I would definately take the two year old being up by himself in the mornings very seriously...I will tell you a story this happened in my very own (small) home town just last year......
Dad gets up to go to work at 6 am, dad forgets to lock the front door and Mom is still aslep...2 year old beautiful baby boy managed to get the front door of the apartment open while mom slept..... The babies crumpled body was found by a passer by a few blocks away who thought he was a baby doll someone had thrown on the street.....(mom still had no idea baby was gone) the person who hit the little boy saw the story on the news and went to the police station to let them know she thought it was her who hit him...she said she felt a "bump" going down the road that morning and thought she had hit a dog or something but looked back and didn't see anything so she kept going.....
Now two families in ruins and everyone pointing fingers...I think of that little boy often...

That is so scary, and that easily could have happened to my fiance's little boy. You see, he escaped the house, ran up the street, and was found at a busy intersection with a lot of traffic(right in front of the college). Thankfully, 2 college kids got out of there car and kept him at the corner to try to figure out what to do. I guess BM happened to notice he was gone early enough that she ran up while those students still had him at the corner. Somehow, this was not scary enough to them, because he was able to escape AGAIN, but was only able to get past the driveway. 6yo daughter was unfairly yelled at about this - like it's HER job! I would not be surprised if there were other instances that Dad doesn't know about.

When we were there for a visit on the 16th, BM's mom told us that she awoke to Little Boy putting an 18-pack of eggs in her hand. She got up to put it back in the fridge, and discovered that everything in the fridge was pulled out and ALL over the floor.

Another time, he poured out a bottle of chocolate syrup.

Another time, he poured out a bottle of dish soap and got it in his eyes.

They are not watching him, and it makes us both livid.

Thankfully, the daughter is really good on her own in the morning or will just sleep in, too. But Little one always gets up at 6 or 7. Which means BM's a$$ needs to be up, too! You don't sleep when your kids are up, period! Unless someone reliable is there with them. And her parents aren't.

Sorry, I get SO angry about this.

Quick laptop story - BM has gone for the past several months without a job, even while taking the summer off from school. They have been living on CS, about $550 a month. When Bm got her tax return, she didn't get her car tags up to date or buy the kids school clothes. She spent $1000 on a laptop and accessories for it. Priorities are ASKEW.

She actually screamed bloody murder at my BF for not paying up to build a fence around her parents' property. THAT was her solution for stopping Little one from escaping! Not actual parenting or anything.

I could write a book.

Is it possible she does not hear him get up? I would suggest she puts a baby monitor in his room and the base in hers so she can hear him. Also put a baby gate in his doorway of his room so he does not get out without her letting him out. And if she is a heavier sleeper she also needs to have an alarm clock set for the time he usually gets up so she gets up as well.

Definately copy and print her blog and give it to your lawyer! And write dates you found out about any of the other stories. Document everything!

Oh yes, it's absolutely possible. It's not unusual for my fiance to call about coming to ssee the kids, and someone else will answer because BM is still asleep at freaking Noon. Little one can be heard screaming his head off in the background and BM is sleeping right through it all. Meanwhile, she'll have posts in her favorite forums that are timestamped at like 4am.

Like I said, I'm not judging her activities, I've been known to stay up late on the 'net. But if I were going to do that, I'd do that with the knowledge that my butt was going to have to get up at 6am. Which means I probably wouldn't be posting at 4am. I NEED my sleep.

They used to actually lock this kid into the bedroom he slept in so that he couldn't leave his room. I don't feel good about that arrangement, either. But they've rearranged the house now so he shares a room with his sister. All 5 of them live in a a 2-room house. The only person with her own bedroom is BM. Her parents sent up their bed in the DINING ROOM where are the windows are. :(

By the way, he's bascially too smart and too strong for baby gates. They've tried that. He needs a wrought iron bedroom door! LOL. Really though - he just needs to be supervised. he needs discipline, too, but she always uses his size as an excuse as to why she can't control him.

It's very likely, with school and preschool starting this past Monday, that BM will be up a lot earlier now because she has to take them to school. But still, this is just ridiculous. They live in filth and just... so many things about their quality of life could be different. And should.

We document and save EVERYTHING we find now, because it has all become relevant to the situation in whatever way.

WOW that is just terrible and sad. Keep recording everything!!

Why did she not get into some trouble with DFS when the kid got into the Tylenol???

Why is the Tylenol where a 2 year old can get into it!!!! That is some poor parenting.

Why is it your bf's responsibility to fence their property?

I bet you could write a book, but instead keep recording all of her antics!!

Someone should report this woman before that baby is hurt.

I don't know; I suppose the hospital staff didn't find it worthy of reporting. After all, most people understand that sometimes, with kids, stuff happens. They wouldn't realize that the supervision thing is a more constant problem. They were anonymously reported when he wound up at the intersection, but nothing was done about it. Maybe a call from BF would help, but we're afriad of what might happen to the kids. He feels better trying to save the $$ to go straight to a lawyer. We don't know what else to do, really.

things happen but if it happens often enough it sounds more like child neglect and maybe your BF has to start collecting evidence to file for primary custody.

In your other post, you indicated your fiance was divorced for two years, the two of you had been together 1.5 years and he had a three year-old and seven year-old. In this post you stated his son is two years-old.

Whichever it is, it sounds like BM is depressed (living at home with parents, up all night and sleeping late, neglecting kids) and it sounds like she is angry as well. Very angry. Perhaps over the timing of the divorce and birth of the youngest child? Or perhaps she is just wired that way.

