I'm sorry to say it, but this is only going to get worse once you say "I do"! 13 year olds are difficult in a good situation, but your SD (step daughter) is screaming for attention (even though I'm sure she is getting it) and possibly wanting/needing some help! It sounds like you may all need some counseling to deal with this and to get to the bottom of the real issues. Right now your SD is wanting your fiance's full attention and is jealous that you are in the picture and is hoping to push you out with her negative behavior.

You have to make some decisions right now. You have not gotten married yet. Are you ready and willing to deal with this FOREVER? Stepkids do not go away just because they turn 18 and they don't just decide to "grow up" and suddenly behave themselves always either.

You may want to go and read through the post about would you be a stepmom again...

Maybe you should tell them all to get bent...

Totally kidding of course.

How long has this possible future step daughter known you?
Just three months,or is that just how long she has lived with you?
Is it actually YOUR house,or is it both yours and your BF's house? If it is YOUR house,then you absolutely should have a say in what is going on under your roof.
If it isnt,since you are only the girlfriend at this point,there isnt a whole lot you can do.Unless of course your Bf starts having your back more.
If your Bf doesnt have your back,or support you,then I definitely wouldnt marry the guy.In fact,I'm not sure I'd stay in the relationship either.

Sounds like your possible future step daughter has seen and been through a lot living with her mom and step father.
Saying stuff like she's "running away" is an attention getter.Why exactly was she running away? What happend that was so terrible for her to say that?
I really wish I had more advice,but it does sound as though your BF isnt very supportive (a common theme on these boards)
You definitely dont need his mom in your business either.Is there a reason why she is there so much?

"Maybe you should tell them all to get bent...

Totally kidding of course."

I'm not. You haven't married into this morass yet. There's still time.

Personally, I'd run like hell. Nobody's going to win in this one--least of all an unwanted stepmother. Sounds to me like you're choosing an awfully hard road. Why would you WANT to do that?

Please read the "Hindsight" thread.

She's flunking out of school, so Monday her dad went to the school to talk to a couple of her teachers..... rather than face dad, she wanted to run away. So she called grandma. I call BS on this one. If she'd have really wanted to run away, I doubt she'd have called grandma. She knows grandma will bust her chops for it and did (right after she busted ours). Been there, done that. If I remember correctly my grandmother who raised me for the msot part offered to help me pack my bags. (I was a very bad child.)

She's lived with us for 3 months and known me much longer than that. Her dad and I were close friends before we started dating and when we decided to get engaged after dating for over a year, we bought the house. So it's neither mine, nor his. It's ours. Grandma has absolutely no say. He says he values my opinion and he'll back me to the hilt, both with his mom and his child, but in private he questions me. Why this? Why do you think this? It drives me insane! I remember being 13, female, hormonal, and boy crazy, but this is beyond that. I just can't make him see that my experiences come into play here too... Isn't that why we all went through it? So we know how to rationalize with our children?

I honestly think there is some kind of emotional damage that this child needs help with, however at the same time everyone (including grandma) questions whether or not she's lying. Before she moved in with us we never had that problem, she even called me mom a few times and would sit and talk to me for hours about how things were with her, how she was feeling about things, and she was helping me with the plans for the wedding. That's the confusing gesture. She'll be ok one day and psychotic the next. (Oh the woes of teenage girls.)

Even now there are good days and bad days, the good days mainly on days that shopping or movie night is involved.

I think that she is screaming for attention. She's never had a stable environment. Her mom kept her away from her dad a lot, and when she did let him have her he wasn't the most attentive because he was afraid to get too close, since the ex used the child as leverage. A lot.

In the years that I've known him I've seen her mother offer to let him have her, let the baby get there, and then tell her she has to come home, even though my SD is begging to stay. It's been crushing for all of us, and it's been most tough on my fiance who has fought long and hard to get custody of his child and to get her out of that environment. So she's there now (her dad has custody) and it's all driving me insane, putting strain on our relationship because she'll admit that I'm fair to her and nice and love her, but she just wants her dad. She's used to her dad living the bachellor life, a steakhouse for dinner and a movie and call it good and not being responsible for anything around the house because she would only be there a couple of days at tops.

I've backed off and let things be, but last night I called bs.

She got snotty at the dinner table (he has a rule that we all eat together) and her dad called her on it, so she looked at him and told him she should have run away. I'd finally had it. I stood up and asked if she'd like help packing her bags, I'd be glad to do it, since she didn't like being there anyways. She just had a roof over her head, food in her mouth, spending money for her pockets, the best shoes, clothes, and electronics and if she didn't want that I was sure a child with less would be glad to have it. She stood there gape mouthed at me, and my fiance said he'd help too since she obviously did not appreciate the things she had. *Dances* One small victory that could completely blow up in my face, but at this point, what have we got to lose? She hates me for being with her father, hates me because we include her in our activities, hates me because I'm fair, love her as my own, and treat her like a human, and hates me because my son(six) who is passing school, not in trouble, or badmouthing people still has his electronic gadgets.

