Tell his mother it's a cop out to tell him he's gone to his dad's. How many times has she told him that?

I see it wrong on a few levels...

First, nothing tells a child your love is conditional like threatening to get rid of them. It's almost right up there with 'I shouldn't have had kids' or as my mom once said, "I only wanted two kids" when I was #3. Kids need to know they are loved unconditionally and can count on parents when they do make mistakes.

Second, is dad a horrible person? Is it a horrible place to be sent? How is it right to threaten them to send them to the other parent? Maybe that's what he wants... A parent cannot make a threat they aren't willing to follow through with. That's an empty threat. Kids learn quickly when parents do that, they can get away with it.

He's 14 and some of this is normal teen behavior. Teens are rebellious by nature. Getting arrested is not and his parents need to deal with that. Bouncing him back & forth between his parents is a bad plan. It's like saying 'you deal with him' and the other parent saying 'no, you deal with him' and meanwhile, nobody is dealing with him and he's robbing liquor stores by 16. The parents need to get it together.

Most teenage boys are notorious for being difficult to raise ~ mine was. He did just about everything you could think of, i.e., skipping school until he was not allowed to go back and I had to pay for him to go to a private school, his room was a disaster (I closed the door and let it be rather than fight about it), ran away once (he & a friend had planned to go all the way across the country), his BD had him arrested and put in the diversion center (they released him to me), talked disrespectable to me once (his SD came close to beating his butt for that). I could go on but you get the picture. Other family members suggested I put him in the boot camp thing. I couldn't do it. Just loved him through it and at times he wasn't very lovable. I'm sure there was many times my DH wasn't real happy he was there but he was willing to deal with him for my sake. I made him do chores for his spending money. He didn't have a car until he bought his own with help from his GP's. When he graduated we let him & a friend move into one of our rentals at a reduced rate. He paid the rent early every month and has never asked us for anything, never got in any trouble. He's 33 now and a wonderful person, married an adorable girl 12 years ago, bought a home and just had their first child. He will probably end up taking care of me when I'm old and difficult.

All of this to say sometimes you just have to get through the teen years, raise him the best you can and hope for the best. What does your DW say about you wanting to send him to go to his dad's? As long as he's surfing the web he's not on the streets getting into something. Yes, he should help keep things clean but teens usually don't see the need for that. Once my son got his own place it was amazing how clean he kept it. As for having time to yourself, you & his DM can go out without him. Fourteen year olds can stay by themselves. Put him a computer in his room with the proper controls on it so he doesn't get into serious trouble on it. Stay in your bedroom for a while if you get tired of being around him. Most teenages WANT to be in their own room if they have something to do, such as watch TV, listen to 'their' music, surf the web, have friends in, etc. Trust me it can be tough to raise them but it can be done. You just have to be dedicated to the cause and love him until he outgrows that stage.

chatvmax.....I have been blessed with a wonderful son. He is now 16. He has never been in trouble with the law, talks to me about many things that are going on in his life and for the most part is very respectful to me, my DH and the world in general. He is, however, pretty sloppy. I have to constantly remind him to put things away, shut the cupboard doors, turn off the lights and so on. How irritated those things make me really depends on what kind of day I'm having. Sometimes I get really tired of it other times I don't mind as much. I think that those things are pretty much the nature of the beast and if you were to talk to your mom about how you were at that age you might find out that she had issues with those things too.

When the law is involved the behavior becomes something totally different. I don't quite know what I would do if my son broke the law in such a way but I do know that HIS life would change considerably.

I personally would not like the visitation set up as yours is if I felt such tension with a SC. I would want to have some down time from my job while he was with his father over the weekend. Is it possible to do an EOWE thing with the father? Does his dad have the same troubles as you are having while he is there?......I think that you are tired of him and resent him. I can understand that if he is disrespectful to you and has the attitude that you are just the bill payer and nothing more. I might want to show him just how tightly I could manage the money where he was concerned if he thought that I was delegated to that job only.

Does mom try and manage his attitude? Is she as tired of it as you are?

