The first thing I want to do is acknowledge your pain and hurt feelings. To hear your SD has never liked you makes you feel like you were never given a chance, so where do you go from there? I understand you were venting and upset, but I have learned I have to be extremely careful and not say anything bad about my DH in front of ANY of my kids, but especially my SK's because they become very defensive. I have a 17 year old SD and we have had many of the same issues, so I completely understand. I suggest you journal when you need to vent. It is more private and you aren't in danger of letting your emotions get away from you before you have had time to process them. It is understandable for SD to be angry to hear you say things about her father, even if he deserved it, but that doesn't give her the right to curse at you in your own home. That is the angle I would take. I would apologize for allowing yourself to vent where she could hear you, but you are a human being and an adult in the home, and you will not tolerate her speaking to you in that manner anymore. I have learned that my DH may never stand up for me, so I have to set boundaries for how I will allow others to treat me. It is high time you speak up for yourself and make it very clear what is not acceptable to you. As Dr. Phil says, you teach people how to treat you, and you cannot allow her to treat you that way anymore. As far as her disciplining your younger children, I would take that as a sign of a family that is slowly blending. My older SD does it with her younger siblings (both bio and step) and I think it is normal. That being said, she knows her dad and I are the final word, and we do have to sometimes step in and tell her not to overstep her boundaries. We do appreciate the extra set of eyes, however, and she is very good at making sure she helps watch the kids and make sure they are staying out of trouble. I definitely think your DH could use a bit more tact in the way he is talking to you about his daughter's feelings towards you. I just don't see how is blunt honesty is helping you feel better about the situation, or how it is going to lead you to want to reach out to his daughter.

My last thought is she is already 19 years old. It is a bit too late to start thinking about disciplining her now. She should be equipped with life skills by this point, and I don't think mom or dad could do much now. Family counseling with all of you (particularly with biomom since you get along) could help all of you. If she has her own personal anger or depression, the best thing for everyone is encouraging her to go to counseling to work out the feelings she is experiencing. That is the best thing for her and for your family.

Finally, read some articles on disengaging in a step-family. You have to be able to concentrate on the young children you have and not on a child who should already be raised. Good luck and keep posting. Hopefully, we can offer some encouragement and suggestions.

When I was eighteen, I didn't have the balls to talk to anyone like that! Not even my younger siblings-even when they were about to pitch me over the edge!

I read in a couples book that sometimes you have to beat hubby over the head with a 2x4. First, you ask nicely and communicate calmly a desire for your needs to be met. Second, you tell hubby a little louder that your needs are not being met and he needs to tend to them. Third, you hit him over the head with a 2x4. In this particular instance, the wife left a note on the table saying 'we have our first marriage counseling session monday at 2pm. I'll be there. you be there or I'll be gone when you get home.'

Divorced or not, parents should always show a united front to the children. Otherwise you end up with the kids that go ask dad to say yes when mom says no. I think you and your husband need to come to terms with how you are going to discipline your children. All of them. Sit down, have a talk about what the priorities in the house are, what each of you think the rules should be, and agree that you're going to try to enforce them together, as a couple. Your marriage should be top on the list!!! Nuture that one first and the kids will eventually (hopefully) become an easy second.

And if an 18 year old can't treat the adults in her life with a little more respect, maybe she should experience real adult life. Rent, utilities, cell phone payment, etc.. If she wants to talk like an adult (or in my opinion, a trucker) then she should have the same responsibilities as an adult.

Don't forget that you have a say in what goes on in your house. And what goes on with all the kids. If you make the mistake of disciplining the stepkids differently than the biokids you'll end up with resentment on both sides for YEARS!!! Trust me, my mom still gets ticked off that her stepmom made HER daughters PB&J and made my mom and her sisters eat the cheap, smelly lunchmeat. That was 40 years ago.

And quit bowing down to the SD. Her apology to you should be coming in the form of flowers, washed dishes, detailed car, and a big smooch on the cheek for putting up with her childish bull****. Don't settle for less and make sure your husband knows that!

