"Am I over-reacting?" Not really, in my opinion. I'd be especially irked because he said he wouldn't get involved and then turned around and did it anyway.

What is up with these guys behaving like kicked dogs who keep crawling back to lick the hands of the women who kicked them?

He claims he just "came across" the van at the auction this past Tuesday, but I have my doubts. I think he was looking with her in mind.

I don't get it.

Maybe it has nothing to do with helping BM and is more about showing off to her? As in, look at how clever I am for what a great deal I can find?

I don't get it either. If people have treated me very badly in the past I can be civil but they are going to be kept at arm's length for a long time - like a century.

"Maybe it has nothing to do with helping BM and is more about showing off to her?"

DH told me he primarily dealt with BM's DH regarding the deal; I know he called a few nights ago to discuss it, while we were eating dinner, so I think this is probably accurate.

Somehow that makes it a little better to me, two men doing business, as opposed to DH helping out BM; but her text annoys the crap out of me because it's CLEAR she views it as DH doing something nice for her. And that irritates me to no end.

Probably an issue to bring up in marriage counseling b/c it all, for me, stems from the same issue. When BM punched me--there was a short amount of time when DH was cold and distant with her, and then, gradually, he lapsed right back into friendly.

They are nowhere NEAR as friendly as they used to be, but still....I think they are friendlier than most exes!

Sorry, I was so caught up in my own mini-drama that I wasn't thinking clearly. I wonder if DH was trying to help you. You're the one that would be getting the last minute phone calls to pick up SS from school, so maybe he's thinking that, now that they have the van (however briefly until it gets repo-ed), it will make life better for you.

As for BM, who cares what she thinks? I wouldn't doubt that she sent the text just to be an instigator; the crazy BM's seem to always want to feel that they have this on-going special "connection" (other than over the children) that we will just never have.

I can certainly understand how you would be annoyed. Who wouldn't be?

But I can also understand how/why your Hubby would help his psycho ex with the car -- I mean, with her lousy credit, how else was she even going to get one? If she got an unreliable car, you have to pick up the pieces. If it's too expensive, DS suffers. If she has no car, you also pick up pieces and DS suffers...

Bottom line, even though it means helping her and ticking you off, it's what most good people would do...

"I mean, with her lousy credit, how else was she even going to get one? "

She had already been approved for a 7K loan---so she would have just gotten something through a regular dealership.

My DH had nothing to do with the financing.

I know what you mean, though, Sweeby--and I think an element of it was that DH thought he was helping me out b/c it means BM will be able to get SS FOR sure.

And that's great. But I still don't like the message his actions send to BM which is that he will always, no matter what she pulls or does, be her friend. THAT bothers me. It's like there is just no boundary there.

She had a loan---she didn't "need" help from him---so all he did, IMO, was help her into a nicer car. Sure enough, she got leather and her stupid DVD player.

I see it as friendly and even enabling.

But maybe I am being pissy :)

The mother of your husband's children needed a vehicle.

Your husband sold her a car *& made $600*.

& you're incensed about it.

First of all, I think this is between him & her, & maybe the grandparents;
it isn't your place to have any feelings about it at all.

Secondly, were I in your shoes, I think I'd be embarrassed that my husband made money off the vehicle his ex needed to take care of his children.

The fact that your husband was able to get her a nicer car is the reason she bought it from him, & that's how he made the $600.

You have lots of other stuff to be angry about with this woman;
let this one go.

"Secondly, were I in your shoes, I think I'd be embarrassed that my husband made money off the vehicle his ex needed to take care of his children."

How ridiculous. My husband has JOINT PHYSICAL CUSTODY of their son---works his @$$ off---and has always gone above and beyond to provide for their son. BM is the one living off the state, refusing to work and popping out two more babies. And suddenly it's poor BM, she needs a vehicle to take care of "his child.' And that is somehow my husband's problem?

My hubby is not some every-other-weekend dad while BM does the lion's share of childcare. HE takes care of THEIR child an equal amount of time---often MORE---as BM. So please don't make this about her "taking care of his child." THAT does not fly with me.

And it's not CHILDREN, it's CHILD. She has three children, only ONE of whom is his.