Could it be that she's rebelling against me because she's wanting to see how strong the bond really is? I read something about that in an earlier post.

Thank you all for your advice and knowledge!

A teen ager - synonomous with rebellion. I had three daughters, now grown thank goodness. It is very promising that your BF backed you up. My DH had to do that with my kids. Trust me, they rebel and test you at EVERY corner. It can get better, but it takes time for the brats to mature and outgrow the rebellion. Years, unfortunately. Keep it consistent, that's the best strategy in my opinion. Curiously, I didn't have much of a problem with my son after about age 10-12.

Op, is your only child the 6 yr old. Its different being parent of teenager. If I were the mom, I would be fighting for more CS and full custody after I heard Dads GF said DD should start packing. My guess is you will be in for years of fights. Some people enjoy that. I am the mom, I had no choice as to Dads GF. She has a choice.

We'll have years of fights despite what was said last night at the dinner table. She's a spoiled and troubled child who is used to getting her way when she throws a tantrum.

Her mother can't and won't file for custody again, she signed over rights in August because she couldn't and wouldn't deal with her. They might look into family life around BM's house and that could be a disaster.

Her father and I are literally her last resort before Juvenile Detention. She's been kicked out of 4 schools in a year, and is currently flunking out because she "just doesn't want to do her work". If she ran away, she'd go directly to Juvie, with absolutely no stops, no ipod, cell phone, or MTV.

Girlfriends come and go. You are already in doubt if you want to marry her dad, so why would she listen to you?

I'm in doubt that I want to marry her father? Really?

"Preferably before I go insane and tell them all to get bent. "

I guess that would raise doubt in my mind.

Not so much doubt as frustration. I never asked her to listen to me, or even to like me and my SO has basically dumped everything in my lap. Apparently he hasn't read "Dethroning the King/Queen" or The Evil Stepmother bit. (I did email them to him though!)

My main source of frustration is that she was great until she moved in with us. She talked about our upcoming wedding and the future possible children and was fine with my son. Until her mother pushed her into our laps. (I was literally doing laundry one day, my SO called and said "J has been kicked out of school again, and her mom wants her to come live with us now.")

Maybe she's wondering why her mother gave her up? I don't know. I've been reading the Stepfamily Help Page and How to turn your wife into an evil stepmother cracked me up. I kept sitting there going "Yeah Michael.." or "Hey now.... " Not exactly the kinds of things I wanted to be saying while reading that.

No, I don't doubt marrying him and I know that in marrying him, he's accepting my son and I'm accepting his child. I just know that I don't have to accept poor manners or a poor attitude and neither should he.

I guess I just need to figure middle ground. He asked me to step up and be a good example to his daughter (her mother really is not) and to treat her as I would treat my own. So I have. Yes I make mistakes with both kids, and I'm sure I'll reap the benefits of all the mistakes in due time, but at the same time I have to be true to myself. If I sit there and steam about it, I'll only resent this child who has brought so much strife into my once peaceful home, and that won't help things. Months ago I started catering my weekly menu to her tastes, making sure she has her female care products (what 13 year old wants to talk to dad about that?), and trying to make her feel welcome, safe, and loved there and to maybe make the transition a little easier. Yet it's all blown up in my face.

How can I step back and at the same time still run my household. If there were only one child involved, or just his children it wouldn't be an issue, but since my son is involved I can't just dump everything in his lap.

It's not that I worry what one child will get by with and the other won't because for the most part SO and I are on the same page with that (except for myspace and facebook, half naked pictures, boys, and posting things that shouldn't be posted on social pages. Oh and his mother's involvement....) the other won't, it's that I don't think any of us want to live in a household where everything is split down the middle. He takes her, I take him. WE have no middle ground. We have to drive to two different ends of the state for their BM and BD of BGM and BGP. What's the point in that? By the time we get home from dropping them off we're too tired to look at each other let alone take a trip or simply jump the other.

Thoughts?? Comments? Suggestions?

"Grandma is way too involved in our every day life"
nope.
Grandma is involved just the amount that she, her son, & her granddaughter want.

Read your posts as though they had been written by someone else.

You aren't even married yet, & you have no power, no credibility, no say-so, just a job description from your intended.
which can be changed at the drop of his hat.

& this is while he should be on his best behavior, putting his best foot forward;
it'll get worse after marriage, when he can afford to take you for granted.

Grandma/her son/his daughter have a functioning, if co-dependent, family that's working just fine *for the 3 of them*.