Good luck here, hopefully you'll find the advice you need!!

I am not surprised that she takes on a mothering role with her half-siblings, since she is 14 & 15 years older than they are. My oldest kids do the same thing with their youngest full siblings. If I were to die, I would have no qualms whatsoever about them raising the young ones.

I would think the fact that you were only 13 & 16 when your stepchildren were born could cause a rift between you and your stepchildren.

olduvai: I completely agree with you that sd's language and behavior is not appropriate. I understand that she may have felt as if you were attacking her father, but that does not give her the right to act as she did. It sounds as if she has been allowed to act that way by both her parents, so if they are not going to side with you then it is best to leave them out of situations like this.

Try to refrain from telling her to go to her moms, or saying she will have to deal with her dad. Try to find a way that works for you to get the point across to her that you will not tolerate this attitude. Maybe walking away from her when she talks this way and then giving a silent treatment for a while will do the trick. Maybe just a conversation between you two will do the trick when things have calmed down. Or maybe some counseling is needed. Try not to beat yourself up about this, though I know it may be unbearable at times! And remember that you just may not be able to change her, you may just have to figure out how you can quickly defuse a situation (ie walk away) before she is able to act that way towards you. ( ya I know that stinks!)

TOS

I do not think that age should matter. olduvai is an adult in their lives and they should treat her with respect. What happened to that old saying "respect your elders"? I do not recall an age requirement on that. How would you feel if your child was rude to a teacher? I know some high school teachers that are only 22 or so and work with 17 and 18 yr olds. (much smaller age difference than what is between olduvai and sk's)

I would feel the same way if my kids were rude to a teacher or rude to one of their peers.

What if olduvai were 8 years younger and the SD were 8 years older? There are certainly men out there who marry women younger than their children. Would it be ok if she didn't treat her with respect because she wasn't an elder?

I think each of them should be treating the other more as if they were peers, since they are both adults and relatively close in age. By the time I was twenty I had friends who were that much older.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I've been in similar situations: I'm 43, skids are 22,24,26, DH is 62 - so I'm right between my middle SKid and my DH but closer in age to my ss than my DH!

Anyway, I have to say that you mustn't apologize anymore unless you're wrong. I'm so guilty of this, but do as I say and not as I do, lol! I recently had a lot of trouble w/ the 24 y.o. who's 3-4 mo. stay w/ us turned into 8 m, but she moved out last month. It was tough, sharing a home w/ another woman who also wanted to be the alpha female.

I think there is a lot to be said of the first born female being very dominant. I think it's the case w/ my 24 y.o. SD and she really knew no boundaries, though we had many, many good times and were on the same page on many issues. In fact, if I was complaining about her dad, she'd agree w/ me and chime in. I know, I shouldn't have done that, but I married Ray from Everybody Loves Raymond, lol, and not the part of him who's afraid of his wife, the part who's glued to ESPN despite my attempts to put all three little ones to sleep at the same, screaming, time, lol.

My SD was also very hard on our oldest, 7. She treated him much differently from the younger two (5, 3) and it was hard to watch. I think if I were the BM of her and my three and she lived w/ us from day 1, I could live w/ her disciplining him, but I really felt she had no right, and the partiality was terrible. I mean, I'm not comfortable disciplining anyone who isn't my bio child (or my Dear Nephews, whom I largely raised from very early ages but never needed to discipline) - not the neighbor's child, not a play date, and I'd certainly never feel like jumping in if SD had a child. I guess there are times when you may need the help - but she never babysat and would just go off on the oldest - her yelling echoed through the house!

Anyway, I think it's sad that DH told you she never cared for you. There's no reason for that - does he give one? I guess you've tried talking to her and it didn't work. I can only tell you to disengage when she's over - just keep your distance and don't walk on eggshells. She should be doing so. Frankly, if my kids ever cursed at another person like she did - esp. my spouse, I think I'd grab her and wash her mouth out w/ soap regardless of her age.

