Now, How would you feel if I told you the *real* prices of the items I listed above are TWICE AS MUCH as I put next to each item?

Pal, I agree it depends on the item. There's guy in my town who restores old wooden trunks and sells them for $400. Now, they're not louis vuitton. But he does a great job and they lok really nice. Same with factory carts, baker's tables, typwwriters, fans cameras.

OTOH, a real vintage toledo draftsman stool is quite more than the RH imitation price. Plus I couldn't find any locally so I would have to purchase the toledo stool online. I cannot verify their condition or authenticity. So If I do end up getting industrial stools for my kitchen island, I will most likely get RH. Plus I never, ever pay full price. Thery're constantly having sales.

But, I'm one of the 3 who actually shops there....so my opinion was probable not the one you were looking for.

Well I have a trunk similar to the one posted, only mine is the "real deal". It went across the ocean a few times with my grandparents and I couldn't get $20 for it at my garage sale so I kept it.

BTW, I love that sofa. swoon.

Well there are trunks and there are trunks, and the thing about that one is that it is also Louis Vuitton but for some reason it is lined on the interior with identifying covering while the outside is plain impregnated linen.

One could say they can ask whatever they want for such a trunk (in this case $9000) --but the thing is that these trunks actually sell in the 4-5 figures (one can track the solds and roughly determine price) so they are getting at least 70% of what they are asking for, I imagine.

If your trunk is also Louis Vuitton, you just didn't have the right audience.

i haven't responded to previous posts... too large by the time i saw them to read through!
i definitely like RH for certain things, but do think they're pricey for what you get many times. i have shopped there for bed linens, ready made drape panels, bath items, curtain rods and finials and lamp shades, etc...i also always buy sales-on everything i buy!

i think some of their furniture/decorator items are massive/very masculine looking (and i like masculine things...) or 'over the top' style wise like it's trying too hard to make a statement. i know my husb, who tends to like their stuff, really liked their tripod(surveyors??) lamp they had out a couple of years ago--it was too much for my taste!

if i'm going to spend alot of money on furniture, i tend to look for good, comfortable furniture from reputable furniture makers...i would tend to be wary of putting alot of money down on RH furniture. i also tend to keep furniture that i purchase and don't tend to be a trendy decorator...

gotta say, out of the above pics, i love the wing chairs and some of the trunks!

it would absolutely KILL me to see our puppy chewing on one of the legs of the $20,000 sofa pictured above... :)

Hey, I have 2 aluminum trunks and to think my DH wanted to throw them out! They are from the 1960's and my parents used to have lots of them for their work related worldwide moves. They had even older ones that they threw out! I'm sure none were LV.

Aluminum steamer trunk, Craigslist, $25.

{{!gwi}}

Bookcase, ebay, about $1300, needs pickling:

Porter chair on ebay, $999.

Of course these pieces don't have the provenance or value of your examples, but neither does RH. And they were the result of only about a minute or two of Googling.

I bet at least some of them are constructed much better than RH, though. Anybody who thinks RH offers good quality really needs to visit one of their outlet store and see what the furniture looks like when it's been smashed up and you can see what it's made of.

I don't like the stuff at any price, but that's just me.

I do like the grey sofa, but as comfy as the down cushions are, I can't take the rumpled look of them.

I am not really trying to make a case for Restoration Hardware or egainst eBay. eBay is where I have gotten a lot of stuff, But I am willing to bid, I am willing to wait, I am willing to lose, and I am willing to buy without seeing the actual item in person, (even upholstery because I usually plan on frame up reupholstery anyway).

I chose stuff that is available in brick and mortar stores ,and the stuff that RH is based upon, and that you could purchase outright, and pretty much use as is. And is also at the scale of the RH stuff. That bookcase is ten feet long.

If people are finding this stuff at Home Goods or their nearest Goodwill or Thrift Shop, I want to move where they are, because I am not.

Great pieces that everyone above found. I had a long post partially typed up but mostly it just agreed with what Palimpest said and since his was more succinct I deleted my rambling one.

I do not think the pieces are worth even 1/4 of what they are asking!

The RH pieces, the genuine pieces or both?

What you or I think they are worth is immaterial unless we want to buy them. The market is what determines the price.

