Definitely black...

I love that table. If you live anywhere near me I would gladly take it off your hand !!

Do you like the look of oak, and will it work in your home? If so, I would strip it.

If not, I would do a black with a brownish red rub through.

Why not sell it to someone who would appreciate the quality and beauty?

The table has beautiful lines. My inclination based on experience would be to paint it black. We have learned the hard way the challenges of stipping multiple layers of unknown finishes off of furniture - especially when you are looking at removing it from detailed areas like the legs.

Would love to see what you decide to do!

How about you do both? You could paint the legs and strip and re-do the top! :) Love the table and yes, it can be a beautiful swan with a little bit of work!

It depends on if you like oak. I think it's beautiful and would go nicely with your floor. If it were me, I'd strip it, or pay a professional to strip it. Are those little metal castors on the legs? If it wouldn't hurt the height, I think I'd do away with those. Your room looks lovely, by the way.

It is my understanding that you shouldn't use steel wool on oak, something about the minute steel pieces that get caught in the grain and turn into dark specks. Thus stripping an oak piece becomes a harder job than working on other types of wood. I suppose you could have it professionally stripped and do the finish yourself, or just go with painting it.

WOW - Thank you all for your votes! Just to be clear, I called it ugly because of the bad paint treatment it is currently enduring. I love it and want to use it, I just think it needs some TLC, and knew you guys could point me in the right direction!

My DH is a "wood guy," being a carpenter by trade. His vote automatically goes with keeping/enhancing natural wood. I think if he had his way, there would be no painted furniture in the house! I, however, appreciate and value wood, but I think there are some pieces that are just begging for a different treatment. I have been trying to figure out if this is one of those pieces!

So you think having a table and a nearby kitchen island painted similarly is okay? What color/finish chairs should I be looking for to coordinate? Here's a bigger shot of the room if that helps(and you can see why I need a new table/chairs!):

les or others - How do I achieve the "brownish red rub through" you mentioned? I have brick red paint that goes with the brick floors -- should I give the table a coat of that first, then black, then rub/sand through?

Thanks!
bloomin...

Why don't you have a professional strip it? They dip it so it is done right. There is oak and there is oak. Much of the fine furniture we so covet from France and England is oak and we think it is something else, because it is not the young, wide-grained oak that we see today. There will not be anymore of this furniture once all of it is gone and you have a piece that can be a treasure if it is propely done, or you have a piece that you can sell to someone who will properly care for it.

A Pembroke table in solid oak is not something I would ever call an ugly duckling.

Bloomin, that is a beautiful table - lucky you. I agree with Les, paint it the brick red paint, then wax areas you want to distress. Paint it black and distress it (sand) - where you waxed the black paint won't stick and will reveal the brick red and you can sand down and reveal some wood as well. It will be gorgeous.

Are you keeping the white/wood table in the room? I presume you'll keep it closed and against a wall when not used? Then you can use it as a buffet or display area when not in use. To tie it into your current table, I would repaint the white area with the distressed black finish.

Sky

Patricia43 - I would consider having it professionally stripped, because the wood underneath looks really nice. But it was my understanding that the price for that is astronomical. Am I wrong? I mean, I know I didn't pay for the table, but spending hundreds of dollars to strip it just isn't in the budget right now. We just redid this house and moved in, and still have a kitchen to pay for. Anyone know a ballpark figure? I'm in the Northeast! (Cha-ching!)

I never thought about stripping the top and painting the legs - interesting idea! My current table is that way, as you can see in the picture, but I think they did it because the legs are lighter in color. I'm not sure it would work to have black legs and an oak top... And yes, the castors can come off!

skypathway - Thanks for the tip - That wax step was what I was missing! Do I need to do anything else to prep the table for more paint? And about the white/wood table there now -- it doesn't close, so I won't be using it in that room. It may become a coloring table for the kids somewhere else. Eventually I will add another piece of furniture, like a hutch or buffet or both! Plenty of room.

bloomin...

My dad has the same table--his is in walnut, which has a similar open-pore grain to good-quality oak--and it cleaned up just fine with regular paint stripper & a toothbrush.

