At age 16, it's hard to help someone that doesn't want help. Has anyone sat her down and talked to her about what she wants her life to be like. My feeling is that you are not lost, she is. If she isn't in counseling, she needs to be. She needs to have someone she can talk to... about how it makes her feel when she engages in sex (with multiple partners)... used or like an object? She needs to be told, in a calm concerned way, not a preaching manner.. what life could be like if she continues down this path. Besides pregnancy, what about AIDS? What about her self respect? The eating disorders and drug use is a reflection of how she feels about herself. She needs supportive allies. She may need to talk about how she feels about her friend dying in the car accident. She may think that life is just so crappy and she has given up on herself. Teen girls can feel that way because it's hard for them to see very far into the future.

A lot of this should have begun years ago when she was small. I grasp a lot of hostility from you towards her father and that will be an automatic reason for her to not like you. No matter what a scumbag he may be, he's her dad and kids see themselves as part of both parents. The worse thing you can do if you want to help the situation and help her, is to bad mouth her parent. That's the hard part of being a step parent.

But it kinda sounds to me like she is at least a little willing to accept help. She's confessed to the doctor and got help for her eating disorder (unless she was physically forced). My daughter is 17 and went through a phase of cutting. It's a cry for help and if you answer that cry by listening and not judging, you will get better results. If that's too hard to do, get her a counselor, teacher, or someone she can open up to for advice and help. She sounds like she really wants it.

I think everything I was going to say imamommy covered. At 16 some kids are hard pressed to think a week ahead of the moment . . .she needs to somehow see how her choices now could seriously impact her later. It seems she is looking to fill a void of some sort with anything she can find - booze, drugs, men, maybe even a baby? Once things go bad they get worse, and now her friend is dead. She is likely grieving, confused and acting out for attention of some sort - almost asking for someone to see how miserable she is and help her.
Full blown counseling is a must, and perhaps that Dr. could even recommend a treatment center/home that would not break the bank. Hearing it from you and your wife isn't going to cut it - you need someone she will listen to. I think before she will open up she needs to know you are wanting to help not punish . . . . she seems to be punishing herself enough as it is.

I feel for you and your wife. Stay together and stay strong. No one will be helped by you throwing up your hands and leaving, no matter how tempting it sounds.

First,have your wife or you talked to any of her doctors?
She clearly has depression or mental illness of some sort that is not being properly addressed.Has she been put on any prescription medications for this? If she has,then they arent working and the doctors need to try something else.If she hasnt,then it is important to look into it.

Chemical,and hormonal imbalances are not uncommon in the teen years! Normally a teen is only a bit more sensitive and maybe a bit rebellious.Some cases such as your step daughters (and MYSELF as a teen!) the problem is medical and needs immeadiate attention.
Sex,at 16, is NOT completely unheard of either.In fact it is the national average for when teens decide to have sex.
Telling her "just not to do it" is not effective.She needs to be told to use protection and it might not be a bad idea to get her on the pill,unless you want to be early grand parents.You can be "God Fearing" all you want,just dont be nieve.If a teen wants to have sex,they will find a way with or without your consent.

The drugs I would not tolerate.If she has them in the house,then call the police.Once she is put in a juvinille detention facility she will not likely want to go back for anything.
You CANNOT,however,expect your wife to chose you over her daughter.Her daughter is hurting right now and needs help.IT IS ALSO ILLEGAL to kick her out.
Unless there is a place she can go to stay with a grand parent or a cool aunt or something,where else would she go?
This girl is crying out for help...with very self destructive behavior.And there must be a reason for it.Not well liked at school? Doesnt like her home life? Your wife needs to get to the bottom of WHY she is acting out.I hope she is being actively involved with her doctors and has her in counseling.
Whether this girl knows it not,she needs her mother.So if you cant deal with it,then you should go.Because it would be wrong on so many levels to expect your wife to chose you over her.
The good news,is once any chemical imbalance is fixed and she can figure out why she is doing these things,and address these issues,she will change for the better.Then you all can start the healing process...

pretty much what plasticgardens said.

"She leaves this house, or I do."

No wonder her son had "drug related issues" & moved out.
No wonder her daughter has terrible problems.