You're the outsider, the one whose role is to "step in" & do whatever the carp-shoveling chore of the day is.

You'll never be an equal partner,
you'll never be able to de-throne grandma,
& you'll never have any clout with his daughter no matter what.

Meanwhile, your own child will be growing up in this unhealthy environment, learning that family dynamics consist of power politics.

although I doubt that the marriage would last more than a couple of years before the 3 of them band together to run you off.

Read the "Future? Stepparent Experiencing Mixed Roles" thread to see what your own future will be like.

I wish you the best.

First I want to say congratulations for standing up to her at the dinner table.Even better your BF had your back on this one.
You know,some jails offer a tour of the facility for the troubled teens...just a thought.Seriously,if she thinks life is so bad now,she has another thought coming.
I know a lot of kids who went to juvi,and it was no picnic.
I'm talking about tough guys crying like a baby for being sent there.
Maybe not now,but if her behavior continues it might be the wake up call she needs.
Or maybe if you happen to have a cop friend they could "talk to her" about the path she is going down leading to trouble.
Oh yeah,and since it is your and his house together~You are the woman of the house and it is important she follows your rules.
Sounds like you are doing pretty good though,even though things are tough.

Sylvia is right.

For the life of me I do NOT understand why you would want to put your son through these things. He feels the stress. He sees and understands. Why do you want to introduce so much unrest into his life? He is your priority--what is best for HIM. He sounds like a good kid--why would you expose him to such upheaval?

FWIW, I do NOT think that you should be stepping up to parent your fiance's daughter. That is your fiance's job and it's painfully obvious that he cannot handle it and making you do the dirty work. That's the surest recipe for anger and resentment that I know and a damn good way to fall out of love with your husband or fiance. It's a dim future to be honest. People who love you don't make you the workhorse AND the bad guy.

Nope, I wouldn't touch the whole situation with a 10-foot pole.

I skimmed through the responses so I am not sure if anyone mentioned this......but have you thought about counseling for your soon to be sd? From her background she seems like she could really use it!! Just make sure you get a good counselor...not one of those "excuses" counselors. My friend was having trouble with her teen daughter being depressed, doing poorly in school, and giving her and hubby attitude and screaming mean things at them. Counselor gave excuses...like "she does those things to you because she feels safe with you".......BS!! So that is why I say find someone good!

If your planning on staying in this relationship I would suggest you and your fiancee get some counseling to deal with your issues with his mother and daughter before it ruins your relationship!!

Good luck!

Firstly, I think a lot of other posters are right, and you are probably foolish to get involved any deeper (ie marriage), since you are so distressed by your fiances daughter.

For your sake, and for the sake of the girl and her father, you should back out now.

When a 13 year old girl coming from an abusive background lies, doesnt do well in school, picks fights, and says she hates you, its not prudent to take it at face value and see it in a negative light, the way you are doing.

You are attributing adult motives to a 13 year old teen in the midst of puberty, struggling with big life changes in every area. Contrary to your posts, i very much doubt this girl is out to smear you , or is trying to be so much trouble that she breaks you and your fiancee up. When a young teen that age says " I hate you" it often means that they feel unloved or afraid of being rejected, so they will reject you first, hoping that you will reassure them. When she says she is running away, she doesnt want you to offer to pack her bags. SHe wants reassurance that her running away would make you sad, and thta you understand her frustrations , self loathing, and anxiety .

I truly see what this girl is doing as a cry for understanding, love, and acceptance. YOu are taking it as a personal insult, and your post indicates you are totally not willing to give the girl what she is seeking. YOu dont have to acknowledge her attention seeking directly but neither do you have to react negativly to it. It would help if she got positive attention when she isnt asking for it.

THe girl does need counselling, both b y herself and with her family, her father, and her grandmother, and if you are sticking this one out, with you as well. Unfortunately, one of the things t hat she needs most is a sense of security - that she is loved, that she is wanted, and that nothing she can do will make her father stop loving her.She needs to feel that she BELONGS, especially considering her background.

Hurting teens OFTEN push the envelope. It takes someone who loves the child, who can think the way a teen does, who can empathize with what the person has endured in the past, to be able to accept and guide the person back to emotional health. There is no fast cure, and its not an easy fix.

I had three foster children who came to me as teens and manifested some , or all of the qualities that you have mentioned in your letter. DId I want to wring my hands and strangle them? YES. DId I? NO.

I got counselling for them, and counselling for myself so I could better understand why, and what to do about it. I learned that kids...human beings of any age for that matter, will find their own way in life, as long as they feel safe and secure, and that they matter. They will make mistakes and some of them will be huge ones. But the mistakes are theirs to make, and if you love someone, you dont turn your back on them just because they are screwing up, particularly when the screwup is because they are hurting inside. You may not like their choices, and you may not like the path they choose, but its t heir path to choose.Its helpful to realize that for some kids, it takes them a long long time to find the right path and they may try out several wrong roads first. Dont give up on them.

