Sure sounds like they are being picked on. A lot of times kids act up when they are either under- or over-challenged and it sounds like the girls are under-challenged. Would it be possible to have them tested and possibly moved up a grade?

OH, I would be livid. It's blatantly obvious they are being picked on. I would be at the school board office today & if I didn't like the results I'd tell them fine I'll go to the local news station...Grrr

I can see why you're angry -- But I'd tread very carefully.

Let's assume for a minute that they're not being picked on. (I'm not saying that's what I think -- Just let's start with that assumption.) OK -- So if they're genuinely not being picked on, for you to march into the schol now asking for another favor (their perception) certainly highlights you two as troublemakers, and as the kind of parents who will not support the teachers' efforts. And this is not the kind of reputation you want around the school, because that will cause your kids to be picked on or disrespected in later years.

OK - Now let's assume they are being picked on. Even so, I'd watch carefully for a little while before intervening, and try to work it from the angle of: "I'm on your side and how can I help from my side to improve the situation?" Because if your little girls genuinely are nice, cooperative children, any annoyance the school feels now at their having been placed together should quickly fade away if they see you being 'cooperative parents' and the children not causing any twin-trouble problems.

Frankly, it does sound to me like they're being under-challenged though, and they're probably not the only ones. However, if the school they're in serves a broad demographic, some of the children will need to learn their colors, numbers and letters, and this should be allowed.

At the same time, your two and others like them should be offered opportunities to work at a pace more in keeping with their more-advanced knowledge. Are you able to volunteer in the classroom? Sometimes, an extra adult can do an activity with some of the kids, freeing the teacher to work with those who are behind.

It is also TOTALLY inappropriate for the teacher to criticize a child in front of other parents. How long before you can move to another school district?

Even if no one else knows their colors or how to count to ten, there are far more interesting ways to teach these topics.

This sounds a lot like when I was in primary grades...
I just hung out in lala-land, doing my own thing, and mostly ignoring my teachers because I felt they had nothing to teach me.
I could read when I started kindergarten, so having to learn to count to ten was definitely below my grade level.
My teachers viewed this as a disruption and complained to my mom about it.
My mom asked for me to go to the resource room for some enrichment work. The school complied and voila! I was no longer a "disruption."

It sounds to me that what happened to me is exactly what's happening to your girls, only the school is already bitter because you guys asked for them to be in the same classroom.
I agree with previous posters who suggested trying to find a way to get them some enrichment.

Sweeby- How we are going to approach it is this...I am going to have a co-worker assess the girls. If they score high like I think they will we are going to use the results as an ice breaker. We plan on letting the teacher know we want to work with her and we also have some concerns and the fact they are being under challenged may be part of the problem. We will have assessment results to back us up. If she shows no interest in working with us we will know without a shadow of a doubt what her real intent is.

TOS- I thought it was TOTALLY out of line the way both teachers handled it. The assisstant brought it up in my sewing class and the actual teacher called it out in front of parents at Open House. I consider this a breech of confidentiality. No one needs to know it was a HUGE deal for the girls to be in the same class and staff should not be discussing it amongst each other. It breeds contempt for the children. The teacher also criticizes children in front of other parents. She was calling out each child's individual "behavior problems" in front of all the parents at Open House. Not just by speaking LOUDLY but actually standing at the front of the class and calling out behaviors of specific children to their parents in front of other parents. "Keeping it real" only works if you are dealing with ignorant people and last I checked I'm not ignorant so of course I realized how out of line she was.

The staff as a whole so far has not impressed me with their professionalism. The teacher doesn't speak proper english. N---- came home asking me "Mama, What's a skew?" It took me awhile to figure it out and I finally answered her "Honey, I think your teracher MEANT to say SCHOOL." She gives kid sad faces on paper and takes away ice cream priveledges for using the wrong crayon while SHE has a degree and can not speak like an educated person. Appalling in IMHO. I told N----- to correct her next time she says it :)

Ceph- I think the girls are going through exactly what you went through. They are bored out of their minds. They already hate getting up for school in the mornings. Isn't that sad? They are going into their second month of kindergarten and they already hate school.

I wonder if since you went "above" their heads to keep the girls in the same class IF the teacher now is trying to prove you all wrong? maybe trying to show that it isnt a good idea for the girls to be together....
I would hope a teacher/principal wouldnt be so cruel....

children usually know their colors by age 2-3, no need to learn colors in a kindergraden. i assume other children might not be as prepared for school as your DDs are.

i see only one solution (and it is a tough one). i have moved to a very expensive area (the most expensive in a whole not only county but in a huge metro area), so DD could attend the best district in the area. Since I could not afford to buy a house there i was forced to rent (and I am single). My brother bought a house on the same street so his kids could go to school here. He bought a little ugly dinky old house that costs as much as a huge house somewhere else. It caused bunch of financial sacrifices.