Even if you haven't said it aloud, this girl's mother undoubtedly recognizes your feelings;
you undoubtedly express them in body language & attitude.

You've expressed them here, albeit with a few red herrings along the way to announce what a good person you are.

& the "solutions" you mention all involve getting rid of the children:

The son has moved out, so he's no longer a problem, he's history as far as you're concerned.

Potential "remedies" you've considered for the daughter's problems are...boot camp & boarding school.

The desperate, self-destructive things that this girl has done are alarming, not because they're obnoxious, but because they are alarmingly, screamingly, indicative of abuse.

at her father's home or, more likely, chronic emotional & mental abuse at her mother's home.

When she became anorexic/bulimic after the visit with her father (assuming that it really was a sudden-onset thing, not an accumulation of stress from living with you & knowing that you wished her gone), *why* did no one find out what had happened on that visit?

Your wife was probably too intimidated & too fearful of rocking the boat with you, & you refuse to stoop to dealing with any of what you see as *her* problems.

You married a woman with children, & you didn't do her a favor when you did;
when you marry someone, you acknowledge that person as an equal & a partner.
When you marry someone with children, *it's a package deal*:

If you thought her children were "hell on wheels", you should have stayed out of it.

Be helpful.

Focus on someone other than yourself.

WOW, I think you are being a lot hard on him. He was concerned enough to come here for advice. Raising teenagers IS very frustrating. My bio kids are 17, 18 & 20.

He said he has NO CHILDREN of his own. So, IMHO I wouldn't jump down his throat for not knowing how to deal with it properly. These kids have "fathers" and just because he married their mom, it's not his responsibility to raise her kids. (it's nice when a step parent does help, especially when the bio parent isn't doing their job. But it's not his responsibility~ it's the job of the parents) My husband is the same way, his daughter is 8 so he has no idea what raising teens is about. I pretty much had to figure it out as I went with the first one (and each one is different).

The fact that he's seeking advice is a plus. Where is mom? She should be asking for advice so I think Step dad is doing what he can. Even if it's just to save his own marriage.

I know I already posted but this just bothers me.

"she revisited the psych hospital for eating disorders. We mainly sent her there because we had no where else to send her"

How about not "sending" her anywhere?
The best place for a troubled child is generally in her mother's home unless there's a predatory or abusive person living there.

She isn't a camera that needs a new lens;
you can't just send her off for repairs.

"I thought for sure we knew where she was the whole week!!! How???? When??? I don't understand... I'm not a stupid person and I'm usually more suspicious than her mother"

I'll bet you are.

Teen-agers aren't dogs in heat.
What a terrible atmosphere to live in, knowing that you're being watched like a dog on a chain.

"I'm convinced that she's beyond our help. Her mother throws up her hands and says "I don't know what to do!" and I shrug"

Of course you're convinced that she'd beyond your help;
that would relieve her mother of responsibility & give you an excuse to get this girl out of your life.

& of course her mother doesn't know what to do;
not only does she not have any support for doing what needs to be done, but if she suggested anything that might actually work...
what kind of reception would you give her ideas?
another shrug?
or more definite disapproval & exasperation?

The *whole family* needs intensive, non-ego-involved counselling to clean up the toxic home environment & relieve this girl from expressing all its misery.

I have to also disagree with your statement

"Teen-agers aren't dogs in heat.
What a terrible atmosphere to live in, knowing that you're being watched like a dog on a chain."

I'm sure most are not but SOME ARE. Hormones raging and yes, some girls will sneak out a window or lie, saying whatever they have to, in order to get laid. Jr. High kids are giving each other oral like it were a handshake, so you may think "your" child would NEVER do that but then there's reality. Kids don't think about consequences and NEED guidance. And when a parent (step) asks for it, shouldn't this forum be about finding solutions instead of beating up someone for past mistakes (I'm sure he knows that what been done in the past hasn't worked so he's seeking advice, not to be judged).

I dont even trust myself to respond to this persons post. He obviously, to me, dislikes both of his stepchildren intensly, and rather than wanting to help , he just wants the problem solved, without any real effort on his part ( or at least that is how I read it)

OF course, I am a little bit biased here. My stepdaughter's mom has remarried to a man who has , in his own opinion , two PERFECT girls....good grades, delicate, feminine, obedient. He is constantly negatively comparing my 12 year old sd to his own children, and every letter or phone call we get from him is denigrating the girl, and accusing her of making his life difficult. For example...she had a cavity at her checkup last week, and his response was that she DELIBERATELY has poor oral hygeine in an attempt to cost him money.

