"Whether or not his divorce was final when he met her doesn't matter. "

It matters a great deal. It is the largest determining factor in the woman's relationship with his children.

Just because I mentioned only one does not mean that I don't know others who reconciled. That is ridiculous.

Hi Kathy,

I think you and your husband have made the best decision according to health and comfort. THis has nothign to do with who was married first, who got divorced first..we do not know the details of your relationship from the beginning and frankly the issue here is of your husband 85 years of age travelling with his health condition. Now obviously there are soem unresolved issues from his adults kids. But they are and were adults when he left their mother. He didn't leave her for you. That is clear.
The issue here is to look at the facts and do not get sidewinded from other bitter people here!
1. He is 85 years old
2. Crummy heart,
3. Has dementia
THis is nooooo condition for travel and his adult kids...who are in their 50's and 60's are old enough to know this so obviously something is up.
EIther way it doesn't matter. You guys have stuck to your wills and are going to tell them to come instead. THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. THIS IS THE LOGICAL THING TO DO BASED ON YOUR HUSBAND CONDITION.
We are all saying the same opinion.
And i would to the same thing for my husband and i would feel the same way if they only invited him up and not me. Especially if i'm the one who has been taking care of him for the last 20 years and to top it off have given money and gifts and encouraged relations with their dad.
My father has a crummy heart too. He died last month and they revived him. Thank God i have soem more time with him. Dont know how long but we all have to focus here on what is important. Peoples lives are important. Your husband health here is important and as human beings that shoudl be respected.
These kids were complete adults when your DH divorced and if they have issues they are holding onto then they should seek counciling and be done with it.
oh yah....my husband is also 15 years my senior and there is nothing wrong with that!

Kathy,
You are doing what is best for your DH and given all his health issues plus the fact that he doesn't want to go-and that is really the important thing here. He is frail and uncomfortable with this type of travel. Good grief, you have nothing to defend or justify to the kids or anyone here.

How you met or the circumstances of have nothing to do with the issue at hand. You sound like a wonderful woman & wife. You are making the best decision based on your DH's wishes and health. The kiddies will come to him and have to deal with it. They are grown ups and must realize the extent of his illness.

Good luck to you and I apologize for any negativity you've experienced here. Not all of us younger 2nd wives are bad-acutally most of us are pretty darn cool!

~Cat

Kathy, I can't believe his children would even think about forcing their 85 year old, ailing father to travel! Talk about selfish! You are doing the right thing!

I doesn't matter if either of them was married or not. They divorced, they married, it doesn't matter. People often stay in an unhappy marriage until something happens to make them fall off the fence they have been straddling. The kids had years to access the way his new wife treats him. Why should she, after years of marriage start mistreating him.

Sovra, I like the way your grandmother thinks. My husband has passed and now I do exactly what I want to do. I will not get myself into stressful, uncomfortable situations.

I'm sorry to be coming to this so late, and fervently wish I'd have warned you NOT to answer TheOtherSide's first question. She is just some demented person stuck in time who is determined to make every woman on earth pay for her shattered dreams. Guilt or innocence has little to do with it, you'll be tried, convicted and burned by her acid tongue. (or run screaming into the nearest church yelling SAAAAANK-CHEW-WARE-EEEE")

I'm here to offer up a suggestion that might make it easier to end this ongoing subject with dh's offspring. Your dh is being harassed. He's stated his position and they are refusing to accept it. In his diminished capacity this is just downright cruel. There is something called the 'broken record' technique, where you state your position in simple terms and regardless of what argument they throw your way, you give that answer and only that answer. Believe me, it works. Is there some simple thing your husband can say and repeat?

"dad, we want you to....."
"No thank you, I prefer not to travel any more."

When they get frustrated and go to you instead, you can reply "your father prefers not to travel any more."

Another suggestion: get any one of those dr's to say that it is not in dh's health interests to travel. Or simply tell the children that the dr's say no more travel.

Good luck. I have so enjoyed your gentle and loving way. Your dh is very blessed to have you.
j

Kathy,

Disregard TOS. That person always contradicts people.

That was wrong of the SKs to only invite their dad. I would be deeply hurt. Your husband should not travel given his age and health concerns. They should come visit him. You are probably right if you suspect they are up to something.

Best wishes and try to put this out of your mind.

Previously on this board I have seen SM's claim that almost everyone here is strongly against infidelity. Apparently that is not the case.

To TOS.......Why don't you keep your mouth shut. It is my understanding that few members here give a rip about what you have to say and would rather not see you on this site. You are incapable of staying on the subject presented and you are mean and judgemental about people and things that you know NOTHING about. What happened in your life is your problem and I don't care nor do I feel sorry for you. I do, however, feel sorry for those who come into contact with you. Get over whatever your problem is and get off of this site. I, for one, will not read, nor respond to you in anyway from now on. I suggest the rest of the members on this site do the same. If we ignore it maybe it will go away.

Kathy,

When I met my husband he was separated but not legally divorce and yes we feel in love too. I had been divorced for many years and we agreed that we had been unhappy for many years and the marriage was over before we actually divorced.....

Here's the funny part his ex was furious that we were dating and tried everything to break us up....which was funny because they were separated and DH had filed for divorce because she had been having an affair for many months and had moved in with the guy??? In some states it takes a long time to get divorce- it took him nearly two years- I met him near the end of that time. It may have not been legal but it was over..

You don't have to apologize for love after 19 years you are his wife, his true love and nothing anyone says can change that.....

These kids can come visit dad at his home or not.. not another word about travelling..

Kathy in Washington:

I agree that your husband should make the decision as to where he will go or not go, and I can see where you feel the way you do. I can also see where his kids feel the way they do, and I encourage you to look at it from their perspective, too. Given the circumstances which occured at the time of your introduction into their life, the reality is they don't necessarily associate you with great things. That might offend you deeply and you might be the greatest person ever to walk this earth, but the reality is that they will likely feel somewhat wary and awkward with you. I don't know how long it has been the case, but if they feel like they are not allowed, REALLY, to have quality time alone with their father of any duration, they will be especially tense and upset with you. Adding to this would be the guilt trip being laid on them that it is wrong or insulting of them to have this need. I hope you can see where a situation like that could exacerbate tension and not lead to increased trust or closeness. The desire to have him come out to see them is clearly a desire to have an extended period of time ---beyond a few hours at a party where there are other people and distractions--- to be alone with him, which they obviously feel like they have not gotten enough of. This is the only understandable ----or acceptable--- explanation as to why they are pushing him to travel to them, "forcing" and old man to undertake the journey.

I agree that the realities of the situation NOW may very well be that he is simply not up to travelling, especially if this is the primary objection he himself raises at this point about not wanting to go. And he shouldn't travel if it causes him real discomfort or his doctors have advised him not to. If the heart of the matter is the kids getting ample one-on-one time with him, and they get this opportunity, then I imagine the question of WHERE this occurs will be much less of an issue.