I find that my DH is much less tolerant of my DS16 and his bad habits than he is his own DD10. Yes there is a 6 year age difference but a mess is a mess and lights left on are still lights left on.

It sounds to me like you need a break and maybe some family counseling. The teen years are hard, for many reasons. Pick your battles and try to relax if you can.

I would be careful with giving him a lot of computer time as has been suggested. The computer is full of trouble for teens looking for it and it sounds like you SS might be.

I forgot to mention that my DS16 has started to smoke. His girlfriend does and so does her family. I am an ex smoker of about 13 years. I am really ticked about this. I have told him many things during our discussions concerning this and one of them is that he'd better get used to me bit#$ing at him about it because as long as I smell it on him I'm going to complain about it. I didn't' quit all those years ago just to have to live with the smell because he has decided to be stupid now.

Like the previous posters, I don't agree with threatening to send him to his dad's if he's in trouble again. IMO, a kid who's getting into trouble needs an emotionally safe and secure environment to get their act together. So unless you can honestly say that Dad's is an emotionally safer and more secure place for SS to pull it together, that would not likely be in his best interests.

Teens are inherently messy. Cleanliness is rarely high on their priority lists.
Now, that doesn't mean that I think teens should be allowed to be disrespectful to everyone else in the home by leaving destruction in their wake. When I was a teen (I'm 27 now) my room was MY space to leave whatever disaster I wanted, provided it wasn't going to break any health codes. When out of my room, I was expected to pick up after myself and participate in the upkeep of the house. I'd say that helping with chores took about 15 minutes a day on average.
Although I didn't care for doing chores at the time, in hindsight, I realize that having to help out gave me more respect for the shared space and the family I shared it with.
Can you, DW and SS sit down to establish a certain level of commitment to shared-space upkeep for him? He won't likely be happy about it, but it might help with his mess-making.

Now, about stealing condoms... I may be in the minority on this, but I believe that parents of teens have a responsibility to provide them with birth control and sexual protection. Whether that is giving them information on where the local Planned Parenthood chapter is so that they can get free condoms, or paying for the pill, I believe parental involvement makes for sexually responsible teens. At 14, he may well be having sex, so at least he's using protection!!
I suggest that you and DW focus on the things that he could have done instead of steal condoms - talk to a parent, go to Planned Parenthood, ask his school guidance counselor where to get them, or pay for them (gasp!). Stealing is unacceptable, but think about what he stole and provide him with alternatives.

Lastly, get your butt to a counselor. Like you said, feeling hatred towards a family member is NOT good for you and you need to get it off your chest. A counselor can help you work through your resentment and feel better about it all.
Posting here can help too, but as a group, we believe that change within a family begins with the person who wants the change. Most of us here feel that if you want those around you to change, you have to start by changing yours own feelings and actions. So be honest with yourself about what you are willing to change about yourself if you want those around you to change themselves.

Chatmax,

Maybe you don't actually "hate" your SS but you clearly don't love him. Since you don't love him you don't have the patience and long view of a parent who loves their child would have. That's why you see him as taking up your time, you aren't in to him and his current behavior doesn't help.

Like the other people posting, I did not clean my room as a teen. It seems to me that the things you don't like, including the shoplifting, are par for the course for teens. But, he's not really Your teen. Since you don't want him with you and he probably knows it, should you and your DW discuss an alternative instead of threatening? When my SS was 14 DH and BM decided to have him live with DH, then my boyfriend, because they felt that the dad could handle an unruly male teenager better. Maybe it's time for SS to go to dad's, not as a punishment but as a way for him to be in the best environment.

DD always had a messy room and she still does. not good enough reason for hating her though. i understand your SS is difficult, but your own kids could turn out difficult. would you hate them? i think you need to go see someone about it, i understand you cannot be forced to love or even like the kid, but if you hate he will know it. i also wonder if it is actually better for the kid to go live wiht dad. could it be that atmosphere is less hostile at dads? what is your wife saying about it?

Well said Ceph!
I agree with her on all points --

(And yes, I bought my 14-y.o. son condoms so he would have them when the time came. They came with a long discussion about sexual responsibility, safety, ethics and decision-making, and a 'refresher pack' 2 years later.)