Stepdaughter is tall for her age, heavy for her age, not a particularly good student. BUT she has a wickedly funny sense of humor, and she has many really good qualities, but he just doesnt see it. ALl he sees is what is WRONG ( in his opinion) with her. SHe constantly gets compared to his children and admonished to be more like them. Her mom calls my husband at times, crying, because her husband takes out his resentment and anger against sd on her. In stepdads opinion, mom needs to do something to "correct" the flaws he finds in sd.

The latest is that SD hsa been lying to mom and stepdad about homework and grades. His response when she brings home a bad grade is to ground her indefinitely, and take away all privileges until she brings home a good grade. SD now avoids bringing home work to her moms house, although she willingly brings it to our house. This infuriates stepdad and is causing major problems in their marriage. He says that SD is deliberately doing this to make his life unpleasant. Its all about him, all the time.

I feel sorry for my stepkids mom. She is caught between wanting to love and protect her kids, and having to side with her husband against the girl. The boy can do no wrong in the eyes of his stepdad , probably because he is the only boy. He also is younger , without any of the preteen angst. I shudder to think of what will happen as my SD gets older, unless something changes.

"I have to also disagree with your statement
"Teen-agers aren't dogs in heat.

I'm sure most are not but SOME ARE."

No, they're not.

1. Sneaking out to meet a boy doesn't mean you're a bad person.

2. Many sexually active girls aren't at the mercy of "raging hormones at all:
Sex is the only way they ever get anything that seems like love, affection, or approval, since they live in emotionally impoverished or cold homes.

Someone who won't accept the fact that "raging hormones" are a part of life (we wouldn't be here without 'em!), *rather than making a negative moral judgment about someone's character*, shouldn't be in a parental or mentoring position in any adolescent's life .
..............
..............
Kathline, I always feel sorry for kids whose parents brag about them being obedient.

...& this stepfather sounds like something that's been discussed here before-a narcissist.

Narcissists are by nature incapable of having normal healthy relationships, because it *is* all about them.

Your husband might talk to the girl's mother about it, she may be at her wits' end, not knowing what's wrong & thinking that there's a way to fix it.

There's not.

If she has knowledge, maybe she can make some changes in her own life that will help her daughter.

Meanwhile, you & hubs & his daughter need to start keeping notebooks in which you each record every incident, so that you have it "in triplicate" (not just one person's word) ready to present to a judge should the opportunity or need arise.

In addition to being irrationally convinced that this girl is deliberately trying to complicate his life or cost him money (getting a cavity?), he's making her the scapegoat for everything that misses perfection in his life.

Ridicule, scapegoating, "indefinite grounding" & the like are not just inconsiderate;
they're abusive.

With all due respect,Imamommy,who by the way also joined the same day as OP...
Op stated over and over that it's his step daughter or himself.No one jumped down his throat.Only pointed out that kicking her out or giving her mother the ultimatium that it's her daughter or him is not the answer.If in fact you are even a real person and not just the Op with your own agenda?

You love her so much you can't leave????

Sounds you need her as much as her daughter and her need each other. I couldn't live like that, I would give her an ultimatum to see if she truly loved me. I was in a second marriage for 33 years. My husband always put me first, but I tried not to put him in the position of being in the middle between his kids and me. I choose my battles very carefully. He yelled at me once for interrupting a ball game by asking him something. I told him if he did that again, the marriage was over. It never happened again. I think sometimes you have to demand respect and issuing an ultimatum is part of the demand for respect.

You cant give someone an ultimatium to chose their kid over you though! That is HER CHILD! Unlike this man,the child truely needs her mother.Especially in this time of need.She is going through something very serious right now.

If someone told me it was my child or them,I'd tell them to take a flying leap!

I don't think they're the same person, plasticgardens;
imamommy has posted on a couple of other threads & has a different style & bio (on the threads, not on her member page).

"I would give her an ultimatum to see if she truly loved me."
"I think sometimes you have to demand respect and issuing
an ultimatum is part of the demand for respect."