The best gift you can give a child, whether its your own, or someone elses, if you are a teacher or aunt, or stepparent, is to keep believing the best of them. Praise the good. Ignore the bad when possible, and when its not possible, dont over react to the bad. Make them feel secure. Let them know you love them, believe in them, will stand by them, and that even if you dont agree with what they are doing, they matter. Way way too many people have conditional love. If they do what you want you love them. If they dont, you want to get rid of them. Thats not love.

Human beings respond well to praise, not anger. Find something every day that is good and comment on it.

Eventually if you stand firm, and give the child what she needs, the bad actions will dissipate .although she may never beocome what you THINK she should be. SHe doesnt have to. She has only to become herself. Its not going to happen overnight. It may take months to see improvement.

IF you drive her away, you lose the relationship. When you love someone, nothing is worth losing the relationship over.

I know i sound ridiculously syrupy . These are things I have learned in my own life. I raised four kids of my own ( although one is still at home) and three fosters through their teens to adulthood. Some of them had a rough road. But they all made it through and they all became self supporting, reasonable adults, and most importantly, our relationship is strong and full of love and respect, and remained intact.

you asked why i think you are in doubt if you want to marry the father. Well here is the quote from your post "I'm engaged, we haven't quite hit the altar yet, and as things stand right now, it's all questionable".

I know where you are coming from and understand the girl is driving everybody nuts and treats you bad along with everyone else. But since you are not married to him and it is questionable if you ever will, she might not feel any obligations listening to you. I think her father has to step up and take some measures.

My SD began having behavior problems while we were planning our wedding. Later, we found out her mom was having a problem with the whole thing (us getting married) She was either 1. not fully over my husband (and they hadn't been together for over 5 years) or 2. She was jealous that we were getting married and she was having trouble finding her own relationship, or 3. she felt threatened that we were forming a "family" and she was a single parent.

Those are just guesses but as the wedding approached, she went from being friendly to complaining about everything we did in regard to "their" daughter. Just an example, I saw their daughter had a little bit of a weight problem & cried because kids teased her. I cut back her sweets & gave her milk with dinner instead of soda. Mom got angry at me for that. I can show pics of before and six months later, she looks healthy, not overweight. So, then I get a "you're not her mom, I am!" I've never tried to be her mom but I am a mom and I try to do what's best for the child.

Anyways, a 7 year old is not close to the same as a 13 year old. If you have never raised someone elses children, I would think hard about it. I studied family relations, psychology, marriage, child development & spent 7 years raising my ex's 3 children (while raising my own 3) so I had a good idea about what to expect when I married my husband. Plus, I am a step child so I had that perspective... and it's still not easy.

I would recommend a long engagement, parenting classes, and for her, a counselor. If you choose to marry him, realize that the divorce rate is very high for second marriages (or when step kids are involved) He's going to have to be an active parent and support you 200%. You are going to have to command her respect. She doesn't have to like you and may never love you, but you deserve to be treated with respect. In turn, you must treat her with respect. And it's the ADULT'S responsibility to make the first move in giving respect. Not because the kids deserve it, but because kids usually are not mature enough to reason and they are quick to say "well, you aren't respectful to me so why should I respect you?"

Just some stuff to think about. Good luck

NOTE~ I only read the original post so that is what I'm writing on.

Thank you Plasticgarden! At least someone understands frustration around here! I actually suggested that to my SO a couple of weeks ago and we're looking into it. I have several friends that are cops and know someone in the juvie, probation, and foster system too. I think she may need to be scared like that. This poor child thinks that she can do anything she wants with no consequence. (Boo to her mother for letting her get by with mayhem! And boo to Grandma for not enforcing her father's grounding!) She told us the night she got her report card that she didnt' know an F was bad. No one had ever pushed her to be better, and her father, her grandmother (we finally had a serious discussion, and no it didn't come to blows!), and I are. This baby has no manners (table or otherwise), no respect for anyone, and no regard for money or other people's belongings.

Thank you finedreams! I agree. *kicks dad in arse* We've been talking about the problems and we're taking the "timeouts" we need in the evenings after the kids are in bed so we can deal with the issues and start enjoying each other again. I asked him to see things through my eyes and told him my frustrations about feeling like a stranger in my own home. Needless to say it seems like he's listening now!

