What colors do you like? How is the rest of the room decorated with regards to color? The rug, floors, windows, furniture, etc? Everything needs to work together as a whole. For example you could even paint a saturated dark color on the walls if everything else in the room is light and bright. Also what colors do YOU like? Narrow it down that way. I'd say though to go more saturated in whatever color you choose as it will look richer that way.

Thank you very much! Could you explain to me what you mean by a saturated color? I am not sure what that means in regards to paint..Do you mean a deeper shade of whatever is already in the room? If it makes the room look richer I will try it once I know what it is, lol. Thanks again.

Hi Abbey! One of the easier ways to pick a color scheme is find a piece of fabric, or a decorative plate, or something you want to put in the room that you LOVE. Then pick your colors from that. In a dining room, you might start with your drapes. Or your chair seat covers. Or if you have a hutch that shows your china, pick the colors from your china. Or you could use a favorite painting you want to hang in there. Take it with you to the paint store, and use it to find your colors.

Have you looked at the Dining Rooms and Living Rooms threads in our Gallery? They're loaded with inspirational photographs of scrumptious rooms. Close this thread and look for a link to the Gallery at the bottom of the page, then enjoy all the room threads over there. You'll get tons of ideas.

I often use the Gallery just to answer my questions, such as "what should I put on my coffee table?" I go look at the Living Rooms thread and within a few minutes I know exactly what I've already got that I can use.

There are also color threads over there such as "Reds," and "Greens" and so on. You will find gorgeous photos of rooms painted those colors, and the exact names of the paint colors used.

Anyway, that should get your creative juices flowing!

It means intense vs thin or pale - jewel colors vs pastels, but really almost any 'color' can be sat'd vs weak. Very opaque (as if many layers were used, but almost as if a light were turned on behind it).

A dim room will always be a dim room unless measures are taken to change the quantity of light present. i.e. add more windows facing additional geographical directions or add artificial lights.

Most people don't want to have to live with lights on during the day.

Saturation is a good point. Saturated color is color where restraint has been used in knocking it back, graying it down. The saturated child color has close to the same characteristic of vibrancy as it's hue parent. Or, could say it this way, it's a more pure color as opposed to dull or muted color.

Saturation is important in low light, dim inherent light situations because it is the factor of saturation that can *bust through* the dimness to deliver a more robust sense of colorfulness to your eyeball.

Saturated colors are a good fit for rooms with a dim quality of natural light.

Any hue will work in any exposure. You are not limited to exclusively "warm" colors if you have dim light. You just have to find the right paint color with the right pitch of saturation and nuance to partner with the quality of light you have to work with.

Here's a link that delves deeper into the topic -- maybe too deep, but hopefully it helps explain things a bit further.

Here is a link that might be useful: What you need to know about natural light and paint colors

I'd try a light yellow. It looks great with dark wood, is light but not white, and looks great with white trim. I used that in our last house and many times when someone is putting their house on the market and wants a neutral color that does not read plain or boring.

It is a cheerful color which is helpful in a darker room.

In my current house, I used it in one hallway that is not full of natural light and it looks very nice. It changes as the day goes on with different amounts of ambient light or when the overheads are on. Our new space will have high ceilings and skylights and windows, so we are actually considering a dark color to tone it down a bit. I am a little sad that we aren't using more yellow, but we do have the hallway, lol.

Saturated color means more intense pure color that is not as grayed down. The more you gray a color down (make it duller) the less bright it will look. In a dark room you can go with a more intense (more saturated) color. So to use an example just pulled from two of the bm fan books, if you decided you liked a bright green, I'd choose something like BM malachy green 419 over something like BM stem green 2029-40. The stem green has more gray in it which will dull it down a bit in a room.

Now please understand, I'm not saying you need to go quite as bright as the malachy green and in actuality, you might find a stem green is bright enough, but the idea is to look for "cleaner" colors, those with less gray/black in them.
This same idea goes whether the color is lighter or darker. First though you need to decide what colors you personally like best. What are you drawn to? what colors do you wear? Start from there and then we can give you suggestions.

funcolors said: "Saturation is a good point. Saturated color is color where restraint has been used in knocking it back, graying it down. The saturated child color has close to the same characteristic of vibrancy as it's hue parent. Or, could say it this way, it's a more pure color as opposed to dull or muted color."

