Shims in Marvin Wood Clad Windows

17 years ago

The framers put in some of the windows today. While they seem level, square, and operate fine, the framer insists on waiting and allowing the trim carpenter to shim them. They are currently hanging by the flanges only, and have play in and out, not side to side or up and down.

The framers says in order for the interior trim to fit perfectly all the way around, the trim guy will need to be able to adust the in and out play, put shims in there and nail the jambs to the stud framing through the shims. He says if he puts the shims in now, the trim guy won'at having any adjustment in getting his casing trim perfect.

They appear to be the proper thickness, sticking into the room about 1/2", no wall is perfect, and the sheetrockers slap that stuff up there without worrying about the windows and its possible in some places the sheetrock might stick out too far and closing the gap on the casement trim would be difficult.

The problem with waiting is that the foam insulation contractor is supposed to insulate the space around the window, and of course this is before the sheetrock and before the trim guy shows up. If the space is insulated I don't see how the shims can be put in there.

The other thing is that I didn't see how the trim guy could shim the window because the sheetrock will already be up by the time the trim guy gets here. The framer said just have the sheetrockers stop the sheetrock at the window rough opening - not the window jamb itself, thus leaving the gap to be shimmed exposed, to be covered by the casing trim when the shimming is done.

It seems to me that the shims could be placed now, by using a dummy piece of sheetrock around the perimeter to make sure it fits into the room right. I did some checking with some 7/16" and it seemed pretty much even all the way around. Now I hope like heck it fits right, the jambs are 5 5/16", the wall is 3.5 stud, 7/16" OSB, 3/4" framing on the outside, plus the 1/2" sheetrock to come. It should fit just fine with 1/8" to spare.

The Marvin instructions metion shimming the windows but they don't mention nailing into them. I don't see how the shims would do any good if you don't put a nail through the jamb and shims into the stud frame. But even assuming a nail goes in there, the instructions don't indicate where its safe to put one.

This is a mouthful, but I really want this to be done right. Most people put in vinyl windows around here and the framers don't put many wood windows in, but are in agreement that they will require shimming and they are putting the flashing tape on the outside. Its just a matter of who does it, if nailing is involved, and how the gap is to be insulated.

Also, the Marvin instructions call for a "small amount" of non-expanding foam on the backside of the flange, and then loosely packing fiberglass the rest of the way inward. The foam guy says they always just foam the whole thing with no problems. He says they use low expanding foam that won't...

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (5)

calbay03
17 years ago
Happy Holidays TexasAl!

The part about leaving a gap between sheetrock and window frame for shimming was what happened to us when our contractors installed our windows. The gap was covered with interior trim after everything was in. The exteriror was finished with stucco because the skin of our house is all stucco.

Two windows, close to each other, did require exterior trim and that took a while because of leveling and squaring boh windows and matching the trim thickness precisely to both window frames and the house wall. They took some time on this one and did a perfect job.

They did not let any of the windows "hang" by the flange for long. They did the shimming immediately for each window. Interior rim was put up as they went. Our interior trim is simple knotted pine boards, that may be why it was easier. Yours sound more involved requiring a contractor to take precise measurements.

They did not use foam all around, they stuffed insulation loosely but fully all around. Not sure if using non-expanding foam makes any difference. The loose insulation works fine in cold and hot weather so far.

They used a nail gun :-( to nail through shims but it worked. The nail holes were small and were covered with puddy and stained over. They are not noticeable even close-up unless one knows where and how to look.

The GC brought along the other contractors all at once to do the job. It worked out because we did not have to wait for any of them to come as they pleased.

Hope this helps.
texas_al
Original Author
17 years ago
That is helpful. However the trades are not going to be here together. Once the framers are gone they are pretty much gone,

I checked the level and squareness of the windows today and found everything checks out level and plumb. I checked diagonals and most were within 1/8". There is 49" by 41" awning window that was 69" on one diagonal and 68 3/4" on the other. I don't know if that is off enough to matter. Don't have the crank hardware to check the operation of the casements or the awning yet. I guess they held them with the screens. The flanges are nailed in every nail hole, so would be b%cth to take out.