And thank you mom2emall! We've been looking into counselling for us all this week (around here it's difficult) and we think we may have found someone. Also, she's going through counselling with her school. On the up side, this week we've seen dramatic improvement in her attitude at school. So much so that her teachers have called to ask what we did with our child! Ha! *does a little dance*

And thank you to imamommy! Brilliant! She's mentioned a few times what her mom thinks of our engagement and I've kind of blown it off... hearing this, it makes me think. My SO and my SD's mom were never married, they were in a relationship for 4 years. SD exists because BM thought she could convince my SO to marry her if she got PG. Needless to say, that didn't work. Also, I love love love your line:

"So, then I get a "you're not her mom, I am!" I've never tried to be her mom but I am a mom and I try to do what's best for the child."

I'm not her mom, will never be her mom, but I am a mother, and I try to do what's best for this child because I LOVE her as I would my own child.

Counselling may be the trick, or it may not, but surely it can't hurt. (well maybe, until she gets over resenting that we're sending her).

And thank you Kathline! "Eventually if you stand firm, and give the child what she needs, the bad actions will dissipate .although she may never beocome what you THINK she should be. SHe doesnt have to. She has only to become herself. Its not going to happen overnight. It may take months to see improvement." That's why I'm here. I'm standing firm with my family as that's what they've become over the past few months.

I value all ideas, suggestions, and advice and thank you for taking the time to help us out. I'm sticking in there, because I love my family, but also because I'm stubborn and refuse to give up on this child. Maybe I'm dead wrong and I'll end up a bitter divocee, but I don't know that. At this point I don't know a lot.

Just so you know first that I have experience in this area:)
I just had my 17th anniversary with my wonderful husband. When we married he had 3 children and I one. We have had two together.

You keep saying you love this child like your own. Are you sure? Do you love your fiance?

If you answered yes, you need to put your money where your mouth is. Would you ever walk out on your son? No, you would work through it. She needs you and it is easy to see that you care about her. She is testing your love. It is obvious she has many needs. One may be counseling, but she certainly needs to know if you are going to walk out on her. She is not trusting, as her parents are not together any longer, like she expected they should be. No doubt she feels like there is no stability in her life. You two have had good times, and will again if you stick it out.

Your decision is a big one. She is waiting. It may get worse, it may get better. The same can be said for anything in life. You have no guarantees with her or your son. They have their own free agency, they make their own decisions.

It is still worth it in the end if you have given your all.

My three step children are grown now, it is still not easy, but always worth it.

My best wishes are with you,

Kim

How can you flunk out of public school? And what kind of school doesn't allow you to chew gum? My kids say everyone chews gum in class in their school, and even back in the 60's we chewed gum in class. Shouldn't she be on an IEP?

Kim: First congratulations on your anniversary! Thank you for your response! That's just the thing I needed to hear this morning! I wouldn't walk out on my son, and I won't walk out on this child either. It's just a matter of convincing her of that... which is the tough part. I'm learning the value of patience. With my son it's easy to have patience. He knows who runs the house, and yes he'll test me, but ultimately he knows that I love him. With my SD it's a little difficult.... she doesn't know that I'd go to the wall with her like I would my own child, and though I've been there and done exactly that as a child she doesn't see that. I'll admit it's frustrating and some days I want to beat my head into a wall, but I'd do it all over again. This child and her father are worth fighting for whether they believe it or not.

We have our good times still, not with any regularity, but we have them, and it gives me hope that maybe I'm not crazy after all. Thank you!

Otherside: Well, as she's in 8th grade they have multiple classes.... 8 of them to be precise. So since she's getting failing grades in most of her classes, she's flunking out. They will probably end up holding her back if she doesn't pass the next semester which begins in January. If she does, it's summer school to make up the first semester. Her father has spoken to her teachers, and none of them are saying she's having a problem comprehending, it's simply that she does not want to do her work or homework.

As for gum, I've lived in several states and none of the schools I've ever been to have allowed gum. One because it's distracting, two because children are prone to spit it on the floor, and three because children are prone to take it out of their mouths and stick it under the edge of their desks. So they don't allow it and will give kids caught with it detention.

She's not supposed to have gum anyways because of braces.

OK so I am new to the stepmom thing myself (I am engaged to a guy with a 2 year old), but after reading all of the feedback i was wondering, does the step daughter have any healthy outlets for her anger? Does she like to do any sports? Maybe look into getting her into something she would enjoy with good influences that aren't associated with a parental figure could help. I would also recommend the therapy thing, or maybe even a support group for kids in a similar situation. You know that she is dying for attention, but must also feel very alone. Keep in mind also that as much effort that you have put into all of this your fiance is ultimately the parent and needs to be the main one putting down ground rules for his child (especially in the beginning). One of the best things I learned from this site was the ability to Disengage. I sat down with my fiance and we read this together and it really helped. http://www.geocities.com/histigerlily/disengage.html
Has anyone asked your step daughter what she wants? Maybe if you can present choices to her she would feel more in control of her own life and not feel so rebellious... just a thought. I haven't had a lot of experience with this stuff myself just thought i would add my two cents....Sounds to me like she is acting out and on top of it dealing with hormones of a teenager. She needs to feel acceptance, but at this age she probably needs it more from her peers than she does from you or her father (tho that is important too), so just keep that in mind.