I am angry that he helped her out. Plain and simple. After all she's done to us, all the havoc and drama and pain she has caused. He did her a big favor---after I asked him not to and he said he wouldn't/didn't want to.

I specifically asked my husband months ago to please not get involved in this car deal with her. My hubby does NOT do financing of any kind--he is not a bank--so it's not like he could have helped her get a loan. She had 7K to spend and any dealership would have gladly taken her money.

I agree with you a lot, Sylvia, but I think your stance is off base here.

I'm not arguing with Sweeby---that DH did it to lessen stress for me or him (us) or even because it was the right thing to do. I still don't like that he was friendly and went out of his way for BM, but I can *kind of* see why.

But as far as it being wrong for him to make $$$ off the deal? That's crazy. He only made $600, which is piddly compared to what he normally makes on an average deal.

I don't get it. He doesn't cut breaks for anyone else, friends OR family, so why would he for BM? Because she is "the saintly mother of his child?"

BARF. So I suppose when our home needs a new roof, we'll call BM's DH and expect him to do it almost for free---becuase DH is the "father of her child."

Right?

and forget the money, it's not even about that. Like I said, I do not at all like the message it sends to BM, which is that DH will help her out and do her favors.

I do see why you are upset. He does need to stop doing "favors" for this crazy lady who TRIES to make your lives miserable whenever possible. And what if this van gives her problems? I am sure she will be on the phone to dh throwing yet another fit!!

On the flip side though at least you will not be on call because she has no vehicle. And maybe dh really had you in mind when he did this. Its done, just enjoy the $600 he made off bm :)

sorry, I had forgotten details.

no, I don't think her husband should feel compelled to roof your house;
he's not the parent-

Now if your house needed a roof & *she* were a roofer, I think it would be nice if she did the job & got your husband an upgrade & made money.

I do know that cannot happen;
she isn't a roofer,
she wouldn't do it if she were,
& if I were in your position, I would not want the woman on my roof with a roofing hammer.

As I said, I know you've been through a lot with this stuff;
your husband did a good turn *& made money from it*.

Let this one go, cut it loose, put it in your past, be glad she has wheels.

Actually, he technically *lost* money from the deal since he only took in 1/2 his regular markup. I assume that the money he takes in is not free and clear? He does have to pay for overhead, does he not? (advertising, salary(s), lot rental, fuel for test drives, car washes/detailers). I could be wrong, but I don't think DH has an extra $600 cash in his pocket over the deal.

So, not only did DH go back on his promise, he actually looked for the EXACT specifications for BM that are totally unnecessary (IMO) like leather seats and a DVD. She got the "whole package". And DH was the one to get it for her. Something tells me the kid doesn't give a hoot about leather, the leather is not for the kid. The DVD doesn't enhance their lives either.

This, from someone who doesn't have the cash to pay for $25 one time payment for her kid's soccer. Perhaps the DVD/leather package could have been left off and she'd have a bit left in her loan for soccer lessons?

bi*ch away... I'm square on your side of the ring on this one.

bi*ch away... I'm square on your side of the ring on this one.
Me too.

I'm happy BM got a vehicle, but am upset that your DH got involved. He should have stayed out of that mess.

"it isn't your place to have any feelings about it at all."

Seriously? C'mon, it's not a wife's place to have feelings about what her husband does? I'm sure LH has feelings about EVERY sale her husband makes, considering it is their income & livelihood. I know my husband works on commissions & it affects our household when he makes less than usual. Besides, we are entitled to have feelings about anything and everything, it's what we women DO. So, that statement was uncalled for... a person shouldn't get special treatment JUST because they are the "baby mama", especially after the things THAT woman has done.

But, she is trying to get something.. so of course she is going to be nice & grateful "now". and I can understand him saying to himself "she's the mother of my son, she needs a car to pick up our son, it would help LH to not have to go get my son when BM can't, etc." but the message it sends to BM is that he will help her out & do her favors. What he should have done is responded to the text and told her that it was not really doing her a favor, he would have done it for ANYBODY. At least it would let her know that he is not open to continuous favors... because I know that SD's mom always wanted DH to do her favors "for SD" that really had little or nothing to do with SD, and it was ALWAYS a one way street.... she NEVER did him a favor. Some people just take & take & take. I don't blame you for being annoyed.

and I hope mom2emall is right, but I bet it will p!ss you off moreso when she calls to say she can't get her son for another reason... like she's out of gas! I've heard THAT one too!

