Girlfriend, you have my sympathy. I'll go ahead and warn you, you'll get flamed by some on here for dating someone who's not already divorced. They'll tell you you've asked for it. Just look out.

On your topic, though. You HAVE entered into a horribly difficult situation. My husband had been separated from his wife for almost a year when we met, but it took her another three years to sign the final property settlement agreement. It was stressful and senseless, all of it. But, like you, I knew he loved me and I loved him. We toughed it out, and now we've been married for four years.

I do have to deal with his ex because he has five children with her, three of whom live with us. It was really, really hard at first because she always found ways to belittle me to the children. She was always trying to make them not like me, not want to spend time with their dad, and after we got married it got a little worse.

You eventually just learn how to ignore it for the most part. Sounds like she's still got a thing for your boyfriend, though, and that could be problematic.

The one thing I'd say is that you need to figure out how much you're willing to take. No need issuing ultimatums at this point, but for your own peace of mind, set a limit for yourself and don't go past it.

doublemint,

I understand that you are in a tough spot. Don't be surprised if you get backlash for your bf not being divorced. I got it b/c the ink didn't dry. But pay no mind and just get the advice that's actually helpful.

I do have some questions. I went through some similar problems. I think the main question and one that will determine how you can move forward is how does your BF respond to her acting out? What specifically are you struggling with? YEs, she's a pain but what specifically is troubling you?

If he's doing everything he can and should, i.e. not enabling her, not accommodating ridiculous demands, etc. then you might just have to ignore her until she finally wears down (if ever). If he's not, then you do need to have a conversation with him.

Yes I am one who disapproves of dating someone who is still married. But on top of any moral issues, the practical issues, as you have found out are staggering. In some cases, the dating may infuriate a sooon to be X and result in additional demands. Introducing children to STBx GF may also result in anger.

In any event, just remember, BFs X will be a part of your life as long as their are children. If you really think she is nutz, keep this in mind.

As to making BF a major part of your children's lives before he is divorced, I really have to question that.

the biggest problem I have is that most 2 year olds (and most kids under 12) need and WANT both parents. When someone says that a 2 year old doesn't want to go to one parent's house, in my mind, it's because the other parent is acting in a way that encourages that, even if it doesn't seem like it. If it were a 10 or 12 year old, I would think maybe the parent they don't want to visit has behaved in a way that the kid resents. but not a 2 year old. It's not unusual for kids that age to cry during exchanges and maybe the neither parent encourages it, but it is damaging for a small child that age to be in a position to feel like he's being tugged from both ends.

If that's a problem (during the exchange) it might be better to have the exchanges done at a neutral place with a third party, not related to the child. (ie. dad drops off at a daycare or babysitter and mom picks up.) There is always going to be an adjustment time and it really helps when it's not an emotionally charged situation.

If I were giving you advice, I would say don't marry this guy. If hearing her name makes you ill already and you know you don't want to spend your life with someone with an ex wife like that, you are not going to change her. When I married my husband, I didn't fully realize how bad she would get but I knew she wasn't a peach. I chose to marry him so I deal with it. But if your goal is to force her to change or erase her from your lives, it won't work. You are going to have to deal with her for the rest of your lives if you get married and stay married. It doesn't end when the kids are 18. There is eventually a time when the legal aspect ends but he will always be his child and she will always be the child's mom.

You also have to consider the affect on your own children to be in a hostile situation. If they are going to have a stressed out mom because being in this situation is more important to you, then that's not what's in their best interest. If your BF can establish boundaries for his ex interfering in your life and keep her from stressing you out and you can create a stable, peaceful home environment for your children, then that would be best. But from what you write, I see court battles, lots of hostility and that's not good for any of the children here.

But, that's just my opinion.

you are marrying him not his exwife, so who really cares if she is hostile. stay away from her. there are a lot of crazy exes out there. Don't let them bother you.

my BF's exwife accused me of stealing her daughter's credit card. haha BF's daughter came home from college for the weekend (and as always stayed at dad's not mom's) and her credit card was stolen and couple of hundreds were charged on it. The card was on his ex's name. So she called BF saying that since it happened during D's stay at dad's, then it is me who stole the card. lol lol She yelled on the phone like crazy as always. BF was so embarassed and said: "Now you see why i have so much baggage, see who I was married to for 28 years". His daughter was embarassed that her mother is so crazy. What i am trying to say there are a lot of crazies out there, so should we stop seeing people?

"I went with him to his son's surgery and she was completely nasty to me, threw a stuffed animal at me, and told my bf it was disrespectful to her for him to bring me to the hospital."

It IS disrespectful, even if they were actually divorced.

Yet they are still married. It is not only wrong, but insane to date someone who is still married, or even recently divorced.