So with that in mind, I would suggest a compromise, within the parameters that he cannot travel and in the spirit of trying to empathize with where his kids may be coming from and trying to ensure that no one is uncomfortable or denied their needs. I (or preferably your husband, if he is up to it) would say the following to them:

"Kids, you are not wrong to want some extended alone time with your father, especially now that he is in the autumn of his years and the opportunity to do so won't last forever. I wish I or he or his doctors could safely say that the travel will be fine for him and not put undue stress on him so that he could accept your invitation easily and gracefully. But the reality is now that the travel might be too much and we don't want to take that risk. I don't like it, but I can accept your concerns that this may be an excuse or that I am unwilling to relinquish the control that comes with being around him for everything. If it makes you feel better, I would encourage you to discuss his health with his doctor to clear up any confusion or mistrust you might have about the situation. Please come instead here to the house, and I will plan on staying with a friend or relative while you are here, if not for the entire time than for at least half of it. If none of my relatives or friends are available, I will stay in a hotel for several days and share the cost with you. I will leave detailed notes as to what his daily needs are and I will be a phone call away if you have any questions. I want you to know I respect your need for an independent relationship with your father and will do what I can to support it, as long as we can all be assured that his health needs are taken care of."

Well, it seems there is a lot of suspicion going on no matter how you look at it. The senior adult children seem to think that if stepmom isn't there they might get some kind of different perspective on the situation. Maybe dad himself is absolutely terrified of spending time alone with his senior children. If it is all just in good faith why would they care if stepmom is there? Doesn't make any sense to me. Why wait until he is 85 to do this? There were at least 19 other years this could have occurred. Why now?

However having said that, if I were stepmom I would invite them to our home, go away for the duration and hire a nurse to be there full time, to tend to his personal needs. Really if you are going to play the suspicion game, play it all the way. If the senior adult children think SM is exerting pressure on their dear dad, it could well be they plan to exert some pressure. It always amazes me that children think dad is being influenced, controlled and possibly frightened by his wife, but it never occurs to these same children that dad may well be making his own decisions and is actually terrified by his children's anger. Especially when the rage burns hot after so many years. Their actions are devoid of love, care and concern.

But the one thing for sure is he is not healthy enough to travel.

Why haven't you heard anything from BM in two years? Is she ill?

Serenity, that was gently put. But I respectfully disagree that there is anything reasonable in expecting a 62 year old woman to vacate her home to appease adult children: step or natural.

Sorry, this just doesn't sit well. I can see myself in the same situation not so far down the road. I will not be leaving the care of my dh to hired help or anyone else.

Health is a delicate balance particularly for those of advanced age. It's something you get a feel for from years of care-giving your spouse. It is both a labor of love and a demanding burden. (kind of like marriage, right?).

Whatever her step children's suspicions or motives I think the father's health trumps it. I seriously doubt if any one of these adult children would agree to oust their own spouses for the duration of a visit from their father. The whole idea is ludicrous.
j

Vacate the house to accommodate them??? They are not children, they are ADULTS!!!!! 58, 56, and 54 years old!! They need to get over themselves and accept the choice their father made 19 years ago, case closed!

I am sooooooo glad I didn't read this before yesterday! I may have come unglued at someone insinuating that people with a larger than normal age difference can't have true love! How dare someone speak for people they don't even know! That kind of mentality is as bad as any racist or sexist mentality out there and is EXTREMELY discriminatory.

Kathy - not all of us are hateful like that. And I learned the hard way that I don't have to justify myself to anyone in cyberspace. And you don't either. You have loved and cared for your husband for all these years. It's obvious, even to us that read this post, you've proved your true intentions a long time ago. Congratulations for making your marriage work in the face of adversity!

Serenity - you said "the reality is" three times in this message and only once did you state a fact. The actual reality is that 1)these children were adults, well into adulthood, when their parents split and Kathy became involved in their lives and 2)this happened almost 20 years ago. You don't know that they ARE still bitter. If they are, which I feel is highly unlikely, they need to build a bridge and get over it. 20 years is way too long to hold a grudge and their dad is way too old to be dealing with petty crap like this.

My initial view of this is that the kids are trying to do something having to do with finances, estate, power of attorney or something of that nature. I would be willing to bet they think that you are controlling everything and that if they can get dad alone, they can get more of whatever they want. They probably view dad as a push-over. It's kind of the same as when FSD whispers a request for something in FDH's ear when I'm in teh room. She assumes that if she asks for it out loud that I will object. So she whispers it to FDH because she knows her chances of getting what she wants are better with the push-over. I know it hurts your feelings as you have probably been there for them for many years. But money and the inevitability of death bring out the worse in people.

I, for one, don't see how dad flying out to son's house means they will have no spouses around. Where is son's wife going? Maybe you should see where all the spouses are going and hook up with them for the same weekend. LOL!

Jerri-- I don't think the adult kids expect Kathy to vacate her house, hence why they want dad to come visit them elsewhere, which perhaps they perceived (perhaps wrongly) as a viable solution to avoid asking her to do that. Just thought it would be a nice thing to offer as a compromise with respect to everyone's needs within a situation where there are certain limitations, conflicting needs among equally important family members and a stated desire to limit stress surrounding the father. Yes it would be awkward and inconvenient for a few days, yes she would would probably feel irritated and a bit nervous about doing so. But it's something **I personally** would offer to do in the situation, and I mean that. (Of course I wouldn't have the attitude that the kids' need for alone time with their father was seen as an illegitimate request, so it likely wouldn't come to that point anyway.) Such compromises are the stuff that family, or just life, is made of. This is a very different scenario than if the kids were the ones coming out and telling Kathy to get lost, which of course would be aggressively confrontational and disrespectful. However, if their experience has been that none of them has had more than two hours alone with their father since his divorce, they might very well feel controlled, devalued and like they have to assert their right to alone time with more vehemence than they should have to. If this is the case ----and if the attitude undergirding the precious few hours of private time has fundamentally been one of begrudging disapproval--- then they probably perceive it has been more the case that Kathy's expectations have been the more more invalidating and disrespectful. Not that this necessarily means that their perceptions are CORRECT, just their perceptions, which may explain some of their decisions and requests.

As for the father's health, I agree that he should NOT be pushed to travel. But as to his need to have Kathy (and no other substitute) next to him every second of every day I think much depends on the specifics of exactly how dire his health issues are and what exactly is required in his care at this point. "A poor heart" and "some dementia" are vague terms, which can mean anything from high cholesterol and the occasional "senior moment" to I.C.U. hospitalization after a massive heart attack and full-blown Alzheimer's to the point where he is incapable of carrying on a conversation or using the facilities on his own. In either case, additional medical care beyond just Kathy would be required anyway.

