Another snafuu--any carpenters/ceiling experts out there?

14 years ago

I've been up all night fretting about the latest problem in our kitchen remodel.

By way of background, our house is old-ish, and the new kitchen is a combo of the old kitchen, a butler's pantry, and a den. I understand that the house has "settled."

New problem--the ceiling height is off by over 1" from one end to the other. The crown moulding looks crazy in the area where it sits on the light board:

You can see how the moulding is about 1" apart from the lightboard on the left and about 1/8" apart on the right.

Here's a close up of the left,

and the right...

Please help! I'm really upset about this. Probably more so than I should be, but this remodel has really done a number on me.

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Comments (19)

remodelfla
14 years ago
OK... I had to go back and forth 3x to see what you were referring to. But now that I see it, can't you're carpenter just trim the top of the moulding (to fit your ceiling) on an angle so when you look at the face of it it'll be even? I'm certainly no carpenter but it seems to make sense.
ccoombs1
14 years ago
Oh.....NOW I see it!! That is really bad. Remodelfla....it's not at the top of the crown....it's at the bottom. There is a very small space....maybe 1/4" at one end of the crown and at least 1" at the other. That looks REALLY crooked. But let me ask you....are you 100% sure that light box was put up straight? It almost looks to me like it may be sloping down from right to left. Put a level on it first, just to be sure before we try to figure this out.
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ebse
Original Author
14 years ago
Yes it is definitely the ceiling, not the light box that is crooked. I took the picture at an angle, that's why it appears skewed.

I measured several points on the ceiling, and we've determined that the ceiling on the left of the new room (where pantry used to be) is 1" higher than at the right of the room (where the old kitchen was). Here's a pic of the whole thing:

The pantry used to be where the tall cabinet and fridge is, and the kitchen was to the right of the fridge through the far right corner. The ceilings were different heights, so maybe that is part of the problem?

The carpenters actually did scribe the moulding in the middle to accomodate for a curve in the ceiling, but the problem seems to be the overall difference in height from one part to the next.
guvnah
14 years ago
Our last house was a 1910 farmhouse - not a square wall in the place, so I know what you mean. What worked best for us was to pick the dominant line & square to it.

In this case, I would either cheat the right side of the light box down or choose a different piece of trim (probably flat) that could be scribed to the ceiling keeping the trim parallel to the window box.

Neither would be "perfect" but either would be less noticeable IMO.
ci_lantro
14 years ago
Sorta' what guvnah said, instead of cheating the light box down on the right side, I'd try using a wider board that the crown is attached to and treat it like a valance. The valance would hide the line of the light box behind and could be adjusted so the crown is equidistant across, relative to the valance.

I think that would minimize the discrepancy but it might still look too weird. In which case it might end up being best to scrap the light box idea and use flush or pendant lights in that spot so your eye is drawn away from the problem area.
msgreatdeals
14 years ago
I'm dealing the the same issue as you can see in the picture. My home was built in 1990. My installer is going to float out the ceiling (like adding frosting to a cake to make it even) He already added that new piece to the upper doorway for it.
{{!gwi}}
lesmis
14 years ago
Ebse, I can see exactly what you are talking about. What sort of trim will be going around the window? Since that is a focal point area because of the windows I would want to figure something out as well. Having said all that though, do you think it's so noticeable because there's nothing else there right now? Meaning, that once everything else is in, the other trim is in and painted, all the other things to draw the eye away, that it may not need to be perfect? Maybe try and see if they couldn't drop the trim a little and make it closer to even and then caulk it to the ceiling on the one end? We have several areas in our kitchen where the ceiling wasn't even close to level and they had to run the trim "uphill" or "downhill" as my cabinet guy liked to call it. When nothing else was in here to look at I hated it, thinking it was so noticeable, but now that every thing is finished I don't even see it. In your case I would want some adjustment though since it is in a very prominent area that will get a lot of attention as people look at your beautiful new windows! You kitchen is looking wonderful btw! Sorry I wish I could be more helpful!

Here is one cabinet with the trim going "uphill"

Another spot where the ceiling wasn't level and trim had to compensate

Kat :)
ebse
Original Author
14 years ago
All good suggestions. And, what do you think of this one--say we dropped the light board down about 2" and scribe the crown to the ceiling. Then, instead of crown/light board difference being 3/4" to 1/4", we are looking at 2 3/4 to 2 1/4, which might fool the eye a bit.

THANKS for helping me with this.
brickeyee
14 years ago
There is no way to hide some of the variation old houses have without tearing everything out.

There are 'tricks' that can help hide things.

Changes in the size of narrow areas (a 1/2 inch flat that varies by 1/4 inch is easy to detect.
A 2 inch flat that varies by 1/4 inch is much harder to detect.

You have an especially bad combination of crown molding and wall area.

There are a bunch of options:

-scribed the molding to absorb the change at the ceiling,

-live with the change in the height below the molding

-tear out the ceiling drop area and put it back in with enough slope to make the molding and area below uniform

-Use wider molding to try and hide the variation

-probably others I cannot think of at the moment.

