Hmmm.

I don't know.

I can tell you that my SS has been known to play situaitons up, particularly with BM. BUT--DH and I can see so clearly why he does it. Ever since he was little, and I mean two or three years old, he would say something to BM about something at our house and DH would fly into a tizzy.

Screaming, ranting, raving, hollering at DH and all the while telling SS "Mommy loves you soooo much, Mommy will protect you!"

I am talking about the most mundane things. "Daddy made me eat cereal for breakfast and I hate cereal."

"My poor baby is being force-fed terrible food! How awful! How DARE YOU Daddy?!!!"

"Daddy wouldn't let me have a snack, even though I didn't eat ANY of my dinner. He said I had to eat some of my dinner before I could have some cookies!"

"MY baby is STARVING. How awful!!!!"

THIS what what went on for a good three, four years. SS somehow learned to associate BM screaming at DH with her love for him. :(

It took them going to court (to take BM's power, the threats of never letting DH have SS again away) and some counseling for SS before the situation improved.

It is drastically better but it still happens from time to time where SS will try to get a reaction from BM.

Somehow, though, I suspect your situation is different because the things you've said in regards to possible drug activity at BM's house sound legit. I think your SS is legitimately frightened, whereas the stuff my SS would complain about to BM was piddly, typical kid stuff.

Is it possible your SS feels guilty ? Is he worried that BM will be even angrier with him if he doesn't go?

" Ever since he was little, and I mean two or three years old, he would say something to BM about something at our house and DH would fly into a tizzy."

opps. I meant BM would fly into a tizzy.

"Is he worried that BM will be even angrier with him if he doesn't go? " Yes, he'd said before Christmas that he was very concerned that she'd scream at him for not being there. We asked him if he was so worried about it that he felt it better that he just suck it up and go there at Christmas but he said no.

I think part of it may be, too, that he keeps hoping that things will change. And SS definitely has problems differentiating between bad and good attention sometimes; if he starts getting really clingy he doesn't care what attention he is getting so long as he is getting some. Urgh.

Who knows? Maybe in his mind he figures that sooner or later he's going to have to go anyway so he might as well go now and see if he gets any presents. It's just very disconcerting and DH and I were quite taken aback by the about-face.

"It's just very disconcerting and DH and I were quite taken aback by the about-face."

I can totally empathize with that.

Hmmm. Maybe you should discuss this with SS's counselor? I don't know how much info. is appropriate to give to SS.

On one hand, I can see saying,"You know SS, Daddy and SM went to a lot of trouble to keep you safe and now we are concerned that perhaps you were not truthful with us about how scared you really were. We want to trust and believe what you say and that's hard to do when you suddenly say you are not scared of Mom at all anymore."

On the OTHER hand....well, I just don't know.

I would see what the counselor thinks about this whole situation.

Not to be a grinch but just to throw in an objective view... Is it at all possible SS actually for a moment misses BM? My DD says these things too that she doesn't want to go to BDs because she wants to be with me or usually when visitation time comes, she is in the middle of something and says I hate going with daddy, they do this they do that? But she goes and comes back happy ... Most of the time... Not always...

Even when mom's and dad's are awful, they are still mom's and dad's and we love them. DD often says to the therapist she doesn't want to go but the next day, says she misses BD and wants to go... I get so upset ... But she is only 9 and who knows what her reasons are... They are so confused in these situations as it is.

I think the same as myfampg, BM is awful but kids still love their awful parents, maybe he just wants to see his mother...Or heck maybe he wants gifts too..He is just a child and she is his mom as awful as she is...

Sounds like everything I've ever read about Stockholm Syndrome. The abused person feels the need to please the abuser. Then add in that the abused person is the abuser's son and that makes the need to please even greater. He needs to stay away from that. The farther removed he gets the more he will be able to see the abusive situation for what it really is.

The thing kids want more than anything is for their parents to love them. If he sensed she didn't want him there, it might provoke a response of feeling like he needs to go because mommy might start not wanting me around. I think he has fears that she will stop loving him & wanting him around. He already knows she doesn't treat him very well when he is there.

I'd hesitate to jump to the conclusion that he is greedy.

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. DH is going to talk to SS on the way home today, and we'll talk to the counselor this week. We just don't know what to think. I was wondering if maybe he's been playing up his fears of going there because he thinks BM doesn't want him there anyway, sort of like people who break up with a boyfriend they still love before they're broken up with?

I was thinking of his wanting presents because of comments he'd made - that may or may not be the case; since he is so young he cannot articulate his feelings all that well (and may not want to anyway) so I just don't know.

Oh well, we'll know more later.

Well, DH picked up SS last night and had a long talk with him on the way home. Apparently it was all about wanting presents. BM dragged SS around to various relatives who, caught off guard, coughed up some cash in lieu of gifts (this is typical after his birthdays and such).

BM asked SS if it was his choice or DH's that he not come up for Christmas, and SS said that it was his, that he'd always spent Christmas at home and he didn't want to not do so this year. After she told him that he had spent Christmas with her before (he has not, how can anyone not remember if they've ever spent Christmas with their own child or not?!) she asked him why he'd come up for New Year's then? At which time SS informed her that he wanted to see if anyone got him anything!!!!

DH made SS call BM to apologize for that comment. DH said that as much as it pained him to do so, due to some of the horrific things BM has said/done to SS over the years, SS was clearly wrong on this one (his honesty not withstanding).

DH also explained to SS that it was OK to want to see his mother, or if he's truly afraid of his mother then that situation is what it is - but it is absolutely NOT OK to say that he's afraid to go - unless he might get a present.

We can understand and sympathize with the mixed feelings about BM. SS is constantly hoping that things will change and she'll "get better". That had been and I'm sure will be a problem; he'd get his hopes up and usually they were dashed. But this whole thing was not good at all.

After DH and I beating ourselves up for a while wondering what we've done wrong, it finally dawned on us that SS has always been very generous and giving before and it's only been recently that we've seen any signs of, well, where he's behaving exactly like BM and SS18. We've no doubt at all he's been exposed to comments about what they can get out of people as it's brought up in almost any conversation with either of them. (As an aside, we found out BM is on welfare and is quite probably committing welfare fraud. Explains the whole "free lunch" thing....)

Anyway. This new and un-charming mentality is going to be cut off hard. Our volunteering is going to change to become more focused; I'm looking at volunteering opportunities involving children with health/physical/mental/emotional needs. As DH and I said last night, nothing puts things into perspective like helping a child who doesn't care what, if anything, they get for Christmas but are just hoping to not spend Christmas in the hospital again, or to be able to build a snowman one last time.

As for the whole modification in process, DH is pushing onwards at this time. His reasoning is that they might as well get all of this one-time mandatory stuff out of the way now; at any point in the process if any agreement is reached they can stop it. DH will be speaking to SS's counselor to see if her opinion is changed at all by this latest.

Unfortunately it is now obvious that SS does not have the emotional maturity (understandable, he's only a kid) to necessarily have any significant input at this time. Even though we can win a bidding war for SS's attention, LOL, that is absolutely not not NOT going to be allowed to begin; not fair to us, not fair to crazy BM, not fair to SS - and then I'll end up with an adult SS like some of you have with an insane sense of entitlement ("Mattie, do you really need to spend that much money on your parents' funeral? Can't you just throw the body into a dumpster somewhere? Because, ya know, that much money would buy me a nice vacation and I'm feeling really stressed right now from all the pressure of keeping my 1.2 QPA in my fourteenth year as an undergrad....") LOL!