The duties Kathy listed for his care are: "driving, phone calls, all social activities, medical, finances, meals, and keeping our life stress free and peaceful". Is there literally no other person in the world who could be trusted and capable of handling these things for him for a few days? Cannot a few instructional notes be written and pill boxes filled and her and the doctors' phone numbers be kept at the ready? I can understand the feeling of not wanting to be away from someone you love for very long, particularly if they are gravely ill. But we're not talking about a month here, or even a week, and we don't know specifics about how terminal or not he actually is. (If he is on death's door, then I would have to say that unfortunately it is too late for ANYONE to have the luxury of private alone time with him and the kids will just have to deal.) Even still, Kathy cannot be awake and next to him 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Well, that may be. However, she has made it clear that she doesn't hover over him endlessly while he visits with them and in fact has mentioned many instances where she has bowed out during their visits. I think she is already plenty considerate enough.

You have an idyllic life or perfect steps if you are so completely sure that there is no ulterior motive for a prolonged 'children only' visit with elderly dad. I doubt Kathy's situation is quite so perfect.

Perhaps 'fornicating bimbo' might be a clue?
j

One thing I don't think has been mentioned. Along with his multiple medical issues Kathy said he has some dementia. People starting with dementia do best in familiar surrounding with familiar people. Taking him out of his comfort area could have bad effects. I believe adult SK should come to visit him and Kathy can give them as much alone time as he is comfortable without vacating. She is a big part of his comfort area. Bringing in a strange nurse, the adult kids, already hard feelings because they have pushed so hard, none of this is good for any of his health issues.

Hi Kathy,

I agree with eandhl's comment about having your husband leave familiar surroundings.

My dad is older than your husband and he has a more advanced dementia. Even when it was in the early stages, he did not want to be far from home for very long.

He was also very concerned if my mom was gone for any length of time - even when someone else was watching him.

So your husband has two comfort zones - you and his home. If he traveled without you, he could become agitated and make the trip unproductive for your stepkids.

I agree that the best solution is to have them come and visit with him.

Athlete

I find it interesting that the man's kids wanting to spend a few days alone time with their own father is being met with a bunch of suspicion about money, etcetera, while their stepmother's reluctance to grant them this time is not. I am not at all accusing Kathy of anything, but admittedly in my eyes this reluctance is the more suspect desire and very often is the hallmark of family situations where the step-parent takes total control of everything. If I was Kathy in this situation, I'd be bending over backwards to make sure no one thought that of me. Not that she should HAVE to, but that it might just be effort worth making to avoid an ugly situation.

They are his children. They do not need to justify their need for time alone with their father. Their need for such is not an offense and shouldn't be a slap to anyone's face except those who don't have any empathy for the fact that they are his kids. (Yes, even if they are adults.) Especially if, as Kathy indictates, "they can't change anything anyway" regarding wills, power of attorney, etc. Even if they had the magic power to influence him to change something like that within a few days, once they are back home Kathy has all the rest of the time they are not present to undo that influence and if she's in charge of everything in that regard likely the power to change back anything that might have been changed or at least raise heavy, daily objection to it. It's highly unlikely that a visit lasting a few days would provide the opportunity to for undue influence, especially if they have no legal authorization to leverage. It's for this reason that the legal criteria for undue influence include fiduciary responsibility for the person and prolonged (as in months, years) and very regular (is in cohabiting or daily or near-daily visitation) contact with them. It didn't sound like Kathy was worried about that, but if she is, I can tell her as an adult child to a step-parent that she shouldn't be worried about this and that in almost every sense she holds a lot more power in that regard. I personally don't think it's fair at all, but the law is very much on the side of spouse in any contest of wills, etc. (Witness Anna Nicole.) When it really gets down to it, the kids have more reason to fear such things from Kathy than vice-versa, but I don't think that's their concern or goal here. If it is, they are not likely to "succeed" with it, at least not for much longer than their visit! Believe it or not, a person's children can desire private time with them for reasons having nothing to do with money.

To be fair, it is also the case that Kathy should not have to justify her concern for her husband. However, the two sets of needs (his kids' needs for alone time with him and Kathy's needs for maximum time with him) are obviously in conflict as regards the few days in question, and Kathy and his kids are equally important, thus some sort of compromise is needed. Neither party SHOULD have to justify anything to the other or SHOULD have to give up something that is important to them... but unfortunately, the conflict is such where somebody will. Ideally, each would have to give up a bit so that the loss isn't all on one party's shoulders. Which is why I suggested what I suggested:

-the kids lose out on having their father visit them, lose out on their wish for alone time for about half of their visit to their father's house, and lose out on half the costs of a hotel room for Kathy for the other half (on top of the overall loss of the fact that they don't get to see their father every day like Kathy does)

-Kathy loses a few days time with her husband and half the cost of a hotel bill (if she even has to stay in a hotel at all; she could potentially GAIN a visit with a friend or relative)

And again, it isn't JUST altruism, empathy or family peace that would motivate me to offer the compromise. I personally would have a real problem with someone thinking I'm over-controlling or over-present so I would strive to be as above-reproach and as accomodating as possible to deflect those criticisms and pre-empt possible sources of ammunition. But that's just me.

Kathy, if eldest daughter is around enough to have a good understanding of his condition, does she understand why he doesn't really want to travel? Can he enlist her support in dealing with her siblings and coming up with a solution that works for everyone? It may not really be strictly fair to her to get stuck in the middle, but if she understands both sides, she might be in an ideal spot to figure out what it is exactly that everyone wants and how to find a good compromise.

The motives of the children (I feel ridiculous for referring to grandparents my dad's age as children BTW) are irrelevant. The fact is that if dad is reluctant to travel, with or without his wife, his offspring should respect that. They are not 'kids'. They have spouses, kids & grandkids. If they want to have 'alone' time with dad, they can visit near his home and take him out for the day. My grandfather is still alive, he's 96. Since he's widowed, he now lives with my aunt since he had a mild stroke. He could travel, he came to my wedding two years ago, but if he had not come, I would have completely understood. Family (he has eight living children & their spouses, and their children w/spouses and grandchildren w/spouses and a few great great grandchildren) goes to visit him in his home and nobody, absolutely nobody, would EXPECT him to travel to visit THEM. He's always welcome to come visit any of us if he chooses, but if we want to see him, we go to where he is. I find it selfish for these middle aged 'children' to even make the request that he come visit them without his wife, even if his daughter is offering to accompany him. Their motives??? We can speculate all day long if the kids resent SM and don't want her around or if they are trying to get him to change his will or whatever... I don't think that's the issue. The issue is whether he is wrong or should he feel bad for refusing to go, with or without his wife. He should absolutely have zero guilt if he doesn't go. They should have guilt for even asking and if they are making a big deal over it, they should be ashamed. They are not little children that don't understand and need dad's attention or alone time, they are grown ups that have their own lives.

as for anyone who suggested that Kathy leave her home if they come to visit, for shame!!! I disagree that a step parent should have to leave their home at ANYTIME for a step child of any age. It is their home too. I agree young children (under say 30 or 35) might want alone time with a parent and a step parent should respect that but give me a break... 50-60 year olds don't qualify as 'kids'. Sure, they may want to have a one on one conversation with dad and sure, SM can go read a book or work on crafts, but no way should she EVER be made to feel like she doesn't belong in her own home or that she should leave to keep peace with his kids. OUTRAGEOUS!!!