I sometimes pick a particular item and watch it, and when it is sold you know what the asking price was at the time of sale and can assume that the selling price was a fairly high percentage of that price.

If they didn't think they could get 70% or so of $19,000 for the duchesse en brise, they wouldn't price it that way barring a miscalculation on their part. This is a little easier to track when you see similar things over and over. If they are consistently listed over time at $19,000, it is selling somewhere in that ballpark. They aren't selling it to you or me for $4500 just because we don't think its worth $19K.

The only thing that I think is somewhat something I'd be interested in is the couch. I like the curvy lines on the arms. It reminds me of that line that barbara barry did a few years ago (she probably has something similar again with her new line w/henredon).

However, after looking closely at it... I can't imagine buying it. The underneath looks to be hanging lining fabric. The rumpled cushion doesn't meet the ends of the couch. Could be from the rumpling, but even so a good upholsterer wouldn't let something like that slide. The sides look filled too much and the back doesn't look filled enough. Could be the pictures. The pair of chairs are pretty. But, the nailheads look to be off. It looks like cheap cotton muslin or just polished cotton on the chairs. I couldn't find it on the website to to make sure it wasn't linen. Oh well.

I didn't get the catalog and I haven't been on their site for a long time until now. But, oh man, that is a whole lotta beige.

I live in northern indiana, not exactly the mecca of fine design. I wish that we had the craiglists or the goodwills that everyone else has. All I see is sauder furniture or something similar. I'm jealous of you guys (and whoever lives in San Fran with the ability to pick up that la cornue stove. I'd be all over that. I would even have pulled money off of a credit card for it. That is saying a lot for me!) I understand that RH is trying to push the belgian, swedish, or whatever look. When I think of quality furniture or hip design, I'm not looking to RH. And I know if you're on this site, you aren't either. The people on here are just too picky and we think that we are better than (and know) that.

I think if they were really smart they should have dropped an icon on cote de whatever's blog (which I do check out) Their sales would have skyrocketed. :)

But, we all know this will backfire in the end. Because, if you're looking at a 20k couch, you either know better than to buy there or your *decorator* would have steered you away. The new director or ceo or whatever moved too many price points up too quickly without justification (imo). But, maybe he knows better than all of us. That's why he makes the big bucks. i'd like to see his profit/loss sheet at the end of the year. (On a good note, he was able to single handily bring the postal service out of the red. :)

Who knows. Sorry for the endless rambling.

I can't speak to the value of things like antique LV trunks because I've never paid attention to them in stores, but for some of the other items (stone finials, zinc garden elements, non-LV trunks) I just don't value the difference between your pricey versions and the lovely antique (not thrift store) versions available locally for a fraction of the prices you show listed.

I don't care if Marie Antionette herself sat in a chair, that adds no value to me above the value of how it looks and how it functions.

Overall, I wonder about the social-class self-consciousness that leads so many middle-income Americans to want to mimic the romanticized European/East Coast upper/aristocratic classes in the first place. What's wrong with just having a house that looks like a middle-class home in Ohio or Iowa or Washington state? Why the yearning for Belgium or Paris or high-society New York that makes the RH price seem worthwhile because it is so much more affordable than "real"?

Overall, I wonder about the social-class self-consciousness that leads so many middle-income Americans to want to mimic the romanticized European/East Coast upper/aristocratic classes in the first place. What's wrong with just having a house that looks like a middle-class home in Ohio or Iowa or Washington state? Why the yearning for Belgium or Paris or high-society New York that makes the RH price seem worthwhile because it is so much more affordable than "real"?

Excellent question.

I think this is partly because we can now see what real high end pieces look like. In the '20s to the '50s, you might really believe the Louis XVI chair you picked up at the local department store looked like one that Louis himself might have sat on. Today magazines and the Internet show you that's not so.

Mostly, though, it's because of the massive wealth disparity in the U.S.--wealth is more concentrated in the top few thousand people, even the top few hundred people, than it has been at any time since 1929 (no coincidence). So the objects of aspiration are not simply well off, but super, ultra, unimaginably rich.