Getting in an uproar because her husband did something decent for his ex is *not* going to do anybody any good or improve anybody's relationship with her husband.

A wife is entitled to be angry at her husband for, say, insisting that his ex be allowed to stalk you even after she has beaten the carp out of you.

but to be angry at him for having done something decent is way out of line.

& if he made $600, he didn't lose money.

I don't know what the breakdown is. The van was marked up $600 over what he paid for it at auction. Now--normally he would price it $1200-1500 over, but he would also have it professionally detailed, sometimes do minor repairs, etc. He did nothing to this car---so aside from auction fees, he is probably coming out about $500ish ahead on the deal.

BUT--that is really not my issue.

It is exactly what Ima said, what I said before: I HATE the precedent (again) that it sets for BM that DH will go out of his way for her.

"but the message it sends to BM is that he will help her out & do her favors."

That is it in a nutshell.

She had 7K to spend any ANY dealership--it is NOT that my hubs saved the day and got her a car and without him she still would have been car-less. What HE did was get her into a nicer car-she basically was able, through him, to buy a car that would have been maybe 10K at a regular dealership for 7K. She got a newer model, less miles, leather, DVD, etc.

It really, really is the issue of doing something nice for HER. He got her her last SUV--the one HER DH pretty much took over about three years ago and that didn't bother me at the time.

It's given ALL that's gone on, the fact that he would do something like that for her.

Another thing I am irked about is the fact that I specifically asked him to not get involved. And he said OKAY, I WON'T.

Now, if he had said at the time to me, "you know, love, I really feel I should do this for A, B or C reasons" then we could have at least discussed it. And maybe I would have agreed, maybe not--but if he had given me a valid argument for it, I would have respected that.

But he told me okay, I won't. Even said he had no interest in getting involved in it.

Then two nights ago--oh, by the way, Love, this might make you mad, but...

Sylvia, I hear what you're saying,but you're accusing Love of getting in an "uproar"; when we don't know that is what happened. So far, as far as we know, she's gotten on an anonomous board and vented, much as we may do with a girlfriend.

Love, vent away. I (think) it's not the money it's the way the whole situation went down. Instead of it being you and DH making the decision, it's DH saying he won't do something and then doing it, and then being willing to take his "licks" after the fact.

Like, I know you'll get mad, so let's have it out. Berate me... go ahead.

I would be mad if my DH made a decision like that without discussing it with me too.

When I have a decision to make about DD I run it by DH and by DD's Bio. No, I don't have to include DH but he's my husband, he's my co-parent in every sense of the word. It's important that we operate as a team. One that includes Ex. on matters that have to do with DD.

Mr. Love may have thought he was doing something nice for Love AND for EX AND for kiddos... but if he really felt guilt-free about it he wouldn't have:
A) told Love he wouldn't do it
B) done it anyway

Someone with integrity would tell Love something like; hey, I know I said I wasn't going to help BM out, and it may be a bad decision but I really want her to have a car so that you don't have to drive everywhere, and this is something that is easy for me to do (b/c he is broker). So honey, I'm going to look for her a car. I hope it doesn't backfire like we think it will.

That way, Love doesn't feel like odd-duck out in the decision process and EVERYONE is included in the game.

IMO, DH made an immature decision, for whatever reason. I don't think DH should text BM anything about doing it for "anyone" because obviously he doesn't. He should say something like: "Love and I were concerned that you didn't have transportation and we're glad we could assist".

I don't mind my DH doing nice things for BM because they are always from "us" as well as the nice things I do for Ex. It's the WAY it was done that would irk me.

well i see why you are upset, i understand your feelings.

on the other hands i understand him too. they do have a minor child together...

my ex would do that for me when DD was little.

i would be probably secretly upset if my SO did favors for his ex because there are no little kids involved, but i think when there are young kids you do help each other and you have to remain civil and even friendly.

believe me things change when kids grow up. we used to be on the phone with ex quite often and now we only talk maybe once in 3 months and we certainly do not do any favors. DH won't do favor for her when SS will be 25.

you might want to address in marriage therapy session, see what therapist says

I can see Love getting annoyed by this, I would be upset to a point too.

