Meeting the ex won't solve anything. Rest assured that she wouldn't be won over by your affection for her husband of 22 years nor will she be wowed by your sweetness and light. I'm not being sarcastic, just realistic. Meeting her would only fan the flames. You say he's only been "separated" for 2 1/2 years. That's not a long time -- is he divorced yet? If not, perhaps his ex harbors hopes that they will reunite and sees you as an obstacle.

Either way, you cannot change the way she behaves, but you can control the way you behave. Don't push yourself on the kids ... as you know they will resent you for it later if you do. You have only been dating their Dad for 1 year -- their parents were married for 22. Don't try to force a relationship because YOU wish to get to know them better. Take it slow and easy. If you (and your boyfriend) don't push things -- and refrain from badmouthing his ex -- these boys will likely see the truth all by themselves. Don't ever put them in the middle.

If you two are truly serious, and he IS officially divorced, he could have a heart-to-heart talk with the boys. They are adults, after all. He can explain to them what your role is in his life, that it in no way threatens his relationship with them -- or their relationship with their mother. You get the idea.

If you proceed with caution and don't try to force yourself on them or his ex, you'll make it a lot easier on yourself. Just being an good and honest person, truly in love, doesn't mean that his family will embrace you with open arms.

I don't mean to be a downer -- but as you know you've taken on a big, tough job. It's not impossible, but it's hard. Don't force it.

Thank you for your response, I really appreciate the advice.

To answer your question, no he isn't officially divorced yet. There have been many legal battles (a whole other story) that have delayed the legal separation agreement they started almost two years ago. He will be filing for divorce in the new year, which she is aware of. You are right about his ex though, she has continued to act as though he was just having some fun but would be back once he came to his senses. She hadn't come to terms with the fact that their marriage was over, despite the fact that it had been "over" long before he actually left, a fact they had discussed many times. He has repeatedly told her over the past 2 1/2 years that it is over and has urged her to get on with her life. Even now that they are legally separated, will be filing for divorce, and he is in another relationship, her actions don't lead me to believe that she is convinced yet. They were married a very long time and she really wants her family back in tact, no matter how bad it had gotten, and it had gotten bad. She tried to choke him in front of his now 20 year old son during an argument just before he left. His son had to pull her off of him, a scene he will never, ever forget. It was that incident and what their fighting was doing to his sons that finally prompted him to move out.

Thanks for the advice about meeting her, I think you are right. A little nieve on my part to think that would help anything. I was just trying to put myself in her place and think what I would want if I were her. She is constantly asking questions about me and I thought that meeting me would resolve her curiosity and make her stop grillng the boys and everyone else who has met me. I also thought that if I had children and they were spending time with my ex-husband and his girlfriend, I would want to meet her and know the person he is bringing into the children's life. Maybe because I am not a mother myself, I am really not grasping what this is like for her.

About forcing a relationship with his sons, that is not what I intend to do at all. It has been three months since he introduced me to them and there have been only three fairly brief, casual occasions during that time where I have been around them. I am taking this very slowly and very cautiously. I have had two step mothers myself and I know first hand what it is like to be them. I do want to get to know them, but believe me, that will happen slowly, over a great deal of time, not overnight.

The biggest issue for the boys right now has been the fighting between their parents and the way she speaks to and about thier dad in front of them. I know nobody can control her actions but I have had to be brutally honest with him about the way I have observed him communicating wtih her and getting him to own up to the role he has played in how badly thier relationship as parents has deteriorated. There were alot of things he didn't realize he was doing and he knows there are changes he needs to make as well so that things can improve.

I know I have taken on a really tough job, and although I am feeling overwhelmed right now, I feel like it will all be worth it in the end. He is a wonderful man and a really caring and involved dad who is very close to his sons. I don't know his sons at all really yet but from the few occasions I have met them and from the "endless" stories their dad tells, they seem to be fun, kind, respectful, easygoing teenagers, and well worth the wait to get to know.