I think at this point, you are in fairly deep and it is important for you to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish. You can possibly get proof to show she is not fit as a mother, but the judge will also likely take into consideration the abuse allegations against your future dh.

Are you really certain that there isn't some truth to what she has alleged? I don't know your future dh so I am in no way saying he did or didn't do it, but men don't always tell the truth. And of course, women lie, too. How do you know for certain who is telling the truth?

To be really honest, the situation you have described is so negative, from the anger and hostility of BM down to the way your future dh handles it when he's upset that I think you may be signing up for a lifetime of extreme frustration that will take a toll on you.

I think the only way you could be happy long-term in this situation is if you are able to disengage your emotions and let him handle his problems himself. You aren't married yet and this point in time in your lives as a couple is probably as good as it is going to get.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best.

ditto as to june, also the name "love conquers" might indicate an overly optimistic view. LC, have you spoken to your mother about this??

Reading the story abotu the little boy just freaked me out! I'm in tears!
I know alot of times people forget to lock things etc..etc..but at that age you would think he was more careful.
I'm sorry..my son is almost 3 and when he was at the age of walking and running, i put protective door handles that he cannot turn. HECK even adults in my house have trouble openign the doors now. i did it for safety because of the staircase...one tumble and bones would be broken for sure! I even wrapped both my balconies with plastic mesh for safety.
I remember as a child i had slipped underneath mine . I was hanging by my neck! I must have been 3 or so..my twin held onto my shirt and my older brother got underneath my feet with his shoulders to lift me enough to breath. A passer by ran to help me. My mother was inthe kitchen on the other side of the house and my father was at work.
So things do happen but you know...there are now so many safety features for parents to educate themselves to at least cut down these accidents..
Its horrible.....I also heard this morning on the news that a 5 year old girl was crushed by a tractor her father was driving. She slipped off of it when he put it into gear. WHat the HECK was a little girl doing on top of that!!? If protected my own son from stupidities from my own husband.
Some people are just irresponsible or just plain too stupid to think!
I hope your BF gets custody...that little boy is lucky to survive poisoning such as that. But be prepared for a bumpy road. BM sounds like a piece of work but your bf has to step to the plate and fast.
i also have locks on all the med cabinets in my house and a toilet lock...i've heard toddlers can drown in them...
This biomom really sounds irresponsible and her parents....what do they do? just sit and watch???

....This child is only 2, your BF has been divorced for 2 years but prior to divorce separated about a year (your past posts). So it must be that little boy was conceived during the separation and born at the same time divorce happened? So at what (according to BM, we don't know if it trully happened) point could BF abuse his son if his son wasn't even born. Or if he was born parent were separated anyways.

You say he is 2 but in your previous post in July it says he is 3. why was he 3 in July but is 2 in August? It would make more sense the other way.

Well now I worry that if you collect evidence that she is a neglectful mother CPS would take kids away but BF won't get them (abuse allegations), so who is going to get the kids? Foster parents? I mean the whole situation is ugly.

Good suggestion kkny about talking to one's mother. I so agree. or mother-like figure (grandma would be OK too) to get a good perspective.

If I can be "accused" of neglect for limiting phone calls .... you bet child services will look into mom.... if your bf sits back and does nothing he can be held accountable as well.

Just to clarify, I have said before that they are ages 3 and 7. I was generalizing. The young one turns 3 in about a week and the daughter turns 7 in September. BM left when Little one was 4-5 months old. They finally divorced 6-7 months after that.

It's my conclusion, and yes I understand it's a BIG decision to make, is that my fiance did not abuse the son. I would not be with him if I believed he did, even a little bit.

For one, much of the accusation was based around the son having a black eye (she still brings this up on forums when she tells everyone her "harrowing story"). BUT - one of her journal entries described exactly how he got the black eye - the baby did it himself by accident, and she saw him do it. And he STILL does that thing where he throws his head around in all directions when he's throwing a fit, so I know her description of how it happened has to be accurate. She wrote that he also enjoyed headbutting his dad in the forehead, and that he had sort of a constant bruise from that sometimes, too.

The actions and character of the BM, in addition to many things she's written, leads me to no other conclusion but that accusing him of such a thing would ensure that she held control over the children and thus the entire divorce situation, and she KNEW it. She's never said it in so many words about herself, but I've seen her write advice to other moms considering divorce, and how to make sure they're careful to maintain control.

Not to mention, many times when we find a new picture of the son or daughter online, my fiance cries because he so wants to be with them. "How could she ever think that I'd hit him," he says. I know - that might sound kind of sappy, but he does often cry when he sees their photos.

BM often writes about how my fiance was a model dad to her daughter. It would have been the same for his son, if she'd not taken him away as an infant.He adores his children, and gets closer and closer to the son as he gets older and is able to interact more with Dad.

As far as running through all this with my mother, I'm afraid she was a lot like BM. I love her, but part of me is still angry with her. Maybe that's why I have such a chip on my shoulder about the way they're neglected. Common sense guides me that my mom would not be the one to ask about this. Although my mom would understand nad I think she'd just agree with me that BM is nutso.

My own situtation growing up is the reason I don't yet have my own children - I've always taken the role of parenting VERY seriously. Children will come first, whether they're mine or not. Since my fiance's kids are going through so much, it would likely be a couple of years before we consider having children of our own. They were here first. I'm not dating a man, but a family.

It's this part of me that has me so up in arms about thier situation. I'm really not trying to make myself look good, so I'm sorry if I come off that way. This is just how I feel. Childhood has so much to do with who we are and who we become.