Here is a link that might be useful: Disengage essay

soon2be,

I think sports is a great suggestion. At my DDs school, anyone on a team has to keep their grades up. also, I think it is great to suggest, lets try X, and not, dont do that. Think positive.

I have to comment on this line:

"Counselling may be the trick, or it may not, but surely it can't hurt. (well maybe, until she gets over resenting that we're sending her)."

slowdownthecrazy,

If you don't approach it like you are "sending" her to be fixed, then she may be more receptive. We found an excellent counselor and my SD can't wait to go spend an hour with her counselor. It's not a "quick" fix, she's been going for months and we work on one issue at a time.

Her mom began acting jealous during the engagement & she had originally invited herself to our wedding (we didn't say no at first) but when she began causing conflict as the wedding got closer, he let her know she wasn't invited. After the wedding, she had SD call us every hour during our honeymoon. It just kept getting worse, with her making threats to take his daughter away from him. (They had 50/50) so he filed for a court order since they didn't have one. They both asked for full custody but the court kept it at 50/50, which we were happy with, he just wanted an order so she couldn't up and leave like she kept threatening. Three weeks after the trial, she met a new guy and moved away to live with him (she moved while we had SD for that week) and when it was time for her to get her daughter, she had to tell us she had moved. She signed over full custody without blinking. This was devastating to her daughter, whom she had told over & over that daddy wants to take you away but I won't let him. Then she dumps her for some guy she just met.

We were having trouble dealing with the kids (mine as well) and took a cooperative parenting class and a class called "active parenting for stepfamilies" Both are excellent tools to learn strategies for avoiding conflict and getting along for the sake of the children. It's not easy and it's hard to hear my SD cry in her room when mom disappoints her but all I can do is offer comfort. I can't make her mom be a good mom. and her mom has a problem with me loving her and her liking me. I tell SD that I'm sorry her mom feels that way but it's ok for her to feel that way. I tell her that she can like who she wants and that I want us to have a good relationship and get along. Sometimes she's difficult but so are all kids. My own kids have their moments...

I realize that gum and braces are not a good mix, but there is evidence that gum chewing helps people, especially those with ADD or SPD, to focus:
http://spdnetwork.org/aboutspd/spdadd.html

http://media.www.ccnycampus.com/media/storage/paper832/news/2006/05/22/Feature/Chew-Your.Way.To.Success-1922143.shtml

If the child is flunking several classes, she should have a complete educational and psychosocial evaluation. The school is REQUIRED to do this within a very short period of time after a parent requests it. It is not optional. You can't flunk out of public school, and public schools are required to provide services for children who are significantly below grade level in performance, whether because of physical, cognitive, or emotional disability.

Otherside... where are you from? Because you're obviously not from here. You can flunk out of public schools here, and kids get held back all the time. I'm a teacher, so don't tell me I'm wrong. This child will be held back a year if she does not pass the rest of this semester and at least half of the next.

I was going to write a long reply in response to the smut you've posted, but why waste the energy, you obviously think you're right. Schools aren't required to do anything in a timely manner when at least 3,000 "troubled" children in the district are ahead of her in line and psychosocial evals? Try a work aptitude test followed by a work attitude test. That's what we really wanted to know. Whether or not she could actually DO the work. We already know she has issues.

I'll write more later. I'm going to go cook my family dinner.

I don't know of any state where they can kick a child out of school because she was flunking. In my area, children are rarely held back, though it does happen occasionally. In my state, the school's testing must be completed within 30 school days of the parental (or doctor's, teacher's, etc.) signed request. A team meeting must be held within 45 days of the initial signed parental request. They must perform an educational assessment and any other assessments related to the suspected disability. Parents can also request, and the school must carry out if requested, a number of other assessments, including a psychological assessment.

I never said anything about being kicked out for flunking. I said she'd be held back. She'll be kicked out for the gum, the talking during class, and general disruptive behavior if she gets one more detention. Suspension for 3 days, then if it continues, suspension again, and then expulsion.

Here parents can sign anything they want, but until certain red tape is gone through, the waiting lists shorten, and the school gets around to it, it's a waste of time. We've already requested counselling through the school and they're saying it will be the first of the year before they can get her worked into the schedule. We've already had the work aptitude and attitude tests done and it shows that she's generally lazy. I've seen it 100 times. It's the age group.