Did you mean to say:

Saturated color is color where restraint has NOT been used in knocking it back, graying it down.

No. There are varying degrees, levels, steps of saturation. If you're restrained in the process of knocking back a color off its original intensity, then it will lean more saturated than dulled. NOT using restraint in dulling or knocking back a color moves the color closer to neutrality - which is not saturated.

Further, saturation isn't the only concern when it comes to inherent light. Value also plays an important role. The consideration of both *parts* of color, saturation and value, can be referred to as nuance. With three-dimensional architectural color, the idea is to partner the right pitch of nuance with inherent light sources so it meets expectations and appeals to personal color tolerances.

When I was contemplating what to do with my small, north-facing, interior room, complete with one small, shaded window...someone told me the room will always be small and dark no matter what I do.

Small and dark. I can work with that. (We have other rooms that a bit bigger and a lot brighter so this is our "calm" room.)

We stripped out the 1970s shag carpet and refinished the beautiful original white oak floors. They're a medium brownish varition of "wood" color. I think they're beautiful.

We painted the room. An extrememly dark, rich red. FIVE coats of extrememly dark, rich red were applied before the color sang to me. I think they're beautiful.

I painted the ceiling and the upper 1/3-1/4 of the walls a camel/tan/beige color. It's rich ,I guess, saturated.

I still have to repaint the crown molding, picture rail, baseboard and trim. It's stark white now and needs to be warmed up just a bit. I'm eventually going to add a rich patterned area rug with reds, tans, golds, and greens.

My room is small and dark. It's also alive with rich color and interest. We made it into our computer room/den. There's one wing back recliner in here. This is the coolest room in the summer; the warmest room in the winter, and the perfect room and chair for napping.

Put some color on your walls...the color you love. Add a lamp; love your room.

If there is any way to post a photo, that could be very helpful -- the wall of wood planks sounds gorgeous. Since you say you have a lot of dark wood, I think it would be good to embrace the darkness and go with a deep color and make it an enveloping, warm room. But that's me. Others here that have lots of dark trim have gone with a type of off-white and it's beautiful. So if you can post a photo, do so and then see if we can help you more.

wow! Thanks for all of the help. No pics sorry! It is a north facing room, so it is rather dark even though it has 2 large windows. I was leaning towards yellow, but as you all know it is very hard to find the just right yellow. So I have gone back to the paint store and got some more paint strips to play around with before I get any samples. I am now leaning towards an ivory/off white or maybe a nice beige unless I can find the right yellow. Don't think I am brave enough for a dark color, lol, although it sounds lovely. Just one more question. How do I know if a color is saturated? Or how do I make it saturated? It sounds like a good idea for my room, but I don't understand what needs to be done to achieve it? When it comes to paint I am clueless! Thanks again.

Abbey

Saturation is how pure the color is. A fully saturated color is the truest version of that color. The less black or white in the color the more saturated the color is. Once you add black and/or white you are definitely changing the value of the color. If you add the complement you again are changing the saturation and the value of the color. OR to put it in laymens terms, the less saturated the color, the more "muddy" it will look.

from wikipedia: In subtractive color (i.e. paints) value changes can be achieved by adding black or white to the color. However, this also reduces saturation.

Saturation and value are inextricably tied. Yet each can be calculated, measured, and mapped separately. Both in the additive space as well as the subtractive: the Hue, Saturation, and Lightness cone, Munsell tree, NCS Color System, and more.

Again, with regard to architectural color, not necessarily an artist's focused mind-set of color as it translates to canvas, people oftentimes do not consider both *parts*, saturation and value.

Usually when it comes to selecting wall color, they see clean color or dirty color. Or, light and dark. Those individual parts are often considered separately - hyper-focusing on one while practically ignoring the other.