I think I would try to keep it into perspective though. I don't really see it as a case of being 'too friendly' with BM, nor as it being a case that BM turned to Mr Love because she knew he'd be a sucker for her.

I think in this case...buying a car...DH was singled out for the mere fact vehicles is what he does for a living. If it would have been BM's neighbor Mr Smith that could find her a car, Mr. Love would not have been even thought of.

It does sound like most the 'dealing' was between the two guys, Mr Ex and Mr Love.

From Mr Love's view I can see him being stuck between telling Mr Ex to go to h#ll and looking like a jerk or doing Mr Ex a simple enough favor and thus getting the vehicle and getting Mr and Mrs Ex back out of his life quickly and without resentment.

From Love's view, Mr. Love betrayed her by helping when he said he would not and not really being upfront about it. He could have just said "Love, the guy keeps calling, cars are what I do, I can either help him or I can tell him to drop dead and buiild up more hard feelings and resentment for us all...which do you think we should do?"

It was not a good idea to tell your wife 'I will not get involved' and then jump right into it. I think this is what bothers Love more than anything else. They're in the process of working out their relationship and it does not appear that Mr Love took into consideration Love's feelings or how she might view this action...it appears to Love that once again she (her feelings) were kicked to the wayside while DH rode his white horse off to help/save the lady who has been the source of many heachaches/fear and hassles for Love.

The car itself I don't see as such a big deal. So $7,000...it can't be 'all that'...so it had a few decent options in it (DVD, leather) it's still an old used vehicle, he did not custom order it, it's not like he helped her get a brand new fancy car that they went auto shopping together for...this one just happened to be available and had a few perks in it. Love would not feel I don't think any different if the vehicle was an old beater.

It's not the car, it's the feeling of betrayal and dishonesty that has Love worked up and I think that is the important part for Mr Love to understand. Love sees this as falling back into old patterns.

Justmetoo, the falling back into old patterns and feeling invalidated is a lot of the problem.

To me---if this were a decent situation with two rational, decent people---like FD and her ex, or Silver and her ex--then helping out would not be a problem.

But like I said--time and time again, pretty much throughout the course of our relationship and now marriage, BM has been *allowed* (by DH) to do whatever she wants with no consequences.

Bang on our bedroom window drunk in the middle of the night on multiple occasions? Yes, DH was angry at BM for a few days but soon all was forgiven and forgotten.

Call Love nasty names, send her nasty emails, make fun of Love's young DD? Yes, DH was angry for a few days but soon all was forgiven and forgotten.

Nasty, expensive court battle? Assault, false child abuse allegations, restraining order, restraining order VIOLATIONS? Yes, DH was angry for a few days but soon all was forgiven and forgotten.

The night BM tried to drive drunk with her son and then punched me--I listened as DH her on the phone angrily that he would no longer take phone calls from, that communication between them would be limited to email or text messages only? I was so impressed he said that.

A few weeks later...oh, he took a call here and there..and before I knew it, things had slipped right back into the way they were before for the two of them. Not for me---b/c I had the R.O--but DH was friendly with BM, perhaps not to the extent he'd been before, but friendly enough.

We recently drove back from vaca---5 hour drive--and BM called THREE TIMES in that period. All to talk to DH. All about the most ridiculous stuff.

HE has not set and enforced clear boundaries. He does periodically but he always falls back on them.

I am not saying he should be nasty or mean to her by ANY means---yes, he needs to keep things civil and courteous. But to me, helping her buy a car, when she could have gone to any other dealership, sends her the wrong message. The message that yes, once again, DH will do something nice for BM, will do her a favor, help her out, be friendly.