CPS came and interviewed my fiance about the abuse allegation. He told them the truth -

He worked 2 jobs because BM wouldn't consider getting a job. Fiance also has an eye problem so he can't drive. He walked 7 miles a day between his 2 jobs. At one point he had 3 jobs. When he got home, the house was a mess, no one made sure he had any dinner, and the kids would often get passed off to him upon his arriving at home so that BM could go back to bed! He was exhausted, they had no sex life for hte last 2 years, etc. He was VERY unhappy to say the least.

There was a lot of yelling and arguing between them. That's the extent of anything that could be construed as abuse, period. Well I take that back. SHE once hit him as hard as she could, in the jaw. It knocked his earrings out. She wrote about that once. He says he never hit her. She has written the same. So I know he tells me the truth.

Yes, she is angry. She's made of anger. She is a huge VICTIM who believes everyone owes her everything.

Someone asked about her parents and whether they do anything. Do they just sit and watch? Yes, basically. Her mother is very... big and not very mobile (although she's the only person who's been totally nice to fiance and I). The Little One was under her watch the 2nd time he escaped, and the time when he ran out into a busy street - she couldn't catch him. BM's dad is dying of AIDS. They sit around and smoke and play solitaire on the computer. That's about it. Right now BM's mom has injured rib muscles and can't do much of anything. BM's parents aren't reliable to watch the kids, but in some ways it's not their fault. BM is completely sponging off of them, and I feel, taking advantage.

Love, based on what you've told us, no one would deny the mother is not doing a good job parenting. Why I recommended you talk to your mother is more along the lines of what are YOU getting into. Forget what a terrible person the child's mother may be, what life do you see for yourself? Do you think she is just going to dissapper off the face of the earth?

kkny,

I've thought about this a lot. I know that BM will always be in the picture. Before Fiance (what's the abreviation for that?) moved in with me, she was FINE. Even with me there, he got to see his kids every other weekend, with no supervision, despite not having legal rights to do so. She let him have them because it was convenient for her. She went back to college and was dating some guys off and on. She didn't mind my being involved. I took them places with their dad and spent money on them if they needed it (and sometimes of course just to do fun things).

I think jealousy set in when she realized that he was seriously moving on with his life. Then everything became a control struggle. She still swears that we were sleeping naked with the kids, etc. YEAH, RIGHT. She didn't care enough to actually ask anyone what happened, she just made up things and decided to go with it.

I've always felt like she was afraid and jealous of me, while simultaneously actually liking me. I think she realizes deep down that she's being a lazy a$$ and I probably seem like a threat to her. Although I had no intentions whatsoever of stepping on anyone's toes. Now I feel like I have to help my fiance do SOMETHING. I love him. It may not be fair to me, but neither is it fair to drop him because of the actions of other people. He can't help it if she's ridiculous. Besides, her behavior is only going to end up helping him.

We are not rushing into marriage. Right now the plan is for him to move closer to the kids, without me. I'll follow when I can. My job is wanting to send me to that area, anyway.

He has to do whatever will look favorbale to a judge, and I'm going to help him in any way I can. I can stay with my mom or get a roommate if I need to.

I witnessed for a neighbor in a custody case and the judge ordered the father and his girl friend not to smoke in the car or in the home with the children or he would grant full custody to the mother.

Hi Stargazzer, I've read about similar things happening. Fiance is hoping for the same outcome. Again, even if he doesn't get custody of them, he just wants to protect them. He knows it's a long shot because he's not the mother, and then there were the accusations that BM made. But he's still going to to try. At the very least, he deserves scheduled, unsupervised visits with them. The thing with all of them smoking in the house drives us CRAZY. Literally the last time we were there, his daughter is sitting next to grandpa, and he blew a cloud of smoke that just sat right in her face. It was hard to keep quiet, but Fiance is not in a position where he can say anything. BM would just make things harder. As it is, Fiance will just keep calling till someone picks up. And if he gets her, they speak breifly and she hangs up on him.

We are fortunate to get to go to Little One's birthday party tomorrow. I'm actually very surprised that we know anything about it, let alone are invited. I hope they can knock off the smoking during the party, after all, OTHER peoples' kids will be there. *eyeroll*

what a mess. you sound seriosuly concerned about children's well-being. you seem such a ncie person. It is obvious you love your fiancee but what i see in the future for you is kids getting older and more difficult (and less supervised), BM getting crazier, husband cannot drive so you drive everywhere etc. Unless he and you get full custody and BM dissapears (we don't want that either, right?) it will be this way, you see what you get.

I don't know if you are ready to spend your life this way worrying days and nights...It sounds tough. I don't know how old you are but life time of worries don't sound much fun. sorry to sound so straightforward but I suggest you think very hard if that's what you want.

just wonder by the way what kind of illness does he have and could it be treatable. I assume he still is young and life time not driving is not a picnic either.

Hi finedreams, that's kind of you to say!

Fiance is 29 and I'm 30. We met in college but never dated, then he married his ex when he was very young. I've been married before, too, but ex and I don't have any kids.

Fiance was born premature and he can see OKAY but his vision problem isn't treatable - yet. We've checked. Even if we had all the money in the world, there's not a procedure to fix it. :( Yes, it sometimes makes life harder. It's rough on me sometimes, and Fiance HATES to be a burden. But again this is all stuff I knew when I met him.

There are some solutions, though. We're hoping that when he moves back to the area, he can ride the bus to work, etc. I'm sure he misses his independence (and I won't lie, I do, too).

