Ask the inspector to take a look at 680.10 in the 2005 NEC. The restriction is no underground wiring under the pool or within 5 feet horizontally from the inside edge of the pool. If there are space restrictions, by using metal conduit, you can get even closer.

You don't have it "down pat" or you would not be referring to things by the wrong names. Your subpanel is not getting a "service". Service comes from the utility. You are running a feeder.

As far as the NEC goes, the underground wiring must be 5' (not 10) from the pool. You can run it closer if there isn't space to do otherwise. Your local jurisdiction may have more stringent requirements (though a cursory check shows they pretty much use the 2002 NEC directly).

Thank you for the information...and it makes sense. As to not knowing the language, that has nothing to do with knowing the physics of electricity. I promise you, I can emabarrass you with your lack or terminology in certain fields you feel confident in. That does not make you less knowledgable...it makes you less familiar and I would never attempt to embarrass you because of it. For example, my father doesn't know an end wrench from a spark plug. But he's a genius and world reknown in the field of chemical engineering and knows more about what goes on in the combustion process than most in the world.

Electricity isn't voodoo. It's physics...and very simple physics at that. It's understanding all the safety codes that get folks in trouble. I agree...they are there for very good reasons and that knowledge is worth paying for...or learning yourself...just as you did.

Oh boy.

IMO (not that anyone cares)Physics is more applicable to electrical theory.

Physics or Chemistry? Most of the power generated in this country comes from the combustion of fossil fuels. Since combustion is a chemical process, and electrons are part of the chemical makeup of atoms, I vote for chemistry.

Most of the power generated in this country (Canada) comes from hydro. Since there is no combustion involved, only falling water spinning turbines, I vote for physics.

If one pursues the academic disciplines of chemistry and physics far enough, they begin to blend with each other. I did not go to that point.

Yes, and tell me how your tremendous understanding of physics (or chemistry) is going to explain what the clearances for electrical wiring and fixtures from pools are? or the requirement for the size of the bonding wire? or the requirement that the grounding conductor be separately insulated? or the specific requirements for lighting?

There's a ton of stuff that is important to safety (unlike most of your DIY electrical stuff, you're going to stick your body in a conductor liquid that is the result of your work). The code all has sound PHYSICS reasonings behind it but most of it would not be immediately apparent to the physics (or even EE) graduate.

ronnatalie...I agree with you 110%. Theory of electricity isn't rocket science...at least at this level. (there are applications when it's above all but the best minds in the business) But knowing the codes and why they are there is what separates those who think they know from those that really do know. I don't know. That's why I'm here...and regardless of my previous post directed at you, I really do appreciate all your input. You obviously know much more about this than I do. I have a copy of the NEC. And I still don't get all I need out of it. So I'm in awe of you guys that know this stuff like the back of your hand.

But I do have another question for you pros if I may. One thing we are doing here is cleaning up a bunch of switches, relays, timers, etc into one enclosure. The enclosure we are using is an Intermatic with provisions for a timer and another switch of choice...which will be an air switch for the spa jet pump. We are also going to mount the timer for the floor cleaner valve that needs to cycle every half hour. Plenty of room for this. But some of the existing boxes are plastic, one is metal. None are grounded...not even through the rigid conduit. (rigid conduit only goes to plastic box) The new enclosure has a grounding block. Since the feed from the main panel has 3 sets of hots for 240V pumps plus one hot and neutral for 120V service to the pool, and one green ground wire, would I be safe (legal) to run the ground from the house panel to the pool panel grounding block and distributing it from there to where required? Also, none of the boxes (metal or otherwise) are bonded. I intend to attach a bonding wire of correct size to the existing bonding wire for the pump motors with an approved copper or brass lug and attach the other end to the new panel enclosure. Should that be safe? According to what I read in the NEC, that should do it, but it's not specific. And lastly, the existing rigid conduit out of the ground will not align with the new panel enclosure knock outs. I want to shorten the rigid conduits and attach flexible metal conduit to them to run to the new enclosure. I can't find a reference to this procedure anywhere in the code. Is this safe and legal where it's obvious the rigid conduit isn't uses as a ground? And even if it were, wouldn't tying in my ground wire to my enclosure take care of compromising that ground with flexible metal conduit? Thank you for your advice.