I've noticed that you don't really pay for antiques; you pay for where you buy them. Go on 1st Dibs, and everything costs a fortune, because they are all high end specialty antiques dealers with national followings among collectors. Look on eBay, or at a local shop, and you can pay much less. Look on craigslist, or frequent estate sales, and you'll pay next to nothing. Yes, there's a greater investment of time, but if you're really looking for a particular piece, not even the high end stores will enable you to point and click to get whatever you want, anytime you want. You have to wait for your piece to come in.

One of the things that bugs me most about RH is that it's such a poor investment for the money. An antique at least stands a chance of holding its value. New furniture is almost always a poor investment. I think that is especially true when it is so relentlessly trendy, visible and of the moment. Not only does RH's whole catalog look like this, but now you can buy the same look cheap from Ballard Design and other lower-cost outlets. Ten years from now, every RH piece will scream when and where you bought it. It will be very out.

Exposure to the real thing and wealth disparity about covers it.

And the disparity between the upper middle to wealthy class and the ultra wealthy is much greater than the disparity is between the working class and the upper middle class.

(In other words if You make $500,000 and I make $50,000 the difference is $450,000. But the person who makes $10M makes $9.5M more than the person who makes $500,000 and both the $1OM earner and the $0.5M earner are considered "wealthy".)

So there are people for whom buying the real thing, like that $19,000 sofa which needs to be reupholstered isn't really such a big deal at all, but there are people who want that look and can't quite stretch that far. They might be the people who are buying the gigantic RH sofa.

(The ultra wealthy will pay hundreds of thousands for a piece of furniture on a regular basis. Individual important pieces are starting to top $1M routinely. I know someone who knows the collector who paid $8M for a table--and I don't know ANYbody, so if it's only that many degrees of separation from me, its out there.)

But I could really see things like the zinc planters and cast stone pieces going on to peoples terraces and patios when they can't afford the real stone capitals and zinc planters from the 19th c. They may even have the real actual house or giant loft for it, but not quite the income to pay for the real thing.

I don't buy much new, so even looking at the catalog is more fantasy than reality. The prices seem too high for mass-produced to me, but they're not as high as custom made. And the scale is the main point--this stuff is so much bigger than anything I see anywhere (and I'm in LA, great 2nd hand shopping, usually.) This isn't a dainty little repro breakfront--that's a statement piece of wood furniture.

palimpsest, what does it matter to you what people think about RH? Your persistence in defending them is really striking.

Actually I don't really care at all.

The only thing I have ever bought from them are the initials they have in the children's catalogs since I have given my nieces their initial every year for a dozen years and can't always find vintage.

I just find the hatred evoked by the new ad campaign striking, particularly since the stuff, other than the finish of the case goods is hardly different. People who raved about the old RH are acting...betrayed...people who still like it have been driven underground.

It's a big sociology experiment right here on GardenWeb

I understand that, Pal. I think the ultimate success or failure of a once-thriving enterprise is interesting to follow, and to try to dissect.

I mentioned on another of your RH threads that I do like many of their items, but I was treated very shabbily when I visited an RH store. I think the prententiousness of the catalog and the CEO, combined with the better-than-you attitude I experienced from the salespeople, makes me feel as if they aren't interested in my business. And I really don't know how they're going to succeed unless people like me (GW people and middle America) continue to buy their products. And, you can't sell if you can't get our attention, and the fact that so many here tossed the catalog without looking at it, people admittedly obsessed with decorating, doesn't bode well for their future.

Dee

Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining. You could have had another career as a market researcher : )

I like the idea about the initials, btw.

Pal, you think this is a sociology experiment...I wish I could find some of the old Landscape Design threads where we talked about lawns (pro and con). GOODNESS. Bordered on religious fanaticism betimes!

I'm not a fan of the new RH stores...but it's the lighting and the cave-like atmosphere I object to. TOO DARK. I am middle-aged and prefer brighter lighting when shopping. I like some of the pieces.

I LOVE the lines on that sofa and I like down cushions. What vintage/make is it? If I had 9K I'd consider it...and re-upholster it! My biggest problem with ebay and sofas isn't the need to re-upholster (I'm buying the frame, after all) it's the SHIPPING. To date most of the sofas I've wanted have been far away and "local pick-up only". I'm going to keep haunting, though. One of these days my sofa will be withing driving distance!