And if you can't at least tolerate his wife, you should not marry him.

it is not disrespectful to be at the hospital to support your BF/husband. My husband held my hand while my son was in surgery. He reassured me and was there to comfort me. If his father had been there, he could/should bring his wife because we surely weren't going to hold each other's hands or console each other if one got emotional. The parent's are there for the child, not each other.

They don't have to sit in the same room as the ex. The hospital is a big place, usually with more than one waiting room. The ex should also bring someone for moral support.

It would be disrespectful if, while at the hospital, they were making out or getting physical. That would be inappropriate, not because of the ex being there, but because they are supposed to be there for the sick child.

I agree with Ima. It's not disrespectful to bring someone to support you and to comfort you. That's his son and the person who means most to him in the world.

Peronsally I think that the ex should get over it. He left, moved out, found someone else, and she did too. She's even pregnant by someone else so she has absolutely no right to throw stones.

Doublemint, if it were me I'd say something because you know it's driving you crazy now. It'll drive you crazier later.

I had to tell my DH that his ex is his ex for a reason and she should not be contacting him for any other reason than to converse about his child and if she did, I'm sorry he didn't see a problem with it, but I did and I refused to play 2nd to an ex.

As simple as that.

"I had to tell my DH that his ex is his ex for a reason and she should not be contacting him for any other reason than to converse about his child and if she did, I'm sorry he didn't see a problem with it, but I did .."

What do you do when they want to be friends?

lol

I missed that -- yes going to hospital with "BF" when he is still legally married is disrespectful.

and her showing up pregnant with another man's child is equally disrespectful...NO? (while still married)

I'm on board for that bringing your SO to the hospital while your child has surgery is perfectly OK. You need support, and the child may want to see their SP, as well as their BPs of course, when they wake up. What about birthdays or weddings? Is bringing your SO to a happy occasion disrespectful? Or is it just not OK when it's hard times?

I agree with some of the other posters that keeping positive about your SS going to see his BM is important. At his age, he's very sensitive to other people's emotions and you guys need to try to keep it positive for him. I know it's hard though!!

Ask him to ask her to limit her phone calls and text messages to things pertaining solely to their child or their legal proceedings. Explain that lots of phone calls from her makes you feel that she's interrupting your life together and this diminishes the importance of your relationship. Use I statements ("I feel less important to you because of the frequency of her phone calls") because they're "fair fighting" and also because he can't disagree with them. He can say "I don't think you need to feel that way and here's why ___" but he can't say "No, you don't feel that way"

After my BF's ex behaved badly towards me, he acknowledged that I was the bigger person in the matter and that if there was ever some dispute, I can always count on him to be on my side. The BM I deal with is a peach compared to yours, and they were never married, so that reassurance is really all I needed. Would reassurance help things for you?

She might mellow out once the papers are final and she has some closure (a friend's exH was a pain until the papers were signed and then he suddenly was easygoing and stopped giving her trouble)... Any chance of that? Can you wait that long?

I think there are some important question for you to ask yourself: Am I comfortable with how my guy deals with his ex? Can I rest assured that he will try to diffuse her effect on our life? Am I confident enough in our relationship to not be threatened by her continued presence in it? Be REALLY honest with yourself.
Talk to your BF about what you think because good communication is what's going to make or break this for you.

Legally, yes they were still married. But how many people have you heard of who never get the divorce completed and go on about having separate lives. A piece of paper is not going to be the defining moment of any realization that their relationship is over. They made their choice to not be together, end of story.
No body knows doublemint's story and what the situation is, hence you are not in the position to judge her about any of it. She asked a specific question and deserves a centered answer, not this tangential stuff about how disrespectful it is or isnt to be with her partner during a tough time.

It wasn't disrespectful to anyone to be there, so please, get over yourselves and try to focus on the main issue. If you are actually here to give useful advice, then find something useful to say.

Unfortunately, there are many more cases than we'd like to think of where a divorce if filed, they live separate and it never gets finished or delayed for whatever reason. I have a client that was served divorce papers. He hired me to serve his response. That was over three years ago. In the past three years, his would be ex wife has developed an alcohol problem, been evicted from two places because she can't hold a job. He was paying her rent while she had the kids but he got the kids after her DUI. Then after her second eviction, she was sleeping in her car and he felt bad that the mother of his kids was homeless. He let her move into his house (that he bought after they lost the marital home, which she stayed in after SHE filed for divorce). He told her that she could stay there if she abstained from alcohol, found a job and got her life together so she could get her own place and resume shared parenting. I just had to once again serve her with a motion to force her to move out of his house because she didn't get a job, she didn't stop drinking, and she's creating chaos for her kids, that have asked her to get help. The delay in finalizing it had to do with the marital settlement since at the time she filed, they had a joint bank account, which she cleaned out (nearly $20,000) and the house, a business.... he's finally going to be able to proceed without a settlement agreement because she has pi$$ed away all their marital assets.