My point is you will not be able to change how this school runs, you can't change what they teach and who attends the school, all you can change it is what you do. At this point all you could do is to move to a better district. You can go and argue but you won't accomplish much. This is not a good district for your DDs. Move.

In a better school district, kids would almost certainly know their colours at age 2 or 3... But sometimes in families that are not well off, and the parents themselves are not well educated, there isn't a lot of concern for the education of children.
I'm not saying that all poor families ignore the education of their preschoolers, or that all affluent people do care about the education of their children, just that this school may be facing the lower end of the bell curve when it comes to what the kids know on the first day of school.

right, in a better district you would not see the same problem. if the other kids do not know the basics, this district is going to teach these kids the way they see fit. in a meanwhile OP's kids would remain unchallenged. that's why I would take kids to a different ditrict. it is understandable that other children are not as prepared, but it does not mean my kid has to be in that school. that's why moving is the only option (or looking at schools of choice in the area)

Is kindergarten mandatory in your state?

It does sound like your girls are bored out of their minds! Is it possible that the school year is starting out as a review and will get more interesteing to the girls soon?

I love Sweeby's advice on how to approach it. As a teacher I know that how the parents approach me about a problem makes a huge difference! I would approach her with the fact that the work they are doing is too easy for the girls and they need something more challenging to keep them focused. And tell the teacher you want to work with her to keep them behaving in class.

It does sound like the teacher and her assistant are unprofessional. From this and what you have mentioned in other posts about this school it does not sound like a school you would want to keep the girls at long term.

Daddy blew up at the teacher yesterday afternoon. Apparently R_______ was talking to one of her friends during clas so the teacher tols her to go stand in a corner for "running her mouth". She literally stuck her in the front of the class and made her put her face in a corner. N_______ said her sissy was crying and the teacher yelled at her for crying. Daddy was none to happy to say the least.

Ladies, these are sweet, respectful, smart little girls. We are just shocked that they are being treated like such little delinquents. The frowny faces, no ice cream, stand in a corner....this is all shocking. We would of never of guessed they would be "problems". They have never given anyone this much trouble. Never.

Jonathan told her basically what he thought. She is strict to a fault and expects too much out of such young children. The girls JUST turned five for heaven's sakes. He told her she is big, loud and scary and the girls are intimidated by her. He also said he thinks she TRIES to intimidate the kids. He told her is kid had better never be put in a corner again. It is punishment by public humiliation and WE don't even do that to these kids so neither will she. He told her she was a subpar teacher and her methods were archaic. He asked her if she even knew what archaic meant....can you believe she said no. He told her to look it up. I was cringing when he was telling me this....hahahaha. Obviously it was let go for far too long.

He is going BACK to the principal today. By the way, the principal saw this going down yesterday but turned his back and walked away. He is TERRIFIED of Jonathan for whatever reason. I'm sure the poor guy is dreading seeing J walk into his office today. J said he was going to apologize for reaming out one of the man's teachers but tell him also he has some very real concerns about the so called "discipline" methods in that classroom. Shoving a kids face in a corner isn't discipline...it's punishment and I'm sorry but only family should punish a child.

Not to mention the entire class was distracted the entire time she was in the corner. The whole class shuts down and stares. Our child isn't learning and neither is the rest of the class. There has to be a more constructive way. Distracting a class to punish a child for distracting one student seems awful counter productive to me. Certainly it is not best practice.

Kids in kindergarten are SUPPOSED to talk to each other. That is one of the objects of kindergarten - development of social skills. Kindergarten is not supposed to be in lecture format. Sure they should be quiet while sitting on the rug in a circle around the teacher listening to a story, but for most of kindergarten the children, if not choosing their own activities, should be moving from learning center to learning center - drawing pictures here, using math manipulatives there, etc. It is supposed to be a nurturing, friendly place where they learn to love school. For my kids, the big thing about first grade was that they each got their own desk (never arranged in neat little rows - that didn't happen until middle school.)

An appropriate correction for a five year old talking when she is supposed to be quiet is to gently remind her that it is not a time to talk, but a time to listen. There is never a reason to embarrass her, and teachers should never criticize or demean a child for crying.

Oh dear. That teacher sounds awful! Unprofessional and punitive. For a kindergarten teacher to be 'scary' is about the worst thing I could imagine. Those poor little girls...