The selection of yellow wall color is the perfect example. People look at how light or dark the yellow is with little to no regard for how "bright" it is. As a result they end up with lemon yellow walls when they were wanting a much softer yellow like a stick of butter.

LRV, light reflectance value is yet another perfect example of how the separation of saturation and value occurs in architectural color world; it begins from the popular starting point of a paint fandeck. LRV is listed, yet there is no acknowledgment of intensity. LRV speaks strictly to how light or how dark a color literally is; how much light is absorbed and conversely how much is reflected.

How that's implemented throughout the architectural world varies. One example is homeowner's associations. They often will have color specifications in place, rules for color options for the community that are based on a LRV range. Like 40 - 70. They are counting on that color specification to protect the community from garish color choices. When in fact, since there is no spec given or mandatory consideration directed to saturation or intensity, a "bright" or "vivid" color could very well fit into that singular specification of LRV 40-70. Sherwin William's Lime Rickey has a LRV of 45. Fits that spec of 40 - 70, but it's not a color that should ever be used exterior unless you live in an amusement park.

The ICI/Dulux (now Azko-Nobel) fandeck is the only architectural color resource that addresses the factor of intensity in its notations. Every other paint manufacturer's color collection offers one data point which is LRV. So they too have a tendency to focus on one *part* of color at a time instead of nuance which can be defined as Nuance = LRV + Saturation.

Funcolors I do know about the munsell tree, hue, saturation etc as I have an art school background and I was a textile and wallpaper designer for over 20 years. (although I admit you got me on the LRV range.) I started school majoring in interior design but fell in love with textiles. I retired 10 years ago and have been a fine artist since then and a published artist (my book is on amazon) and my book discusses color extensively (though on a basic level as my book is a how to book).

I think sometimes we get too caught up in all the technicalities and while those are fine for those of us with art backgrounds most of the folks here just want to have a basic understanding of how and why the colors they love will look on their walls. We who have had more training sometimes get a bit too technical.

I am also an art instructor and I find that people's eyes will glaze over when I get into too much detail. Heck, my eyes glaze over!

For most of us, it's easier to keep to the basics. Basics would be things like how a certain color might be too bright on the wall because it has no gray or white in it. Or how most colors on those tiny chips wind up looking darker and more intense on the wall. Or how sometimes an analogous color scheme will be just the ticket while other times the person might really want a complementary color scheme. :)

Like saturation and value, color and residential paints are inextricably tied as well.

Here, on this forum, they have to be addressed together. Because architectural coatings are a huge part of how environments are colored. Paint, architectural coatings do have a technical side. It is unavoidable. In order to mange the *funner* color portion, it helps to understand the technical as well. Detailing specific examples of those more technical instances helps people better understand essential information. i.e. choosing a yellow that is brighter than expected is one of the more common color choice mistakes people make.

The typical color theories that many artists subscribe to and support do not necessarily translate seamlessly to three-dimensional structure. In fact, not as much as you would think actually applies from the world of fine arts or is useful when it comes to coloring the built environment and human response.

With structure, the reason why a paint color may or may not read with a certain characteristic once it's up on all the walls does not hinge 100% on the actual paint color; much of how that color materialize and contributes to creating an atmosphere that reads as too bright, too dull, or just right depends on inherent light sources and individual color tolerances.

All the technical stuff about color is interesting makes my head spin! I wish I could grasp it a bit better. ;)

Abbey - It sounds like your dining room is similar to many rooms in my house. We are in the middle of the woods, have low light, and all med-to-dark brown trim that leans orange. (We'd have already painted it white by now, to make wall color selection easier, but we have practically brand new vinyl replacement windows that can't be painted.)

We have found that warmer colors work well. Our dining room/kitchen is BM Straw. A designer helped us pick it out; she thought we needed a sunny color. Our living room is Ellen Kennon Honeysuckle. (We would have probably chosen Honeysuckle for our dining room, too, but I don't like the way the ICI/Dulux paint cleans up.)

By the way, our dining room was formerly Ellen Kennon's Buttercream, and while it was a lovely color, it didn't do much for the space. It was too weak - don't know how to describe it other than that. The stronger, more saturated, BM Straw is much better.

