Ceph.......I think what you said was wonderful! You're so smart and wonderful with this kid! You gavae him hope that one day he won't have to be on the pills. That's the best thing you could have done. A lot of people on anti-depressants feel the same way. They feel like they have no emotions be it haappy or sad. I'm sure he feels more alive when he's allowed to have his own natural feelings. But he has to learn to control them and that's what the meds are for. Once he can learn to control them, he can get off (in theory). Good job! You'll make a great mom one day!

Oh, and BTW, your FDH only addressing part of the problem and not the root of it........my FDH is the same way. He has a reason/excuse/fix for every little situation, but can't see that there is a bigger picture. I'll let ya know if I figure out how to deal with that cuz right now it pisses me off. LOL!

I will never understand how people can push ritalin for children and then complain when they end up abusing alcohol or recreational drugs. I don't doubt that he can function better when drugged, but I am not at all sure that it is worth the damage to his psyche or the potential, and largely unknown, long term damage to his brain and body.

I think you handled it wonderfully and explained it so he could easily understand without making him feel badly about it.

My sister avoided putting her ADHD diagnosed son on ritalin for years, finally when he went into 8th grade she relented and started him on it & after argueing against it for so many years. He had a horrible time in class acting out, controlling his emotions, concentrating etc. Now she says she wished she would have listened to his physician and psychologists all along. He is doing so much better now & succeeding in school both academically and socially.

Not every child on ritalin ends up being a substance abuser. Most kids that ABUSE ritalin and end up abusing other substances have been misdiagnosed or are gettin ritalin from their friends. There is a place for the use of amphetamine based drugs in true ADHD cases, and those kids do not typically get a "buzz" off it. Proper diagnosis is key.

Well that comment is a new low, even for you, tos.

The child of a friend of mine was put on ritalin, and shortly thereafter began to have seizures. She has never forgiven herself for it.

Obviously it is not up to Ceph whether or not the child takes ritalin. I am not blaming her.

One of my son's advisers suggested that he might have ADD and should consider ritalin. I have never seen him so furious in his entire life. He was raised in a household where there was no drinking, no smoking, and where we think carefully before taking Advil. Various family members have had adverse reactions to allergy drugs, Tylenol with codeine that was prescribed after surgery, and albuterol. I am sure Ceph can tell you more than I can about the relationship between an individual's genetic makeup and how he or she metabolizes drugs.

If I had a child with ADD (and I think there is a good possibility that a couple of mine could have been diagnosed with it had I pursued that), and I had the financial resources to do so, I would homeschool the child. I would not enroll him in team sports, but would concentrate on individual sports. I would enroll him in martial arts, but only with a teacher who was experienced with kids with ADD, and possibly in private lessons rather than a class.

" I am not blaming [Ceph]". No, just maligning her. I can read between the lines as well as you and kkny can.

This is about a small boy taking medication, that he has not had an adverse reaction to, so he can function better. No one said anything about future addictions. In any case, these are loving parents and you don't know what kind of thought and consideration went into deciding whether or not their son should take this medication. How dare you insinuate that they give their child meds flippantly? You wouldn't like it if the accusation was against you.

Ashley said:
"You wouldn't like it if the accusation was against you."

or how about saying she neglected her child(ren) by not getting them diagnosed or treatment when she says "and I think there is a good possibility that a couple of mine could have been diagnosed with it had I pursued that"

ritalin is not the best medication when it comes to ADHD. if a kid does not feel well, feels low or like not having as much fun, it is possible that his medication is wrong for him. plenty of other ADHD medication that might be better. discuss it with his doctor.

tos, children who have to take ADHD medication and don't take it, are the ones who are more likely to end up abusing alcohol and drugs. not the other way around. pnelty of research about it. addictions are much more likely with people who have severe ADHD and do not take medication. if medication is trully needed, it is much safer to take it than not. trust me.

Unlike the United States, the number of children prescribed drugs for ADHD in Canada is very small, just slightly over one percent in Saskatchewan, where Ceph lives.

If a child is prescribed such medications in Canada, its because they actually need it, and will benefit from using it.

Contrast that to many of the states, where kids are put on ADHD drugs at the request of a preschool, or the word of a teacher. In Louisiana, children can be expelled from a school if the teacher requests the child be given ADD medication, and the parents refuse. 8 percent of school age white children in Louisiana are on medication for ADD. Compare that with 1.5 percent in North Dakota, or 1 percent in Canada.

