And no doubt when SS2 comes back to your town to visit he will expect to stay in your home. I'd be suggesting they find a hotel, but then they may spit the dummy and not come, depriving you of the chance to see the grandies. How do SS2 and his wife behave when they are visiting you? Are they as rude as they are on their own turf?

She has never been warm and engaging. She does the bare minimum to be civil. She responds to questions if asked. She never initiates conversations. SS2 is a bit more conversational; polite and civil. I think the DIL tolerates DH because he is SS's father and the children's grandfather; she ignores me because I have no biological relationship to them.
DH shared more of his conversation with SS, offering a detail I thought was telling. SS apparently told his dad, having us there was a disruption to their routine, that normally they would let the infant grandson cry himself back to sleep at night, and with us present in the house, they didn't feel they could do that, so they'd be getting up and taking the baby to bed with them, preventing them from getting a good night's sleep. DH said he reassured his son they didn't have to do that, that the baby wouldn't disturb him. SS responded with, "Well, your our guest." DH replied, "No, it's family." SS: "Well, you know what I mean."

I think this is the crux of it. When SS2's daughter was born and DH went out to see her, he told SS he would find a hotel. SS told DH he expected his dad to stay with them and it had been that way for more than 4 years. This is first time I've traveled out there since then. DH is tolerated because of the biological relationship. I have no such standing.

They are talking about coming back this way late next Spring. I am hoping it will coincide with my niece's HS graduation, so I will conveniently be out of town. If not, I'll conveniently be out of town anyway. I haven't seen my best friend from college in a couple years. It will be nice to see her again.

The reality is that the parents have a great deal of influence on their kids' attitudes toward their new spouse but unless the child is open to accepting, nothing anyone says or does will make any difference.

My son was not nice to my DH. I had many talks with my son about how it hurt me to have him treat someone I care about like that, I told him how he will be an adult soon & out on his own while my husband will still be here, that my husband makes me happy, and that one day he may meet a girl I am not 'thrilled' with and because I love him, I will try to do everything possible to be kind for his sake. Eventually, my son came around because I would not tolerate his behavior. He had to choose to alienate me or accept my husband. They are not best friends but my son is respectful & they are cordial to each other. (I also had to stand up for my son to my DH... but not where my son could hear me)

My dad went throught it when he married my SM. Our parents had been married for 20 years & when my dad met SM, he "changed". He dressed "younger" and did things he never did before, like sailing/camping. I thought it was great... loved seeing dad be more active & happy. My sister HATED it. She resented SM & was horrible to her. Dad stood up for SM with all of his kids, but no matter what he said or did with my sister, she wanted nothing to do with having a SM... and she wasn't even close to our mom.

That has been one of the biggest problems in my situation with SD. Well, she has been groomed by her mother... but I also found out that when SD would complain about me to her dad, he would validate her complaints by acknowledging that I am mean to her and offering her sympathy. (ie. she might say that I won't let her come out of her room, which isn't true. ~SHE 'feels' like she can't come out when I am there because she is not comfortable being around me~.) He would say he's sorry, he'll talk to me & then tell her how she should appreciate all the things I do or have done for her, which probably only makes her want to reject anything I do for or give her because she doesn't want to feel she has to have gratitude or appreciation... by rejecting it, she can say I don't do anything for her. His talks with her are actually counterproductive to making things better. That is one thing that we are dealing with in counseling.

wrychoice1, I hope your DH stood up for you to his son. There is no excuse for treating people that way & it really is sad that they cannot be cordial, even if they have to fake it. Somewhere in their mind, they feel it's okay to do that & I hope your DH makes it clear that it's NOT okay with him to treat people like that... I mean, would they treat strangers that way? They are demonstrating to their children, how to treat people. That is the sad part. It is also sad that your relationship with the grandkids will suffer... and it's sad that they are depriving their kids of a closer relationship with their grandparents.

Hi Wry, Who knew PAS could happen with adult children? Certainly not me either..I dont think you should worry too much about if you hadnt dated during seperation, the SK s would feel differently.My DH lived in a different state and was divorced for years before I met him, and I have the feeling SS feels I stand in the way of his parents reuniting, after he and I being together almost ten years.My situation mirrors yours, I have not seen SS in at least Four years, never saw grandchild..DH , I think has seen SS 4 or 5 times in his(SS S) home, if he ever wanted to come here, I would leave too until he was gone.I see nothing wrong with low contact, no contact, disengaging, or just flat out running away from the problem child/adult..I think I m in the minority here, but I dont consider being excluded, ignored,discounted in this family means I have to take what they dish out. Being submissive and/or apologizing for a situation I didnt create doesnt work for me..

wrychoice..thanks for your post. Truly means a lot to me. I know I'm right in my decision and I'm very sorry to hear about how your SKs are.

