SHOP PRODUCTS
Houzz Logo Print
jberg_gw

One last time? - layout for new construction

jberg
14 years ago

I really appreciate all the ideas in this forum and comments regarding layout design. I like looking through the finished kitchens, I hope mine will look as well.

I am posting a picture of the latest revision in our layout:

{{gwi:1890405}}

The area to the right of the range will be my baking storage with drawers below and my KitchenAid on the counter. I will use the island for most prep, but have ruled out prep sink - one cook and I will have the full surface - 60" x 48". I have two 30" and two 15" cabinets on each side of the island with a 15" overhang for seating. The 30" DB on the range side will be used for pots and pans storage and the 15" DB for utensils/silverware. The opposite side will have a 15" DB for desk (lowered counter next to pantry) and a 30" for misc - wraps, etc?

I will put the trashcan in a cabinet to the left of the sink. The glass front cabinets are for glasses (next to frig) and dinnerware (above DW), the corner cabinet will house bowls and an appliance garage for toaster, can opener, etc. Lower corner will probably be overflow appliances - wafflemaker, crockpot, etc.

Any other suggestions? The window size with sink and the range placement stay. The area is 15' 8" wide and 14' 9" from outside edges. There is a 3 foot doorway by the pantry, almost 5' between frig and pantry, 4 1/2' from island to sink, 4' from island to range, and 3 1/2' from island to pantry. The dining area - primarily table/chairs is behind the island. The room is vaulted and semi-open to family/living room.

We are a 2-person family with occasional large family gatherings - all informal buffet style. House is new construction - basement walls are just going in, with a cabin-style feel on the outside, very open on the inside with rustic touches in flooring, trim, and cabinets.

Comments (17)

  • Buehl
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It looks nice and I like the fact that the two seats are in the kitchen but not in the way! I'm glad you didn't try to force seating on the pantry side and that you didn't skimp on the overhang...both good calls! And what a great window!

    Is that a pass through I see on the left? What's on the other side of it?

    Are the two counters under the pass through two different levels (or is it just a glitch in the software you're using)?

    What's b/w the refrigerator & pantry? Is it a doorway? Is it used much (i.e., a main entrance into the house or through the house)?


    OK, the layout...

    First...do you have a "flat" layout to-scale? It's easier to critique a layout if you have measurements and can see the entire layout (i.e., nothing hidden by walls or doors; easier to tell if the island is a "barrier island", see doorways & where they lead, etc.)

    Second...prep on the island...I hope it works for you that way. Since there's no water source on the island or right near the range side, you will probably have to make a concerted effort to move everything to the island to prep. Eventually you will establish a habit. But, b/f that habit is ingrained, you will have a tendency to prep next to the sink...either b/w the refrigerator & sink or sink & range.

    Third..the DW will be in the way b/c it's b/w the sink & range and b/w the sink & island (range side) where, once you get there, you'll be doing most of your prepping...right in the middle of the work flow for prepping to cooking when you need water (cleaning/rinsing veggies, peeling potatoes, filling/draining pots, etc.).

    I understand why you put the DW there (b/c more storage on that side for dishes, etc.), but, if it were me, I'd rather have the DW on the other side of the sink and have to take the extra couple of steps to put things away if I had to. You do have at least one upper cabinet right there and you could store dishes in drawers in the island. Put in drawers on the end that open toward the sink & DW. Other drawers/cabinets can still be installed facing the range & pantry.

    Trash pullout...having the trash pullout to the left of the sink (in the current layout) will only benefit the cleanup zone...it will pretty much be inaccessible to the island prep zone and the cooking zone...the two zones that use it the most. (I found this out the hard way!) The ideal location for it would be either in the island facing the range or to the right of the sink. Either location will make it accessible to all three main zones....Prep, Cooking, Cleanup. Personally, I'd prefer the island location b/c that puts it right there for prepping & cooking, but YMMV.

    What are your aisle widths? For a one-person kitchen 36" is probably OK (except maybe on the pantry side) but if you have help in the kitchen during your family get-togethers (and who doesn't...even if you don't want it!) narrow aisles may be a problem.

    Where will you eat your meals? Is there a table in the kitchen area? A DR off to the side? When you have family get-togethers, where will everyone eat? If they will spread all over the house, you might consider extending the counter over the pass through...maybe even past it w/a small overhang. That way you could stage food there for the buffets & have two sides access it. The counter covering the top of the pass through would protect it from food, etc.

  • holligator
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's very attractive, and I love the large window! It looks roomy but not too big to be efficient. However, I do see some things that I would not want if it were my kitchen.

    How deep is that pantry cabinet? It looks at least 24" deep. Is that a full-height pull-out? If not, you may want to make it shallower. My pantry cabinets are 18" and they are a little too deep. Things can still get lost in the back. I'm sure 15" would have been sufficient for my storage needs.