All,

I believe this will be my last post on this subject. While I do not intend to defend my husband's or my actions, I will say that some of you are making comments and suggestions without reading the information I've written. So here is the last on this subject:

Husband's health issues in past eleven years: Cataract surgery; Double hernia surgery; Benign lump surgically removed from neck; Mitral valve (heart) replaced with pig valve - open heart surgery; Stroke affecting right side with 1.5 years subsequent neurological problems - 80% recovery; Pacemaker surgically installed; Internal Defibrillator surgically installed; Hearing aids in both ears; Numerous skin cancers removed from head/face; Ruptured Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm with infection complications - miraculously he survived the surgery to save his life and repair the Aorta; Lifetime prescription of antibiotics to ward off any more abdominal infections; Bell's Palsy on both sides of face; Three incidents of T.I.A.s (Transient Ischemic Attacks, aka "mini strokes"); Taking medication for Moderate Dementia for four years; Additional medications for: Hypothyroidism; Tachyarrhythmias, Atrial Fibrillation and heart arrhythmia; Coumadin (blood thinner) and baby aspirin; Furosemide, a drug used to treat problems with heart failure; Potassium to replace that lost with use of Furosemide; Blood pressure meds; plus, of course, healthy vitamins. At various times some of the Kids have spoken with doctor, too.

All Kids (plus my siblings) have copies of all of our emergency info including: Soc. Secy. Nos; List of our medical histories and Medications; and, contact info for our Financial, Legal, and insurance professionals and all family members on both sides. Of course they do not have a copy of our Trusts or Wills, combination to our safe, or our specific investment or bank information.

Having taken care of parents' estates I know how important it is to have emergency information available ... just in case of a local or national crises, too.

Kids have been given airline tickets when they needed and we've paid for their accommodations when my husband's been in major surgeries in Seattle. We've had dozens and dozens of long visits, with many overnights and weekends at our home. Xmas meals (always on 23rd so as to give them opportunities to have dinner with their Mom and spouse's families). Every other year Thanksgiving weekends at our home. 7-day Cruise for entire family; Numerous telephone calls each week to various family members; Constant email contact and sharing of photos; We've taken all 6 grandchildren on trips for their high school graduations; We've attended all 6 college graduations. We've attended 4 weddings (the 5th one will be in mid-October in Santa Barbara) and Kathy's granddaughter was the flower girl for one of them. I've made embroidered linen lavender sachets for more than 150 guests for each of the weddings, and am making monogrammed linen napkins for the October wedding (per bride's request).

The only flying trip we'll make this year is in four weeks to the Santa Barbara wedding -- and that's as much travel as husband wants. He's not real comfortable with that, but feels that this is important to show support to dear grandson and his bride. Husband says "that's it" for travel.

Perhaps it's time to give this discussion a rest. I'm all for that. I think I understand what you have written and suggested. I believe some of you might have a better understanding, now especially, why my 85-year-old dear husband has a valid concern about not flying and/or traveling without me.

Thank you for construction comments.

Kathy in Washington
(10-year Breast Cancer Survivor - Oh yes, that was during the same eleven years of husband's medical problems!)

What you're supposed to get Dad on his birthday: a cardigan, a nice tie and maybe a book.

What you're not supposed to get Dad on his birthday: presssure, a guilt trip and stress.

Given your husband's health issues, it would be best to say a polite no and put this issue to bed as soon as possible.

PS - congrats on beating cancer!

I am with the " they should visit Dad at home" crowd. Tell them if they want time with dad, they can come and visit your home, and you will use that time to take a much needed break from caring for someone with severe health problems and dementia

Or, to diffuse the politics , you could have your husbands doctor put his foot down and say no way to a flight.

I also would be considering getting power of attorney , since your husband has dementia. It would be easy to do, a matter of writing up a paper at a lawyer since your husband is still mostly in control of his senses, and since the motives for the kids wanting this time alone are a little suspect, I would protect my own future interests, and the interests of my husband, by making sure that I am the one legally in charge of his financial and health decisions .

If two daughters are uber religious, the motive for the meeting may be nothing more than a last attempt to convert their father to their religious viewpoint. Some religiously fanatical people , when they know that someone they love has a limited number of years left on earth, seemed to feel pressure to preach their particular brand of faith in a last ditch attempt to "save" the relative. That could be what this is about.

TOS it is not children's business what age are their stepparents. I don't understand at what point it becomes their business? Who i want to be intimate with or marry is not DD's business. Of course I am not talking about bringing abusive people in children's lives. But age? Then should they object race, religion, ethnicity as well? Or socio-economic status? On what basis adult (or minor for that matter) children should be even involved in a decision who their parents marry?
hey some men marry older women because sex is better. lol should kids object to hat too? You are too funny. How do you come all wiht this?

I wanted to say "how do you come up with this?" lol

man is 85 and has dementia for G-d's sake! And yet people have to insist that adults kids need Daddy to travel so they can be alone with him. ha. they can come and visit. because they are his kids and he is their daddy it does not mean they have rights to demand him jumping through the hoops. it is selfih to demand old and obviously pretty ill man to travel so babies can play with daddy. it is ridicilous and selfish. I loved my dear grandma deerly but I do not remember demanding that she travels at 85 so i can enjoy my time alone wiht her (and maybe make sure she leaves me more inheritance lol). same topic about how selfish some adult children can be and frankly immature. mature people don't demand favors from elderly and sick relatives.

I agree with imamommy. stepparents should not leave their house when kids visit. stepparents live there, where do they suppose to go? it is ridiculous. so if grown children are married and parents visit them, then children's spouses suppose to leave and go somewhere else? or if I want time alone with my mom, my dad should leave the house? go where???? how stupid is that?

It is never selfish to want to spend time alone with your parent. When we were together, our kids spent a significant amount of time alone with each of us, as well as time with us together. Other than at a noisy restaurant or in the car, I don't think my kids have spent a single minute alone with their father since he left and moved in with his current wife.