I think that it can't hurt for him to try to custody of his children. I believe he is the better parent. Of course I could be a little biased, there. ;) We will see what happens. I want to get married and get on with life but I won't rush into it over the kids. I do love them very much but I've seen what rushing can lead to. Been there, done that. I would like to see Fiance go through court, and I will keep reevaluating the situation for myself as we go through that. I'm just too scared to do anything but wait right now. But I'm not ready at all to end this relationship.

I wonder if you have thought this through?

A custody case, that is contested, is likely to cost your fiance about 20k or more in legal fees, out of his own pocket. Custody cases are not cheap.

If it were clear cut, then maybe it would be worth it. But, as you are aware, its a long shot, especially since your fiance did not vigorously defend himself against the abuse allegations made previously, w hich resulted in him having supervised visits only. On top of that, absent clear evidence of abuse from mom, a lot of judges still follow the tender years doctrine. Its very rare for a child under the age of five to be placed with Dad, unless mom has a severe mental illness, or a criminal record. I hesitate to add that especially when dad has a history of abuse ( in the eyes of the court), its going to be a tough row to hoe.

I think you are most likely not going to win. Its going to cost a LOT Of money, and its going to create an unabelievable amount of hostility and animosity between BM and your fiance. It will make the next several years even more difficult. If your fiance is having trouble getting visits, thats one thing. Winning custody is a whole other ball game.

Think hard before you do it, th ats all. Its not going to be easy, and it will be expensive.

I was wondering why he has only scheduled and supervised visits with the kids. Usually that is because a parent has made a serious mistake. Also what time does the BIO mom put them to bed? My sister had 3 steps and she put them to bed at 6PM, they woke up at 3 or 4 in the morning ready to eat and play. They would dump everything in the kitchen looking for something to eat. I think that was borderline abuse.

OP, we've been there done that. After reading all the posts, your fiance's ex sounds a lot like my husbands ex. She was nice as can be and as we got more serious, she became unglued. I guess she was just waiting for our relationship to run it's course and hoping I was a temporary thing. I think she enjoyed him being single because, like so many men out there, he'd go along with much of what she said, just to keep peace. They too did not have an order and had never been to court. He filed for custody and they had a full blown custody battle (more like war) after his ex kept making threats to cut him off from his daughter. During the custody case, we found out his ex was leading a somewhat double life. He found out she partied almost every weekend and placing ads on craigslist to solicit other couples and swingers. His daughter revealed in counseling that she'd witnessed mom having sex in the same room they shared in grandma's house. He also found out that her first husband had said she told him she had a cocaine addiction and that she was an alcoholic & neglected her older daughter. When he found out she was doing all these things around their daughter, it began to explain some of the child's strange behavior. He was sure that the court would care and do something and he felt he was the better parent.

Fast forward seven months, he paid the attorney over $12,000 and still owes over $3,000. The case had a trial and the Judge ruled that they should share 50/50. That is the same arrangement they had to begin with and it cost him $15,000.

The only reason he has primary physical custody now is his ex met a guy two weeks after the trial and moved 3 hours away. She was so hot for this guy that she didn't tell us or anyone she was moving until she was moved. She didn't ask to take her daughter, she basically told my husband that he can have her. The emotional changes that his daughter has gone through over what her mom has done have been dramatic. She isn't the same little girl and it's been a very tough, difficult road for all of us. My husband is still convinced that his daughter is better off with us but his daughter resists (and perhaps resents) us because she wants to be with her mother. Her mother will tell her she wants her too but we won't allow it, which only makes his daughter resent us more. Meanwhile, his ex doesn't REALLY want her daughter. She could take him to court but hasn't. She has full custody of her older daughter but that one still lives with grandma.

I guess my point is that you may think you want custody but you need to really think long term for YOUR life. I agree with KKNY and while you may not be ready to leave this relationship, you cannot save or fix someone else's mess. I spent seven years in a previous relationship, raising his three kids... until I realized that he was a terrible father. Their mother was on drugs and had left when the kids were all small and I thought I could step in and save them... be the mom they deserved. I had the illusion that we could be a family and that's all it was, an illusion.

I love my husband and his daughter and even though it's very tough sometimes and I get frustrated, I made the decision to marry him, knowing how rough the road can get. We've hit some pretty big potholes in the two years we've been married and if I could go back, knowing what I know now about his ex, I don't know if I'd do it again. He's wonderful about dealing with her, but she's constantly adding drama and turmoil to our life. If he wasn't so wonderful about dealing with her and being supportive of me, I know I wouldn't do it again.

Hi kathline,

Fiance does not have a "history" of abuse. He was interviewed by CPS/DHS and no case was opened because the "evidence did not support the allegation".

Further (now that I'm home and I have papers and dates in front of me - I probably got some dates wrong before), BM and kids moved out near the end of 3/06 and she didn't try to push these accusations until 8/06. Hmmmm. Fiance received his letter from DHS regarding the end of that crap, dated 9/06. Divorce went through in 11/06. Not long after this, she's bringing them over for the weekend. Doesn't add up... not something I'd be doing if I though my ex was abusing my kids!

I know it's a long shot, but considering these facts, plus the fact that the blog she wrote about seeing her son give himself a black eye was written 10 days before she moved out, I think there is a chance, however slight, that a judge might wonder if she was up to no good. Maybe he can never prove it, but BM *slandered* him, pure and simple. We all know that it's not uncommon for abuse allegations to go up in the middle of a nasty seperation/divorce.