And while I completely understand why your Hubby went off on the teacher, I'm afraid of what will happen next. This is really a bad start and I don't see a good way out of it. How can they stay in that class with that teacher? But asking the school to switch them to another class will solidify your reputation as troublemakers, particularly after that teacher puts her spin on it. The school had to know she was a dictator -- wonder if they put the girls into her class on purpose?

I know it's drastic, but many private schools, Montessori schools and pre-schools offer kindergarten programs. You could pull them out of the public school effective immediately and re-enroll them somewhere else by Tuesday. It certainly sounds preferable to keeping them where they are...

I'm so sorry this is happening --

I saw something on a news special a while back about a kindergartener who did not want to go to school. He was coming home telling his mom how mean the teacher was and all the things the teacher was doing. Mom wanted to hear for herself and planted a recording device in the childs backpack or something. The device recorded all the horrifying things the teacher was saying to the child.

I believe the school apologized and the teacher may have even been suspended for a bit.

Sounds a bit drastic.....but maybe you need proof of how mean this teacher is talking to bring to the school board??

How 'bout I send you the lamp too and you smack teach upside the head with it??

My 2 that have been through Kindy had the most amazing teacher , I can't wait until the little one starts next year - I've been promised he will have her, too. I can't imagine what I would do in your situation - Kindy should be a whole world of excitement for them.

I wonder if talking to parents of other students might help? Perhaps their kids are feeling the same and you could band together. Power to the masses . . . we're trying this to get rid of a teacher at SD's school.

doodle-

I'd call the Administration Building to find out a few things:
1. IS Kindy required? If not, you might consider pulling them out to preserve a love of learning for them.
2. Is there any way to have the girls moved to another class or building.

Interestingly, we live in a VERY good school district...one of the top in the state. Our youngest just started Kindy, and I was surprised to hear that they would be working on their upper case and lower case letters, and learning their numbers 1-100. The majority of kids in her class have been in preschool and already have these tasks mastered. But it seems they have to teach to the lowest ability in the classroom. There are a couple kids who don't know these things, so that's where the semester begins. They will be screened next week for reading ability (which I was happy about since Nat already reads well)...but then they said that the screening was to identify kids who were "at risk" for reading difficulty. I only hope that if there are enough good readers, they will take the struggling readers out for extra help. Or if there are only a few, they will take the good readers out for enrichment.

My concern is the same as yours...Nat is naughty when she is bored. I don't want her to be labeled (in Kindy, no less!) as a difficult child in class. I know for a fact she will be a clown if she's bored. She NEEDS a challenge. She is a highly spirited girl to begin with, but when she is challenged, she just shines.

And, as a few others here have suggested....Is moving an option for you guys? My guess is that you will not be happy with this school even if the girls were in a different classroom with a different teacher. My guess is that the prinicipal in your building isn't going to do anything about the way your girls teacher manages her classroom. How long has she been a teacher? How long has she been in your building?

My gut says get them out of there. Not only will you risk destroying their love of learning, you will risk this woman damaging their sweet spirits. If you can swing it, home-school them this year, or put them elsewhere. Are there any charter schools in your area? They are free. Best of luck to you.

Do teachers in your state have Tenure? That might actually prevent the principal from being able to fire this lady. Or a powerful teachers' union can effectively hogtie the principal also. In other words, even if all the parents band together, even if you have a tape recording showing her to be 'mean' and unprofessional -- None of that may be enough to get her fired. Plus, even if it works, it'll take a long time to happen, and the girls will be hurt before it does.

New school...

Mom2- Dad has actually already mentioned bugging the girls backpacks...hahaha. That is so sad isn't it?

TOS- I feel like this womans expectations of a just turned five year old is WAAAAYYYY too high. I think she would of made a better drill sergeant rather than kindergarten teacher. I feel five year olds should be expected to talk as well. The kid she was talking to was not put in the corner. This raises concerns as well.

Sweeby- It's too late to save us from the trouble maker rep I'm afraid. At this point J is convinced she is being nasty to the girls because she is bitter about having twins in her class so he is taking the no bars held route. He said he might as well live up to the rumors. He is already tired of trying to be polite and frankly mad as hell at the mere thought of the girls being picked on. When I sami-lectured him on the way he handled the situation his response was "People chew out waitresses because their steaks arn't cooked properly....THIS IS MY KIDS! I think I have a right to voice without any uncertainty or sparing any feelings when I have a legit concern." So I dropped it. He's on a war path now and god help that teacher:)

I'm not sure if Tenure is active in Georgia or not but I'll check into it.

He had to meet with her this morning at 8:00. I wonder how it went.