"Testing" another person's love can backfire, & then where are you?

& ultimatums are not good ways of getting the result you want;
diplomats will resort to almost anything to avoid issuing an ultimatum, because it always puts both parties into positions from which they cannot retreat.

In fact, if someone issued me *any* ultimatum that ended "or I'm leaving", my impulse would be to open the door & wave bye-bye.

Respect isn't about getting on a high horse & making demands, especially demands that involve sacrificing something you love, be it a breadbox or a cat...much less your own child.

When someone starts trying to isolate another person from what that person loves, to take away what she cares for, I always am reminded of the steps an abuser takes to gain control of his victim.

One of the first steps is isolation.

From the original post:

"What or where can I turn? I am so lost its not funny. I've even thought about saying things like "She leaves this house, or I do." I don't think it would do any good though, besides, I love my wife too much to abandon her."

He doesn't say he's given an ultimatum, he says he's "thought" about it. All that I am saying is that he's a man that has no children of his own and here he is with troubled teenagers. Those teens have a mom & dad, he's not the one responsible for them. and as someone that is NOT a parent, all I was saying is to cut a little slack. It's really the responsibility of the mom & dad to "parent" this girl and I have raised three teenagers to adult and it's hard enough when you are the parent. I raised someone elses three children for seven years and I am currently raising my husband's 8 year old daughter, I worked in social services for ten years, I've taken many courses and trainings on child development, sociology, psychology, drug & alcohol abuse and several parenting courses. For him, I'd suggest a parenting class but my point is that he is a non parent and the fact he has posted here looking for advice and some of the things he's posted have been taken out of context. I don't see many people offering helpful advice and I thought that was what this forum is for.

as for:

" "I have to also disagree with your statement
"Teen-agers aren't dogs in heat.

I'm sure most are not but SOME ARE."

No, they're not.

1. Sneaking out to meet a boy doesn't mean you're a bad person.

2. Many sexually active girls aren't at the mercy of "raging hormones at all:
Sex is the only way they ever get anything that seems like love, affection, or approval, since they live in emotionally impoverished or cold homes.

Someone who won't accept the fact that "raging hormones" are a part of life (we wouldn't be here without 'em!), *rather than making a negative moral judgment about someone's character*, shouldn't be in a parental or mentoring position in any adolescent's life . "

I stand by my comment that "some" are, or act like they are. As I said, I worked in social services where I dealt with troubled teens that, yes, went from guy to guy with no regard for the consequences because they were looking for love or affection or attention and that is why I told him that she is crying out for help. It doesn't mean that every girl that is acting out that way is a bad person, I never said that. But don't be naive in thinking that no girl in this world would act like she's in heat. I had a 17 year old girl on my caseload that was having her fifth baby. Of course those girls with that kind of problem has been abused and perhaps his stepdaughter has been abused as well. It would explain a lot of her problems and behaviors.

She has eating disorders, having sex, doing drugs and she needs more help than, at this point, her parents can help her with. I heard someone put him down for trying to get a facility to take her. She needs PROFESSIONAL help and you can't get that in your livingroom with mom & dad. The time for THAT has passed and maybe somebody dropped the ball on that but you can't change the past, only move forward.

My reply regarding ultimatums was in response to Jonesy's post.

& I'm glad neither I nor anyone I cared about ever needed social services;
I'd hate for someone I loved to be subjected to the attitude that she "acted like" an animal in heat.

& yes, I do think he's wrong to try to get a "facility" to "take her".

He make no mention of any other steps or possibilities, just getting her out of the house like her brother is now out of the house & no longer an inconvenience in OP's life.

OP knew this woman had children when he married her, *9 years ago*.

If he didn't want the complications of children, he should have removed, not the children, but *himself*, years ago.

I don't understand, he is suppose to take second place in her life because of an adult child or even a 16 year old? Who wants to live that way, what if the child said, "leave him or I will never see you again". I know it doesn't seem fair and a child is important, but it just makes him a paycheck. why does a spouse have to live that kind of life. Giving an ultimatum is better than just walking out with no explanation.

Of course he should take second place to a child, and even more so to a child who is so desperately in need of help.