    I completely agree with Buehl that, with both your water source and trash on the perimeter, you are unlikely to find the island useful for most prep work. It may still work well for some jobs, but for regular stuff like washing and peeling or chopping vegetables, the work tends to get done near the sink and trash. With an aisle of 54"(!), taking veggies from washing at the sink to chopping at the island just doesn't seem efficient at all.

  • Related Discussions

    Last new one to share, NEW kittens!

    Q

    Comments (13)
    wow, what some cute kittens. I have always liked orange kittens.There use to be a stray tom cat come by my house years ago and he would stop at my back door and meow,and I would get some thing to feed it and I called it MORRIS after the TV Cat commercial,he finally quit coming,and have no idea where he went. Your seedlings are very pretty. Jean
    ...See More

    one last attempt at a new kitchen layout

    Q

    Comments (18)
    I have an island that's about the same size as yours, with seating for 4 (5 could, and have, fit). My dining room table is not 6 feet away in the same room. We love it. We usually eat at the island. It's a casual, comfortable spot. But, when we don't eat at the island, there are usually guests. My dining room table seats up to 10. There is usually tons of food, because I like to cook and guess where all of the stuff that won't fit on the table goes? Yep, the island. It also makes a spectacular and easily accessed buffet, or a "kids table" at Thanksgiving. There is also no formal dining room in my house--the island and the table to the side, that's it. We are pretty casual bunch. No regrets here, we like it. I like backs on my island chairs because I think it's more comfortable that way. To each their own, right? My $.02, too. :-) Cj
    ...See More

    One last layout question....I promise!

    Q

    Comments (15)
    Hahahahahaha! Thanks Buehl and Rhome (and you Bmore for the observation). Like Buehl, it is the set up I have now and it's one of the things I was determined to change because I felt squished in the corner when putting dishes away. But, it's the fact that I could put everything away, including in the lazy susan, without moving that made me think I wouldn't like taking three steps to get to the hutch (which is 5 ft directly across from the DW). I can't think of a time when I have the DW open now when I'm at the range or while I'm prepping. Having said that, I do like the original layout better but think this one might have better storage options. So, here's the conundrum: new layout puts the DW in a less convenient spot but may give better storage and certainly puts the trash cabinet in an optimum place. It also requires less steps to put dishes away although glasses and cups will still go in hutch so maybe that's not as helpful as I think. old layout has better DW placement, lousy trash cabinet placement (but I can put a small bin unders the sink for food waste) and may look better. Which would you choose? (I'm going to be a new woman when I place this cabinet order on Monday!!!!) Thanks again for your thoughts.
    ...See More

    One last request for layout feedback - dishwasher in peninsula

    Q

    Comments (24)
    The problem with planning to do all your prep on the island is that it's too far away from the range plus it will entail quite a bit of zone-crossing (crossing the Cleanup Zone when moving b/w the Prep & Cooking Zones). Most people find they prep where (1) there's a water source very close by and (2) near the range, usually b/w the water source and range. Can the DR door be moved? Do you have a refrigerator picked out? Most standard-depth refrigerators are closer to 36" deep when you include the handles. Then, you must include the air space/clearance required behind it. The final depth of a standard depth refrigerator can be over 36" in many cases. I'm asking about this b/c you show a 30" deep refrigerator...the depth of most counter-depth refrigerators. Could you recess the refrigerator into the wall at least 3"? That would help. (If it's recessed into the wall but not so far as into the room behind it, you should gain 3" or so.) If you can move the DR doorway...how about something like one of these? [Corner sink...to get a sink bigger than 24 or 25 inches, yes, you would need a 42" sink base. Did your DH say why he doesn't want a corner sink?]
    ...See More
  • jberg
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK - right after I posted this, I saw a picture of sooner's hutch/sideboard and redid my plan - again! I then changed the locations you both suggested - DW and trash. I went to the lumberyard to get a prelim price on cabinets (about $11,000)- the pantry only comes in 12 and 24 depth- should I do top/bottom cabinets instead, so I don't have so much depth? I need something to place my desk counter next to. Redid while posting - and I think I may have a winner!
    {{gwi:1890406}}
    {{gwi:1890407}}
    {{gwi:1890408}}
    {{gwi:1890409}}
    {{gwi:1663735}}
    I could always change island layout to include trash bin. I will probably use both counter areas for prep, and the island for my baking to cool - will also be great for food and family get-togethers. Should I make the island larger?

    Another question - should I keep same counter surface for all areas? I found a couple of Wilsonart high definition, one is Mystic Gemstone the other is Deepstar Fossil. I also like Butterrum Granite. I don't want it to appear too busy, but just add some interest.