Its easy to see that not all kids being treated for ADHD actually have it.

Ceph's STBSS seems to have the obvious s ymptoms of it, and I am sure medication in his case is a huge help. There is no question in my mind that A_ has profound symptoms of ADHD, and needs intervention.

My third son has ADHD. I didnt medicate him ( he is 20 now, medication wasnt common when he was a child). I did homeschool him, for three years, and it helped him academically, but until he actually began medication last year, at the age of 19 , his symptoms still negatively affected his life. He is doing much better on medication than he ever did without it.

I cant help contrasting my son with my stepson. His mother put him on Ritalin when he was four years old and in preschool. She is convinced that he has ADHD, but has never had a proper assessment from a mental health professional. Her reason for putting him on the medication is because he doesnt sit still. I dont know many young boys who do. Over half the boys in my stepsons class in school are on ADHD drugs. Its a white upper class neighbourhood. Can we say overmedication? I have had enough sons that I can easily see that my stepson does not have anything even close to ADHD, and he is a perfectly normal little boy, but other than discussing it privately with my husband, I keep my mouth shut. We do not give him the drugs the days he is with us.

Kids are overmedicated, I believe that. But when a child truly does have a problem, the medication can help.

Ceph, I would suggest changing the medication. Ritalin does have some rather nasty side effects and there are more modern drugs out there with less impact on the childs eating, sleep and overall wellness patterns. Adderall, or Strattera would be worth looking into.

For what its worth, I think you are doing a fabulous job of rising to the challenge of helping to raise A_. He and his father are fortunate indeed to have someone as willing to search for practical solutions as you seem to be, in their lives. I know your marriage is going to turn out great. YOu really do have their best interests at heart.

homeschooling is not always an option. actually it is almost never an option. not too many men/women can quit their job and educate their children. i certainly could never afford not working. plus homeschooling is not always the best solution.

I realize that homeschooling is not always an option financially, but for a child who has difficulty focusing, it can be a godsend. Other options include hiring an advocate to "encourage" the public school system to hire a one-on-one aide for the child, or pay for placement in a school for kids with learning disabilities, one with smaller classes and teachers with specialized training. There are lots of options.

Hey TOS!
Read Between this line!

Kick Start your broom and while you're at it........SHUT UP!

TOS ADHD is usually not enough to qualify for special ed and certainly not enough to get one-on-one aide. no district would provide one-on-one aide for a child with ADHD. No matter how many advocates you are going to hire. and in fact it is embarassing for a child who does not have a severe disability and it is absolutelly unneccesary. in fact it is less and less popular measure due to the fact that it does not help anyone (unless child is severely disable or is dangerous).

ceph's SS does not sound like he needs one-on-aide or needs to be ins a special school with only special ed kids. why would she want her SS to have that?

as about special school. why would one want to isolate their children who do not have serious disabilities?

i think all what you suggest sounds way more cruel and way less productive than giving a child prescribed medication. i suspect you just like to argue for the sake of the argument.

Finedreams,

Maybe where you live, but in my state the boy would almost undoubtedly qualify for an IEP. As I have mentioned before, the schools here are more than willing to provide services to kids whose behavior is disruptive. It is the quiet ones with disabilities who tend to get lost in the shuffle.

There are lots of kids in our school system with one-on-one aides, who do not appear to "need" one to an outsider. It is actually one of the first options offered, because paying an aide $11 an hour is a lot cheaper than sending the child to an out of district placement.

"why would she want her SS to have that?"

Because it may be the best setting for him. Attending a school designed specifically for children with attention issues is NOT a punishment. The teachers there are highly skilled in teaching kids with such issues; the whole structure of the school is set up to maximize the children's opportunities to learn, taking into account their disabilities.

From everything Ceph has said, the boy's disabilities ARE serious. If they were not serious, based on what Kathline posted, as a Canadian he would not be given ritalin.

What ceph describes is a regular maifestation of ADHD behavior. It can be controlled. If child's behavior is still unmanagable AFTER he takes medication, then maybe he can be considered for spec.ed. If however he is prescribed medication and refuses to take it and contunes misbehaving, then he will not qualify for spcial. ed. If someone has poor eye sight and wears strong glasses and still cannot see, then he/she qualifies for visually imapired. But if he /she is prescribed glasses but refuses to wear them, he/she will not qualify for disability. one qualifies for disability when every possible correction is provided and yet child cannot learn or cannot behave. Simply refusing to take prescribed medication does not automatically qualify for IEP.