Back in the 193Os, the English decorator Syrie Maugham lightened up the heavy feel of some mid-Victorian furniture by applying white paint with a crazed finish (so much for Rachel What's-her-name 'inventing' the Sshabby Chic look: all she did was give it a catchy name) and she started a fad. Suddenly, all over country, Depession-era housewives did the same thing to every old piece of furniture they could get their hands on, generally with less successful results than Syrie's. But at least it was a change, and when you can't afford new furniture and you hate the dark, out-of-style stuff you have, often any change is good. Or, at least, you tell yourself so.

By the late 6Os & early 7O's, the worn white-painted look was itself totally out of style, so a lot of that same furniture was repainted in Mod colors & 'antiqued' with brown stain, making such pieces--if possible--even uglier than they were before. Then again, this was the generation that made macrame popular, so it's not like they knew ugly when they saw it. Not with what they were smoking.

Anyway, when my dad inherited the table from his grandmother, it had already been through two amateurish makeovers and was as ugly as sin, but my mom took it back down to the handsome grain of the walnut & gave it a few coats of heavy-duty marine varnish which was, of course, historically incorect, but probably not a bad idea since this was to serve as the dining room table for ten years in a house with four clumsy boys. Thirty years later, the table needs to be redone again--this time in a more authentic finish--but the table itself has held up just fine well into its second century.

At any rate, with a table with such nice lines--many Victorian tables were absolutely hideous--just about anything you do will look good. Either way, be sure to post before-&-after pictures. M.

I vote for black -- BUT if you use it -- try to use it as an accent color throughout the room ......

Use Liquid Sandpaper -- brush on; wait about half and hour until the finish goes cloudy.

Then start painting. I used American Traditions spray paint (Satin Black) on my kitchen barstools and tiny kitchen island. Several very light coats until the final look is achieved. Some people get better results from a sponge brush and paint -- others from a good brush .....

Then simply sand off the edges -- and wipe the exposed wood with a bit of brown shoe polish (in the old fashioned flat can) on a very slightly damp piece of paper towel. The exposed wood will look aged ..... that it!

Magnaverde, you are right about that but then they went to painting the same furniture black. There is a ton of weathered black furniture with lead paint all throughout the South which was probably less affected by the Depression since many were farmers and grew their own food, who owned their land and then came the "mahogany" (colored) paint of the 40s that would cover the black sin and finding that it cracked when putting the new paint over the old paint, led to a whole new craze, the "crackled" paint which was invented by unknowing housewives who wanted to add another color over their dark and dreary black painted furniture. But then if you are not from the south, how would you know? :)

Why not try to strip the table yourself? It might not be as hard as you think. If it's bad, then you can bail out and paint if if you like.

As far as the cost of a professional stripper, I think you need to call around. We only had one piece done that way and it was years ago. Do check to be sure you won't get it back in kit form if they dip it. The dip can dissolve the glue and to my memory that's how we got ours back. We had to reassemble it.

I have this very same table, castors and all. When I bought it for ds I think it had been on a porch because the top looked very weathered and warped. This was many years ago before he could afford his own furniture so can't remember too well but think the legs were painted green. We removed the legs and stripped them and it was not all that difficult. Then I had to sand the top as it was in really Ugly Duckling condition. In fact yours looks to be in perfect condition. I have the table back now and use it in our part-time TH. I think if you remove the castors the height will not allow room for your legs to fit under the table. I wish mine had been in the condition yours looks to be in! So I vote to have your husband try to restore it to the original finish.

Hey Magna!

I was in high school in the 70's and I was into putting that antiqued finish on furniture that I bought at thrift shops AND I did macramé too (shudder)! No comment on what I was smoking!! ;-)

beache

Sometimes you can find people on the "side" that refinish.
A guy at our local furniture stores does it very reasonably (read green dollars).

My mom has a old solid oak farm table she had refinished and it is gorgeous!!

Either way, you have got a great piece!!

