neutral wire is hot, How to track down the problem area?
olympia_gardener
11 years ago
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Ron Natalie
11 years agoRelated Discussions
Need help tracking down high energy use
Comments (15)I was trying to gauge the cost(for natural gas) when my furnace has run(consumed gas) for an hour's time. I did it two ways. First I just took the BTU input rating of the furnace and did the calculations from there. Then someone pointed out that the BTU input rating may not be an actual value. So secondly I needed to determine the amount of gas my furnace is actually consuming per hour. Here are the particlars: 1. I have Goodman model GMPN100-4 furnace. (natural gas, single stage, pilotless and an input rating of 100,000 BTU per Hour) FIRST WAY USING BTU INPUT RATING: 1.One cubic foot of natural gas has about 1,030 BTU. 2.Divide the furnace input rating(in my case 100,000) by 1030 to get the number of cubic feet of gas the furnace will use in one hour. So 100,000(BTU) divided by 1030(BTU per Cubic Foot) is about 97 Cub Feet. 3.My supplier's bill is based on units of one hundred cubic feet(CCF) so I divide 97 cubic feet by 100 to determine how many CCF the furnace will burn per hour. This turns out to be 0.97 CCF 4.My supplier charges $.745 per CCF so it costs me 0.97 times $.745 = $.72 per hour for natural gas for my furnace to run. SECOND WAY BY DETERMINING ACTUAL GAS CONSUMPTION: As stated above someone pointed out that the BTU input rating may not be an actual value. So I wanted to determine how much gas the furnace was consuming per hour. My gas meter has a 2 cubic foot dial. I set a video cam in front of the gas meter in the morning knowing the furnace would be on for at least 20 minutes to bring the house up to temperature from the night's setback. The furnace did run for about 20 minutes but I stopped my readings at 10 minutes. Here are some findings: In 5 minutes the furnace consumed 7.6 cubic feet of gas. In 10 minutes the furnace consumed 15.2 cubic feet of gas. So 15.2 cubic feet of gas in 10 minutes extrapolated out to 60 minutes would be 91.2 cubic feet gas per hour or 0.912 CCF/hr. At $.745 per CCF the cost is about $.68 per hour. From the input rating data (100,000 BTU/hr) I calcualted .97 CCF/hr. So the actual gas consumption was a little bit less that the input rating. Now some Notes: 1. My gas bill is broken down to a charge for gas consumption, a customer service charge of like $21 a month and of course the tax on the consumption charge. So it's pretty straightforward how much the gas costs per hundred cubic feet. This month gas was $.745 per CCF. 2. No other gas consuming appliances(oven, stovetop or hot water heater) were firing at the time of testing. 3. I understand that outside temp, thermostat setting and how well my home is insulated are factors as to HOW OFTEN the furnace will run. That wasn't my concern. I only wanted to know how much gas was consumed when the furnace ran for an hour. How that hour was achieved was not important. It could of been 60 continuous minutes or six 10-minutes cycles. In my case I took a 10 minute run cycle and multiplied that amount of gas usage by 6. I have since I've hooked up the following 24V hour meter to the gas valve: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/REDINGTON-Hour-Meter-2PPV9?Pid=search The meter progresses in tenths of an hour increments anytime the gas valve is open. I can tell how long the furnace runs each day, month or season. This helps with filter changes also. I've found that about every 125 hours the filter is dirty enough to be replaced. I appreciate the comments....See Moreshared neutral a problem?
Comments (4)Hi, I am *NOT* an electrician so what I say may be complete garbage and wrong! 1) I think circuits for a Dryer are usually "Stand alone". So drawing power off the circuit to the bathroom seems a little weird. I would not be so anxious about the neutral of "Romex 1" because a dryer would put hopefully a small current on that neutral. The Dryer is on a two-phase "Edison" or "Shared Neutral" Circuit. Most, if not all the current will flow via Romex #1 (Red and Black). Only the differential current (small) would flow into the White Neutral Romex #1. I would be more concerned about overloading the Romex #1 black wire. A Dryer tends to draw alot of power and you are feeding that reptacle as well. My way of fixing it would be to disconnect Romex 2 from Romex 1. Your dryer circuit is now the only thing on Romex #1 and is controlled by breaker #10 and #8. Put wirenuts on Romex 2 to securely isolate it. Socket in the bathroom should now be feed via the circuit controlled by Breaker #7. Hope this helps. Note this could be all wrong, so if it feels weird, maybe it is time to get an Electrician to check it out and make sure it is all safe. Warmest regards, Mike....See Moreelectrical wiring issues-neutral has voltage?
Comments (6)When you say two receptacles next to each other are you may be referring to a quad receptacle meaning its 4 outlets in the same faceplate and sharing the same box. If you lost power in both receptacles then the best place to look is behind the receptacles themselves. Receptacles have 2 screws on each side one for top plug and one for bottom. Their is a link between the two screws that is designed to be removed if someone wanted one plug to be used by a switch, for example a table lamp that was controlled by a light switch. What happens when you have quad receptacles is some electricians will connect the line side (wires from panel) on the top set of screws then use the bottom set of screws to power the other receptacle. The problem is that when your operating a vacuum motor (higher current draw) on the second receptacle then your actually running all that current through that little link. If you have older residential grade receptacles they may' only be rated for 15A. By pulling that high current through that link it causes it to heat up, over time the receptacle becomes brittle and breaks. The right thing to do is to connect the make joints using wirenuts so that each receptacle is coming from the wirenut and not theoigh the other receptacle. Be EXTREMELY careful taking the plate off and checking receptacle. Power may still be on from panel and appear to be off if you read with a meter through the outlet. If the outlet did heat up and break it would still be not just not connected in the back anymore....See MoreExisting 1970 wiring; metal conduit and two circuits sharing neutral
Comments (8)I am not a licensed electrician so take everything I say with a grain of salt but the way it reads to me is that you have a 220 run to your kitchen that was split into 110 runs by replacing your double breaker with two single breakers and splitting the powers to run two different circuits. If that is the case you do have some strange wiring as far as I have ever seen. To confirm this do you have you a 12-3 run out of the panel or two 12-2 lines and therefore have one neutral left unattached. I suspect that it is a 12-3 line. If that is the case then the electrician was being cheap and lazy as he is running one instead of two and then probably charging for two lines which would be illegal on top of unethical. At least I have never heard of a code allowing this. Your biggest issue in having two hots and one neutral is load balancing if I remember my electrical courses correctly. It has been ten years since I had them in college so my memory is pretty hazy as it isn't my day job so I won't speculate to much further but I did find this. "A balanced load in an electrical panel means that the current flowing through one leg is equal to the amount of current flowing through the other "hot" leg. The closer these numbers are, the more balanced the load. When the amperage is split up equally, the neutral current is canceled out. But when the current is placed all on one leg, the neutral must carry the entire load." So essentially by doing what they did your panel is unbalanced and you are forcing more current down you neutral lag therefore you neutral leg may potentially be undersized for the current it is carrying....See Morellaatt22
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11 years agoRon Natalie
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