Yes TOS demanding ill and elderly to travel is selfish. he cannot travel. he does not want to travel. he refuses to travel. Demanding him to travel is selfish. kids have to visit him in order to see him.

the fact that your X is not a very good father does not mean that this particular old man has to travel despite his illness. your situation has nothing to do with it. Your X is just an idiot in my perception. he is not an example by no means.

Whether he travels or not is irrelevant - his children should be able to spend a significant amount of time with him alone. I think Serenity proposed a good compromise.

I'm not in the least bit shamed for suggesting kathy go away for a few days and let the kids have time just with their dad. Is she required to do so? Of course not. Is she a bad person if she chooses not to? Of course not. But, assuming that her husband's health allows it, it would not hurt her to do so and at worst would be an inconvenience for her, and may give her husband's children something important to them. I happen to think the world is a better place and people have better relationships when we are willing to go above and beyond what is required of us in order to help each other out. Sometimes, who is right or wrong is not important. Sometimes, it is not even a relevant question. Sometimes, what can I do to make things better for someone else? is going to get everyone a lot farther in life than figuring out who is "right" and who is "wrong". Kathy and her husband are "right". The "kids" are being ridiculous to expect their father to travel. So what? If she can make a relatively small sacrifice in order to give them something important to them (whether or not anyone else thinks it *should* be important), what in the world would be wrong with that?

Going out for the day (shopping, a movie, manicure, etc.) to give kids time alone with a parent is one thing. Getting a hotel and staying away for overnight to days is another. It's ridiculous, unless someone wants to take a mini-vacation alone. At worst it would be an inconvenience for her? No, at worst she could be victimized in a hotel alone. Is that likely to happen, maybe not. But, traveling alone can be dangerous, more than a mere inconvenience. Also, if she is the caregiver to her husband, it would be an inconvenience to him as well to have her not be there. As a caregiver to my step mom, I can say that it's not so easy to take off and leave the care to someone else. Everyone does things their own way and if the regular caregiver is not there, the new caregiver must be trained in how to give the care. Of course it depends on the level of care needed, but it isn't always so easy to just leave.

I think that an important consideration is how much quality private conversation time can the dad give to anyone.

At 85 and with a slight case of dementia at the time, my dad could not focus for more than an hour in any conversation. He was not a sociable as he was before, and his attenditon span was somewhat limited. All of us kids took this into consideration when we went to visit him.

My dad would go to bed early (and still does), so there wasn't a point in staying there past 8PM. If the wife is the primary caregiver, shouldn't she be there at night to be of assistance? What benefit can the kids get while the dad is sleeping vs. the care she can give him?

I think that providing some quality time for the kids is good during the daytime at the dad's house. Beyond that, I would question the value of several days vs. the dad viewing this as an inconvenience.

I think the thing that confuses me is why it would even be an option for her to leave her home to give the kids alone time. If my father were in the same position (well infact my grandfather was in the same position up until two weeks ago) NO ONE in my family would ever dream of suggesting that my grandmother would need to leave her home to allow the 'kids' alone time with dad. To me that is just ridiculous. And, we never ever would have hounded my grandfather to make a trip that he simply didnt want to (especially in those last years) We all visited often (more frequently when we all thought his time was coming to an end) and we spent time as a family together. There were always times when someone got a chance to spend some alone time with my granfather... (which is a feat in itself since immediate family numbers are over 20 these days) ... This all is just so baffling to me.

wow, you guys are just reading way too much into this suggestion. I never said anything about a hotel, I was thinking more along the lines of "hey, how about timing a visit to a sibling to coincide with hubby's kids visiting him". It is not unheard of for one spouse to visit family or friends without the other spouse, on occasion. Not everyone does, but a lot of people do. Obviously, if his health didn't allow it, she wouldn't do it... I don't think we know that one way or the other... she said he's not comfortable travelling, not that he's at death's door or couldn't handle her being gone a night or two. There also might be other reasons it wouldn't be a good idea for kathy and her husband. That doesn't mean that I, or serenity, or anyone else who had the idea, did something bad or wrong by making the suggestion, just that it's one idea that might not work for her. There *are* families and situations where it would work. In fact, there are situations where it would be a wonderful break for the caregiver, to be able to go visit a friend and decompress with no responsibilities for a day or two, while other family was there to help out the spouse.

I should add, too, that the only reason I suggested a hotel was if it was going to be said that Kathy didn't have any friends/family nearby or if these people should happen to be otherwise indisposed at the time of the kids' visit. If the husband's health is such that she can't handle the idea of being FAR away from him for very long, then that of course narrows the pool of potential friends/relatives she can stay with to just those in the nearby vicinity, which is why in this case a hotel would be a viable alternative. And yes, she could be victimized in a hotel, but she could also be victimized in a Walmart parking lot or the park or in her own home.

I mean, yes, it sounds wierd the idea of separating a pair of 'grandparent'-y figures for a few days, but like Quirk says, it's not unheard of, even in old age, to have some degree of this sort of independence as an individual person. And the more I think about the overtone of the suggestion that the man is ONLY "comfortable" if Kathy is physically within a certain amount of feet away, the more I think it implies that, conversely, he is "uncomfortable" with anyone else, which if I were his kids I would find not only insulting but rather disturbing. Like Kathy, his kids are his family, and the idea that he would be uncomfortable with them alone indicates to me that an unhealthy level of codependence has been set as the norm. Sorry, but that's how it sounds, and I'm betting the kids feel the same way. The kids are almost as old as Kathy, and presumably have the same amount of love, concern and capability to make sure they take care of their father's pills and meals and appointments and smoothies for a few days. If there is any major catastrophe that occurs ---from a heart attack to he didn't like how the kids sliced the bananas in his oatmeal, I'm sure Dad will make a fuss and call Kathy, who will be nearby to swoop in and save the day.

And again, it's a lot less wierd as an OFFER Kathy makes than as an expectation or demand the kids push. I really think that's a main reason the kids decided to ask for Dad to come and see them, because they wanted some alone time with their Dad but didn't feel it appropriate to ASK or EXPECT Kathy to leave her house if they visited. Make sense?

Is the time ever going to come on this forum where the person who started the post isn't raked over the coals? We sound like a bunch of bitter old %$#&%s. I include myself in the group because of one of my posts here. I am shocked that such things are assumed about people that we don't even know. Some of us are still hurting from the past. It seems that if an opportunity presents itself to lash out at someone and tie what has happened in our past to them we just can't resist. These posts take on a life of their own and if you go back and read the original message it has been altered so much by strangers that you would think we are here to purposely hurt each other rather than help.

We could do much more good if we changed our attitudes from bitter, negative and hateful to that of a person who has lessons to pass on from experience. All of us have had a great deal to handle throughout our lives it seems. I think that we should be kinder to each other and pass along any wisdom that we may have gained through hardship with gentleness, respect and love.