Learn something new everyday....didn't know the oak we see now is young(that I don't really care for) but when I see old English/French antiques in oak - I really love it!! Thanks, Patricia!!

I also enjoyed reading Magnaverde's thread. Gosh, can't stand that English twit Rachael what's her name!! She is English, isn't she??! LOL

Smiles:)

When we were first married -- my husband did re-finishing and stripping (furniture LOL!) for a couple of antique shops. In return we got "first pick" of their latest finds ....

He took off that wonderful old patina and old paint to replace it with a pristine New finish ...... that was in the early 1980s during the Re-finished Pine Craze.

NOW folks pay BIG money for that original finish and/or original paint!! "Patina" is the New Craze. Or the Original Paint ...... LOL!!

Beauty is All in the eye of the Buyer ......

Patricia43 is so right about the difference between the oak whose straight, even grain comes from slow growth resulting from dim green light filteringd down through high, vast canopies of dense leaves in ancient forests, and that of the shaggy, erratic grain that comes from plantation-grown trees that get plenty of sun & fertilizer, which things are to a tree what a steady diet of Mountain Dew & Twix bars are to a kid. No wonder the grain of modern wood is all over the place.

There's a historic building here in town that was restored a few years ago, and in the public corridors, the difference between the handsome, century-old oak of the door jambs & the brand-new oak of the replica doors (fire codes diallowed using the old doors, which were still in excellent condition) is jarring. That's why, these days, I generally suggest painted trim for new houses: what passes for "stain-grain" wood today would have been turned into studs a hundred years ago.

Up till a few years ago, I had an apartment in a big Victorian farmhouse, and the trim inside the closet of what was originally a servant's bedroom was better quality wood than most of the stuff I see in zillion dollar new construction these days. But hey, that's progress! M.

Magnaverde - You and my hubby would make good company. The first thing he does in old places is check out their woodwork - trim, panels, arches and the like!

I am a lover of things rich with history, and can appreciate the fine wood of an antique, and I agree that this table has great lines... but my struggle is picturing it in its new environment, with either a great painted finish OR stripped to its original beauty.

I so appreciate all of your comments, even though it appears that the vote is as torn as I am!

teacats - Thanks for the painting tips!

oceanna - Not a bad plan to strip with the option of paiting later if it doesn't turn out right...

Dorothy9 - You're right, this one does seem to be in perfect condition. Thanks for the tip about the casters, I'll have to measure before I think about removing them!

Maybe I'll call some professional strippers (LOL - hope DH isn't reading!) to get a feel for pricing before I make up my mind. I'm usually a DIY-kind of gal.... we'll see.

In case I go the route of DIY - anyone have a favorite stripper? (LOL again!)

Thanks,
bloomin...

That might not be oak given the age of the casters. We had a similar table years ago that had been painted black and who knows what else over the years. It turned out to be solid walnut under the ugly paint job. I stripped it myself (outside) using wood bleach and only had to give it a light sanding and a coat of polyurethane. We're still using it today and it floats from room to room depending on where we need it.

I've had alot of luck using Formby's Refinisher in recent years. It will remove any surface crud. Use fine steel wool and a toothbrush in the detail part of the legs. Keep wiping the stuff off with clean rags as you work. As others have suggested, it might not be too expensive to have it dipped. Call around to some of the antique shops and see who they use. That would at least get the lion's share off so you can see what you have to work with - to either paint or poly.

If you decide to work on it yourself, make sure you get a good face mask and wear goggles to protect your eyes. :)

Patricia43 .. what is the meaning behind your remark? "why don't you sell it to someone who appreciates the quality and the beauty?" Sometimes it is difficult to understand the "tone" behind a message when it is over the computer and not in person. She DOES appreciate the quality and the beauty.. that is why she is willing to put so much time and effort into restoring it.
I could be way off mark .. but it sounds as if you are insinuating that bloominwhereplanted doesn't appreciate the table.
Anyways .. I think it is the Opposite .. I think bloomin Loves the table & think your comment is thinly veiled.
:(

I love your table, and IMO, would pe beautiful if it were re-stored back to it's original condition, painted ivory/glaze, or a distressed black. It's just one of those pieces that would accommodate any type of finish~could be formal or casual. I have a similiar table, but the wheels are missing.