    The opening (1/2 wall) on the left is so I can keep in contact with my DH when I am at the computer/desk area, so the height is lower and next to the opening from the kitchen/dining to family/living area. The extra photos show the space a little better and I included the floor plan.The door by the laundry leads to the garage.

  • jberg
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I thought I would post the views from our windows, so you could get a feel for the property and why I want to make sure I get this right!

    From the kitchen - a few of the trees were removed for the driveway which passes in front.

    {{gwi:1890410}}

    View to the southwest from the rest of the house - we have sliders in dining and our BR, large picture window in LR. Why we fell in love with the property! (Most of the land you see is ours. :)

  • remodelfla
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love the idea of the opening at the desk area. The one thing I personally wouldn't care for are the cabs down to the counter on either side of the range. It looks like you have ample storage and I just dont' see the neccesity in taking up very valuable real estate by the range. Especially since you said you wanted to make the area to the right of the range your baking area. What purpose/function were the cabs to the counter for?

  • jberg
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The original purpose was an small appliance garage in the corner and to "finish" off the end of the run of cabinets. I think you are right - I can store most of the appliances in the lower corner cab and the layout doesn't look so chopped up. Another look at the space:

    {{gwi:1890412}}

  • holligator
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What a gorgeous view! Yep, it's clear why you would want to emphasize that.

    Here are just a few more things to consider...

    First, although I didn't like the cabinet to the counter in the corner, I did like the one on the end. I liked the "finished" look it gave to that run. I would, however, have the end of that run of cabinets align with the end of the pantry on the other side. I'm not usually big on symmetry, but I think it would make sense for you. The space to the right of the stove run seems like wasted space and I think it would look nice to extend it a couple of feet and have the cabinet to the counter at the end. You could have a little more counter top. Plus, a pantry dedicated to your baking goods would be really convenient there.

    Second, I would consider lengthening your island to extend a bit closer to the sink. Four and a half feet is a very wide aisle and, for me anyway, would be very uncomfortable. I would go with a maximum of 42" there. Extending the island that way would give you a more comfortable distance between your sink and prep area and give you a larger and more useful island. I would also reconsider the prep sink in the island. I use mine all the time and it makes my island so much more useful, even when it becomes a buffet for family gatherings--that's where I put the ice, and I set up the drinks and cups next to it. Mine was a remodel and getting the prep sink involved digging a trench in my slab to run the plumbing, but there is no way I would go without if I were to do this again.

    Finally, think about putting your desk at counter height. We did this and find it very functional. I have a counter-height stool there that matches our other stools and serves as an extra island stool when we need it. In your case, your desk could then serve as a buffet for hors dâoeuvres for the family room, keeping at least some of the crowd out of the kitchen during those large family gatherings (that you're sure to have more of when this beautiful place is finished!).

    Did I say "finally"? Oh well, I thought of one more thing! This may have come up on your previous thread, but you might want to plan on some sort of filler (maybe even a narrow pull-out of some sort) between your refrigerator and the wall. Most fridge doors require space to be able to open fully, and if they can't open fully, the drawers can't come out and the shelves can't be removed for cleaning.

  • jberg
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Everyone has such good ideas! You are correct - I thought the space to the right would be great for baking staples. Originally the space to the right of the stove was for our Hoosier (1907 zinc top), but I am moving that next to the stairway. I took all the ideas in consideration and came up with this. Now to talk DH into putting that cabinet next to the frig.
    {{gwi:1890413}}

    The island is just a little narrower than previous 3 1/2', but longer - 6' and there is 4' between counter and buffet/pantry.

  • Buehl
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Also...make your refrigerator look "built-in"

    If you keep it w/the cabinet to the left (maybe a 12" deep Utility cabinet for broom, dustpan, etc.?), then

    * Put a 3/4" finished end panel on the right side of the refrigerator that's as deep as the carcass/box of the refrigerator (if it's a cabinet-depth that would mean somewhere b/w 24" & 27"). The door(s) will extend past the panels so you can still open the doors fully.

    * Put a full-depth cabinet above the refrigerator


    If you don't keep that cabinet on the left or put in base + upper cabinet, then do the same as above except put end panels on both sides of the refrigerator.


    As Holligator said, if you don't have any cabinets on the left, then you will need filler to allow the refrigerator door to open fully (not just the 90o needed to get most things out)...for the greater angle that will be needed to open and/or remove drawers or bins. The refrigerator door must clear the doorway trim around and then some. You'll probably need at least 6" of filler. The cabinet idea is a much better idea.


    For that cabinet on the left, depending on your cabinet/door style (partial overlay/full overlay/inset) you may need filler b/w the cabinet & refrigerator to ensure the cabinet will open. The best way to accomplish this is to put a 3/4" end panel on both sides of the refrigerator. If you have partial overlay you probably won't need that end panel/filler.