I did clinical patient based pharmaceutical trials at one point in my current profession and to a degree there is a certain amount of behaviors analysis that goes into it--the Placebo Effect (up to 30%); compliance; and adverse events. An adverse event could clearly have nothing to do with the medication at hand, but it all needs to be reported because the person's behavior has been altered or they THINK it has to do with the medication at hand.

I had some time off last week because the semester started yesterday. I will be busier now so I won't be pestering people as much with this type of thread :]

I think the though is that if you cannot afford the real thing and are buying imitation anyway then there are cheaper knock-offs at ballard, home decorators, or home goods etc.

Probably 1% of the population even cares. Those are the millionaires who buy things because they can and later brag about it, as if anyone else cares.

If you're studying the pieces that's different, but really, I can't list one person I know IRL who would pay that much money for a piece of furniture, unless it was a big screen TV for football season. lol

I think it also depends on the type of item. If the $19k bookcase that Pal linked was "the" piece I really wanted and fit my space perfectly I would have no problem paying that price, but I would never spend $9k on Stone Finials. I see value in one, but not in the other.

There is no way I would pay those prices even if I had the money, I can think of much better purposes for that amount of money. I am sure the appeal is that the common folk cannot afford it, because there are plenty of well-designed furnishings that don't cost anywhere near that. But that is my opinion and everyone has one, on the other hand, it does help the economy.

I have given my nieces their initial every year for a dozen years and can't always find vintage.

etsy. You will always be able to find vintage initials on etsy.

I agree with Chispa. It depends on the item and if I really want it (perfect for my space, could use in more than one place in the home, functional as well as pretty). Ok, I have to take back the functional part since I tend to mostly buy vintage/antique accessories just because. The things I have probably over paid for, but was happy to overpay, were things I had seen (online or in magazines), searched for (online and locally), and finally found (locally, traveling or online) - at a price I felt comfortable paying.. and didn't think was over the top. They had to be in good shape (not falling apart or damaged).

A case of RH vs Antique. They have os de mouton wing chairs, on sale for $1185-1580. (regular $1395-1860).

I had been searching for a pair of antique os de mounton arm chairs. Decent shape. Didn't care if they needed recovering since I would rather. I finally found a set of four, and luckily the shop owner was willing to divide. I purchased a pair, found the perfect fabric at bargain price (reg $27 a yard, and I got 4 yards for $27) yet it cost me $700 to recover both (included removing the back which was red leather, so they had to redo the webbing). Total for the pair, I spent about the same as one RH chair regular price. I'd much rather have an antique or vintage piece.

I can justify the recovering expense since I will never recover them again. Getting the fabric at a bargain helped offset the cost of the chairs and recovering (at least in my mind). The chairs turned out great, they bring me joy every time I see them and they are comfortable to sit in. Even the cats enjoy them. I don't live in a "no touch" zone.

So while I may not want to pay $900 for stone finials (value thing, like Chispa), I don't mind paying $900 for something else.

Here is a link that might be useful: my os de mouton chair saga

mjsee

You could get the frame custom made and upholstered to your specs for significantly less than the cost of that sofa, check with upholsterers in your area.

mjsee, I agree w/pal -- there are several local furniture makers in our area and when our daughter's gone (and thus the need for the Ikea Tylosand in the family room : )), I plan to have a local company make some beautiful furniture for us, designed and sized and upholstered *exactly* as we want it. And it will be less than a retailer, since you're not paying retail overhead.

Well I do like some of their individual items, mainly lighting, though the scale is overwhelming. Though our home isn't small I'm sure it would overtake the rooms. It's more the over all drab color scheme that really bothers me. Plain and simple, I need color. Their prices would stop me cold too.
Case in point, though I don't think my Target version is quite as awesome as RHs, but it works for me and it is real wood.
RH Tripod table lamp @ $350.00 on sale, down from $425.00

My Target tripod table lamp @ $24.99 plus $14.97 Walmart shade.

Pal--thanks! I will look into it. "My" upholster doesn't make frames...but does an excellent job with re-upholstering. I OUGHT to go over to Hickory Chair and see what they have in the way of frames. It's not that far.

Justgotabeme---I like the target version BETTER. Simpler, fewer gew-gaws. I wish I had my grandfather's surveying tripod...it would have made an awesome floor lamp...alas, their condo burned and it was ruined. (No one was in it at the time...so all that was lost was stuff.)