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Electrical Wiring

Sleek/decorative way to extend 2-gang box out from wall??

14 years ago

Got the ol' SHALLOW-box-on-exterior-wall problem... CBS construction, 1" furring strips, box is barely deep enough for std. single-pole switches... for fancy remote-controlled decora dimmers, forget it!

SO... what's the aesthetic way to get another 3/4-1" depth in this situ?

Thanks in advance.

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Comments (7)

Ron Natalie
14 years ago
They make nice decorative blocks primarily to mount external lighting sconces to uneven surfaces. That might be more attractive to you.
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joed
14 years ago
What's the outside wall made of? Can you cut a hole in it for the box to extend into?
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Brick, you got caught up in the "dig up an ancient thread" syndrome. Askgary replied to this thread as if it were posted yesterday. Askgary, no matter how hard you try that will not work. You'll never get the two devices close enough to use a two gang plate. Besides, the way you describe is quite non-code-compliant. You'd have to do more to make it complaint, and even then it would still be nearly impossible to get a plate to fit and would still be hackery.
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What you have is a multi-wire branch circuit (MWBC). Properly installed, they are perfectly acceptable and legal. The key point is that the two hots must be on opposite legs in the panel. Because of the way A/C works, two legs are out of phase by 180 degrees so the neutral carries the difference in current between the two legs. It's biggest advantage is cost savings because you save one [neutral] wire for every two circuits. Frankly, I'm not overly fond of them in residential setting because people don't understand what's going on and there's the potential to get zapped. It's critical to shut off both breakers when working on a MWBC. The rules say that the breakers should be tied so that both are turned off at the same time but that doesn't always happen. Let's say that you have a room where a wall receptacle and overhead light are opposite legs of that MWBC and you decide to replace the receptacle. Unaware it's a MWBC and because the idiot who installed it didn't tie the breakers, you turn off the breaker for the receptacle and test it. It's dead and you start pulling things apart. Because you want to see better you flip on that overhead light. The receptacle will still test dead but as you're handling the neutral you hand brushes up against the grounded metal box. You get zapped. It's not likely to kill you but it's going to hurt. Change the scenario slightly where there's a table lamp plugged into the wall receptacle and you're up on a ladder working on the ceiling fixture. Get zapped slightly, naturally jerk back, loose your balance, and fall off the ladder. So make sure those breakers are tied.
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I won't be able to double check until tomorrow, but yes, it looked like it is on a 15A circuit, nothing about it made me think it was on a 20A circuit, it's on 14-2 wire (consistent with being on a 15A circuit), and it is in a bathroom, just powering a clock radio and an electric toothbrush when we don't temporarily plug in a razor or some hair trimmers. This circuit powers this bathroom's 15A GFCI, and then the line side continues to power some outlets in another room. (I realize that those outlets in the other room are not protected by the GFCI since they're coming off the line side instead of the load side.) So are you saying that all bathrooms MUST be on a 20A circuit? If that's true, it makes me wonder if the old home owner added this line himself and didn't know or care. I just added the two receptacles to the existing GFCI that was already there on 14-2 wire on a 15A circuit. But I'll double check tomorrow. Hopefully, if anything, it is actually on a 20A and 12-2, then I can just switch out my new wires. I just can't see how I would not have noticed that.
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Ooh, like the heat gun idea... have to practice that skill "off-line", lol. Is that an "approved" practice, or just kinda nudge-nudge, wink-wink, quick, no one's looking? steve, why use twin 90-deg sweeps instead of say 22.5 deg large radius pieces (which you will never find locally and will have to special order anyway... lol)?? Yeah, four 90s might be a tough pull. OTOH, with just the 2 90-ells, pulling 3 THWN #12 stranded wires was a no-lube, no-sweat pull. No solution arrived at yet... it's only 6", so I kinda like my "backing" box scheme. Due to "gotta have Xmas lights" pressure from (no children at home, no lawn service) resident, had to "go live" in a sub-code state--mechanically speaking--though "in use" cover is in place. "Next time" (famous last words), I'll go RIGID all the way, and solve 2 or 3 problems at once!
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fixizin
Original Author
14 years ago
They make nice decorative blocks primarily to mount external lighting sconces to uneven surfaces.

Sounds like the ticket! Google not bringing up the right stuff... do you have more precise nomenclature... or links?

This Old House shows a sturdy FOAM block for evening out clapboard siding, but... not clear that can take a Decora switch cover.... hmmm... definitely on the right NON-metallic track. Wiremold Corp.?

What's the outside wall made of? Can you cut a hole in it for the box to extend into?

Nay way. I misspoke. It is not a (hollow) concrete block hurricane bunker, but rather an 8" thick solid concrete (tilt-up) BOMB SHELTER... box is mounted on pre-cast door frame... no jackhammers shall attack the structural perfection. ;')
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brickeyee
14 years ago
"Got the ol' SHALLOW-box-on-exterior-wall problem... CBS construction, 1" furring strips, box is barely deep enough for std. single-pole switches."

And likely has exceeded allowable box fill also.

4x4 boxes with a plaster ring are about as shallow as you can go and still meet box fill rules.

You actually apply plaster to the plaster ring where it covers the face of the box.
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fixizin
Original Author
14 years ago
Plaster I'll hack back from the mud ring and touch-up, reinforced concrete--no, lol.

RE: boxfill... IIRC, though they potentially generate some heat, dimmers count the same as toggle switches in that regard (# of devices), yes/no?

Also, the solution I'm looking for would ADD cubes, would it not?

PS: We're talking metal j-boxes and EMT conduit strapped to concrete walls behind old school (mid-50s) diamond lathe and plaster... is there a more fire-resistant type of residential construction? If the hack-job illegalities I've uncovered haven't even scorched a light switch, I doubt new dimmers, correctly installed, will create a hazard. NOT adding any conductors, so should be able to meet boxfill.
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brickeyee
14 years ago
Devices all count the same for fill (despite dimmers being larger than switches).

Just because it is installed does not mean it is correct.

Having to dig into poured concrete for box depth is not the worst thing in the world.

Drill some holes and chip out between them.

The EMT makes rework harder, but not impossible (slip connectors are your friend).

Fit can also be affected by the brand and style of GFCI device.
Some are smaller and have better terminal locations for minimum allowed box size.

A device with side screws can touch the back of the box you just need to dress how the wires come off the screws.
Pinching wires between the device and the box (especially a metal box) can cause shorts, sometimes nasty ones that are hard to diagnose since they are not solid enough shorts to trip the breaker all the time.

The buzzing and smell may be the only clues.
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DavidR
14 years ago
I don't know if the appearance will work for you, but Wiremold makes open-back boxes intended to originate a raceway run from a recessed box. One of these might give you the depth you need. Paint it to match the wall.
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