The day he had to meet BM to pick up the cashier's check---she sent him a text mess. asking him if he could stop and "get her some smokes." My DH doesn't smoke! And how inappropriate is it to ask your EX-BF--when doing a "business deal" to stop and get cigarettes for you. THAT is how she is with him. He didn't do it, of course, but the way I see it---HIS actions contribute to HER thinking they are friends.

Just once---I would have liked for him to take the attitude that the way she has treated me, HIS WIFE, is unacceptable, and has forever changed the dynamics of their relationship.

But that's never happened.

We almost divorced last spring---and I will tell you, the NUMBER ONE cause of our fights/arguments/marital discourse is DH's lack of boundaries with BM and his invalidation of my feelings.

It's fine for BM to drop a "gift" off for SS on our front porch, even though I have a restraining order and she's not alllowed to set foot in even our driveway.

It's fine for her to drive past our house, want to drop SS's soccer cleats off, or his Wii game or this or that. And I'm the big bad wife because I feel that enforcing and sticking to the order of protection is more important that BM just "needing" to drop crap off.

She pushes limits and I fear that it is a game for her. Like, she pushes to see how far she can go, and she gets this perverse satisfaction out of knowing that DH will still, no matter what, be her "friend."

At least that's how I perceive it.

And honestly---more than anything--it hurts me. I am angry at DH, but he doesn't know how angry. The other night when he told me what he'd done, I expresssed displeasure but he talked me out of it, and I dropped the issue, as I always do with him. It's not worth the fight with HIM to me.

Then I stewed over it and asked for advice here. Yesterday I emailed DH and expressed my feelings of hurt over the matter---the fact that he had promised me he wouldn't get involved and then went and did it anyway. I emailed b/c I felt I could convey my thoughts better that way.

He called me from work later on and said "I know, I'm really sorry" and he did say what some of you suspected---that he did it b/c he thought he was helping ME out by getting her into a car quickly.

I don't know. I intend to bring it up in counseling. To me---it is the SAME issue, just fought and argued and discussed in different forms.

Lovehadly I really do understand your frustration but I think your DH was between a rock and a hard place. Last week you complained his EX didn't have a car and would be taking advantage of you to transport your SS. Not fair to you, so he did give her a deal which probably means she got a more dependable car to transport his son and now she has no excuse.
I think he did a nice thing for you and his son and I would let this go. With her there is already enough drama in your lives.

SMOKES!! She asked him to swing by and purchase her smokes??

Talk about tossing another log on one's fire. The lady could not fork over $25 for the child to do sports, she had her parents freeze their savings account...but please stop by the store and buy her some smokes? Depending on where you're at, cigs are anywhere from $6 to $10 a pack.

I have no tolerance for such self centered 'priorities' when it comes to kids maybe doing without just to feed one's own desires.

That seriously stinks.

Wonder how quickly poor grandpa/ma's saving gets wiped out because car payments are not a priority either.

I don't know how to put this, I'll try to convey in a coherent way...
Communication can be such a buggar...sometimes we're in sinc, other times not. Those off times can be frustrating beyond reason.
And you think, how could my DH NOT understand what I'm feeling/saying, are they from another planet? How could my SO discount me, like it's second nature? How could I have conveyed my issue any clearer?
And then you're pissed. Really pissed. Remembering all of the times when the SAME issue, the SAME conversation, the SAME outcome has come to roost ONCE again. I mean how many times can this occur?
It'll occur until you change up the dance.
YOU change the dance.
Change the verbiage you're using. It can work wonders.
Are you angry or disgusted?
Are you hurt or disappointed?

I'd been carping about needing help with some things about the house, I swear I saw his head nodding in agreement, yet week after week I'd be back to the same ole same ole " I need you to help me"!
Then I was diagnosed with an illness that brought us to our knees...when the issues that I'd pulled my hair over, trying to get him to "help" came up AGAIN, I had an epiphany, I needed to use different words.
Rather than telling him I needed his help, I straight up requested that he "take charge" of _____blank. I didn't "need" him to do this or that, he needed to "take charge" of this or that.
He understood that language! :)

I understand your frustration. I so do.
Would your hubby be happy that you're disgusted with him? I mean he KNOWS angry doesn't he? He knows the outcome of angry. He doesn't know the outcome of disgusted or disappointed.
Change the verbiage, change the dance.

maybe he is afraid if he does not do this and that she will make it difficult on SS, will speak poorly of his dad or maybe start pushing for custody change or something, he does things out of fear as people often do. with such crazy ex would you blame him? yes bring it in therapy, certainly.

buy some smokes???i could see "buy some medicine for our SS, he is ill," or "please i am begging you buy me some bread, i broke both legs cannot walk and am dying of starvation"....but smokes???/ wtf???