    However, you will still need filler to the left of the cabinet. Right now, the door trim will be in the way of it opening. You will need enough filler to clear that door trim...but it will be much less than you would need for the refrigerator...only an inch or two.

  • rosie
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your view is truly lovely! If possible, and you're extremely close to it apparently, how about lining up your kitchen windows, island, and doors to the porch as a little homage to it?

    I notice your family (garage) entry is very, very close to your pleasant front entry hall. How about making a slight reconfiguration so you guys can come and go to and from it, instead of through a utility room? You'd benefit from a charming, gracious entry much more than guests will.

  • needsometips08
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your view is stunning!

    Do you live in the Shire? :-)

  • jberg
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you for your kind comments. Is this Heaven? No - it's Iowa. (Field of Dreams - Kevin Costner). From the Indians - Iowa means "Beautiful Land." Extreme weather, though.

    My DH is almost ready to thow out me and my computer! But I do think he likes my latest creation - hopefully it will pass. I realize the island is somewhat of a barrier - but I can work around it, I don't go the frig that many times when I cook, tend to get everything out first. Anyway, I could use the exercise - that way I can have an extra cookie!! :-)

    For your comments - Question - I want to use butterum granite (formica) on most surfaces - really goes great with cabinets, floor and walls. I would like to complement with a darker? surface for island and desk area? Any suggestions?

    {{gwi:1890414}}

    The garage/utility entery is designed for living in the country and the messiness that goes with having that nice view! We also will be able to view all the wildlife from our back porches - deer, turkey, coyotes, and eagles in winter. The big window in the kitchen is to enjoy the trees to the north and be able to spot our friends and family - something our last house did not provide.

  • amyleef
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your kitchen looks great. I also just posted a layout question:-- I will also have a similiar view!!

    http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg062249519660.html

    What program did you use to create this layout or did you have a designer do it?

  • lascatx
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like turning the seating on the island to gain the view. The fridge move places it closer to your eating areas (island and table) and it isn't really any worse for the cooking/baking areas.

    I know you said you had decided against a prep sink. If you bake a lot, or even cook a lot, consider things like cracking eggs and having goo on your hands or having bread dough on your fingers. That sink may not seem that far away when your hands are clean, but when you prepare a recipe where you have to crack 6 or 8 eggs, it is so nice to have a sink (or trash) to toss the shells in and a place right there to wash you hands. It is a lot easier to walk around the island and gather the butter, milk and eggs -- or the veggies and meat or whatever while your hands are clean and your are about to start working with them than it is when you are up to your elbows in them. My island prep sink is right behind my cooktop and baking counter, and I absolutely love it and use the heck out of it. Just make sure -- it's not so easy to add after the fact.

  • jberg
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    After I posted the picture, DH suggested making the cabinets around the frig white, so that is the latest version.

    Amy - my program is an older version of 3D Architect by Broderbund.Very easy, but does not have all the bells and whistles of newer software. I also have to print/scan the floorplan in order to post. The kitchen views can be saved into bitmap files. I think I worked with 5 or 6 house plans before we finally settled on this one. DH has been in construction for over 30 years - 2nd generation carpenter.

  • User
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Each redo is an improvement! But, you are REALLY going to regret not putting a prep sink on that island. You're planning on doing all of your prep there, but it won't happen there without a water source. You'll end up in the corners of the kitchen on either side of the sink instead, and you'll be fighting dirty dishes in the sink when you want to wash off some lettuce, or wash the flour off your hands after rolling out biscuits, or need to fill a pot with water to boil eggs. It's not just the added steps with the island being a barrier, you're decreasing the functionality of your kitchen. Either put a prep sink on the island, or eliminate the island, because it won't get used the way you envision it. And that would be a shame, after all the work you've put into it.

    I rarely ever am this emphatic about suggestions for layout decisions, but this is one I feel very strongly about, and I just want to shout, "Trust me, I'm a designer! I do this every day for a living!" LOL! (And I absolutely detest that know it all attitude behind that statement.)

  • jberg
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The jury is still out on the prep sink - but I honestly don't think I will use it and would like more counter space. So, I redid my layout again - about the only things which haven't changed are the location of the sink, range, window, and desk/counter.

    I moved the frig so the island is not a barrier to the range. The white cabinets will be storage for dishes, placemats, and cutlery. I created an L eating counter with 15 & 18 inch overhangs.
    {{gwi:1890415}}

    Any more thoughts?

    I will be ordering the cabinets as soon as they come on sale! :-) I also need to find a countertop to go with the Pearl Maple cabinets.

Sponsored
Hope Restoration & General Contracting
Average rating: 4.7 out of 5 stars35 Reviews
Columbus Design-Build, Kitchen & Bath Remodeling, Historic Renovations