The educational system here is so overworked with gang members, beaten children, and starving and homeless children that they just can't drop everything. There are no such things as teams here, there are too many children and not enough educators to go around. In our district alone (6 schools) there are over 20,000 children. They really don't mind losing the ones that they do because I'm sure they figure that they did the best they could and they can't help everyone. A sad realization, but true.

It's really up to the parents. There aren't enough resources in the schools to diagnose or fix problems. Thus private counseling, more help with homework and tutoring, and more understanding.

I've been there, I was a SK myself and I know it's tough.

The school doesn't have a choice. They can not ignore federal law:

http://www.ed.gov/parents/needs/speced/iepguide/index.html

The parents can, and should, take the school system to court if they are ignoring the special education laws.

TheOtherside,I know where you are coming from because last year I suspected my child may be dyslexic,and the school DOES have to test for disability,etc,etc.
However,slowdowntherecrazy said her SD was Already tested and she doesnt have a problem understanding,she is just being lazy and not doing the work at all.
So how is that ignoring federal law if they just cant get her to do the work?

"We've already had the work aptitude and attitude tests done and it shows that she's generally lazy."

plasticgarden,

It doesn't sound like the child had anything close to thorough cognitive or psycho-educational testing done, and the OP said the school "didn't have teams." These things are not optional. Has the child completed the WISC? Depression screening? Testing for ADD or dyslexia? Evaluation by an SLP? A reading specialist? An OT and PT? Have the parents hired an advocate?

As an educator myself, I can tell you that this child has no educational problems. She's had ALL the tests. She has admitted to her father and myself that she just doesn't want to do her work. We've had the work aptitude and the work attitude tests done which are the stair steps to the major testing such as you're talking about. However when a stair-step test (which is regulated by the STATE) proves that the child does not have a learning disability, the school's hands are tied.

She's been tested for all of the above. We've had her in and out of Sylvan and half a dozen other programs trying to figure out the problem only to be told by ALL of the programs, school tests, and psychologists that she does not want to do her work.

She's been applying herself at school since she and her father had a discussion almost 2 weeks ago and the Edline program shows her grades in her classes as MUCH improved. A's in science, B's in Algebra, A's in her home ec class. This child is troubled, she does not have a learning disability.

Also TOS, the website you put up, only applies for children who test positive for a learning disability. , not for children being tested for a learning disability. My son is dyslexic, this isn't my first rodeo with the school system.

People don't "test positive" for a learning disability. It's not that simple.

The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act includes mental illness/emotional disturbance/"troubled" children:

http://idea.ed.gov/explore/view/p/%2Croot%2Cregs%2C300%2CA%2C300%252E8%2Ca%2C1%2C

The question is WHY doesn't she want to do the work. What is standing in the way of her succeeding in school? "Laziness" is not a diagnosis. Have you read Levine's "The Myth of Laziness?"
I don't know what you mean when you said the web site for which I posted the url didn't apply if the child didn't have an identified learning disability. Steps 1, 2, and 3 deal with the evaluation and possible identification of a learning disability.

Of course it's not that simple you pompus pain in my a$$. This child does NOT have a learning disability. She's 13, she's hormonal, and she's gone from an environment where her BM did not correct her for bad grades to an environment where it's expected (by her father) that she do as well as she can. She was allowed to slide on every D or below by her BM.

This child is not stupid as her grades the past two weeks have shown, and she does not have a learning disability. She simply doesn't want to apply herself.

Question though.... Since when did you become an expert in my state's special education system? As a special education instructor of 6 years(yeah that's right.) as well as a qualified Calculus and trigonometry teacher I think I'd know a little more about the system here considering I fight for the kids in my system daily. You haven't seen learning disabilities until you've actually been there.

That website doesn't show junk. It was written by a bunch of stuffed shirt politicians who wouldn't know a learning disability from a rock.

"Child Find." The state must identify, locate, and evaluate all children with disabilities in the state who need special education and related services. To do so, states conduct "Child Find" activities. A child may be identified by "Child Find," and parents may be asked if the "Child Find" system can evaluate their child. Parents can also call the "Child Find" system and ask that their child be evaluated. Or

Referral or request for evaluation. A school professional may ask that a child be evaluated to see if he or she has a disability. Parents may also contact the child's teacher or other school professional to ask that their child be evaluated. This request may be verbal or in writing. Parental consent is needed before the child may be evaluated. Evaluation needs to be completed within a reasonable time after the parent gives consent."

