well, honestly all i can say is you should hav ediscussed your EXACT power requirements before the drywall went up. in most cases it costs way more to do it with a seal wall than it does when the wall cavity is still open.

as to teh cheapest, easiest solution, that will depend on who does it and what the going rate in your area is.

Well, at the time we first saw the house, it already had dry wall, so we didn't have much choice in the matter. Just trying to get the most out of this kitchen, if possible.

When you say "depend on who does it", David, would you please clarify who generally will cost less and still do a good job? Basically, if I want it done now, I have the pay the builder's fees. If I wait until later, it'll probably cost a lot more, since I'd have to rip out the walls, right?

who does it means which electrician you hire to get it done.

one word of warning, most good electricians will be busy and may not can get to you for a while. many ONLY do commercial work also. DO NOT HIRE A HANDYMAN TO DO THESE JOBS!!! get a licensed, certified, and insured electrician to do it. i know you want cheap, but when it comes to electrical cheap up front may mean expensive later.

unfortunately, as you are learning, changes after things start going in mean BIG bucks. heck some contractors intentionally bid out at below expected cost knowing they can gouge you with teh change orders.

you really should have stated all this to the builder IN WRITING before now. it can be done at any time, but the price goes up drastically as the job gets harder.

And if you do it now, the costs can be included in your mortgage. They will come out of your pocket later, it cash on hand is tight.

You are butting up against "normal" practice when it comes to builders. Especially the big builders. You go through a model home, or through a partially constructed home and all you see is how nice it looks and what a great floor plan it is. Rarely does the buyer look at things close enough to see if ceiling fan provisions were made, enough outlets, home networking, home theater, telephone and cable/satellite outlets, wiring for your specific needs, etc. When you find this out and need the changes made, the change orders are very expensive and now they have a reason to put off the completion date of the home. You're totally at their mercy. But you might as well do it the way you want now. As long as the price is reasonable. (reasonable doesn't necessarily mean cheap either)

elee

i looked at the geo monogram double wall oven just as an example to see what it requires. for this double oven - you need a single 40 amp, 240 volt supply. what color is the cable at that point? if orange, then i think that is a 30 amp max (electricans on line please confirm) , if black then you might be in luck. two ovens - one cable.

now you can add a warning drawer - but the spec says ypu would need a separate 15 amp circuit for that.

as far as thousands to add these lines, a lot depends on what is below. do you have a basement area below the kitchen that provides access? if so - then thousands to add a circuit for a warming drawer and another circuit for under sink to power diposal and instant hot seems outrageous. it sounds to me like the builder just does not want to deal with any changes.

i would get a seperate bid - call in a pro and get a price. if you have a basement with access below, i would expect the answer to be in the hundreds of dollars to add in 2 circuits. if you don't have easy access - then that is another thing.

i would definately add the wiring in now. doing it later after cabinets are in will be a pain and cost more. what you are asking for is not unreasonable.

Thanks so much, sniffdog! YES! As a matter of fact, the kitchen is directly above the basement, AND the circuit box is exactly one floor below, in about the same place as where these wall ovens are located. Is the circuit box what I'm looking for in determining where this new line will be routed from? If so, it's not far at all! I think you're right in saying that the builder really doesn't want to deal with changes; he just wants to finish the house as he planned and be done with it.

Unfortunately, when we first saw the house recently, the dry wall was already up and the kitchen cabinets were in place. The parts of the house that were done are quite nice, but we were concerned with how it would be finished - that all important last 10%, so to speak. Well, the builder's big selling point was that by making an offer now, about a month before construction is completed, we would still have a say in choosing appliances, kitchen and bath fixtures, lighting, crown molding, paint colors, etc. Great! So we made an offer.

Basically, I really don't want the double ovens that he's planned, since I hardly use the oven as it is. In its place, I'd like a single oven and a steam oven, which both require separate 240V connections, I think, since they're two separate units. (He already has one line there that he says is enough for the double ovens.) Below that, I'd like a warming drawer, which I guess is another line, but only 120V.

Under the sink, I'd need a dedicated line for the garbage disposal, and I think just a simple outlet for the hot drinking water dispenser.