I believe I read something years ago about the Victorians and there black painted furniture. It was because the soot from the fire darkened the wood of the surround/mantel, as well as other furniture in the room. It's the same reason for the dark stained wood, deep colored painted rooms, as well as dark fabrics and wallpapers~soot.

Thanks, sippimom, for sharing your experience and tips. My heart did a little flip-flop to think mine could be walnut too!

lorriekay - I was wondering the same thing! I think she was offended that I called my table an ugly duckling. The whole point of the ugly duckling was that there was something beautiful inside! I didn't personally attack something that was hers, so I don't see any reason for her to be offended. Hopefully you and I are both wrong and translated the "tone" incorrectly!

Thank you, patty_cakes -- You see my dilemma! Very interesting about the soot! What finish does your similar table have?

bloomin...

I'm having trouble picturing the table next to (so close to) the kitchen table. What's going on the far back wall? I'm wondering how you plan to use the table -- with a lamp, accessories, and maybe with a chair or two next to it? I can picture that more at an offset to the other table, centered on the back wall, if you have no plans for that area yet. Maybe flanked by some comfy seating to relax with coffee in the morning.

I think I'd try stripping it first :) If you should decide on black, how about a black forest green (almost black).

squirrelheaven - Sorry for the confusion... this drop-leaf table is REPLACING the old ivory/wood table! The old one will not be anywhere near it (probably moved to the basement!). In the future I hope to add a buffet or hutch or both to the room.

I designed this house a little differently - no formal dining room, just a really big kitchen/dining area. I figure everyone always ends up in the kitchen anyway, and this way there's room to accommodate that! We're casual folks at this stage in our lives, and in past homes have been known to have company for dinner, only to crowd everyone into the kitchen for dinner instead of using the formal DR! Everyone relaxes sooner and is comfortable being included as "part of the family" in the family dining area. KWIM? I'll have a big island with stools in the kitchen, but no separate "kitchenette". It's all one big room.

I think I'm starting to lean with you - trying to strip it first! I'll definitely let you kind folks know what I decide.

bloomin...

First off, and I will answer this only because "bloominwhereplanted" feels that my comment was offensive. I wish you had addressed me earlier rather than talking through others. The other poster whose post I will not dignify with a response.

It was by no means intended to offend, but to state that you seem unhappy with it and perplexed about what to do with it, and I thought a better idea might be to sell this wonderful piece to someeone who would like it and take it back to its original finish and with that money, you could find something you truly liked.

It seems you are perplexed about whether or not you really like it, as though you are trying to convince yourself that it can be beautiful.

On the other hand, it is easy for me to see how pretty it is and what a treasure it is. If that is offensive or a "veiled" threat, then my apologies, but I was trying to defend the piece and perhaps suggest a way you could buy something you really like for the location if you don't feel it a worthy piece. Since we do not all like the same things, which is a good thing because if we did we would all have green rooms and cherry cabinets, etc., etc.

I do not believe your piece is oak because oak was very difficult to turn in that manner, although it was done, but usually something like walnut would have been used to make the legs on your table.

If it is oak, then it is more valuable than I originally thought because it would have come from better oak than we are using and have the fine intricacies in the wood of a more refined wood.

It seems my honesty was being brought into question.

Blooming - take a small pen knife or some sandpaper and on the underside of a leaf, gently scrape some of the paint/layers of coating off until you get down to real wood. Then look at the grain and color of the wood - if it's fine grain, it's not oak.

My guess is walnut or cherry. Even when raw, walnut will be a dark chocolate color. Freshly scraped cherry will be about the color of oak but have a much finer grain. Cherry will get darker as it ages. An antiques person should be able to identify it for you.

patricia43 - Thanks for clarifying, although I don't know what made you perceive I didn't like the table. If I'm perplexed, it's because I can't decide which finish would look best on this table and in my space, and because I'm uncertain of my ability to achieve either finish! And I am certainly not questioning your honesty.

