layout of lisa's idea. The window by oven may need to be smaller and the fridge is a little too close to the corner...only 21" vs 24" but I figured those can be ironed out if we decide to pursue the outside banquette option.

I also redid the interior banquette with the doorway a little further out and 90degree corners. Put a prep sink at end of peninsula and made island smaller.

Still haven't decided about interior vs exterior banquette.

But there are things I really like about Lisa's idea. The most significant being that I really like having the one wall with no cabinetry. It widens the kitchen and gives it "breathing space." It also gives me a wall where I can put our family planning calender and some other family things to post on the wall. I never would have thought of insetting the pantry cabinet. (by the way...I had too many feet in that hallway. It is a foot more narrow than the drawing. I need to redo that.)

The sink stove and fridge all seem closer to each other.

And I like that deeper island. And yes I am one of those people who appreciates that it can be centered on the cooktop. Not necessary, but I like it better. I can picture how pretty pendants over the island might frame the cooktop.

I also like the fact that the table can be extended out more easily because there are no cabinets across from it. we just put a banquette into the playroom today and I see why you made the table longer than I had. The people on the ends get crowded in otherwise. In fact I'm wondering if we do keep the banquette on the inside if I should forgo the cabinets across from the banquette or make them less deep or just put a narrow furniture buffet there.

I had an interesting question come up when I was thinking about adding seating to the island. We have island seating opposite the cooktop in our current kitchen, but I usually sit on the couch which is in line the cabinet run with the cooktop. I just assumed I sat there vs the island because the couch is more comfy than the chair. But it occurs to me that it might be because I am to the side of Mitch when he cooks vs facing his back if I'm at the island. I had initially conceived of the banquette as my couch equivalent. But if it's actually the orientation to the cook...that wouldn't be the place I hang out.

Which did lead me to decide if the banquette is outside the kitchen I'd probably rather have a dining table. But the space is probably too small. Or maybe instead of cabinet banquette...a freestanding bench.

I shortened the kitchen a little...

I also realized that one of the reasons I liked the position of the inside banquette is because I can see the swimming pools from there. I may be able to see the pools from the exterior banquette, but would have to cut a couple trees down.

Just wanted to update what we were thinking. I'm waiting to hear back from all the adults that will be in the house and see what their thoughts are on the inside/outside banquette and the flow of the two plans.

We finally decided that although we like Lisa's kitchen better, we like more how the interior banquette divides up sitting space in the house even if we can't accomplish some of the nice advantages of Lisa's kitchen.

So we would like to concentrate on making the interior banquette with the refrigerator on the interior wall as good as we can get it.

I think what we decided from the process is that we do need to prepare for another dining space other than the banquette. Making the island smaller to make it feel less congested. And adding the prep sink.

Thanks so much for your efforts and making up the plans. Although we didn't use them it definitely was helpful in clarifying some issues. And it accomplished the goal of choosing which path to pursue.

Here's what I'm thinking is the new starting point.