The issue is how to make sure he's taking the meds he's ALREADY BEEN DIAGNOSED. Ceph doesn't need more diagnosis by any would-be doctors on this site.

I definitely don't think that isolating a child is the answer. At some time they will have to be in society with other people. Pulling him out of school to homeschool for the reason of not wanting to give him medication would be isolating him. He will not learn how to deal with real life situations and other people. If he's functional with the meds, then he should be able to interact with his friends and such.

I agree with Kathline that if the Ritilin makes him feel yucky, maybe he could try another med. I think that's a good idea. But if it's just him being rebellious, you'll just have to supervise.

I also agree that it's usually those who DON'T take their meds that have problems in the future.

If you go through the list of ADHD diagnostic criteria ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhd has it) A__ has ALL of them to the point of "disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level"
He really has made HUGE progress in the last year or so, but his ADHD causes health, home and social problems for him.
"Health" because he often is too wound up to sleep and is exhausted the next day, he can't identify hungry/full or other body signals because he can't pay attention to his body, he may or may not remember to wash/wipe/groom himself properly (or possibly HOW to do it properly), and he often gets injured from things that are truly terrible ideas but he's too impulsive to identify it.
"Home" because he is often in trouble with his caregivers for things like picking on the pets, wrecking things by climbing on them, not listening, or bad attitude.
"Social" because he has problems at school with his classwork and his behavior, in situations like birthday parties, when he grabs things or runs around at stores, that other kids don't like him because he is "too weird", those sorts of things.

I know that being active and not having good judgment are part of being a kid... But he goes WELL beyond that. I have a nephew the same age as A__, and I do science outreach with kids, often with the 8-10yo set, and often see the "norm" for boys that age. A__ definitely does not behave like his peers do.

When he takes his Ritalin, he is a little surly and hard to engage, but he can follow a simple instruction, remember to wash his hands after using the bathroom, he says please and thank you, he can sit in a chair, recall where he left his pencil, play a game of cards. Without his pills, these everyday things are a STRUGGLE for him.

We've been doing little things on days where he doesn't take a pill (BM prefers that he doesn't on weekends or in summer if there isn't a specific reason for him to, and I'm on the fence about how I feel about that - I see ups and downs to both sides - but it's not my decision, so I can respect her preference) like making a QUICK trip to the store for less than five minutes. That way, he can gradually learn how to manage when he has not taken a pill.
He also goes through the morning routine before he takes his pill when he is with us, so he can learn to go through day-to-day living without.
When we introduce a game/chore/activity/route for the first time, we make sure it's WITH a pill, so he can listen and remember. After that, with guidance, he can often do it without a pill. If we try to introduce something new without a pill, he's so wound up about that this chore/game/route is new that he can't pay attention well enough to actually do it. (I think this is quite ironic)

A__ going to school without his pills is simply out of the question at this point. When we were talking about that Ritalin is to help him learn to manage his feelings and everyday life, he asked if he would be off it when he was ten. I said I thought it would be longer, maybe in high school, or maybe after he is all done all his school, that it's hard to tell now. I'll be telling BM how I answered that one, so that she's prepped for if something comes out of left field on that.

He switched prescriptions last winter, to a slower release dose, and it's a great improvement. He still gets the benefits of being able to listen and think and so on, but he doesn't have the huge emotional ups and down that he did on his old dose.
It might be good to try a Ritalin alternative, that might not have the side effects (loss of appetite, surliness, etc) but that's not up to me. I can suggest to FDH, and he can suggest to BM, but I have to work with what I've got here.
What I have here: a little boy with a big heart, who wants desperately to be "good", but has a lot of trouble with it on his own.

I love A__ very much, and I want him to be able to cope with everyday life... And that's why I appreciate advice from all of you - because I don't have all the answers, but you ladies are able to help me.

I shared here at some point that i had a professor in graduate school who is on adult ADHD medication. he has been on medication his whole life. he also has learning disability and emotional impairment. he absolutelly would not be where he is now if he would not be on medication (he used to joke: you don't want to attend my lecture when i am off meds). he also would not be who he is now if he would be isolated to some special school for no reason or even educated at home by his mom.

good luck with A. maybe he will be a professor one day. who knows. everything possible.