One thing I do believe is the mantra "love me, love my children" is the for the birds. I don't feel one bit guilty because I don't feel close to his daughter nor do I feel that I'm wrong. Him being my husband does NOT give her instant access to my heart and my love.

Thanks so much for your words. :)

@IMA, I do not believe DH stood up for me. According to him, before I arrived, he actually apologized to his DIL for any misunderstanding, that it was not our intent to disrupt their routine and she shouldn't have to worry like that because we aren't guests, we're family. He claims her response was she wasn't so angry with us as much as SS, because he didn't tell her our plans and she needs to know these things. My understanding is DH offered another apology for any miscommunication. He said he was trying to smooth things over in hopes she'd let it go, which she did not. He also speculated SS did not talk to her about our plans because SS would not have thought it was a big deal. All of that just annoyed me even more because before I bought my ticket and afterwards, I repeatedly asked DH if he had talked specifically to his son to be certain they knew I was coming and would be staying...I was anxious about it due to what had happened before. I believe the conversation between DH & SS took place before I ever boarded my plane (3 hour time difference). I truly wish DH had texted me and told me if I wasn't yet on the plane to turn around and go home, that he would explain later. I'm still angry he didn't tell me about it when I arrived or even the next morning. He let me go into that situation completely unprepared. This is not the first time DH has failed to protect me.

@DOTZ, thanks for the affirmation

@Hope, you're welcome. I know it can be affirming when someone else has similar experiences and shares...you don't feel so isolated.

Here are some perspectives based on your postings:

Your husband was on business trip and wanted to visit his son at your husband's convenience; did he check with them beforehand to see if they were available for your visit?

You were sick like a dog but went ahead any way in spite of they have small kid and infant at home. Did you not worry about giving your germs to the little ones?

Your step DIL was involved in a work project with small kids to take care of; they may not have extra time for your visit. It sounds like she did not even know about your visit. Maybe now in addition to their regular stress, they have sick kids to deal with.

I have trouble with this statement "This is not the first time DH has failed to protect me.", why could you not protect yourself? you should have sufficient life experience to take care of yourself.

I would not have went if I was sick to any ones house.Bad manners to spread the sickness to small children.Just maybe thats what made daugther in law mad about you being in her home was because you where sick? I know I would not of let you in the door to spread germs to my kids. Its works both ways. she and you where bad mannered!
And yes hubby should of let you know. A marriage you should always have each others back!

@azmom & gardenandcats: Perhaps I should have been more specific, I wrote I was sick for 3 days "before" I went out; if I felt as if I was contagious, I would not have gone. By obvious cold, I should have stated I still had a lingering cough caused mostly by sinus drainage, so I misspoke, if you will, when I used the phrase "obvious cold."

@azmom: I assume if SS & DIL did not want DH to be there at a time that was convenient for DH due to his work trip, they could have told him it was not a good time for him to visit. He would have accepted that. DH's DIL works from home; SS works at night and present during the day to care for his children. When I came down that morning, SS was feeding the infant son; DH was playing with his granddaughter. With respect to who knew what when, I assumed DH had conducted a dialogue with his son; I further assumed SS had a similar dialogue with his wife. I made inquiries prior to purchasing and using a ticket to verify that every thing was copasetic (sp?)...I had no information available to me that indicated in any way there were problems with the plan.

I have been thinking about this for 2 to 3 weeks now, trying to emotionally process it all and, I agree with you azmom, I should have enough life experience to protect myself. Like the old saying goes, "When you assume, you make an ass of u and me." I "assumed" a lot and, in essence, screwed myself over. I do not intend to make that mistake again a third time.

Thank you both for your feedback and perspective.

Az and Garden, Hypotheticly, if you hadnt seen your beloved mom in say a year or so , and she had a slight cold and a non refundable airline ticket and a job to get back to, would you make her cancel her plans to visit you,and wait a year to see you again? And make her stay in a hotel as to not disturb babys routine? I think Wry has very valid complaints. If she is husbands wife, albeit not blood family, but family none the less, SS and DIL obviously have an ax to grind and Wry is toatlly within her rights to be hurt, angry. I would be , and that would be my last visit. Sounds like there was miscommunication, but DIL and SS could have been a tad more gracious after Wry took a flight to see them....As for Wrys DH, he sounds like a typical I hate confrontation husband , which was detrimental to this whole fiasco.