InOverMyHead -
Nothing short of your dropping dead (in a painful manner) and his crawling back to her begging for forgiveness will satisfy her.

As that is unlikely, ignore her to the best of your ability. Her attacks on you are not "personal" ... she would react to any female who he was with in the same way.

Don't let her drag you to her level - no mattre how outrageous she gets, just view her as a large 3-year old.

Yeah, what Lazygardens said!

Inovermyhead, at the risk of sounding flip ... I have to ask ... just why HASN'T he filed for divorce yet? And what could delay a legal separation, as long as one party wants one? In the state of my divorce, you were considered legally separated if you simply did not reside together as man and wife for six months. After that period, either party could then file for divorce. If his ex was prone to violence, I'd say the odds were in his favor. Seems strange to me that he has drawn out this process for such a long time. And why is he waiting until the new year to file for divorce?

If I were you, I'd ask myself some questions seriously. Is he doing anything to encourage her? Does he, deep down, still have hopes of reconciliation himself? Does he feel guilty over breaking up the family? Maybe he hasn't yet healed from the trauma of being married to her. I don't know ... and I admit I don't know him or his situation. But the divorce delay would send up some red flags for me!

The open exchange of venom between them would also send up red flags. Neither is thinking of their boys and what is best for them. They are operating solely on their hate for each other. And that being the case, you run the risk of having his kids resent you for being in the middle, which is likely where you are in their eyes.

And just wait .. once divorce proceedings actually begin you're in for another wild ride. Do you, for a minute, think she will not put up a nasty fight? Of course she will, and she will do everything in her power to turn those kids against you!

I'm not saying that it can't or won't work between you. I'm just saying that I see a caution light for you. And I'd question the delays big time. And just remember that this woman will always be in your life, trying to make you miserble. Are you ready for that? Think of it ... graduations, birthdays, holidays, weddings, grandkids. She will not go away just because of a divorce.

Again, I'm so sorry if I seem to be a wet blanket. I'm just getting the feeling that you are not seeing the whole picture clearly, nor are you thinking of what a future with this man would look like. I could be way off, I hope I am.

Lazygardens, I'm sure you're not far from the truth! I have to admit I have thought many times how much easier this situation could be if he were a widow :-)

Mom 2 4, regarding the divorce and length of time it has taken for the legal separation, this can be summed up in one word - finances. In Canada, you must wait one year from the date of separation to file for divorce and many couples, especially with children, considerable assets, and where there are issues of spousal support, go the route of a legal separation agreement to deal with these issues. Once the year has passed, this document can be filed with the application for the divorce and becomes the divorce agreement. These issues can also be brought before a judge, prior to a divorce and orders made with respect to child support, spousal support, the matrimonial home and the division of assets. Instead of taking their issues before a judge, they decided that they could work this out between themselves and their respective lawyers and have an agreement drawn up that would be satisfactory to both. I won't go into all of the issues that turned all of that into a nightmare, but after it became clear they could not work things out between themselves, they tried a mediator, which cost a fair bit of money and got little resolved. At that point, he now sees that he should have pursued the court option but at the time, he was already under a mountain of legal bills. Theirs was a very complicated situation financially that could have dragged on even longer in the courts. In the end, he gave in and walked away with very little. Maybe that was a mistake, and maybe it was fueled in many ways by guilt but it's what he felt he needed to do at the time and a decision he has to live with. The timing for filing for the divorce is purely financial since he will have to absorb the entire cost if he is the one filing. This may sound like a lame excuse but he is just now finishing paying all of the legal bills for the separation agreement.

I think you are right in suggesting that in many ways, he has done things to encourage her behaviour. He is in no way the innocent either when it comes to his behaviour toward her and he has come to realize that the hard way. I do believe he has a lot of guilt over the break up of the family but there is no interest on his part in reconciling with her. He really just wants to try to make their relationship better so that his sons don't suffer the consequences any more.