I have three step sons and two of my own. They are 23, 22 and 21. They all are adults and I must have been a pretty good step mom for the most part because each of them has asked to move back in with us! The 22 year old has a four year old daughter, he's a single dad w/ shared parenting, the 21 year old has a one year old son and girlfriend that live with her parents. The 22 year old works all he can when he isn't laid off. "Economy". He owns a house with the daughters mother who doesn't live there any more but helps to make the payments. It's up for sale but no one wants it. "economy again". He can't afford the utility bills or so he says and wants to live with us to save money. We've told him to just file backruptcy and let it go, go to court and get everything legalized with custody issues,or for a start at least go see if he could get food stamps, and get on the budget plan with utilities. He acts as if we know nothing! We barely have enough money to pay our own bills and I know it would cost alot more to have one of the kids living with us. Electric, gas, food, laundry etc... We did tell him that once he gets rid of his house he could live with us three months or so to save up for a down payment on rent somewhere. Or once he gets rid of his house and gets the custody thing situated if he wants to go to college full time he could live with us but he would have to work part time for his own food, insurance, gas money, etc... The other kid, the 21 year old isn't working, never holds a job for long and when he does have one, only works part time. There are a few jobs still in our area in fast food at least. He never graduated, won't get his GED, and his car was cosigned by his girlfriends grandma. The g/f works full time and they still never have money. He has lied, cheated and stolen, done pot pretty much all through his teenage years. We have over $300.00 in dental and vision bills that he racked up because he is on our insurance until he is 22 that he can't pay. I told him if I get forced to pay them then he will get reciepts of payment in leiu of Xmas or b-day gifts next year! We actually did give him a few months to live with us when he was 20 on the condition he went to GED classes. He went once and lied that he was going. And the kid is still always joking that he could live in our basement if his g/f ever kicks him out. Well, the kids have made their own choices in life so why should we have to give up our quality of life to help them when I don't even see them helping themselves. If i died tomorrow my husband would have them all living with him-kids and grandkids. He'd be cooking for them, doing their laundry and cleaning up after them for the rest of his life. I joke about it but he even admits he probably would be. My grandma asked me why we buy food for the one with the house when their are food stamps and food pantry's out there. He never asked us to buy it, we were trying to help. Now i see maybe she is right. Anyways, I just never planned on any of our ADULT children or even grandchildren living with us and it seems as though I'm stressed every single day because that is all they talk about! Any advice or opinions would be appreciated. I know how it feels to almost hate a stepson because the oldest won't even talk to me or his dad right now! Long story, but after pot, jail time, handguns, lying and being a bum we booted him out at 21. Now he lives with his mom at the age of 23, working part time in fast food. Still doing pot and hates us both. Oh well. I tried! I honestly did! I don't get parents now a days, letting their adult children live with them so they don't have to try to make an honest living or ever GROW UP! Don't get me wrong, my oldest biological son lives at his dads, he is 19, works full time, pays his own bills, plus some of the house bills. But he is saving money to buy a house next summer or fall! My youngest is 18, lives with us but is a full time student in college and lives on campus also. He works to help out with school! There isn't anything I wouldn't do for any of the kids as long as I can see them helping themselves and taking on some responsibility for their own choices in life!!!!

Lots of good advice and thoughts here and not much to add.
Yet if your feelings about your SS continue, you're probably going to end up in divorce court too.
His mother probably feels like she's in between a rock and a hard place. She loves both of you, but her son is the "cub" she'll protect over you.
Best figure out a way to resolve these issues before you're the one kicked to the curb.

Just another quick thing to say.
Do you HATE your SS or the things he's doing...big difference.

As harsh a reality as that is and it sometimes can be completely insane, Deborah is right about the "cub" thing. You better play it smart or else you will be kicked to the curb never the son. A son can be a spoilt, selfish, lazy and useless brat and the mother will still fend for the cub. He could even be a total pyscho and most mothers will fend very strongly. In this case he belongs to the former rather than the latter and this is the case most of the time.