Please HELP ME UNDERSTAND - just how hard is it really to bring up these additional lines from the basement directly below, since the dry wall and cabinets are already in place? What does it take? (For instance, if I bought an already-completed house, is it virtually impossible to add extra electrical without incurring excessive charges?) At this point, we can still walk away from the deal (and lose the inspection and attorney fees). (Maybe I should find another house that's before the drywall stage, since there are definitely specific appliances that I'd love to have in my kitchen... As cobraguy said, I just saw the pretty house and never before realized about these "hidden" issues!) Thanks, everyone!

for the below sink outlet, that should not be an issue. they would need to drill a hole from below through the cabinet base. probably need to put the wire into metal conduit and attach a box to the back of the cabinet. instead of using a recessed box, you could use a non recessed box. since the box is inside the cabinet - do you care if the conduit and box is visible running up the back inside wall of the cabinet? probably ok. and yes - the wire would run over to the main service panel in the basement.

the wall oven will take a little more work since the box will most likely need to be recessed into the wall to make room for the oven. for that - they need to drill a hole from below that runs up the back of the drywall. you can locate the spot since there is already a cable running up in that same location. the good news is that you can take out some drywall in the back of the wall oven to help with the snaking of the wire since the wall will be covered up once the oven goes in. a pro will be able to do this cleanly - it isn't that big of a deal as long as you have access from below.

the only question i would have is whether your service can handle the second 240 volt (I am presuming 40 amp) circuit. that is a question for the electrician who will look at your panel to determine if you have enough room and a big enough service to handle both ovens.

the bottom line is that you can add the additional cables through the basement and i would expect a quote in the hundreds of dollars - maybe 500 to 700 or so - to add 1 240 volt circuit and 1 15 amp circuit assuming that you already have enough capacity at the main service panel to add these. i base these on my costs for similar items but it was for new construction - so i added some extra to handle the work required to work around the cabinets and walls. i had an entire sub panel added (a second panel tied off the main panel) for 400 dollars and a second 240 volt circuit for a dryer added for 90 dollars - just to give you an idea.

i would not expect a quote in the thousands - that sounds like the builder is trying to scare you away from doing it. get a licensed electrician to give you a quote and get what you want.

If you can still walk away and only lose the inspection and attorney's fees I think you have the uppper hand in negotiating with the builder. Houses are not easy to sell now days because it's not easy to find qualified buyers. In this case I'm sure the builder is already counting his profits and does not want to see a buyer walk away.
I am not suggesting that you take advantage of the builder, but that you just make him be a little more reasonable.
I would suggest that you hint that you are having 2nd thoughts over this house because it's not turning out the way that you want it. I think if he hears that he should be willing to work with you on any reasonalble requests.
You will have to be willing to pay for any extras and/or modifications, but only have to pay a reasonable cost. Either he can have the electrican in or you can bring in another licensed person.
As someone suggested earlier, the things that you have described should be in the hundreds and not thousands of dollars.

Is the basement finished? If not, this really doesn't sound like much of a job to add the circuits you want. In fact, you could even switch to a larger main (if you have room) and not cost "thousands". But I would be surprised if your service isn's sufficient for your needs. I'm no sparky, but seriously...with the main panel and an open basement below the kitchen, this should be considered a gravy job.

THANKS so much to you all! The basement will be finished, but it's not painted yet. Right now it does has drywall up. I think we've been too nice and trusting with this builder. Now I will double check everything he said on this forum, since it appears that he's just saying whatever he wants to shut us up!

Eleeny,
When you said the basement was not finished others on the forum assumed you meant that drywall or ceiling were not up. Finished in the construction business does not mean it's not painted. It means the walls and ceilings are not closed in.
So, if have walls and ceilings are in place it would definitley be more of a job. Someone is going to have to make some holes and then someone will have to come in after and repair the holes. That is going to add to the cost.

Yeah, unfortunately, the basement does have drywall and ceiling. The electrical circuit box is located directly below the kitchen where I need the additional lines. Same wall, just lower down.

Coolvt (or anyone else) - by "more of a job" and "add to the cost", about how much more difficult and how much more cost do you think it will be? Double the price? Still in the hundreds, or thousands?