That's step one. "THE STATE MUST identify, locate, and evaluate all children with disabilities in the state who need special education and related services." The state. Different states, different procedures. As we were concerned about this child when she came to live with us we had her tested before she was properly enrolled in school. By the schools and by private methods. As her grades from the previous year showed that she did well the first semester and dropped off towards the end of the year, as a parent and as an instructor, of course I was concerned. So the tests. As I've said probably 50 times before this child shows NO sign of a learning disability. Her vision has been tested twice in 6 months because she does wear glasses, and that's a concern also.

Care to grill me some more. Want me to fax you the copies of the test scores and outcomes? A therapists notes? A graph of her sleep cycle? A copy of my grocery lists? Hell we'd might as well be thorough here since you're such an expert.

So the guidance documents published by United States Department of Education can be safely ignored because you think:

"That website doesn't show junk. It was written by a bunch of stuffed shirt politicians who wouldn't know a learning disability from a rock."

As a mother of three children with learning disabilities, a former college instructor, a former director of a program for college students with learning disabilities and mental illnesses, and 12 years of experience tutoring middle and high school students, I do have some knowledge in this area. Children do not WANT to fail in school just for the heck of it. Something is wrong - saying that she doesn't want to apply herself is a cop-out. You said that she was raised in an abusive home. Whether she has a learning disability or an emotional disturbance, the school should be addressing her special needs.

I think there genuinely are people who just don't want to apply themselves...
For example, I've almost never had to try in school. I came out of Canadian public school about a decade ago with perfectly respectable grades, but I skipped most of my classes and didn't do most of my homework. I was a teenager and didn't particularly want to spend my time studying - my theory was 'why apply myself when I could sit on my butt and still get Bs?'
I definitely did NOT have a learning disability (as evidenced by that I now have an honours degree in biochemistry and am halfway to my PhD in biology) I was just lazy and bored.

Of course, there are plenty of kids who aren't doing well in school and do have learning disorders (often undiagnosed). My dad didn't do well in school; my mom realized he had dyslexia when he was about 23. Luckily for my brother, mom saw the signs early in him and found the resources he needed.
There was also a boy in my elementary school who failed almost every test, rarely did his homework, acted out constantly, and so on. All our teachers just thought "R__ is a bad kid"... When we were in grade six and had our first round of standardized tests, our teacher realized that he read at a grade one level and all his previous teachers had just pushed him through to 'get rid' of the problematic kid in the class, rather than address his learning difficulties.

There are kids at both extremes, and kids in the middle. There are outside factors that affect the whole spectrum, and I think that it's just about determining and addressing what's affecting that particular child - be it emotional disturbance or learning disorder or boredom and laziness.

ceph,

I am not surprised you were bored, if you are capable of getting a PhD in biology. I don't know about Canada, but public schools in the United States often don't meet the needs of gifted children. You were able to get "B's" without trying very hard - but would you have been ok with not trying very hard and getting "D's" and "F's" and having to repeat the grade?

Many children with learning or emotional disabilities give up when the going gets too difficult. They just don't have the emotional resources to try anymore. This doesn't mean they don't want to apply themselves, or that they are satisfied with "F's." Often "F's" are a sign of depression, and a call for help.

Haha, getting Ds was a complete impossibility for me. I skipped class all week, didn't do my homework, showed up for the exam and got a B. I would have had to actively TRY to fail in order to get a D or F, which would have been more effort than simply not bothering to succeed. As I said, I was lazy.

You're bang-on that Fs and Ds are often signs of depression or a child who's too worn out to try anymore, but I think 'often' is the key word there. It's not always the case, but it's something to think about in the realm of that particular child and the factors that have brought them to that point.

But if you hadn't been gifted, or the classes had been more difficult, showing up at the exam wouldn't have been enough to pass. According to the OP, the child in question had been raised in an abusive home, by a mother who drank and used drugs. She then moved into another home. Under the circumstances, I think it would be amazing if the child were not depressed or emotionally exhausted. I don't think that there are ANY children who are perfectly content with failing everything, repeating the grade, and having their parent disappointed and angry at them.

As I have said before, I spent 33 years in a second marriage and can say it will only get worse, so I would leave now. If it's loving him that makes you hesitate, what will happen to that love if you spend a few years going through those problems 24./7.

Not an option Jonesy. Thanks, but sorry. Not an option for me.

Exactly Ceph... there are children who just don't give a flying fig. This is one of them. When she does apply herself, she does very well. She just doesn't want to be bothered with it. It interupts her time with her boyfriend or her time with her friends.

TOS, I agree with you on the emotional part. She is emotionally twisted up and I see that. (Any mother worth her salt would.)

I didn't say that she's content. She's still angry and hurt, but until she decides that she wants to apply herself or her attitude changes toward life, she's going to remain angry and hurt. That's why I agree with so many about the counselling. It will help her come to terms with why she's angry and hurt. It would also be a good idea for the entire family to be involved.