Our bedroom is another dim space, especially in the summer when the trees are leafed out. It is currently painted a darker, somewhat muted or muddy green, which is leftover from the previous owner. While it works with the wood, it feels to dark to me. I need a brighter and airier space. Plus I think the green is too repetitious of what I see outside my windows.

We have another room in the house which I painted a blue, Benjamin Moore Smoke. While it is a lovely color, I don't like it with our brown trim, plus it looks dirty on our walls, especially at night. Personally, I haven't found too many cool colors that look good with brown trim in a house set in the middle of the woods. I don't know if it's the quality or lack of natural light or if it's the brown trim, but that is our experience.

I've been looking at using a cafe au lait color for our bedroom, but haven't sampled one yet. I THINK that may look good with certain shades of stained trim.

Hope something here is helpful! Good luck choosing. Please let us know what you decide!

once again, thanks to all for the advice. Kimberly I will have to try the BM Straw. I have a friend who told me I had to pick a warm color because of all the wood, and it sounds like you found the same thing. So back to the paint store I go. Looking for warm colors. With all of your help I am sure I will find something to brighten up my living room/dining room.

Abbey

"The typical color theories that many artists subscribe to and support do not necessarily translate seamlessly to three-dimensional structure. In fact, not as much as you would think actually applies from the world of fine arts or is useful when it comes to coloring the built environment and human response."

Some is. However the world of wallpaper would translate very well since wallpaper is used on...walls! Not only that, but many times with wallpaper we're talking about combining several colors.

BTW: to the last poster, I think your straw color would be a great choice. As for blues, have you looked at blues with a slightly more green tint to them? Maybe more in the teal family?

I agree, various theories can be applied to the built environment in specific instances.

Wallpaper, however, is subject to the same affects of inherent light and dimension as paint. Just because the colorway within the wallpaper pattern is pleasing and harmonious its own two-dimensional existence, doesn't guarantee it going to translate well into context covering the proportions, the walls of a three-dimensional room and its unique atmosphere.

Concepts of color do get confusing. In order to grasp it better you have to be introduced to the parts you don't know - you can't understand thoughts and theories you don't even know exist.

If we're never exposed to new and maybe *bigger* thoughts on color beyond our own comfort zones, then nothing's ever going to change. No one learns anything, no one moves forward.

Suggesting paint color names is very helpful. As many of you know, I've done plenty of that around here too. When there are opportunities to explore further past paint color names and numbers, perhaps we should take 'em. And I don't mind pushing for that because this is a public forum, after all, and people are free to stop and read, respond, or just SCOB (scroll on by).

Abbey - hopefully something like BM Straw will work for you.

Thanks, cpartist, I'll look at blues with more green in them. I don't know why I haven't thought of that, but it does make sense!

Funcolors, I don't post much, but I lurk a lot, and I ALWAYS appreciate reading your color suggestions and the reasons behind them. Thanks!

Abbey...did you make any decisions yet? Did you try the BM straw??

hi Loribee,
Thanks for asking! Been a busy weekend so haven't made it back to the paint store yet. That will be first thing tomorrow and I am anxious to see the paint chip for the BM Straw. It looks good on my computer but we all know how the colors on computers can be!

Abbey

AHA! No wonder why the light purple in our guest room looks dull and the room looks dark--it's got too much grey in it. The room does not get a lot of natural light thanks to trees. Oh well, that will be next summer's project, and I'm sure I'll be looking for paint suggestions then. At least I know where to start looking at colors. I was thinking of a pale green, but clearly one without a lot of grey in it.

Gosh I learn so much here! Thanks.

Fix for broken link above:

Here is a link that might be useful: What you need to know about natural light and paint colors

Go for any color with a lighter tone.. more towards the white. You go for cream white, off white tones and mix two of them. If you want to make it look more towards the classic style, add wooden parameters to the lower walls. More importantly, go for a white mesh for windows that allows maximum light to enter the room and looks very graceful.

LED is a very nice option as well. :)