Legally, they are still married and they were living under the same roof but I would hardly consider them married. I'm sure KKNY or TOS would disagree, of course.

"we surely weren't going to hold each other's hands or console each other if one got emotional."

And why the H&&& NOT???? I would certainly console my exH if he got emotional, and I would hope he would do the same. What the H%%% are you afraid of - that the husband and wife would have sex right there in the waiting room while their child was in surgery??? Are SM's so insecure that they don't dare leave their boyfriends in the same public room as their wives or ex-wives???

When our toddler was in the hospital, one or both of us was in the room 24/7. I realize that you probably can't be in the OR, but both parents should be with the child while he or she is getting ready to go in the OR, in recovery, and in his or her room afterwards. Having one parent's SO, and especially if it is an affair partner, in the room too IS terribly disrespectful, hurtful, and cruel. If a person had an ounce of human decency, he or she would step back and leave the parents to parent the child at such a stressful time.

imamommy,

And yet on another thread, a mere 9 days ago, you said,

"It was foolish for you to get involved with a married man. It makes no difference if he says they were only pretending to be married for her family They may not have been "happily" married, but marriage is a commitment and if he wanted to date or meet other people, they should have at the very least, ended the legal marriage relationship."

Is marriage a commitment or not? If it makes no difference if he says they were only pretending to be married for her family, shouldn't it make no difference if he says he let her move in because he was feeling sorry for her? And you hypothesized in the first case that they were probably still intimate (I agree) - and I am sure they were in the alcoholic/homeless mom case you just described as well.

"And why the H&&& NOT???? I would certainly console my exH if he got emotional, and I would hope he would do the same."

umm, ok. you may feel that way because you are still in love with him, but if I'm upset, I would rather have my husband comfort me than my ex. (and if I didn't have a husband, I would take my sister or best friend) It's not about insecurity. And I never said anything about taking your SO or new spouse into the room with the child. I would agree that is where both parents should be, with each one holding their child's hand. But a step parent/SO in the waiting room isn't going to upset the child, only the ex. GET OVER IT.

Marriage is a commitment.
In the first case, they had not filed for divorce. They had not lived apart. There was no circumstance that indicated they were really apart, other than his statement that they were living as room mates.

In the second case, I personally served her the divorce response. They had a parenting plan. I served her at least two times before she became homeless. At the time I served her the last documents, she was refusing to leave his house and he was staying somewhere else. She either felt entitled or he was being too nice and she was taking advantage. I cannot say if they ever were intimate, but from the court papers, she was going out and sleeping all day. He was caring for the kids and when her behavior became too disruptive for the kids, he took them elsewhere to get her out of his home. I served her at about 2 in the afternoon and she was passed out still. She finally woke up when I called her on the phone twice and told her I was outside, after knocking for almost 45 minutes. (her bedroom was next to the front door & I could see her)

Not the same in my book. Probably is in yours but then, it always is.

"What the H%%% are you afraid of - that the husband and wife would have sex right there in the waiting room while their child was in surgery???"

and don't you mean ex husband and ex wife????

No, I mean husband and wife. According to the original poster, they parents of the boy who had surgery were still married to each other.

Actually, it appeared that they had been living apart, although it is not clear at what point someone filed for divorce:

"Later they separated but she requested that he not tell her family. That he accommodate her and pretend for them because she wasn't ready to tell them. His family and close friends however, knew. A year after that we met. We got pretty serious and they had both agreed that if they had met someone they would inform the other. All the while she had stated she didn't want him, etc. etc. But as soon as she heard he was serious about someone she said she wanted to make it work. Mind you divorce is pending."

Thank you so much to those who have offered me sincere advice on my situation. To clear things up...I stayed in the waiting room the entire surgery and did not go in for the preop or postop part of that at all. In fact my bf's brother came and sat with me in the waiting room because he knew I would be out there alone a majority of the time. And yes, his ex (or soon to be) was at the hospital very pregnant with another man's child so I think she had no place in saying my presence there was disrespectful. My situation is what is what it is and I knew full well when I posted that I was going to open myself up to criticism, but I can weed through that and find the posts from people that are actually giving me honest advice and support.

Just in case it is not clear, the post above beginning with, "Actually it appeared that they" refers to an earlier thread started by keepitmovin.

My post before that refers to the parents of the boy who had surgery, mentioned in the current thread.