I would like to apologize to TOS for what I posted about her. I was out of line and I shouldn't have posted it. I don't care for your negative attitude TOS, that is true. But I am sorry to have lashed out at you in this forum and to do so by name. I am sorry that you have been hurt. It is obviously a pain that remains with you. I don't know how one heals from these things. I seldom read a comment from you that is not laced with bitterness. That is an awful way to live. I have had great difficulties with that myself concerning my XH.....All of that being said....I'm sorry for behaving the way that I did. I don't have to agree with you to show you respect.

After having dealt with this personally for quite some time. I know that my own grandfather pitched a royal fit when my grandmother even left to go to the store much less ... if she had left to go to a hotel so the kids could visit by himself. The kids/grandkids didnt take offense. Infact, we all felt the exact opposite and felt for Granny that she had such a burden placed on her shoulders and how hard it was to watch her husband since the age of 16 wither away to a former shadow of who he truly was. And, more so, my granfather had a problem with his kids administering to him... well because he is a proud man and they are his kids and he is supposed to take care of them not them him. (silly yes.. but it happened nonetheless)It does not suggest an unhealthy level codependance or was set up as an insult to anyone but rather a man in his last days wanting things the way he wants them... and needing that person by his side. And I think any 'kid' that is taking offense to that kind of a thing is only seeing his or her needs rather than their father or grandfathers. And the fact is when someone you love comes to the end of his days... it is better to respect his wishes and make the best of what time you have. I am not saying that your suggestions were terrible horrible suggestions or that it makes anyone a bad person. It is only that my opinion is that this isnt something that I or anyone in my family could ever even think of doing and seems all a little outlandish to me.

mom_of_4; I understand. I was really reacting more to ima's comment that those of us who made the suggestion should be ashamed of ourselves; that just seemed a bit unfair. Guess I was feeling a little defensive, but I got over it.

kathy-- sorry for the diversion, most of us really were trying to help!

Yeah, and no offense but what happens if that One Person in This Whole World Who They Rely On gets hit by a bus? Wouldn't it be nice if their worlds weren't QUITE so totally entangled with one another that when the other person inevitably has to leave the room at some point or heaven forbid leave this earth that it wouldn't be a horrendously world-shaking adjustment they have to make, on top of their other ailments and losses, to adjust to a different but equally capable person to care for them? All your eggs in one basket and a general atmosphere of mistrust over anyone else on earth being able to do the job properly is a dangerous, exhausting and terrifying proposition, NOT LEAST for the patient in question.

The reason I feel strongly about that is that currently my maternal grand-parents down in Miami, both around 90 years old, who have always been extremely enmeshed with one another, are both suffering from dementia, among the many other more-or-less typical conditions of elderly people that have been cited above. My grandmother's dementia is extreme and my grandfather's is just starting but it's getting worse fast. For so many years, my grandfather has been extremely protective of my grandmother and has wanted to be her sole caregiver & support, which is really sweet and everything but I guess he didn't anticipate that the stress of being the sole caregiver 24 hours a day, 7 days a week would wear him down to the point that he would be told by his doctor (recently) that he is at enormous risk for a fatal heart attack, directly due to the stress of caring for her. He also didn't anticipate that he would develop dementia himself. And because he didn't anticipate these things, and because he didn't trust any outside professional or any other family member to tend to her properly, he engendered a situation in which SHE doesn't trust anyone else either, and now they BOTH have to deal ----because their conditions now give them no other choice--- with trusting not only their children (gasp!) to care for them and make important decisions, but FOUR different caregivers at any given time whose lives they make hell until they drive them away. My mother has been the one in charge of orchestrating the hiring and scheduling of the caregivers and she has had to repeat this process not only the 25 times in which a caregiver got fed up and left but almost every day of the week as both my grandparents continually try to drive them off but at the same time are hopelessly dependent on them. If they are not driving one off, they are asking another one to work 24 hour days and never leave!

And why are there FOUR caregivers, on top of my uncle and mom who spend huge chunks of their lives looking after my grandparents and their affairs? Because IT TAKES MORE THAN ONE PERSON to provide round-the-clock care for any infirm individual. It's a matter of simple math: NOBODY CAN BE AWAKE AND ADJACENT 24 HOURS A DAY. Period. It's not possible.

So right now both of my grandparents are in a paranoid hell of their own making because neither of them got used to the idea of trusting anyone in the world outside their house to be able to do anything for them. Hence every supremely qualified, many-years-experience professional caregiver with the patience of a saint is feared as an interloper but depended on as though they were a wrathful capricious god. There is absolutely no sense of a healthy balance of dependence and trust in anyone. My grandmother spits and curses at them, as well as her own children, and guess what? She now does the exact same thing to my grandfather. Part of this is the dementia itself, but it's also in large part to the over-insular culture of paranoia and over-co-dependence that has flourished in their house for many years, outside of which everyone was suspect.

It's a big enough job for FOUR PROFESSIONAL CAREGIVERS to handle the simple day-to-day physical needs of what up until recently was just my grandmother. On top of that, my uncle and mother spend no less than an average of three hours a day just handling the schedules, finances, appointments, errands, etc. and are "on call" round the clock, and even if they didn't work they'd still be exhausted because of the emotional factor inherent in that they LOVE my grandparents because they are family. How in the h3ll can ONE PERSON do 100% of the load 100% of the time, especially when they are not only NOT a professional but also have the emotional aspect of their on feelings and love for the patient in question? And why would this person refuse help?!

I share this story with you because it's 100% the truth and I'm telling it as a cautionary tale. I realize that Kathy in Washington is younger than her husband and the odds are against her dying first, but even still, there is burnout. And again, she just can't be around him every hour of every day, it's not possible and it's not healthy. At the very least SHE needs a break. I think if I was Kathy in this situation, I would fling open my front door as wide as it would go and make every effort to, if nothing else, "train" my husband's kids in the day-to-day details required and say "stay as long as you like and I DON'T MIND IF I DO take a few days off because I need all the help I can get and I TRUST THAT YOU CAN DO IT!" The idea of this One and Only trusted caregiver sounds sort of cute and touching at first, but it's not something that should be encouraged, for ANYBODY's sake. Just ask my mother, uncle, the four caregivers, my grandfather and my grandmother. It's not a good scene.

You are sorely mistaken if you think that I dont have a complete concept of what it takes to take care for an ageing and sometimes very grumpy individual. My great aunt and great uncle (amazing people) were highly indepedent of each other even in old age and yet fiercly loyal to one another. They also happened to have enough mula to be able to pay for the very best progressive retirement home... and yet still my great aunt (suffering from demetia and severe alhzeimers) didnt want anyone except her husband near her... I think it is safe to say in my experiance it has a lot more to do with wanting the person that has always been by yourside ... by your side.