Dotz I agree I would be very hurt and I would not attempt to visit them again.

"A marriage you should always have each others back!"

Perhaps wry's DH never taught this to his son... because he doesn't practice it himself. The whole situation sounds to me as if the wife felt put upon because her husband didn't tell her everything. Wry felt uncomfortable because her DH didn't tell her everything. There may have even been some poor communication between father/son. Whatever! It is still utterly rude to treat a guest... not just a guest, family... the way that wry was treated. To not even get up as they are leaving? So what, she is busy on a project... it takes five minutes to walk someone outside & utter a goodbye, have a nice trip, thanks for coming. I cannot stand my MIL and she goes out of her way to push my buttons but when she shows up at my dad's house for a party I am hosting (usually not invited but SD told her we are having a party so she shows up)... I am gracious. I might take Tylenol, grit my teeth secretly or rant about it on this forum... but for the sake of my DH, it's his parents & I am not going to be rude to them, even if they are rude to me. The best part is when they are leaving.. I am more than happy to walk them to the door, hug & tell them to drive safely. And I think the same rules apply here. That is dad's wife, someone he cares deeply for and they should have some respect for that... common decency/courtesy is in order. There is no excuse for being rude, uninviting & dismissive. Ignoring someone as they are leaving... it's not like they were put upon for days or weeks... they woke up & exited stage left... not lingering around like some annoying house guests that won't leave.

I guess I'm wondering why Wry wanted to actually try this 'family reunion' thing a 3rd time. A couple of years ago DH did pick up the phone and tell her not to come. Reading the two year old thread sounds like it was pretty clear the SS and SDIL were not all that much into playing host. Now we also hear of a trip 4 years ago where both (SS/SDIL) were rude and unwelcoming.

After one failed attempt and one cancelled attempt, I guess I have to wonder why Wry keeping putting herself into this position.

I guess my thoughts are, Wry, next time don't even consider going...the trip to SS's will either turn out badly (as the last trip) or will be cancelled (as the trip before that). When your vacation time rolls around, Dh can either go somewhere fun and relaxing with you or take a girlfriend with you.

If he wants to fly out and visit with SS again, wish him a good trip and go about your daily routine (or your own planned vacation).

Well it's very gracious of you to play hostess in your home when they visit your direction, I'd leave it at that. If they come to your home, make the best of it, but accept that the 'welcome' does not go both ways. Don't keep putting yourself into the situation to be kicked.

For whatever reason SS/SDIL find it perfectly fine to take advantage of your gracious hosting but choice not to be host/hostess in return. Perhaps as we live in a world full of ways to communicate other than physically face to face, DH could talk to SS about using skype for example, to allow Dh (and you) to share in regular 'chats' and keep up with the grandkids.

I don't think you/Dh are going to get SS/SDIL to change (it's been three attempts now to have an enjoyable visit out their way) . Perhaps it time to just make it clear to Dh they are welcome in your home, you are interested in the grandchild and would like to find a way to be a part of the younger children's life, but as far as you going west again, isn't going to happen. Dh needs to accept it is what it is and stop trying to force something on SS/SDIL that they are not willing to give.

Yes, I find it extremely rude of SS/SDIL to behave so poorly in their own home, yet expect open arms when they come your direction to visit. I guess my thought is, if they find it so distasteful to be in your presence out west, they should not be taking advantage of you when they come your way. I'm surprised they don't just stay in a hotel.

What can I say, justmetoo? Hope springs eternal? The faith tradition in which I was raised requires me to forgive? The more pathological explanation is I grew up in an alcoholic household and sometimes the tendency to make "co-dependent" choices rears its ugly head. As I wrote in an earlier post, I don't intend to repeat this error yet again. If I am tempted in the future to "give it one more try," I will be sure to visit this site and have everyone remind me of this episode and previous experiences!

I can understand why wry tried again..because I tried a few times to really understand my SD and her actions. All to no avail. So that's why I've come to this point of just cutting her off.

I love my husband dearly..he means the world to me. And I would do anything, but I will not eat crow so he can feel like we're one big happy family..because with his daughter I am not. Happy, that is. I was treated so horrible by her that I know not how to trust her for any reason.