I still keep thinking that this first place second place is not the way I think. The love I have for a child, the need a child has, and the responsiblity for the child I have is different than romantic feelings toward a BF. It is like saying my job comes before my child. The two things are different. Apples and oranges.

Of course, the child was not, at the time of the marriage, the terribly troubled and difficult teen she is now...

Definitely time for professional help -- and residential schools are not always a bad thing.

A dear friend of mine reached the end of her rope with her own teenage son and sent him to a residential 'boot camp' school in another state. She had tried everything she could think of and was actually fearful for her family's safety with him in the house. Was there a big part of her that just wanted to 'get rid of the problem?' Heck, Yes! He was violent, had committed several petty crimes and was taking drugs, and there were younger siblings to consider. And while part of her just needed a break, the larger part of her knew that a drastic change was necessary for her son, or that he would be lost to the entire family forever. And that residential school turned him around completely. He speant a full year there, and has now been back home for nearly a year. He is now a lovely, well-mannered young man with a clear sense of his own responsibility for his own future. He's working hard in school, participates in sports, and has friends who are good influences, not bad. That school probably saved his life.

How many step parents would not be fed up with a teen who was acting out so dramatically? Not to say there aren't reasons for it -- But something serious has to be done, and it's gone beyond 'over-the-counter' remedies...

Jonesy,your whole arguement is invalid though by the simple fact that the LAW says you are responsible for a child until they are 18.
If this step daughter was legally an adult,then maybe the situation would be a little different as then the parent cannot force the child to do anything.
At this point though,whether Op likes it or not,his wife is RESPONSIBLE for her daughter's life and care.Anything else would be considered NEGLECT.If he DID give an ultimatum at this point,and let's just say the wife went along with it,I guarentee you years later she would resent him for that.

And no,Imamommy,he doesnt say he's given an ultimatum,but he says he would like to.
"I've even thought about saying things like "She leaves this house, or I do." I don't think it would do any good though"

And I offered a lot of advice in my first post.First and foremost about getting this girl's chemical imbalance under control by the mother being actively involved with her doctors.Who is to say she isnt MENTALLY ILL? Is the right thing to do to turn their back on someone who seriously needs professional help? Until she is 18,it is their JOB to see that she gets that care.
I also even went as far to say that if the girl has drugs in their house,to call the cops.
And to make sure she is on the pill and knows to use protection.
Sounds like advice to me.

I dont disagree any step parent would be fed up. I'm not against the girl going somewhere to get help.But for her,bootcamp does not sound like the right thing to do. She sounds mentally ill.Seems like she needs to be in a long term care kind of place with 24 hour care for a while.

Given her state of mind and all she's done,insurance
should cover something like that.

My point was an ultimatum isnt really going to help anything.Either way,she still has to be dealt with.Even if it's just to be sent somewhere.

Maybe I take this issue personally because my mom chose her Bf over my sister and I. My sister was 13 and my mom kicked her out of the house.Lucky for me,I went to live with my aunt who had a very positive effect on my life.
To this day,my sister pretty much hates my mom.She needed more active parenting and got none.Only kicked out.
I just hope this doesnt happen here.

Sweeby, I agree that residential schools may be the best answer for some children. One of my DDs friends had OCC, therapy didnt help, she ended going to a residential program, and is much much better. The difference is her parents sent her there out of love, not our of frustation. I think a child will know why he is being sent.

Plastic, I agree. If there are drugs in the house, call the cops.

"If there are drugs in the house, call the cops."

Well, that'll get rid of her for sure, solving OP's problem.

but...

"my mom chose her Bf over my sister and I.
My sister was 13 and my mom kicked her out of the house.
Lucky for me,I went to live with my aunt who had a very positive effect on my life.

To this day,my sister pretty much hates my mom.
She needed more active parenting and got none.
Only kicked out.
I just hope this doesnt happen here."

I realize that drugs in the house are intolerable, but I think I'd flush them rather than kick my own daughter not only out but into jail.

I know it seems harsh sylvia,but sometimes there is no other way for them to learn.DRUGS ARE ILLEGAL. The parents could have their house taken away from them if they get caught with her having them in the house.
By the way,I'm NOT talking about something lame like pot which is only a misderminor,Op said she was doing Extascy as well and other drugs.