Is she going to college next year? Sit tight if she is and enjoy it when her visits are limited to holidays. She may mature, meet others from blended families that are good examples of stepfamilies and be inspired to grow up, be glad you aren't the SM from Cinderella, and she may just come around.

Is it possible for DH to switch his visitation schedule if he's going to be gone for their entire time w/ you? It's a shame neither he nor her mom is willing to discipline the girl. She'll have to learn the hard way how not to treat people...I commend you on the nice way you described her in the end. I can't understand what makes these gals so difficult!

All the best,
Dana

Hi Olduvai,

I think there's a problem here, but it's not with your SD. It's your husband who is causing and will continue to cause this problem.

1) Your SD was out-and-out wrong to chastise you over a muttered comment. When she shouted at you not to talk about your husband that way, my calm response would have been, "What I say about and to my husband is between him and me." Case closed. If she continues to rant and rave about it, walk away.

2) There's a problem with having one or more siblings who are much older than others. My youngest sisters was born 10 years after the next oldest. At times, she had lots of different people telling her what to do. My mother finally called a halt to it by saying, "What we have here is seven chiefs and 1 little Indian" or lots of people bossing one little person around. You and your husband need to set some boundaries: When SD is babysitting and neither of you are in the house, then she is in charge. When you or your husband are in the house, discipline of the younger siblings is up to their parents, not their sibling.

3) It sounds as if your husband is trying to stir up trouble between his daughter and you. Maybe he's catching some flack from his ex about you and your SD being close. It was wrong of him to tell you his daughter liked you. Unless she says it herself, consider it hearsay. It's not admissible in court, and it shouldn't be in real life.

And always, always, I recommend the same thing between SM and SK. Sit down, face to face, and talk it out. Tell her your feelings and that you want very much to be friends but you need to feel respected. Try to come to some sort of understanding.

I think that what OP says to her husband is between the two of them. I think if OP putting down DH to her biokids is the best example of what sets off SD, the issue isnt entirely SD.

As I said on the thread about putting down children (even jokingly), if you want polite children or polite stepchildren, be polite yourself. Lead by example. If you want parents to be a common front, dont put down DH. While another poster implyed that what OP said was justified, the thought may or may not have been justified (how many hours does dad work? OP?), saying it to the children was not.

That OP would even say it to the children (and it doesnt seem like muttering, unless SD was next to her), to me indicates a lack of maturity, understanding etc. Just becuase she is the SM doesnt mean she can do things or say things without consequences.

It sounds to me like you've got an ambitious wanna-be alpha female right there in your own den & the resident male recognizes that she's got you whipped, & he backs the winner.

"My husband says we shoud sit down and have a talk. We have done this twice before, and it winds up with me apologizing to her in order to gain peace within the household (this girl can hold a grudge for months and make anyone's life miserable)."

so why do you & he let it go on that long?
You or he *can* say,
"enough.
You've heard what we have to say, & that's the way it's going to be."

"She has complete control of every situation"

Yep, there's your problem.

"he said to me that my SD has never liked me"

Why would any husband say something like that to his wife?
does he want you to slink off with your tail between your legs & roll over submissively whenever she gives you the evil eye?

"I am always feeling like I'm treated as the child in the family instead of a respectable adult"

That's what alpha females do.

It sounds like there's a united front being presented all right, but it's by father & daughter instead of husband & wife.

Put your foot down with husband first:

He's her cheerleader & enabler.

As someone said above,
tell him what you're going to tell him,
tell him,
& then tell him what you've told him.

& then you have to show him.

First, to keep it from going off into an argument, I'd tell him that this is not a discussion, it's a statement.

Then I'd tell him that his & his daughter's days using me for their own personal whipping boy are over, that the next time there's an incident of any kind with his daughter, he'd better correct her or I will, & if I have to do it, I'm changing the locks & calling an attorney the next time he goes off to work.