All the windows are sitting pretty flat on the bottom sill of the rough opening, so there would not seem to be any need for shims there, as the sills were level to begin with. One or two I can see maybe 1/32" of daylight under there, maybe something should be slipped in there? Seems like some staples or dirt os something kept it from going all the way down, but putting shims under one jamb or another was not necessary due to the levelness of the sill.
Related Discussions
Milgard Ultra or Wood Clad vs Marvin Integrity windows
Q
Comments (4)
Well, most houses in the bay area are still well over a million, and we are in that category. I know it sounds like a little amount, but I just keep thinking that I could spend the $4000+ in other ways (put in a central vac system, get the sub zero instead of the other fridge, etc), and get much more for my money. I really need to find an interior white painted wood window, and a white painted fiberglass window, and see if there's a real difference. I was hoping someone would have experienced this before as well. You're probably right, and I just have to jump and make that decision.
...See More
Marvin vs Pella vs __?__ brand alum-clad double-hung windows
Q
Comments (1)
I bought the PElla wood vinyl-clad. I've had these before for at least 6 years, and was satisfied with them. There are only a few cosmetic differences between Pellla's highest series (Architect?) and the next one down (which is also wood vinyl clad), but the cost difference can be substantial. I recently bought some new Pella wood vinyl-clad from Lowes. Lowes carries the next one down from the top, and is cheaper than a regular Pella store. also, if you can get a stock size, that will be cheaper still.
...See More
Marvin Ultimate wood interior/aluminum clad exterior
Q
Comments (6)
Hmm, but do they last? I had not realized that the warranty was rather short. I just looked at the warranty on the Marvin site, and it has different time periods for different things, from 5 to 10 and up to 20 years. However, to pay all that money for a shorter, confusing warranty does not seem to make sense. I don't want to do this again in 10 to 20 years. Hopefully never again. So, I think I'm back to my Sunrise/Vanguard/Restorations questions. Is the Vanguard (http://vanguardwindows.com/doublehung_windows.html) window really better than the standard Sunrise (http://www.sunrisewindows.com/windows/double-hung.aspx)? Where do Restorations fit in? I did just get pricing for the Sunrise: 3 fixed picture windows, 1 casement window, 8 double hung windows, and 1 half round window. Sunrise Windows. Brazilian Pecan interior/Earthtone exterior. Glass is; Ultra U 12 with argon gas. Quote totals include all labor, materials, options, and all clean up. $10934 How does that sound? This company does not intend to replace the brick molding. Is that OK? (The house is 20 years old. From what I've seen, the brick molding looks OK.) My city requires a permit, but some contractors are saying not to bother or I should get it? What do you folks say is the best practice on this?
...See More
Weather Shild of Marvin Clad window?
Q
Comments (1)
I have been trying for over 17 months to get warranty out of the Shield Family of windows--working with the SW sales manager. I would think twice about ever using any of their products again, unless you don't care about warranty and honesty.
...See More
guy_exterior_man
17 years ago
Texas Al, your installers should have at least shimmed the window in place. We always shim up our windows for insulation. I've inserted Marvins web page for installation procedures. Just go there and find the windows you have. This way you'll have the manufacturers installation instructions, which they should have followed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Marvin Installation files
texas_al
Original Author
17 years ago
To update this thread, the trim carpenter came early and shimmed all of the windows, using a guage to pull them in where needed. He actually said they were all fine, without any significant adjustment in or out. Now the foam guy can insulate them, so I guess we are all set.
wendy_swbell_net
13 years ago
"The Marvin instructions metion shimming the windows but they don't mention nailing into them. I don't see how the shims would do any good if you don't put a nail through the jamb and shims into the stud frame. But even assuming a nail goes in there, the instructions don't indicate where its safe to put one."

Has anyone answered this question? Are you supposed to install nails/screws through the sides of the window and shims into the studs?

Shims in Marvin Wood Clad Windows

Comments (5)

calbay03

texas_al
Original Author

Related Discussions

guy_exterior_man

texas_al
Original Author

wendy_swbell_net

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Shims in Marvin Wood Clad Windows

Comments (5)

calbay03

texas_alOriginal Author

Related Discussions

guy_exterior_man

texas_alOriginal Author

wendy_swbell_net

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

texas_al
Original Author

texas_al
Original Author