I know it won't be easy, and like I said before, fiance is more more concerned about the welfare of his kids and more interested in having unsupervised visitation than just getting full custody of them. This isn't about winning, or taking them away. But how many more close calls have to happen? Does he have to lose his son before anyone will listen? Do the kids have to get asthma?

stargazzer,

I'm not sure how she managed to get supervised visitation on the decree. DHS said he hadn't done anything wrong. Fiance can't remember ever being served his papers so he didn't know when or where to show up to fight it. His lawyer was a SHMUCK who advised him to save his money on filing and just let BM file. My guess is since fiance didn't have a lot of money, the atty didn't give a rat's about his situation. Fiance got his divorce decree from the courthouse (BM refused to provide him a copy). There are no signatures except the judge's. I don't know how that works. BM has screamed at fiance about the "rules" and says that fiance had signed papers, but refuses to provide him with copies. I guess our next step is to go to the courthouse in person and see what all they can find. Fiance was a wreck during this period, and I think it all happened to fast. I don't even think he knew what any of the stipulations were before everythinf was finalized. We'll have to do some digging to piece it all together. I'm as confused as you are on that. By the way, the visits aren't scheduled. The divorce decree is actually pretty vague, other than that they say he has to visit them at BM's parents' house - but only UNTIL he completes a parenting class and anger management class - which he has done. We just need money for the lawyer. That, and it says he has to carry health coverage on the kids. That's it! We're both confused. But we'll have some time soon to investigate.

Love,

what I am trying to point out is that because your fiance did not fight the allegations, his visits are ordered supervised. That happens in abuse cases. SHe made the allegations, and unfortunately your fiance didnt fight back. Having to take anger management is a usual condition to removing the supervision clause, and indicates the supervision clause is there because of the abuse allegations.

He may not have been abusive, but the courts believe he was, therefore they ordered supervision/

I dont think you have any real hope of gaining custody

Kathline, custody is not the main objective here. His papers say he has supervised visitation UNTIL he meets those requirements. So getting his visitation rights - that's step one. If BM still doesn't supervise the children, and if everyone still continues to smoke in the house and in the car, we'll go from there. As pseudo mom pointed out, he can't just *not* try to at least fight about those things. The court needs to see that someone is concerned about these issues.

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply, I was getting to the shorter posts first.

Your story sounds a bit like mine. Especially the beginning.

No offense, but it kinda makes me want to give up. UGH I hate vindictive exes. This whole situation is unfair to everyone else involved.

I'm sorry you had to go through all that. :(

Is BM on drugs or 16 sleeping til noon? She doesn't need a baby monitor to hear the children in a 2 room house and especially if she is sleeping all morning. She has to know the children will wake up and need to be fed and attended to. I would report every incident to DHS/CPS and show them her blogs, as well. Do it anonymously if you have to. All emergency room incidents involving children that are even the slightest bit suspicious are reported. Especially when the children are unsupervised and medications are involved. I can't believe no one did anything. That is their job and obligation. I would investigate with the local hospitals to see how many actual visits they have made to see if there are other events you are not aware of. It may be a difficult long struggle but those kids deserve someone to fight for their safety. I hope they get it. Good luck!

Hi Lane,

she's just apathetic. She assumes "eh, my parents will take care of it." Problem is, her parents don't get up early either. And right now her mom is injured and in no position to take care of kids.

I'm not sure if anyone reported the incident(s) or not. They (BM and grandparents) would never tell us about it to begin with, because they know how bad that looks. They KNOW this was negligent. We only know that it happened because of her blog. They told us about the other stuff he gets into - fridge, making messes, ruining computers, ruining the cell phones (he hairsprayed them) - but not this, for obvious reasons.

Monday fiance called to see how the first day of school went (Little One started preschool, daughter went to 1st grade), and the conversation, after he called 8 times and got no answer, went something like this:

Him: How was his 1st day? Did he do well?

Her: Fine.

Him: Well, was his class pretty big?

Her: Not really.

Him: ....oookayyy.... welllll... I guess we'll see you in a few days then... (for bday party tomorrow)

Her: *click*

Does anyone think that their dad could call the hospital and get any information out of them??

p.s: bedtime for the kids is usually about 8pm.

didn't you mention he pays for their health insurance or did I read that about someone else? Because if he does, he can call insurance company and find out about all the benefits used. And if there are more dates and hospital visits you are unaware of then have him call medical records and request copies of the visits. Being the father I would think he would be entitled to have them.

On a different thread, the fact that you shouldn't believe everything a guy says, even if it is your fiance, was discussed. One of the many things one should doubt is:

"they had no sex life for hte last 2 years, etc."

Especially when they managed to have a baby during this period.

Yeah, I noticed that, too. How did that happen?

Ok, so from reading internet postings by biomom you just absolutely know that she doesn't get up with her kids and all of this other personal information? I mean, really, you know this?

I find it very hard to believe that anyone would post on a blog they don't get up with their kids on a regular basis. So just exactly where are you getting this personal home information from?

I even find it harder to believe that after 11/06 when everything for the divorce and subsequent divorce proceedings went through that your fiance hasn't managed to fulfill his duties to get unsurpervised visitation as of 8/08, but he will cry about seeing a picture of his kids?

And don't think that most people reading this didn't understand your motivation by posting the different age gap.

I could go on blowing holes in this story but I will refrain from that. If you really think court is going to change anything, well just ask me to continue blowing holes...swiss cheese is my favorite anyway.

I strongly suggest you taking some of the more helpful advice here from some seasoned posters. I maybe harsh and not nice, but trust me, I'm a whole lot nicer than a judge or an opposing an attorney.

You're getting snowed sweetie.