Not everyone hates his or her ex-spouse. I have a friend who took his son to college and back every year with his ex-wife. The ex-wife's new husband did not tag along. When her ex-husband was hospitalized, she became involved in arranging for his care, and contacting his relatives. They talked frequently about their son and about other topics. She sometimes asked him for advice. I suspect the critical factor was that HE didn't have a SO to get jealous of the fact that his ex-wife and he still had a cordial relationship.

doublemintmommy, I didn't read your original post to be about the hospital event. But that seems to be the part chosen to pick apart (as well as his marital status) but I took it to be that you are very frustrated with the situation as a whole.

I posted my opinion near the top. I wasn't trying to be too critical but it's my honest opinion. It concerns me that a 2 year old saying they don't want to see mommy, would be taken seriously. I hope your BF doesn't intend to take full custody at this point. I believe small children are usually better off with 50/50 shared custody(unless a parent is completely unfit or doesn't want that much time), at least until they begin school. Their attention span is very short and an afternoon away from one parent can seem much longer to them. If they live close, every other day would be best but perhaps the hardest for the parents. By age 3-4, maybe every three or five days. My husband did week on/week off and that was fine, when his daughter was five.

When my kids were small, I took child development classes but I wish I had taken the parenting class I took a few months ago. I recommend it a lot to all parents. It doesn't give you black and white answers. Every situation is different shades of grey and it gives different methods so you can see what works for you.

I listed some links in the thread Step family resources a couple of days ago.

And also to clear up another thing...I was there only because my SO wanted me there and asked me to be there with him...not out of jealously or anything else. In fact..his son was more comforted by my presence there than his own mother's. The feelings I have are not jealousy..they are frustration.

My SO actually does intend to take custody...but not because of the reason that his child does not want to be with his biological mother..we have recently found out some things that point towards child neglectsuch as her leaving him with people that are not in his best interest (a felon)while she is out doing whatever, as well as him wandering around her apartment complex alone while she is taking a nap and so on.

Hi Doublemint,

Putting aside the pissing match above, I can tell you that I understand your feelings very well. My DH's ex tried these things post divorce once she learned he was dating. I am married to the custodial father with an ex that defies the odds. For years she has put knots in my stomach on a daily basis. Just thinking about the things she says or does to my SD, the way she treats my SD would effect my entire day. I would find myself taking out on my DH and kids the anger I felt toward her. I would spend hours thinking of ways to communicate to her how she was hurting her child, and her relationship with that child. I would exhaust myself trying to make us all get along and put my SD before our own agendas. My DH would constantly tell me to give up, that he had been with her for years and knew that she would not change if it didn't suit her needs. I still thought I could "fix" her and her relationship with my SD - make it into the relationship I have with her daughter who calls me her "real mom."

After 10 years, I have given up. He is right - she will not change as she will never admit she is anything less than mother of the year, regardless of what her daughter says to her. There have been many times I have thought of leaving, and countless more times I have wished I would have not gotten involved, but I adore my SD and she adores me. Losing her is not worth losing her mom ... but I'm 10 years into our relationship. If I were at your point, knowing what I know now . . . I don't know that I wouldn't run the other way. Currently I am learning to let it slide - to realize that she doesn't deserve my help and she can just sink her own ship. I am still angry, but it's becoming easier to deal with . . . slowly.

Truly, no one can give you a magic answer. You really have to decide what is best for your kids and yourself. It is not an easy as "just ignore it" when you can't ignore something that gets to you on that deep a level. You just have to determine if you have it in you to tough out the adjustment time - which can be years - until you reach the point you can let go. More importantly, you have to determine if your kids will suffer while you tough it out. If the answer is yes . . . no man is more important than your kids.

My heart goes out to you - I wish you strength.

Friends? That ALMOST never works. I believe that you can have a good relationship with your ex, but you are never going to feel comfortable calling them for a beer or a night out on the town. They are never going to really be your friend because that ship sailed with the divorce. I have heard of some cases where the exs got along better after the divorce and were friendly, but never actual good friends.

I've always been a very blunt person, with DH he knows how I feel about certain things and that's how it should be. When his ex started her BS I had to plainly tell him that it bothered me and I wouldn't stand for it. If she wanted to talk about his daughter that was fine and great, but when he asked me to marry him, and when I married him that automatically put me at best friend status. If he really needs to talk to someone it should be me, his mother, or one of his friends. His ex gave up that right to be part of that circle.

And that's how I feel on the subject. You can be friendly for your kids without actually being friends.

My EH, his new wife, DH, and myself all go out to dinner some nights with DS. We all sit there and talk and catch up on DS's life in both places. DS enjoys it, and he is comfortable with all of us, but EH and I are NOT friends.

In fact I filed charges on him the day I left him for beating me severely and putting me in the hospital. I later filed a restraining order against him for thinking he had a right to cop a feel every time he saw me. We're not friends, but we can be friendly for our son.