I wouldn't have a talk with her, since talks seem to be her weapon of choice (you apologize to shut her up, so you've rewarded her for hanging in there & badgering you into exhaustion).

Warn her father that the next time she dares to "correct" your behavior, the next time I hear "f###" or "bullsh!!" or any such language out of her mouth, I'm throwing her out the door.

no "do you want to go to your mother's?", just throwing her out & tossing her purse out after her & locking the door.

If he wants to "have a talk" with her to caution her not to behave in a way that'll get her tossed out, that's between him & her.

Do not use her for babysitting any more, it gives her the chance to take on the alpha female role with your children.

Spend the money for a sitter.

You have 2 little ones to raise, & they need a strong healthy mother.

You can't afford to let yourself be beaten into submission.

I wish you the best.

I am a little unclear on how the SD heard the comment but the younger children did not, when olduvai was on the same floor as the children.

This all could have been avoided with a simple apology from olduvai for lashing out verbally in anger. If you say something you don't mean when you are angry and you hurt someone's feelings, an apology, not defensiveness, is in order.

olduvai was in her own home, fussing about her own husband.
She did not direct any criticism or even any communication at the 18-year-old.

The person who said something she shouldn't have, & who directed it at another person with anger, was the 18-year-old.

Her outburst wasn't about hurt feelings;
it was about making demands, about swearing at her father's wife, about control.

Lots of good advice already, but I'll add one more thought I haven't seen yet.

- OP you muttered a negative comment, just venting.
- Then SD muttered a negative comment in response, also just venting.

Had you ignored her comment and walked away, things wouldn't have escalated. Or, had you simply said "Sorry - I'm just annoyed with your dad right now and tired from the kids. Please don't make it worse with an attitude." and walked away -- again, things wouldn't have escalated.

My point is that it takes two people to have a fight, and that you stooped down to her level and wallowed around in it for a while. I'm not saying you should put up with all sorts of garbage and ill-treatment. There has to be a point where you step in and issue a correction -- but then don't hang around and debate it. Issue a correction and walk away. Teenagers get sullen. Sometimes they pout and stomp around for days. But if you address the issue once - end it - then go on as normal, the problem is the teen's, not the family's.

I'm curious also as to what part of your remark she found so offensive -- I'm thinking it may not have been the 'home late' aspect, but rather the 'doesn't care about the little kids' comment -- which she probably finds unbelievably ridiculous. Pre-schoolers take huge amounts of time and attention, and most SDs would be very jealous or resentful of losing that much of Daddy's time, and with a divorce and much-younger-woman situation thrown in...

Thank you so much everybody for your imput. Yes, I guess I could have diffused the situation by walking away (which I wound up doing after the fight began to go into a yelling match) and of course I got, "yeah, just walk away like you always do." I am quick tempered (something I am not proud of) but I'm also very loving, caring and very involved in all of my sk & bk's lives.
I'm still at a hault with how to talk with my husband about what he said in re of my sd and my relationship, I've just let it go (obviously haven't let it go in my heart).
I hear what people are saying about her being an adult and discipline is not going to happen now if it hasn't happened before, yet I can't help feel that can't be possible. Apparently I still need discipline in my life at age 34, why doesn't she at age 18?
I have given up discussing this any further with my husband.(Still getting the abbreviated lingo down...what is an OP, DH, exactly?) So now I am at a stand off. I will not budge on making contact with my SD as much as I truly want to, and if I did, she has already laid the ground rules down for having a discussion.
Last family "talk" I was informed by her that I was no longer allowed to write her a note or letter to address feelings, that it had to be face to face. She knows that I better diffuse and explain myself in writing than oral. When I explained that to her she told me too bad and my husband just sat there nodding his head so to say.
So, my alpha SD shall get the silent treatment from me until she approaches me on the subject. How immature I feel.
I'm pondering the thought of calling her BM. Any thoughts on this?
Thank you everybody again for your imput, critically or sympathically.
-O

"she has already laid the ground rules down for having a discussion."