All that aside, I dug out the leaves for the table (at your urging sippimom!), and luckily, one of the leaves was never painted underneath! I photographed it for you wood experts.

Remember, this is the underside... What do you think? Was I wrong to assume it's oak? Do you need more pictures?

Thanks!
bloomin...

I'm no wood expert by a long shot, but that does look similar to oak to me. Maybe someone else can help more.

Is it possible that it's pine?

The pics aren't very detailed, but it looks more like Walnut to me. Esp with its dark coloring. Looks to be a lot of fine straight graining.

Maybe it is a stained pine! That knot catches in my mind. Is the underneath stained? Does the wood seem to be a soft or hard wood?

It doesn't look oak to me, but we're not seeing a closeup in good lighting. Oak is pretty easy to recognize.

One word of warning... some old pieces of furniture are made out of more than one kind of wood. This was often done during the Depression because people only had a bit of this and a bit of that, but it can happen from any era. If it's not all one kind of wood it might be very hard or impossible to make it look good. That happened to us with my sideboard.

But if it is all out of one kind of wood staining it should be easy. You just pick out the stain you like at the store. How dark it gets is a function of how long you leave the stain on before you remove it. Try to apply it fairly evenly, but it doesn't have to be perfect like paint. Let it sit, then rub it off with a dry cloth you want to throw away afterwards. I'd just let it sit a short time before wiping. Then if you want it darker apply again and let it sit a little longer. That way you can darken it down in stages. If you know the wood you can try a test piece. If you sand a little spot bare on the underside of a leaf you can do tests there to see what you like. It truly isn't hard to stain a piece of furniture. Ask the guy at the hardware store for tips. You may want to wet sand it with very fine paper when you're done if it's a hard wood. Take a leaf with you to the hardware store to ask your questions.

I like natural wood better than paint because it's rich, natural and beautiful -- and because it doesn't show dirt and marks as much as paint does. IME it's more durable. Once it's done with reasonable care it should last much longer than a paint job.

Most of all, please post before and after photos when you're done. I can't wait to see what you do with it. I think it will be beautiful!

I wonder if it could be possible that the leaf you pictured is not a match to the table since it was not painted? DD has a large old table that belonged to my Mother and I believe the leaves do not all match the table top. I can't remember where I got several oak table leaves and gave them to a friend who had an oak table so there could have been more trading around back when.
The under side of the one you pictured does not look like oak to me, don't recall seeing knots in any old oak I have had.

It doesn't look like oak to me. Probably worth stripping to see what you have.

Try EZ Way stripper, easy to use and works like a charm for paint, stain or varnish (probably what the dippers use but a better quality and doesn't damage the wood).

Here is a link that might be useful: EZ Way Stripper

I think I'd take it to a pro to see what you have, get their opinion on the piece and then decide how to proceed. Good luck!

That's beautiful. I think I'd have it professionally stripped also and finish the whole thing in wood. I also kind of liked the suggestion of a combination. You could strip a little of the top to see what you have and then decide. I like the look of black legs with wood top, especially with black chairs. That's what I have in my dining room. I can't wait to see that table when you're all finished with it. Good luck!

Black and wood....

Hand-stripping can be very enjoyable and satisfying, and it certainly leaves the piece in better condition than the professional vat stripping, which leaves the wood sort of dry and forlorn-looking, though completely stripped to be sure.

Just follow the directions, use rubber gloves, plenty of rags and toothbrushes, and steel wool is fine. You need plenty of ventilation, do it outdoors if you can. I can't tell you how many pieces I've stripped over the past many years, some of which I still have, and it really is fun. Back when I started, the stripper would eat little holes in your skin if it splashed on you. :) Safer compounds are available now.

Your extra leaf tells the story. Bloomin' my money's on walnut.

Here's a picture of the walnut dropleaf table that I refinished 31 yrs ago (was it really that long ago? yikes!) It had been painted black and was a horrible mess. And yes, walnut has knots in it if it's flatsawn.