I know she will never go away and I have no doubt she will try her best to turns his sons against me. There is nothing I can do about that. I can only hope that they will form their own opinion based on my actions and my character.

As for not seeing the big picture, you're wrong. I know more about the big picture than I care to at times. I did a lot of soul searching before I decided to make the step and meet his children. I knew then everything that had gone on and decided I was strong enough to handle it because I think he is worth it. I appreciate your concern and the warnings but I really do want to make this work. I posted on this site because I really need some good advice on how to proceed in slowly building a relationship with his children and some guidance so that I don't make mistakes with them that will later prove fatal. I don't want them to suffer the wrath of their mother, simply because I exist and I honestly don't know what I can do or what he can do to make that situation better.

I know from reading many of the posts on this site that there are some very sad situations out there but also some rewarding successes. As a step child myself, I have experienced both and maybe that's where all my hope comes from. It's funny, but I see so much of myself in some of the teenage SD stories. I was the SD from hell for a couple of years! My step mother and father are still married 16 years later and they have a good laugh at my expense sometimes over some of my antics. I really don't know how my step mother hung in there but she did and she loved me and was there for me no matter what a little B**** I was. I have seen many posts where people have hoped that one day their step children will appreciate what they did for them and I can promise you that at least some of them will.

Hello again,

I had to check this afternoon to see if you had posted -- and I'm glad you did. And I'm also glad that you have a good grasp of what's going on. Whew! I imagine that divorces in Canada are much different than in the US. And since you were also the stepchild from HE** (smiles), you have a good understanding of how they must feel.

All things considered --- you are on the right path. Start slowly with them. Get to know them a little during each meeting. You are right that they will come to their own conclusions eventually, though with a mother like theirs it might take longer. Your boyfriend might ask them in advance if it's OK with them if you attend functions with them, be it ball games or something else. This way he's showing them that their feelings DO count, and puts the kebosh on any objections from their mother.

Best of luck to you! Yes, stepfamilies CAN work. I am proof of that. It's lots of hard work, and sometimes you just feel like giving up, but it can have a happy ending.

mom 2 4,

I have read alot of your posts about your relationship with your SD and the issues with BM. I have a great deal of respect for you and the others on this board that have made such a strong committment to their step children. I know first hand that strong parental bonds do not come solely from biology, rather, from the day to day love, committment, stability, encouragement and guidance you provide.

I do think that being a step child has given me some understanding of how they are feeling and has definately made me think of them first in every decision I have made with regards to my relationship with their father and my interactions with them. It also gives me an understanding of how even the most innocent of mistakes can make a huge difference, especially when the child is looking for an excuse not to like you (Boy did I use that one - my poor step mother walked on eggshells! I suddenly have the urge to call her and apologize for the millionth time).

I will continue the occasional interaction with his sons slowly. He has always made sure to ask them first before including me in any activity, which was something I insisted on from the beginning. Neither of them so far has seemed at all hesitant when he has asked them and in fact, a month ago his 20 year old son invited US for dinner with him and his girlfriend which made me feel very honoured.

When I look at my username, InOverMyHead, I cringe. I was feeling so overwhelmed that day after learning of the grief the boys' mother has been causing them because of me and learning of her violent reaction to me coming to her 15 year old son's game (something he was excited about since I play hockey too and we are both HUGE fans). I have spent alot of time the past few days listening to my boyfriend as he develops a strategy for dealing with her in the future in a calm, rational manner with his sons' needs as the focus. He wrote her a very heartfelt letter last night about what their fighting is doing to their sons and talking about how up until the past two years, they had done a really good job of raising two wonderful young men. He told her that he wants to work on doing a good job again and try to resolve the challenges of doing that as separated parents. He has invited her to meet to talk all of this over in person so we will see what happens. I can't say I'm that hopeful that she will embrace any of this with open arms but at least it's a start and at least they will have one parent committed to putting them first instead of none. I have thought of changing my name but instead, I think I'll use it as a measurement in the future to gage how far I've come.