And it has absolutely NOTHING to do with being cute or touching. I can assure you that nothing my grandfather or grandmother suffered through in his final days was cute or touching. Rather gut wrenchingly sad.... Never once was it said that no one else helped or tended to his needs. As I and the entire family pitched when we could and even when we couldn't. In addition we had care workers (a few in fact) working with him and my grandmother. However, that did not change the fact that he did not want my grandmother to not even leave to go to the store. And he most definately did not want his kids administering to his needs. (though sometimes we had to no matter what he said)I did say that it is not so odd or a sign of anything unhealthy or insulting that someone reaching the end of their days wants that one person beside them and will infact insist upon it. And, given that it is their final days.. I think it is far more important to give in to their simple need to have that person near... to have that comfort that for whatever reason in their head they feel they have to have ... than to insist upon anything else. (please note this is not to say that we didnt say on several occasions paw paw you are going to have to deal with it. be angry if you must but granny needs to go to the store ... and then we would take her out to lunch and the hairdresser or whatever but we NEVER suggested that she leave overnight or out of town... nor did we ever make plans for him to travel unless he wanted and/or on occasion insisted upon it.)

And while I am busy discussing his need to be near her... her need was just as great. (with both grandparents and great uncle) Even when we could get her out of the house... her concern for him and what could be happening when she wasnt there was so profound. I truly think her and his biggest fear was that they would not be there when they finally did pass. And while we encouraged her to get out of the house for a few hours at a time we most certainly never forced her hand... or insisted upon it when she wasnt ready. On the days that she was we were there.

Perhaps I am taking this the wrong way... but I will reiterate this one more time...

THERE WAS NOTHING CUTE OR TOUCHING ABOUT THIS and for you to imply that it is some sort of romantic idea rather than a fact of life for them and something we supported as well as we could while looking over their own individual needs because the simple fact is that they are grown adults and our parents/grandparents and we should respect their wishes for themselves as well as we can... is deeply insulting and well... I dont have words.

I'm sorry if my words offended you... and I didn't have you or even anyone in particular in mind when I said what I said about "cute and touching", I just think that can be a reason why people get themselves into these insular situations, yes, as a "romantic" ideal. That and the desire many of us have to be truly needed and supremely important to somebody, none of which is any sin or crime to have these ideas or desires. But just that it can have unintended negative effects, and for a large number of people outside of just the pair. And again, no ONE person can be present and able to meet every potential need at every minute of every day. And regardless of the situation I stand by what I have seen that has formed my opinion that the patient in question should be encouraged wherever possible to trust additional people to care for them, in case of emergency and for everyone's sake. It can't help but benefit the patient.

I am hearing you that perhaps at this stage an overnight away from their partner might be too much to ask. It might be too late. But at some point a line needs to be drawn for the reasons I gave above. If not an overnight, then how many hours apart? And it's a matter of the underlying reasons. It's one thing to not want to spend a night alone in bed without your partner, especially at that age, and I hear you on that and I suppose agree with that after all. But it's a very different matter for a patient to not want their partner to leave to go the store for half an hour. It just is not practicable, however much they may want it. Especially if there is only ONE trusted caregiver. So where is the line drawn? If they don't want the partner to leave to go the store, that is a level of dependency that, while it may be common and understandable to some extent, is just not something to overly encourage. You said it wasn't with your grandfather, and that is good. (It wouldn't have been posible anyway, though.) But with some people, if it is reinforced in one way or the other over and over like "I know, I know, I'm the only one who can fluff the pillow like you like" or "who else is gonna make the coffee like I can?", then I would think it would tend to reinforce the dependency to an unhealthy degree. Not saying that is what has happened with anyone on this board or their family members (it has happened in mine) but that perhaps this level of dependency MIGHT be less if that Very Trusted Person was to get in the habit of saying things, for example, like: "I know you love my coffee, but guess what? I just finished showing Junior how to make it and I swear it's even better than mine... give it a try, you'll love it!" or "I know you'll miss me when I leave for the day, but look, your favorite niece is coming by and you're going to have a wonderful time because she loves you so much and she's so lively and sweet. I can't wait to hear all about it when I come home!" To some extent, yes, elderly people are set in their ways and want things how they want them, and there's only so much change ---of ANY kind--- that they will adjust to without some amount of upset. But there can be choice between encouraging the over-dependent behavior and discouraging it by encouraging the person to happily trust and embrace other caregivers as much as is possible. It's not failproof, but I think it's worth a try. I think it sounds like you and your family tried to do that, and that's good. I don't know if everyone else thiks to do that, though, and that's where I fear the "romantic" ideals come in...

Oh goodness gracious! The POINT of the OP was that the kids actually had the nerve to pressure and 85 year old man to travel a long distance on a plane, without his wife, and then held out for 22 days thinking they were going to get the answer they wanted. ON TOP OF THAT, they didn't say the considerate thing like "how about we come there and visit you, dad?" ON NO! They have the gall to say "oh Kathy can come, too". THAT'S ONLY HALF OF THE POINT! The main thing they failed to be considerate of is their own father, that everyone insists they love sooooooooooooooo much they want to spend these last final times alone with him. SURE, they caved and said Kathy could come, but they bare still expecting this old and frail man to travel. DO YOU ALL NOT SEE HOW SELFISH AND INCONSIDERATE AND DISGUSTING THESE "KIDS" ARE???????

Kathy,
How did the visit with daughter go on Monday?
Have tensions eased?

~Cat

i sometimes want time alone with my mom, should my dad go somewhere for few days stay wiht some people so i can have my alone time with mom? or only stepparents have to leave their own house and go stay somewhere else? or because they are stepparents, they are not welcome in their own home and can be asked to leave to make stepkids happy? how funny!

I cannot imagine any sane person asking anyone who resides in the house to leave for few days. should i ask my SIL go somehwre for couple of days so i can have my brother for myself?

I cannot imagine DD asking SM pack and go live somewhere for couple of days because she wants dady to herself. It would be so rude! what are you guys proposing???

exactly ashley, i cannot imagine asking any elderly and ill to go anywhere for my sake. especially if they don't want to go.

Dear all,

Here's a copy of email I sent to the three Kids:

Dear SS, SD1 and SD2,

SS, your father tried phoning this evening, left a message, and turned in for bed before 9pm. He did have an opportunity to speak with SD2 on the phone a bit earlier, and he went to visit with SD1 at (her work) for a couple of hours today.

I want you to know that we would really, really enjoy having all three of you here for a few days to spend lots of time with each other and your father.

I know you all would like it best if he would come to (SD's hometown) (either with or without me), but he's feeling pretty stressed, and does not want to travel at all right now.

He and I had planned to have a couple of days in the motorhome this September. We had talked about it in the late summer, after it was evident that we weren't going to be busy canning our non-existent fruit this year. But now he doesn't want to go anywhere. He seems to forget about the plans we had made -- that's just how things are right now.