It almost looks like the molding is not even at the top.
The caulk joints at the ends do not appear to be the same width.
If the drop area was added, I would ask why it was not adjusted to produce a uniform vertical dimension, even if out of level.
The variation would not show if the ceiling was slightly off level over that span if the trim appeared uniform and the reveal below was uniform.
boxerpups
14 years ago
Ebse,
The last idea you came up with is the best.
Most New England homes are crooked. (Not to judge NE homes,
just saying that this is common) Molding is often used to
hide some of these flaws.

We had a similar issue and had to line up to the dominate
line on our Crown molding. There was not a light box issue.
This can be solved with more ease than the sink trim.
Thinking of you as you get through this.
~boxerpups
Buehl
14 years ago
This is why our crown molding is in 3 pieces...the middle piece is the "filler" piece & it's what changes due to ceiling discrepancies. The pieces that directly abut the cabinet and ceiling are the same everywhere. The filler piece is a plain flat piece, the other pieces are where you get the design detailing.

This probably doesn't help you now, but hopefully it will for others.

For the problem at hand, how would you feel about tearing out the current crown molding and replacing it with a shorter molding that doesn't reach the ceiling so the molding remains the same throughout the kitchen? Probably have it approx 2" or more shorter so the difference b/w the "openings" isn't as noticeable. The bigger the gap b/w the ceiling & molding, the less noticeable the differences will be. I know it means a lot of rework & reordering, but I don't think you're going to find a simple, cheap alternative that looks good....
nkkp
14 years ago
I would consider adding a piece of wood at the bottom that was pie shaped to account for the slope. I would start with around a 1" piece on the left and angle it to a 2" piece (or whatever is needed to level it) on the right. That will make it appear level when looking at it from the front. You would want the new piece to be large enough to hide the lights (that's why I started with a 1" piece and grew it larger). (If you see part of one light and not part of another it will just create a new issue.) When you look up at the lights from under them you would see the difference, but atleast this way once you fill, sand, and paint the seam it will appear straight when looking at it from the front.
rubyfig
14 years ago
Another vote for the last option, and I agree with Kat on her point about the window trim. If you keep the color of the moulding the same as the box, you won't notice (unless you are looking for it).
Buehl
14 years ago
I misunderstood...I thought you were concerned about it everywhere....including over the cabinets....but it appears you're not.

I see 2 different issues...it looks like the crown is already scribed to the ceiling in the middle of the light rail...that's actually what I noticed immediately. I didn't notice the bottom piece until later. Your second issue is the bottom piece.

There's nothing you can do about the scribed molding now, but I agree w/you about dropping the light rail down on the right side so it appears the same. You may have to replace that piece of wood w/a thicker one to make it work, though. This actually will help w/something else I noticed... It may be the angle of the picture, but it looks like the light rail is higher above the window on the right than on the left. I'm guessing it IS higher b/c the window is probably level while the ceiling is not. Dropping the light rail so it's all the same height will also fix the noticeable difference concerning the height above the window.
ebse
Original Author
14 years ago
Yes, all excellent suggestions!

Kat--your trim looks fabulous, I wouldn't be able to tell, probably even if I was looking for it. You (and your carpenters) did a fantastic job. I also take comfort in the fact that, as you said, once there's a nice backsplash (yet to be chosen), counters and light fixtures, might not be as big of a deal.

Buehl--No, you are right. I am concerned with everywhere, including over the cabinets, but the problem with the light board is that the sink area is intended to be a focal point in the room. So, I think the issue is most noticible there. Also--your trim idea is a GREAT one that I will file away for my next project (if there ever is one).

Right now they are removing the moulding and doing a mock-up of lowering the light board. If that looks OK, I'm not quite as concerned about the variation from one side to the other. My thought process is, unless you looked quickly from one side to the next and back again, you might not necessarily notice the difference.

Also, good eye buehl! In addition to the variation in overall height, there is a dip in the middle.

I LOVE my ceiling. :) Thanks everybody.
lesmis
14 years ago
Ebse, our house is not old...it's just not square! I would love to have the old house part if I'm going to have to deal with the out of square part! ;) Our cabinet guy asked everywhere he had to adjust the crown whether or not I was ok with that or did I want him to do something else. I was really torn, but like I said it wasn't in areas that were a major focal point like yours. I do think it will become less noticeable once everything is in though, and of course people on GW always have great solutions to problems so I'm sure your trim people can fix it to your satisfaction.

Kat :)
weedmeister
14 years ago
could you:

place a flat board flush with the face of the cabinets wide enough that it extends down just below the light box. Trim/scribe the board at the top to match the ceiling, the bottom to be level.

Use this flat board as the attachment for the crown, making the crown flat across all the cabinets.

This way, all the crowns are scribed to the ceiling in the same way and this piece has a level line below it. You could fill behind it for the light box and paint it all white.
ebse
Original Author
14 years ago
Hi all, the mock up looks good. I'll post a pic in a bit, because the ceiling is being painted right now.

Getting there...

Thanks again for all your help!
sombreuil_mongrel
14 years ago
It should have been fixed before the ceiling was drywalled. The best solution I could offer would be to drop the light box portion by 2" so the difference would be lost in a larger field than the small one like now. Zero to 3/4" is a quantum leap but 2" to 2 3/4" is a marginal increase.
Casey

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