As I have said before, I want this to work and I am willing to put in all the committment and effort it takes to be successful at it. Thank you for the concern and encouragement and keep doing a great job with your SD, it can be a very special relationship.

Thanks for the kind words! They are much appreciated, for I think we have all been "in over our heads" from time to time. Stepfamily life can be trying ... oh yes it can! Sometimes just coming here and venting can make a big diffence .. just saying the words and getting them out in the open can clear away some of the tension -- especially in a forum where people know what you're going through.

I think you're being a stepchild will serve you well ... and I laughed when I read that you wanted to call your stepmom and apologize again! I'm sure she'd appreciate it. I live for the day when my oldest admits to my husband that she's been a butt from time to time over the years! But she has -- and so has he.

So, welcome to the club. And hang on for the ride of your life! But since you know about me you also know that it can work ... with much effort and love. As I was typing this my SD just came and asked me a question about her homework... yep, it can work!

You seem to have a good idea of what you are up against - just as long as you know that it will NEVER end as long as there are children. Whether the children are 2 or 20 or 50 ... as long as the Mother carries that dark evil in her heart - there will be friction. Its not for the faint of heart. My best friend has recently married a man with three adult children ranging in age from 24 to 30. She had dated him from the time the youngest was 18 and patiently waited thinking that once the kids were older, it would ease up. The only way it was able to end was when her husband gave up all contact with his kids. The years before were full of problems some subtle, some overt, some imagined born of paranoia. The ex was a master of manipulation and cunning - working on the minds of her children, people in the community even her ex husband's family to the point where my friend was meant to feel like she was the one that was the problem. They are now married, moved far away and started a new life. You would think that would be the end of it - but no! The only thing is ... even though the husband decided to break it off with his kids, he harbors resentment against my friend that comes out when they have arguments. His son recently married and he wasn't invited of course and that sparked a long period of sorrow and self recrimination for chosing a woman over his children. So ... will it ever end? Who knows. What I do know is that there are some really evil,screwed up, psychotic people out there and once you cross their path you had better be very strong and never think that it will ever be over or you can get out of the relationship now and cut the losses. I have read some posts here from some of the strongest most capable women that have endured and continue to endure some abominable situations that I could never dream to experience in my worst nightmares and I admire them to no end and have more than once said a prayer for them after reading a post. Not everyone has that strength. That's why 2nd marriages are so much more likely to fail than first marriages.

mom 2 4,

I've been busy moving into my new house over the past week and haven't been able to post. I'm glad you had a good laugh over my apologies to my step mother. She gets a good chuckle over it sometimes too. She's been a good support to me in this but is understandably worried considering what she went through with me. The biggest differences between my situation and hers is that my father had full custody of me and my BM has been out of my life since I was six.

I'm certain I will have many occasions in the future where it will be necessary to vent. I'm so appreciative of the opportunity to spill it all out and benefit from the considerable wisdom and experience on this board. Being new to this end of step family life, I may not have much advice to contribute but I'll certainly chime in with my two cents from time to time from the point of view of a step child (twice over).

By the way...your oldest will come around. I think the true realization and appreciation starts when you begin to face life's challenges yourself. I can't recall how old your oldest is but teenage girls tend to be a tad self centred and self absorbed, at least I was. My SM and I have talked about this and I told her that I recall that most of my friends faught with their parents and I saw it as just a teenager thing where I had an easy avenue for manipulation. I knew I could get to her easily and I used that but I never really understood just how deeply I was hurting her. I remember her telling me years later that bio-parents know that even when things get heated and things are said, there is a deep, lifelong love that secures that bond between them. She did not have a lifetime to love and bond with me and always worried that every "normal" teenage/parent battle would forever destroy our chances of having a close relationship, something she desperately wanted and was working hard to try to build with me. I remember feeling like such a witch for being so horrible to someone who just wanted to love me. I am fortunate that I was able to talk things through with her and found an understanding, compassionate and forgiving ear. I am very lucky!