"Last family "talk" I was informed by her that I was no longer allowed to write her a note or letter to address feelings, that it had to be face to face. She knows that I better diffuse and explain myself in writing than oral. When I explained that to her she told me too bad and my husband just sat there nodding his head so to say."

talk about the tail wagging the dog;
*how* did this bloodless takeover happen?

doesn't matter, I guess:
the thing is, nobody is going to give you back the power that this girl has usurped.

You have to just take it & let her & her dad cope with it.

starting with, you & hubs make the rules, & he informs her what they are.

If she refuses to abide by the rules, she has to leave.

& while I understand that fathers are often afraid that their little princesses will stamp their little feet & refuse to visit daddy if daddy crosses them...

enough is enough.

There's a line beyond which princesses become shrews, accomodation becomes enabling, & displays of childish pique becomes insulting, abusive, & intolerable.

Laying down the rules & using the word "f###" would have gotten this girl tossed out of my house on her ear, & my husband could darn well address me if he had any problems with it.

You, as a human being, have a right to resolve problems in a way most comfortable for you. If you need to write your feelings in a letter, you go right ahead. Don't let SD tell you how you have to communicate. No one has that right. If she wants to talk face to face after reading the letter because that is how she prefers to resolve conflict, then she should be given that opportunity as well. But, don't allow yourself to be pushed around. And it is HIGH time you had a talk with DH about his behavior. Like I told my DH after our last blow up, you can say anything you want to me in the privacy of our bedroom and I will listen and do my best to be receptive. But, don't you dare ever, ever break ranks in front of our kids...and I mean step or bio (we have 1 child together). That is a basic parenting rule and he saw I was serious as a heart attack. Whatever threats you make to DH about what the consequences will be if he does it again, you better be ready to follow through with. He needs to learn fast that his behavior is intolerable. I would not call BM...that is inviting her into your marriage and home, and you need to learn to stand up for yourself on your own accord.

Just curious -- what would you say to BM if you called her?

I know others have suggested this, but have you considered counseling? I am not saying this is the case, but if your letters and emails are attacking and not explanatory, maybe you could use counselor as go between -- send her email, and have her dscuss with SD? Just a thoguth

Sylvia tells it like it is!

In a nutshell, this young girl has 'taken' the power in this relationship and one or both of the adults needs to take it back. (She's not going to hand it over...)

As a close girlfriend of mine explains: "You've got to pee on your trees!"
In other words, mark your territory, set your limits, and communicate to others in your pack where those limits are.

OK sweeby ... that's now my favorite saying EVER ...

"You've got to pee on your trees!"

I'm going to remember that one.

olduvai,

You've gotten some great advice and I think Sylvia has really hit the nail on the head. You are dealing with an alpha female and she is drawing the line.

I have an alpha female adult SD who is 30. In my situation, DH enabled his adult daughter's behavior because he did not want to "rock the boat" with her.

Sweeby's right. Your SD has taken over the power and she is not going to hand it over easily. I would not call BM. Even if the two of you are on friendly terms, she's not going to like hearing anything that is remotely critical of her daughter.

The person you need to have a heart-to-heart with is DH. He is a big part of the problem because he is empowering SD to behave this way. Perhaps counseling with your husband would help.

My husband and I did go to a counselor four years ago due to problems caused by his oldest daughter. The counselor told him that he needed to set firm boundaries with her. He said he would, but he didn't. He couldn't.

After several more years and many ugly episodes with her, I finally put my foot down with him - very, very firmly. So far, it is working and she is no longer in "charge" of my life.

Best wishes,
June

Yep, the consensus is that sylvia has nailed this one again!

Just to help out: DH means Dear Husband, or as I always say, whatever "D" word you intend for your husband at that moment.

I believe OP is original poster?

All the best,
Dana