A man that has only his childrens best interests at heart would convienently forget to challenge supervised visitation. Wouldn't let the requirements for qualifying for unsupervised visitation since 11/06. And what else? A man that is truly concerned with his children in such a dire situation as his wouldn't have time or the inclination to meet a woman to settle down with.

You can fight this battle that is not yours or you can continue fighting a battle that only a money grubbing attorney will take. Your choice and probably your money as well.

If he was not abusive, why exactly did his wife leave him, especially while she was a SAHM with a small baby. Did she have a sudden burning desire to share a two bedroom home with her parents?

I, too, do not understand why it is taking him so long to complete a parenting class. If you are willing to drive him hours to see his kids, wouldn't you also be willing to drive him to whatever classes he needed to attend?

Love,

I think you are getting snowed as well. There are a lot of things that you do not know for a fact and your fiance doesn't seem to be able to provide the answers to clear up the confusion.

He can't be that confused about how the supervised visitation happened and why the divorce decree is so vague. Or why his ex said he abused the boy. He certainly didn't fight very hard to defend himself when all of this occurred.

There is no question the children are in a bad situation. They are living in a two room house, they have an apathetic mother, a grandfather who is dying from AIDS. How did that happen? The whole picture is just very, very ugly.

You are still a very young woman. You are only 30 years old. You can continue to fight someone else's battles and expend your precious energy trying to make this situation "right", but I don't think it will ever be right.

If the kids are being neglected, that's where social services comes in. Your young man has an incredible amount of baggage. And it is only going to get worse. Why do you have to be the solution to his problems?

Think about yourself. There are still plenty of young men in your age group who have never been married. You could start a fresh life with someone who has a lot on the ball and bypass this mess that you did not create and that you will never be able to fix.

Please do not take this the wrong way. I made a mistake myself and I was much older than you when I did it. I know the "power" of being in love and the tendency a person in love has to idealize their beloved. My ex snowed me very well and the things that didn't add up - I just filled in the blanks.

I walked into a situation that included incredible hostility from an adult stepdaughter and I "thought" she just had a bad personality. When the truth came out six years later (after dreading holidays, etc.), the confusion about her hostility lifted. Dad was the problem.

As TOS pointed out, "If he was not abusive, why exactly did his wife leave him, especially while she was a SAHM with a small baby. Did she have a sudden burning desire to share a two bedroom home with her parents?" I don't think so.

From my experience, a SAHM with an infant would never leave a good husband. I think the answer to all of your questions lies in the truth about why she left.

Wowwwwww. I leave for one day to go to a birthday party and I suddenly have "motivations". What age gap are you referring to, nivea? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

First off - they didn't have a sex life anymore EXCEPT when she decided she wanted another baby. Millions of people go right ahead and have babies with significant others that they aren't happy with. People often (mistakenly) think that having kids will solve their relationship troubles. I'm sorry that I wasn't specific enough to get into that yet. I'm not sure why anyone would find such a poor decision "hard to believe," as often as people do that. Fiance was unhappy, too. But he had no intentions of ever leaving his family. He went along with her wishes. Not unheard of, by any stretch.

Yikes. I am exhausted as I've spent the entire day in his ex's house while her parents filled my sinuses with smoke. I will be back to address the rest of the "holes" in my story, as you put it.

Or maybe not, come to think of it.

I came here for help and because I needed to vent with people who've all been through this crap before. I've never dated a man with kids before. I have nothing to gain by making sh*t up.

I want to thank those who have listened and been supportive so far, even the ones who've said things that they know I didn't want to hear, in the spirit of wanting to help me.

"When he got home, the house was a mess, no one made sure he had any dinner, and the kids would often get passed off to him upon his arriving at home so that BM could go back to bed!"

I realize that you have never had any children, but most mothers of young infants could identify with this. The boy sounds like a "spirited" child - so it is likely that he was a high need infant. Taking care of a high need infant and a preschooler is a full-time job. Many was the day when I had a young baby and it was six o'clock in the evening and I felt like I had accomplished nothing. Not all babies read the instruction manual and take a couple of two hour naps during the day, nurse for a while, and coo happily in their baby seats. Some babies are only happy when they are in their parents' arms, nurse every hour, and wake up as soon as they are put down. If the boy was a child like this, it was an accomplishment just to feed his sister. I never wanted to go to bed, and luckily my most challenging babies came along after I had older children who could occasionally hold and amuse them, but I can certainly identify with the feeling at the end of the day of needing a little time to oneself while someone else took care of the baby. THen the is the distinct possibility that the boy's mother was suffering from postpartum depression.

No one made sure he had dinner? Well, you know what, he's a grown man, and probably perfectly capable of popping something into the microwave.

When I read the sentence quoted above, my first thought was that perhaps he got home to a messy house, no dinner, and fussy children, and he got angry.

I think the other posters who suggested that you are being given a snow job are correct. I think it is highly unlikely that a SAHM with a spirited infant and a preschooler would leave a decent man, and if he told you she was having an affair, I wouldn't buy that. It doesn't sound like she would have had enough energy to even think about having an affair.

BTW, nearly every guy who cheats on his wife uses that "no sex life" excuse with TOW and with future girlfriends. It is the oldest excuse in the book, and generally completely fabricated.

I'm confused - where did I ever say anything about infidelity? Neither of them has ever accused the other of being unfaithful. Although BM did throw some fits when she thought he was dating a coworker *after she left him*, but they were just hanging out because they both had kids on the weekends. They took their kids to Chuck-E Cheese, etc. That co-worker just got married last week; we went to the wedding.