Drugs are the one thing I consider intolerable.I have known people whose parents have lost their houses because their kids were doing/selling drugs.They got raided and the entire community found out about it.The poor parents had no clue what was going on.
I dont think Op should call the cops the first time it happens,but if she is warned and doesnt stop...absolutely.
By her going against their wishes,she is putting them in danger too of getting in trouble.

"I realize that drugs in the house are intolerable, but I think I'd flush them rather than kick my own daughter not only out but into jail."

Sometimes TOUGH LOVE is needed. A trip to the pokey won't ruin a kid. If they are going to engage in illegal activity when they live at home, they need to see what the consequences are. My son, in 9th grade, decided he didn't want to go to school anymore. I was a single parent & worked from 7am-5pm. I'd come home for a break at 8:30 & he would be in bed asleep. I tried to get him up and he'd say no. He was almost 6 ft. tall and I'm 5'2. I called the truant officer that came and said he can't "force" him, but they could file charges against ME. I called the police who also told him that they can't put their hands on him unless he breaks the law. (His not going to school was MY crime) So, I had to be tough. I got in his face (talking didn't work) and he (being rebellious) put his hands on me. So, I called the police. I told the officer a trip to JV might be enough to set him straight. Well, he (being rebellious) resisted arrest and found out the hard way where that got him. When he went to court, I told the Judge that he's not a "bad" kid but started down that road. He wouldn't go to school so the court ordered him to attend school regularly. He had to pay a fine (and I made hIM pay) It kept him in school.

If there are drugs being brought into the house, the police can raid your house and tear it up (and they don't fix it either). I wouldn't hesitate to call the police on my child if they are breaking the law. If they know you are going to protect them from the law, why should they respect the laws?

I'm sorry that happend to you imamommy,but at least your son learned a lesson.I agree tough love is sometimes the only thing that will work.
Besides just the chance of having your house raided because of drugs,what about death?

You know,I had a very good friend in highschool die because he got a bad pill of E (extacsy).He was a good student and liked by many.He didnt do drugs often either.
These kids never really know what is in these drugs they are getting.My friends pill was cut with Heroin which is why he overdosed.
E also burns out the part of your brain that is capable of holding an emotion.People who use it often become erratic
which could explain some of Op's SD's behavior.

I would rather send my daughter to juvi hall,in hopes that she hated it so much she learned a lesson (that she never wanted to go back) then to possibly DIE.Flushing drugs down the toilet is simply looking the other way.

You're right about drugs, of course...

I hadn't thought the consequences through.

I just feel so sorry for this poor girl;

she's deeply troubled, her mother is ineffectual, & her mother's husband just wants her gone.

I think if he just wanted her gone or wanted to leave, he would have left. He's asked for advice so that's a good thing. She sounds like she needs more help than either of her parents can give and step dad, not being a parent doesn't have answers. My husband that hasn't dealt with teens has suggested some very inappropriate discipline and then after we discussed it, he realized it wasn't the right way to deal with it. Nobody is born with all the answers and I've said it many times, TAKE A PARENTING CLASS!!! It gives you so many positive tools that work with toddlers to adult children. It also helps to know the psychological development of children at different ages. For this guys step daughter, she needs professional help at this point. If not inpatient, then structured outpatient counseling at the very least. She is crying out for help.

The behavior you are describing for your SD raises HUGE red flags --- first, the eating disorders; going on 3 years now, I believe you wrote. Second, a suicide attempt; third, substance abuse; fourth, indiscriminate sex. You write to describe her biological father as a "waste of oxygen is an insult to oxygen;" you write that he warned your SD to not let you "touch" her (projection, maybe?); you wrote that the eating disorders began to manifest themselves after she spent a summer vacation with her father 3 years ago.

It does not take a degree in rocket science to see this girl's symptoms are screaming, "I HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED. PLEASE HELP ME!"

I would never accuse anyone specifically but everything you have written strongly points to something BAD happened to your SD the summer she spent with her father. I would find a professional who specializes in working with young girls who have been sexually abused and get my SD there yesterday!

Her behavior is SCREAMING for someone to notice that she has been injured and she needs care. I hope you are able to locate resources within your community that will offer her the care she needs.