To be honest...the things she said to me in texts when she got caught stealing here..let's just say if I for one second thought my wonderful husband had said those things - we'd be divorced today over it. They were not to be taken mildly nor will I ever do that. She purposely set out to try to cast some serious doubts in my head as to how she felt my husband did not care at all about me in the slightest - and had spent MANY days/hours telling her so. How he felt trapped with me and I had ruined him as a man...and he was only with me because he didn't want to be alone. That I was the worst mistake he had ever made and maybe one day I might just stop breathing...? How my grown daughter and I were 'morons' and that my husband found my daughter to be worthless and a pain in the butt. I treat him like total *&^# and his entire family hates my guts for ruining him. She hoped I was proud that I took such a good man and turned him into garbage waste.

NOW..I ask you all..and please tell me seriously...I do respect every answer I get here. And I appreciate it beyond belief...

In order for me to believe my husband - and I do - I have to also believe his daughter is demented and psychotic to try to create such damage in my marriage. How else am I to feel?

What he is NOT getting is after all this from her, how do you just kiss and make up and not remember her hatred? She tried to come at me a couple months after this - with her fake BS - "Oh I just love you so much...!!" and the only thing I wanted to do was knock her teeth down her throat.

THAT is what he sees...he sees his fake daughter act like she's a victim of circumstance..her mother is so awful..yada yada yada. She's old enough..married with a child..to know better. Bulls&&t. Seriously.

And this isn't just due to her actions in stealing and being caught then verbally attacking me for it..over the past 2 years she has broke her neck talking of her father..how horrible he can be and trying to convince me is a continual cheater. She's tried to darken my name within his family but they have told me of the horror stories she tells them...and they are whoppers..let me just say. WHOPPERS.

I'm just done with the fool. Again..if my husband wants this in his life, he can have it. I refuse to be crapped on then learn how to forgive her 50,000 ways like he does. No way in hell will I live like that.

Thoughts?

I never understood how some children actually think the new partner is going to believe that Dad came to her and poured out his most inner feelings about his new partner.

Just makes no sense to me. Seriously, how many men run to their kid (adult or not) and tell them all their little 'secrets' about their love life or all about how they 'hate' their new partner. It just does not happen. No man uses his child (adult to not) to spill their bed pillow gossip with.

But I can understand how the 'game' plays tricks on the new partners mind. And I can understand how after experiencing such vicious treatment from your partner's children that one would not be in a hurry to open up their hearts, kiss and make-up and let bygones be bygones.

Some people do 'grow-up', change, actually feel bad about their past behavior blah blah. But it does not happen over night and the offender can't expect the foul behavior to be instantly forgotten. I think it's one think to 'forgive' and perhaps try again, but it is unrealistic to think the hurtful behavior will ever be forgotten. Learning to trust someone who has made mistakes/behaved poorly takes time. If they are truly trying to make amends and actually genuinely are sorry, that is one thing. But nobody goes from nasty to 'oh, I love you!' without growing enough to be responsible and realize their actions have caused serious hurt and damage and if there is any chance of being 'forgiven' that it won't come instantly or easily.

I also don't think someone who repeatedly shows the ill behavior and/or readily slips back into the old behavior has grown into a place their attempt at occassionally playing nice is proof evident that the offender is truly sorry and is serious about change.

Hi Hope, Thoughts? I think you and Wry and me and others with adult steps can cut them out of our lives knowing we ve tried all we can to be reasonable, to get along, to see that they mean the world to our husbands, just not to us. That our DH s are free to pursue a relationship with them, as long as they dont try to guilt us into going along for the ride to crazy world. My wish is for a good nights sleep without rolling around in my mind what I could have possibly done to make SS hate me.To stop worrying about the poison SS and Ex have spread to DH s family to make them dislike me.To be able to hold my head up when I meet someone that DH knows , and I ve never met, that has been told negative things about me by SS, I see it in their faces, and can see it in the whispers behind my back. Hope, I dont know, your Skids have done it to your face, mine is all to other people, never has SS confronted me directly. I think, no scratch that I KNOW DH would be furious if anything was said to my face, or by text..I think you have to decide if your marriage is worth your DH allowing them to treat you shabbily...Personally, I dont care if DH has a relationship with them, just dont drag me into it....

justmetoo..well said.

Little insight to the SD? In the time I have known her..which is over 3 years now..she has had a brain tumor, a bit part in the Twilight movie, accepted into many colleges without a high school diploma or transcript..never graduated in other words, suffered a pelvic bone complete breakage due to childbirth yet was driving and walking around a week after delivery in no cast of any sort...I could go on and on but I think you get the jist.