It's been very confusing to him to have all the conversations with all three of you about how, where, dates, etc., regarding this visit and trying to explain how and why he feels like he does. What he would like best is for all of you to come here and stay in our home or cottage (which we are still keeping vacant until we hear the final plans). Right now he's most comfortable at home, and he can't think of being anywhere else.

I think the best thing to do for everyone would be to just try and make this visit as easy as possible, as comfortable as possible for everyone, and just plan on having nice relaxing days "chewing the fat", reminiscing, and hanging out together. Going sightseeing, going on adventures, experiencing new things ... are out of his comfort level. He's unsure on his feet, is afraid of feeling confused, and can't describe how he feels at times.

I know that I have many projects I can work on and things I can do on my own, which would afford all of you time to be there to talk, listen, and nap with your father as you see fit! Who knows, you might all enjoy relaxing in one of his two favorite rooms and close your eyes like he does!

Maybe there will be a day where your father feels less weak, confused, agitated or stressed and he will feel like riding with me over to SS's town, SD2's town, or SD1's Island -- but that day is sure not now.

Since I'm the only one here who can tell you what it's like to no longer have your parents alive, I'll let you know this: It's final. It's nothing you can wish or pray to change. There are no more opportunities to enjoy their presence. There are no more opportunities to say what you wanted to or should have said. And if I had to live with regrets for not doing what I knew I needed to do ... well, it would be unbearable.

Please understand that I'm not trying to "guilt" any of you into anything ... I'm just trying to share what I've learned because I've recently experienced losing both of my dear parents. They weren't perfect; my father especially wasn't always easy; and I wasn't always the best daughter. However, next to your father, their wellbeing and happiness were my top priorities. Above all else, you must know that my love, time, energy, and money went to care for them and your father, as it does now for your father alone. I know that I tried to put myself in their shoes and do everything I possibly could for them, just as I would hope that my daughter and granddaughter will do for me someday.

So, please do what you can to visit with him sooner rather than later. As we all know, "later" doesn't always arrive.

And if you all can't make it here together (with or without your spouses) please know, again, that you are always welcome to come visit on your own.

Love,
Kathy

......................................

This is the email I received back from SD2:

Dad and Kathy,

I spoke very briefly to (brother - SS) this morning. He should find out within a couple of days when he has to go to (foreign country for work).

I would prefer October 17 as I think it would be better for my work. Our freshmen are arriving tomorrow and school begins September 22. Its always crazy this time of year and I can feel the tension around my office increasing each hour. So IÂm hoping that (brother - SS) will know in two days (by Thursday) if he is available Oct. 17. If he doesnÂt know by then, maybe IÂll need to get bite the bullet and be brave and let (my boss) know IÂm taking Friday, Sept. 26 off (donÂt ask, tell her!!) and weÂll come that weekend. I want to know by Thursday so that I can book at least a one week in advance flight.

IÂm leaning towards flying out on Thursday night but that will get me in to Seattle between 10-11 pm then I will need to drive to (your home). If I leave on Friday, half the day is over before I get there. I will be leaving Sunday evening whether we come Sept. 22 or October 17 to get back to work on Monday.

IÂm sorry for all the confusion and seemingly indecisiveness. But itÂs just that all of our lives, like everyone elseÂs, is complicated with all 3 of our work schedules. I havenÂt spoken to (SD1) yet but hopefully sheÂs flexible.

Love,
SD2
.................................................
Here's the email I sent back to all three of them

Dear SD2, SD1, and SS,

Thank you both for trying to arrange things.

SD2 and SS, I am willing to pick you up and take you back to Seattle airport. Your father might be willing to "go for a ride" since he usually reclines his seat and sleeps whenever we travel beyond (our home town) anyway. I'm accustomed to driving to and from the airport, and night driving isn't a concern for me. It's not my favorite thing, of course, but it's not too difficult as long as there's not rain.

However, if both of you, SS and SD2, are able to arrange flight times close to each other and you'd like to rent a car that's fine too. I don't know the need for another vehicle while you're all here, but that's up to you, of course.

Your father's still in bed, and I'm bringing coffee in to him and we'll sit and enjoy that. I'll let him know of the (still possible) dates. I know he'll feel relieved and happy to know that you'll all three be here.

And SD2, the lawyer I worked with for so long (and who is still a good friend and I admire so much) had a lovely sign in his office. About "easier to ask forgiveness than permission". I think you'll find this true with your boss! Of course, we got most of our clients through that same adage ... trying to sort out their "forgiveness" because they hadn't asked "permission", but I don't think (your boss) will sue you about this! ha ha

I'll put the cream in his coffee, and go visit with your father right now.

Thank you both (and SD1, too) for trying to arrange this visit with your father.

Love,
Kathy

..................................................

NOW, friends on the Stepfamily forum:

I thank you for all your ideas, suggestions, comments, and opinions.

My husband made his decision and spoke with all the kids about it. They discussed it amongst themselves. I sent emails and they sent emails.

Everything is settled and, as you can see, all communications are friendly, proper, and loving.

I am certain we will have a nice visit with them ... whether they arrive in a week or so, or later in October after we return from our one flight of the year ... to a grandson's wedding in Santa Barbara.

PLEASE LET THIS TOPIC DIE OF NATURAL CAUSES, NOW. I hate to see so many of you going on and on about this. This is NOT what I needed from any of you. I don't think continuing this conversation is beneficial to anyone. I believe we all know where everyone stands now.

However, if any of you would like to learn more about Dementia and/or Alzheimer's Disease, I suggest you do some research. I've read a number of comments that led me to believe some of you just don't understand the disease and its symptoms and behaviors.

Now, to all, Goodnight! I'm joining my husband in the library where we will watch (undoubtedly) something on The History Channel, because that's one of his favorites!

Kathy in Washington

P.S. I'll tell you a perk of being married to a man who fought in World War II: learning my history from him! I know more about that war than I ever learned in school. And I have such a great appreciation for what truly was The Greatest Generation! Please ask questions of anyone you know who fought then -- they'd most likely be happy to share their experiences with you.

I am glad to hear that everything worked out just wonderfully. you sound like such a great person. hope that visit will go great, I know it will.

Kathy,
I'm so glad I asked and even more happy that this all seems to be falling into place in a most comfortable way for all involved.

Your Hubs must be very relieved and now can relax and look forward to the visit from his chldren. I think your emails were very kind and thoughtful and I'm sure that played a big part in accepting your very gracious invitation. I am so impressed with the loving kindness that you handled this. The way you expressed yourself made sure no one would have hurt feelings over it.

I'm really happy for you that the planning is going well. I hope you all have a wonderful visit. Now your Hubby will be comfortable and able to enjoy himself with the children without stressing about anything.

You did great and leave a lesson for the rest of us about handling these difficult situations with grace.

~Cat