Now you're confusing me. If you have three "sets" of hots and a "hot/neutral" and a ground, you don't have a subpanel at all. You've just got a big junction box at the far end if I understand you properly.

You are not required to ground or bond non-conductive boxes. The metal boxes should be grounded. They're not probably required to be bonded (unless you can touch them from the pool). The pumps themselves and any related equipment (heaters, etc...) should be bonded. If you're not using the conduit as the ground, you can even use non-metalic conduit to make the connection.

That is great information and answers my question. None of the boxes can be touched from the pool or spa and in fact are at least 10' from the water's edge. But we will both ground them and bond them anyway. I'll attach an appropriate bare copper wire from the box and attach it to the bonding system for the motors and heater with a brass lug.

Now to answer yours...you are correct. All we have is a big junction box at the pool. The original electrician chose to run all these wires from the main house panel instead of just building a sub panel and running a feed. His way had to be a lot more difficult too. I don't understand his reasoning. It's sure making it difficult for us as we would love to install a complete Aqua Logic system...but can't because we don't have the necessary wiring for a sub panel. We would need to run a complete new feed and conduit...and that is a major job.

It's cheaper and easier to run the individual circuits. I've got a pool I installed in our basement it has two 240V and two 120V units (hydraulic motor, heater, circulating pump, lights). I priced it out and it was cheaper in the wire alone to just run the separate circuits. It certainly beat pulling the #4 or 6 (don't recall now) that would have been necessary.

Nothing you say sounds bad, but just to reiterate, the metal boxes (where you have them) must be grounded via the equipment grounding conductor coming from the main panel separate from the #8 bonding wire you are using for bonding.

Thank you ronnatalie. And I do appreciate you reiterating the difference between grounding and bonding. I realize they serve different purposes...and although I may not completely understand that difference, I do know it's there and needed. It will be done.

Grounding means connecting the equipment back to the building ground point. Just about everything is required to be grounded these days (that's the green/bare wire in all your circuits, the center pin on the receptacles, etc...). The wire for this is sized based on the wires carrying the current to the circuit. In the case of pool equipment this ground must be insulated all the way back as they want to make real sure it is not picking up any stray ground current s from any conduit/raceway/boxes it passes through.

Bonding means connecting two conductive parts together so they are at the same voltage. In the case of a pool you want anything that comes in contact electrically with the pool water (pumps, pool structure) as well as anything you could touch to be electrically at the same voltage. This means if you were to touch between the pool water and a metal ladder, even if the water were to be energized at 240V, you would not put your self in the circuit as the water and the ladder itself is both bonded to the same voltage. The bonding wire must be #8.

Since you are going beyond the typical DIY "Wiring Simplified" level of knowledge, I might recommend you order (or see if you can borrow from the library) the book called the NEC Handbook. This is essentially, an "annotated" version of the electrical code which includes extra explanation to explain the base code (which it includes as well) and some explanatory pictures as well. I keep both the 2002 and 2005 versions of this on my desk as ready reference (I build in two different jurisdictions that use those differing versions of the code). As I said before I looked into to Chandler Az and the online docs I found there seem to indicate they use the 2002 NEC with no substantial modification.

Wow! Thanks for the advice on the book! I'm going online and purchase it today. I already purchased the 2005 NEC code for residential houses. I've found it very useful...but confusing at times. The handbook sounds like it will explain these confusing issues. I'm never going to be an electrician, but I'm not an Automotive Tech either...yet I got involved with automotive computer systems years ago and have never stopped. I own some very sophisticated and expensive equipment for working with these incredibly complex systems and I'm always going to factory training seminars on new technology. I am also now an instructor in these systems for a major supplier. All from being a "hobby". I just like to know about what interests me. You have been a great help.