The BM, long before there were any children, refused to work. It was always on him. He resented this, and she in turn resented him. So they fought. They lost respect for each other long before there were any children, and they should have divorced back then, but they didn't.

They met in college, were engaged in 3 months, and married in 6. They were both trying to escape their own families. I did the same thing when I was 19, except I eventually faced reality and got out when I was 21. They were 18 and 20 when they married.

They never loved each other; they didn't even know each other. They just thought they did. They wanted to believe they did. Their relationship was doomed when it started, just like my first marriage.

They got pregnant with the first baby by accident. They got drunk one New Year's and had sex. He's told me that story, and she's written about it, too. So again, lots of corroboration as with other things he's told me.

It seems like a lot of people are missing things that I've already said. Like the fact that Fiance has already finished his parenting classes, etc. And is now just saving money for an attorney. He just took a 2nd job.

Bottom line, BM has always been lazy and has always had an excuse as to why she couldn't work. This is something that hasn't changed in 10 years (I knew them back when they got married). She has trouble with the idea of working. She literally did nothing all summer. Not even cleaning their house, apparently. Right now her mom can't do it, and it looks even worse than it did before.

I'm sorry... I know that raising kids is a ton of work. My mom was a lot like BM, so guess who raised my siblings? I cooked, I cleaned, I changed them. We got older, and I woke them for school. My paychecks in high school even went to support them. I have 3 younger siblings.

If I were a stay-at-home mom, and my husband was working 2, sometimes 3 jobs, it would just be part of the ROUTINE to get the kids into their car seats and *at least* drive him to work. Period. That is just fracking ridiculous. She knew he couldn't drive when she met him, just like I did. It doesn't get much more lazy and inconsiderate than that. Hell, I remember him walking to work when they were newlyweds and she wasn't working. I asked him about that when we got together, and he said that yes, he'd begged her to step in and help and get a job. She didn't feel like it. And then after two full-time shifts, to ask him to take the kids?! Forget about it. He used to fall asleep holding the baby son, watching the news in a chair when he got home. Not exactly safe - he was beyond exhausted.

Fiance's parents once ooh'd and ahhh'd because when I first met them, I got up and rinsed off my own plate. They were so impressed that their son was dating someone with *basic* manners. I'm serious! All I did was clean up after myself. In all those years, they never saw BM do this. That's just the kind of person she is.

It's not hard to have kids and them use them as Excuse 1 and Excuse 2. No offense, but some of you are giving BM way too much credit. I'm sure she WAS tired, but let's be fair, here.

Ok, so he finally finished the parenting class sometime between July 7th and now. What is his excuse for taking from 11/06 to 8/08 to do so?

From your posts, I suspect you are projecting your feelings about your own mother on the mother of your fiance's children.

You say the mother has always had an excuse for not working. Yet it appears that she has been working and going to school recently:

"BM has gone for the past several months without a job, even while taking the summer off from school. "

You are trying to tell me that a SAHM with an infant, who for whatever reason did not want to work outside the home, who was married to a man who was a wonderful husband and father, in a marriage where there was no infidelity or abuse, decided that it would be a good idea to leave him when their baby was about 7 months old?

How on earth would that benefit her? Oh yeah, she is living high off the hog on $550 a month in child support - not even enough to rent her own apartment, much less feed the children or herself. In my state, that amount of child support would mean your fiance earns a whopping $11 an hour - yet he has at least some college, and is, I believe you said, 30 years old.

Someone is feeding you a line, and it appears you have fallen for it, hook, line, and sinker.

that's why I said at first that things don't end up. how could baby be conceived if people did not even have sex. and yes unless court decides that there was abuse, he would get normal visitations not supervised. on the other note...I am still unclear what eye disease prevents one from driving especially if you say he can see OK. Could it be that he lost his lisence? in any case this story sounds too messed up and I suggest you get out of there.

OP I doubt anyone thinks that you make stuff up, you don't, but he most likely does. If i would accuse my X of child abuse and enforce supervised visitations only, he would raise so much H??ll that you cannot imagine and it is true about any man who even remotely cares about his children and who did not ABUSE them. Even if he did abuse them, he would run to all kind of classes to make it right. I would not want to date a guy who settles for supervised visitations.

TOS baby was even much younger than 7 months when it all happened. If they were divorced for 2 years and separated for about a year prior to that, then this whole thing happened 3 years ago or close to 3. Little boy will be 3 like next month or so. No matter how we count this baby was just born or was very young, could not even be 7 months. so she left right after this boy was born. why? and I also agree that she didn't have to be required to work wiht a newborn baby and a little girl. and even if she is lazy, so what? It does not excuse that he did not fight over abuse allegations, did not attend parenting class in any reasonable time frame, and does not explain why she seprated with a newborn baby. and it is a very clishe kind of story: they never had sex, it was just one time so she could get pregnant. lol typical lie, he lies. they had sex all right.

it is very sad but OP is being lied to.

and i agree with kathline, he will never get custody so it is a waste of money and time. Really, run....

I would go even further and say it doesnt matter if the mother is the world's worst mom, and if dad is now excellent parent material (regardless of his past), this situation is a disaster for love conquers. I am a mom who has never shrunk from my responsibilities -- but I do beleive step relationships are difficult. And this one could be a disaster. I see loveconquers (what a telling name) so intent on proving she can make this happpen, she has lost sight of what is best for her.

don't we women all like to fix disastrous situations....it takes life time of learning that such situations only get worse not better, and love won't fix it...