Remember, walnut is not a particularly hard wood. It's about the same as american cherry and it will dent. Oak is harder than walnut. You can see a few dents in my pics below where it's been knocked a few times.

1st one, with flash.
{{!gwi}}

2nd photo: no flash
{{!gwi}}

http://www.heartpine.com/history.shtm

Wooderlander, how do you do your stripping? The last time I tried it, it kept eating holes in my Playtex gloves. That was a lot of years ago and now I'd just use the disposable gloves, but does it still eat holes through them? Then there's the temptation to hose the whole thing off when you're done, which you can't do with wood. Tips? Favorite products? I remember that and it being soooo messy.

Sippimom your table is just beautiful! I enjoyed seeing it. A little patina just adds to the charm. :-)

You are all so sweet -- I so appreciate all of your suggestions and ideas. Thank you so much for chiming in about my poor table!

Mimi - I love your black and wood set! Really looks sharp. I may do that if I can't get the paint off the legs!

Sippimom - your table is really beautiful. Great job refinishing it.

Well, I tried stripping one section of the tabletop today! I used a white gel-like stripper called "Peel Away" or something like that... the hardest part was just waiting for it to do it's work!

Here's a close-up of the lovely green next to the newly stripped section:

So... what do you think??

bloomin...

bloomin, I think you should keep going! Bet it may end up looking like sippimom's table. Think you would love the natural finish. Start saving old tooth brushes for working on the legs and I think it may be easier if you take off the legs while working on them.

Dorothy

It is a beautiful table and that is a wonderful space you have to use it!
I agree keep at it!
It will be a wonderful table to ue for the holidays. Good luck.

Still looks to me like it might be walnut Bloomin' ...

As you could see, using the flash our walnut table took on a reddish tone, as yours does, but in natural light it's very brown. Almost a blackish brown, like the picture of the leaf you posted above.

I really, really hope you are doing your stripping out in a garage or well-ventilated space (porch, etc) You can get stripping gloves at Walmart - they are very heavy duty and the chemicals won't leach through. Might take 2 or 3 pr for your project & well worth the $$ spent if you are going to do the whole table yourself.

Once you get the lion's share of the old stuff off, you'll want to sand it before you begin any polyurethane or paint. The problem with antiquing is that green stuff is like a stain and it gets into the wood pores.

It really might be easier/faster for you to have it dipped and then you can do a light sanding if needed, and decide from there what you want to do (paint or polyurethane, etc). I've had a few things dipped that I wanted to refinish and I think that cost-wise it's a wash by the time you end up buying all of the chemicals, gloves, items you need vs just letting someone else dip it and take it down to bare wood.

There are a few folks over in the woodworking forum that are quite helpful also if you run into a problem. Good luck with it.

Thanks for the encouragement, Dorothy and Kathleen! Sippimom - thanks again for your help! Don't worry - the product I'm using states "no special ventilation needed" because it doesn't contain methylene chloride or caustic - and is classified as non-toxic! I do wear gloves, but the stripper doesn't damage them at all, and it doesn't smell! The process wouldn't take long at all if it weren't for the waiting time. After brushing it on, I have to wait until it starts bubbling up, then I just scrape it off with a putty knife/scraper. It comes right up. I would have the table dipped if this were difficult, but I really don't think it is. I will sand it as you suggested... then decide how to finish it! And I will probably take the legs off to make it easier to scrape the paint off of them.

Thanks again for your tips and encouragement! It's because of you guys that I was motivated to begin this project, and you will be a big reason I'm motivated to finish -- so I can show you the final product!

bloomin...

Bloomin' it's looking great! If you like the color when it's done, and you just want to preserve it, you can use tung oil on it. That's what I'm doing with the coffee table I bought for my son. I sanded the because it was badly scratched and a little bubbled in places (not to mention they'd painted objects on it, but that could have been stripped). Then I stained it. Now I'm doing coats of tung oil on it. Or, you can use a lacquer if you want more shine and protection. I'm so glad you jumped right in. When it's done you'll be rightly so proud of yourself!

Of course, we'll want pictures. :-)