All made up dramas and none were a bit true. All to gain attention. Such as the attention she got when she stole from our home.

A huge liar. All she consists of.

And wants me to believe she has changed. Okay. And I believe that Charles Manson is a saint.

My forgiveness will not come easy nor any time soon. I cannot and will not allow such BS in my life again.

My husband acts like she's such a goodhearted person underneath all this...okay..whatever.

If she was..she never would have been this way towards her father's wife, whom she claims she loves (meaning her father).

Respect is a HUGE factor in any relationship. Don't disrespect the very person your father loves and intends on spending the rest of his life with because if you intend to spend your days with him as well...you're going to have a heck of a time with a stepmother that can't stand the sight of you nor will allow you in her home due to your actions.

Just saying. :)

His words are "She's my family and I love her"...so be it. She IS his family and she deserves the right to be loved by her father. But I also deserve the right to be treated with respect. And if she can't do it, so long. If he wants to see her daily - do it without me. Call her daily - don't expect me to utter a word to her. My phone has her blocked and she'll stay blocked. She can't contact me by email, Facebook..nothing. I wish to know nothing about her nor do I want her to know anything about me.

Thing is, there is a family get together next week and she will be there. I can see my hubby wanting us to get along. She might get an 'hello' from me...that's it. If he expects more, he's gonna be hearing from me and I won't be silent about it. He knows how I feel and I will not be pushed to like the s^%t stirrer.

She's dug her grave...damage is done and nothing is gonna change it. :)

I totally believe some parents confide EVERYTHING to their children.Not My DH but his EX sure did/does?I ve heard it called adult spousal status on another website, dont know where the term came from...When I was just casually dating DH, no clue as to where it was going, now SS said in front of me "Mom says she s( Me) going to take all our money and not let us come to your funeral"...Geez, DH was a healthy guy in his 40 s then...Bit much to share with your kid, to me!!!!!

This really hits home for me because, while my SD is only 12 & everyone says "oh, she's just a kid!", BUT when she was 5, she walked up to me and quietly said "Deanna was kissiing my daddy!" with a tone of "nanny nanny nanny!" & waited for me to respond. I told her, "that's nice." because I knew he had dated Deanna & that it hadn't worked out... Deanna was not interested in him but they had remained friends long before I was in the picture. When I told him what SD said, he said that Deanna's car had broken down (which he had told me the day it happened) and he went to help start her car. She had given him a hug & kiss on the cheek to say thanks. I completely believe my DH that was all it was. SD was trying to start something? She was only 5. I tried winning her over with going out to do fun kid things... she would grab DH's hand and shoot me dirty looks. I tried taking her shopping, just the two of us... she picked out a nice pair of suede shoes she JUST LOVED! They were more than I would normally spend but she wanted them so bad so I bought them. She wore them to her mom's house the next day & came back with them ruined two days later. She said she rode her skateboard on her tummy and used her feet to stop so the entire top of the shoe was ruined. She has manipulated me so many times... crying together & telling me she loves me & wants to get along... wants to call me mom... etc. but she cries to her mom, her dad, her grandparents, her teachers, anyone that will listen about how horrible I am... gets everyone mad at me to the point that my husband's family is not talking to me. I am to the point with her at 12 years old that I can not trust her to try & have a relationship with her. I hope JMT is right that people 'grow up' and change, but I don't see that happening for a very long time if ever.

Oh I can so relate. I wont get into my story there are plenty of old posts here-years of them you can read if your bored sometime. But suffice it to say I detached from my adult SS situation that had become beyond intolerable.

The last few years I made major changes. Still married but now have my own home, DH lives with me. And now it seems my SS that I had the issues with has had a good job for a few years,finally got his own home and moved out of DH's, met a nice girl and is planning on getting married soon. They have made much effort to bring me back into the family fold the past 6 months or so at her encouragement I'm sure. I am just not interested.

I prefer to stick to birthdays, holidays etc. And DH can see them whenever he wishes. It works for me like this and my wellbeing and happiness is just as important as anyone elses. I have my my own son to care for and he is most important to me and two other SS's that I have really good friendships with.

I'm just not going there again, ever. I mean I'm happy he's gotten it together and wish him well. I think his GF is a sweetie I really do. But I have no desire to have any sort of step-parent or friendship relationship there. I don't care anymore. I'm done, I'm free of it and life is good and peaceful now. Sometimes detachment IS the healthiest thing in these situations.

Wry & hopeful, I totally get you both.
((Hugs))
~Cat