Karissa, I am completely heartbroken over your friend's situation. I don't want to be judgemental because certainly, I'm in no position for that, however, the idea of a parent choosing to end his relationship with his children (adults or not) puts a knife through my heart. I can honestly say that I would NEVER allow my boyfriend to walk away from his sons, certainly not because of me. My mother walked out of my life when I was six, and even though his children are adults now, being physically or emotionally abandonned by one of the two people who should love you more than life itself, hurts. I suspect that the resentment that creeps into their arguments, will eventually bring an end to that relationship if they don't address it. If that does happen, this man will have no new wife and no kids....pretty lonely.

In Over my head: You are so right. However, at the time, he just couldn't take it anymore. The kids became so twisted by the venemous Mother that all they did was add to the hurt of the situation. If you could only see his pain!!! It was difficult for bystanders like myself to witness. I think he was going a more than a little crazy under the pressure from his kids and family. All his ex-wife ever wanted was for him to be as miserable as can be and man, she sure succeeded. I recently heard Dr. Laura say that evil succeeds because it has no morals, no boundaries and no conscience.

InOverMyHead -
I'm a tad late jumping into this discussion, but I've just now found this forum.

I'm living the life you will be living if you continue the relationship with your boyfriend. First, let me tell a condensed version of how I got where I am now.

DH and I dated in high school, and then married others. Each of us has adult children in their 30s from a first marriage. DH had custody of his two teenage boys when he married a widow with three children of her own. Sounds like the Brady Bunch? Not quite. Two more boys later, they separated (at her request) when their youngest was 6 months old. Their divorce dragged out 2 1/2 years and had been final a year when my mother reintroduced us. They had bought the house across the street from her and after their divorce he had asked her to call him when I came to visit. Not long after that I moved home to care for Mom during a serious illness. At that time their two boys were 7 and 4. DH and I attended the same church and I was introduced to his children there as "an old friend". Since they lived across the street from me, the boys would come visit me from time to time. They had no idea their dadÂs and my relationship was any other than ÂfriendsÂ.

A few months later Ex accepted a job in another city and the family moved. On the weekends they were with their dad, the boys would call to see if I wanted to visit and IÂd drop in for an hour or so. Ex Âblew up whenever the boys told her IÂd come to see them and demanded that DH have no female company when they were with him. He ignored her since there was nothing in their divorce decree stating that he could not introduce his sons to his female Âfriends and we were not subjecting them to anything ÂimmoralÂ. He never so much as kissed me on the cheek when I visited. This went on for the three years that DH and I dated before marrying. We still donÂt understand why, but she despises me and blames me for Âbreaking up their relationship even though she was the one who asked for the divorce and it had been final a year before DH and I started dating. Perhaps she had decided sheÂd make a mistake? He is wonderful.

The woman is crazy, irrational, vindictive, spiteful, and EVIL. DHÂs child support is one third of his income. After we married, she threatened to take me to court to get a third of my paycheck! According to their divorce papers, DH has the right (but not obligation) to see his children Âevery other weekend and alternate holidaysÂ. This works only if it suits Ex. If something comes up that we canÂt have them or canÂt accommodate a change in her schedule, she goes into a rage. Holiday schedules are a joke. We canÂt make weekend plans (with our without the boys) in advance because we never know when theyÂll be here. I wonÂt even go into when we do have to see each other face-to-face. Because it is so stressful, DH usually goes alone to events where sheÂll be present. She will not even talk to DH on the phone. Instead she has the boys relay her messages. TheyÂre in the middle, and itÂs not fair to them.

DH and I have had five years of wonderful marriage and his two boys, now 15 and 12, still love me and I still love them. It's been a joy watching these boys grow into fine young men. Yet, if IÂd known in advance how his ex would disrupt our lives I might have had second thoughts about marrying this man.

Please think long and hard about what you are getting yourself into. They say, "love is blind", but you don't have to be blindsided.