I have a step son who is 13 and I am sending him to live with his Grandparents. I had to play it very smart to get this to occur. The step son uses me and shows no respect he never has. The first time he ever met me when he was 10 years old he asked me for money. He hits his grandfather and shouts at him when his grandfather tries to assert himself. This boy has run the joint ever since he was born. If he did something wrong, grandma would give him some candy or some money. His mother is a single mother and the father abandoned her and the son and daughter who is a fantastic girl turning 14 this year. She works her ass off and I have nothing but respect for what she has done since I got involved in their lives.

But the step-son is different and is actually undermining her development. This was especially so before I entered the picture when the daughter was a wreck always moaning and upset yet unable to verbalise her feelings. She was ignored while the step son who is useless in an economic sense continued to rule the roost.

Despite these kind of factors mothers will do anything to fend for the cub. My way of getting him to the grandparents was to argue that they give him what he wants, and that the cost of me disciplining him at this late stage is just to great. The house would be a warzone, a pitched battle between me and the step son to get him to take responsibility and to demonstrate respect for the fact that I dragged him and his entire family out of borderline poverty. He does not give a shit that I did that because he is no longer in control. When his family was poor they still spoilt him. They are still poor now mind you but they will never fall below the poverty line; i am their security guarantee. A 13 year old boy is old enough to understand this in theory. Especially the MASSIVE change in living standards. They lived in a 'house' the size of a small bathroom with 6 people and rats running around it. I pulled them out and all i get is used by the step son who actually prefers the old life because he was the boss and did whatever he wants. When I tried to control him it became war and instead of continuing it I said to his mother, you know what, he now knows that he can not beat his elderly grandfather and shout at him (because I grabbed him by the throat when he did it). With that control mechanism in place, he knows that if he does it again I will take it further because that is just beyond the pale, beating or hitting and screaming at your grandfather who loves you and kept you alive slaving in a factory for 60 hours a week for a paltry 25 dollars for the entire week...So with that being said, I argued that he should go to the grandparents for now, they love him and will spoil him gladly and he will be very happy as he can do whatever he wants. Me on the other hand, I want to vomit when I see it and refuse to do it. The cost of trying to get him to play ball in society is not worth the result because he is not my son. But my argument to the mother was not that, because I would have triggered the 'cub defence mechanism' that is inbuilt in all mothers. My argument was simple:

(1) he will be loved and there will be no real conflict

(2) the grandparents love him to pieces and are happy to take him

(3) he will be happy there and you (the mother) will not have to worry about me disciplining your son anymore

(3) (i actually most left this part out though) her daughter can focus on her study without her brother and grandfather taking over the house with their bullshit (grandfather cooks fried pork fat hotdogs and fried chicken for step son every morning) the daughter eats it because it is what is there - that will change when the step son and grandfather go back to the grandmother's house.

Moral of the story is if you want to get rid of a step son you have to make it benefit him 90% + with very little downside to him personally; in my case it helps that he never liked me despite what I did to get him out of poverty. So easier to get rid him. Also I pay the bills. Depending on what your situation is you have to tailor your reasons accordinly, but if you want to succeed you must make getting rid of him a plus for him personally and not for yourself. Otherwise you will trigger 'mother cub mechanism' and it is GAME OVER if you do that.

Find a way to make getting rid of him a net benefit for him and make sure that he is in a safe loving environment. You won't succeed in having him go to a less safe environment because that will trigger the mother.

BE VERY SMART and capitalise on ANY viable opening you might have.

First off, is he the only 14 yr old in the house? Do you remember being 14? Hormones raging, no direction, "No One Knows What I'm Going Through"! You have been there and done that (don't ever say that, by the way!), and should remember what it was that made you happy. Granted it is a little different now with all the social media crap, but being involved with your kid is what makes a difference. find out what he likes, and get involved with that, find out what he does not like and help him with that too! Don't try to be his dad, he has one, be the person he can go to for advice, for help, or just because he want's to talk (not to be talked to). The most important thing, is that he knows you care, and are willing to be there when he needs you, because he will! I am a father of a step son, he was 4 when I came into his life, and now he is 30 and doing great. Also, I never called him my "Step-son" he was my son, that I got to share with his dad!