If you allow the electrician to just hack holes where he needs to, then his work would go pretty quickly as mentioned before.
Then comes the cost or repairing what he hacked up.
If it's just in one wall and the ceiling, I would think that you could easily get that repaired for $200-$500.

the consensus seems to be that drywall repairs are usually cheaper (and easier) than having an electrician fish wire without damage to the wall

I'm guessing this is your first house, welcome to the world of home ownership. I sympathize with your concerns, but it doesn't sound like the builder is out of bounds on this one. Having the drywall and cabinets in the kitchen definitely adds to the labor and materials for additional power. Having the basement finished also adds to the cost. I would have a professional, bonded electrician come and bid the electric and have the builder find someone to patch it. He may be willing to work with you in that regard. But he would be doing you a favor.

As far as the garbage disposer, I'm surprised that is even an option these days. Do you have a dishwaser in the kitchen? Most installs I've seen have them sharing a circuit.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

Thanks for all of your help. We're in the process of going to contract on this house, but it may fall through at this point, since the builder is totally uncooperative and has been trying to nickel-and-dime us on every single fixture left in the house. Arrrggghhh! I'm so disappointed!

Lots of builders with tons of houses. You may be better off. He's paying for a construction loan and doesn't want to prolong the closing of your home.

Hiring your own professional electrician to come do what you want prior to close of escrow is not a consideration. There is no way in the world the builder would allow that unless you were willing to pay the guy out of your own pocket, pay for any additional inspections, and all this prior to you actually owning the home.

If you really like the place and have some money invested why not see if you can agree on an extension of the contract and get a knowledgable person to approach the builder. As cobraguy has said, this is going to be more of a loss and a mess for the builder than for you. It doesn't sound like you are all that far apart with the builder on these few items and it would be too bad to walk away unless you are convinced that he has done a bad job on the house and you will not feel comfortable owning it. I really think a compromise could be worked out.

Sometimes walking away is the best option if you can't come to terms. When I was buying a new townhouse 26 years ago, we were very close. The only sticking point in the Purchase and Sale was a finished basement option which at the time was only about $2500. The developer didn't think he could finish the basement by the closing date but insisted we pay the full amount at closing - we should trust him to do the work. My lawyer insisted that we either hold back half the money or move the closing date - both reasonable options. After spending 6 hours in their lawyers office hammering out the wording to withhold the money, the seller adamantly refused to sign. We walked away and quite frankly I was relieved - I had started having other misgivings about the house. My lawyer told me things happen for the best. Their realtor kept calling me for months, trying to get me back and telling me to fire my lawyer and they would sell to me. Yeah, right!

I took my time and looked at other places and ended up finding one I liked a lot better in a better location (a little more expensive) and have been living here for 26 years now. Good luck.

weissman...your builder was an idiot in that case. That's known as a hold back...and lenders and title companies (for title insurance reasons) don't allow it unless it's weather related. (not applicable in a basement!) When they do allow it, the title company will insist on a 1.5 times the contract amount be held until work is inspected and signed off. Hold backs are very rare these days. Of course, rereading your post I see that was 26 years ago...and times are definitely different now. So maybe that was generally allowed back then.

cobraguy - yes the builder and his real estate agent were idiots - because he wouldn't let us hold back about $1250 or delay the closing a week or two, he lost a sale and the place remained unsold for months and probably cost him more in carrying costs.

I'm surprised about your statement that holdbacks are fairly rare now. In those days it was standard to hold back some money if you had a punchlist at the closing to ensure the developer would finish the punchlist. In fact, at the house I ended up buying I didn't hold any money back because the developer seemed really nice and the punchlist was fairly small but once we closed, it was like pulling teeth to get him to complete the punchlist. What do people do these days - delay the closing until everything is done or just trust the developer?

Holdbacks are allowed...but rare. And almost always need to be weather related. There are certain percentages that are allowed too. The type of mortgage can dictate what's allowed. Conventional, VA, FHA, Bond, etc. It can get complicated at best. But basically, they want the house completed before close of escrow. And NEVER should they allow a file to close if a safety item isn't completed. So yes...if you notice something on the final walk through, it needs to be complete before closing. Anything noticed after that is dependant upon the integrity of the builder (or his subs) to be completed.