If baby was only a couple months at best old, I find it hard to believe that baby bumped its eye on something while in the walker.....and for her to leave so soon after that makes me wonder.....

Okay. Believe whatever you want, everyone. This is the only place that a person like myself can even post about these issues without being called a bed-warmer and being told to leave and/or being otherwise insulted. Many of you act as if people don't divorce because they just can't stand each other anymore. IF there was abuse, I could reasonably argue that BM dished it out as much as she accused.

Why did take so long to Fiance to get his requirements finished? Well, please don't think for ONE moment that I haven't been UP his a$$ asking him why he waited so long. I've said all the same things to him that you've said to me.

For one, he never even saw a copy of divorce decree before getting it from the courthouse himself in December. He had to pay them to fax him a copy. BM swears upon all that is holy, that he signed for and received the papers and that she has copies of his signature(s), but then she refuses to produce them for him. This is usually something she brings up when she wants extra money from him (the last time, it was over the fence that she wanted him to pay for).

December '07 is when he learned the specifics of what was required of him. And he's finished those requirements. He was already paying his child support and he kept the same job so the kids were already staying covered for health insurance.

Why didn't he do something LEGALLY back then? Well, I completely agree it wasn't smart of him to be so ignorant of his situation. She left him and took his kids without any warning and he was feeling very sorry for himself. He was a WRECK. I've heard it from him and from his friends. He wasn't happy with BM, but his kids were his world. But the biggest reason is this: until he and I got serious, he already had them at his house, every other weekend, and often more than that.

It wasn't until she had issues with that and went back on her word that he stopped being able to have them at his own house. In fact, before I came along, she'd talked about giving him legal rights for visitation in court, because she was already bring them over all the time. In short, he didn't go to court because at the time he didn't have to. Stupid, but true. In addition, many divorced men talk about feeling utterly helpless, and feeling like maybe it would be easier on the kids to just move on. Fiance didn't move on, but he thought about it. Men are mostly powerless in custody issues; that's just the truth. There is not a day that both of us don't wish he'd fought this from the beginning. He was ignorant.

fiveinall, I find it hard to believe it's so difficult to see that an abuse accusation was the PERFECT out for BM. It ensured her complete control over the situation and now she had a meal ticket until the kids turn 18. It made everyone feel sorry for her and rally around her. No one who knew fiance fell for this, however.

This happens ALL the time. I'm not sure what's so hard to believe about that. She wanted out, but was probably afraid of how she'd support herself. If she wrote about exactly how the baby blacked his eye, and didn't change her story until 5 months after she left, well, come on. She's lying. My guess is that she doesn't realize that the entry about that is publicly viewable. Why on earth would she describe it in such detail if it didn't happen? And maybe you're not familiar with walkers that have built-in toys all over them. But I've seen the actual walker in their garage. If he was throwing a little tantrum, and he threw his head around the way he still does, it doesn't surprise me in the least that he'd get bruises. So how does this not add up?? And I will mention, again, that he was 4 or 5 months old when she left. She's written both ages at different times. He was not "a couple of months old at best".

Someone mentioned that it sounded like she'd had a job at some point. Yep, 10 whole hours a week at a pizza place. She didn't start school until last year.

Someone please explain to me how it's so unbelievable that they didn't have sex much until she wanted another baby?? That was one of *my* biggest complaints in my last relationship. We didn't even have kids! Happens. all. the. time. And no, we didn't cheat on each other. I finally picked up and moved on.

TOS (and a few others), you take it upon yourself to be very condescending. Concern for me is one thing, but maybe you could respect that not everyone is an idiot. Fiance made close to $15 per hour, and still does, not that it matters. And he didn't have time to worry about finishing school. He had two people to support, and then 2 more. Providing became his #1 priority. BM didn't even make it through one semester without flunking. I wasn't good in college when I was younger, either. You seem to be judging my fiance by what he earns, which is pretty crappy, and a really good way to keep people from hearing the good points you might make. By the way, I'm well aware that one might see my distaste for BM's laziness as a projection about my own mother. I don't really care. It was reprehensible then, and it's reprehensible now not to pay attention to one's kids. It was evident at the party Saturday that someone was up and about unsupervised again. He had red stains all over his face that I'm guess was makeup, but could also be markers. That's one thing, but they were *this close* to losing their son numerous times for not watching him! That should make anyone angry.

Finedreams, please look up retinopathy of prematurity. Fiance can only see very near to him. He can't even read license plates that are right in front of us. Also - he's not settling for unsupervised visitation! That's why he's hiring a lawyer! That's why he's starting a 2nd job today!

People are so paranoid here sometimes that they don't notice things that I've already made very clear... It's rather frustrating to go through this and then to have to repeat myself like I'm on trial. Ages! Dates! Could my fiance be lying to me about his vision? Jesus!

And finally, can we please get over my screen name? It was the most general thing I could come with off the top of my head. I'm not naive. There's a reason I'm not married already. That's why I'm HERE.

I'm not making any decisions or rushing into marriage AT LEAST until he gets his visitation worked out. Having to defend myself though, as a child of divorce myself, against being completely clueless about how all this works, is hurting more than it's helping. Hook line and sinker? PLEASE. That's rude, and not remotely necessary. So I'm going to bow out of here now.

Thanks to everyone for their comments. Hope everything works out.

I would take the advice that helps and try to ignore the people who seem out of line on here. It will only make things more difficult trying to justify your stories to everyone. out of curiosity I was wondering about the molestation article you mention in a previous post. but if you don't want to get into it that is ok. I was just wondering if that actually happened or it was just something the BM made up.