I do think, FD, that he is still afraid of her wrath and what happens when she is angered.

If he had said no to getting her a car---for whatever reason---she would have been mad and DH hates a confrontation. But see--that is an issue, too. He won't fight with HER but he has no prob. causing issues with ME. Why? Because he knows---at the end of the day---I will *shut up and put up.* These issues, one by one, aren't worth wrecking our marriage over, BUT when they all add up, it becomes a larger problem. That's what we really need to address in counseling.

As far as him thinking he was doing me a favor--see, that bugs me too. I had ALREADY discussed the issue with him and said that I would be "on call" to get SS (if BM couldn't, due to lack of car) on Mondays and
DH would need to take Tuesdays and every other Friday. I told him I 100% was NOT going to cover for her any more than that, and if HE wanted to be her "call-a-ride" HE could. But that I was not going to do it.

He said FINE, I understand, don't blame you, I will not ask you to cover for her, etc.

And then a week later tells me he got her the car to take the pressure off me so I would not have to be on call for picking up SS?

BUT--I had already made my stance clear and thought he agreed---so it was like, at the back of his head, he was already *expecting* me to be on call for BM, DESPITE what he had said.

Does that make sense?

I often feel like he just tells me what I want to hear. It's really frustrating b/c I can never...well...trust him.

As far as the "smokes"...ughh...she is just so...I don't know. Really, I look at her and the way she looks, talks, acts, lives, and think WHAT was my DH thinking???

She is so awful with boundaries, and DH plays right into it. Thank goodness he didn't get her any---he would not do that, he hates cigarettes, but I thought it was so ballsy/strange that she would even ask him!

HA. DH told me when he dropped the van off at her house the other day, it was almost on empty (LOL) and BM turned to her DH and said "I need some gas money" and he started telling her all he had was $15 to last until next week, and she said "too bad, I need it for gas!"

I'm sure that will be the next thing--the gas $$ problem--although she did make it all through last school year without a problem. But that was before they had ANOTHER baby. So we'll see.

I feel sorry for HER hubby's parents and their frozen savings account.

what a mess!

It's like your DH is addicted to the chaos... in my opinion, he needs some individual therapy to figure out why he can't let go & move on. It may be something sub-conscious from his childhood, but he really needs to figure that out.

It took my dad 35-40 years and two marriages to figure out that he chose relationships where he was a caretaker... not that his wives 'needed' to be taken care of, but he assumed that role in both marriages.

It might also be a good idea for you to get information on Adult Children of Alcoholics. I'm an ACA and there are many things that we do.. learned behaviors as coping mechanisms, and it may help to reflect on YOUR past & why you do what you do... and make the choices you make.

Thanks Ima. :) I've been to some ACoA meetings before--never really tried it, though, but I know people swear by the 12 step programs. I'm not opposed, it's just a matter of doing it.

I actually started psychotherapy this past May. I go twice a week and it's been (so far) really beneficial to me. I DO carry a lot of hurt/anger/pain from my childhood and A LOT of my feelings of being invalidated stem from that. DH & BM are almost a substitute for my parents--in some ways.

My mom was an alcoholic who was great but was also verbally abusive/sometimes violent when she drank. My dad looked the other way--he was a GREAT provider, and very stable in many ways, still is. BUT he was also pretty emotionally distant and he certainly didn't protect me and my bro from my mom's drinking.

I can see how a lot of my childhood pain replays itself in my marriage, and my life in general.

I do think DH could benefit from ind. therapy, as well! Funny you said that b/c I JUST brought it up with him the other day. He has a terrible habit of procrastinating/hiding/burying his head in the sand, and I think it stems from deeper childhood things for him, too.

His dad walked out on his mom when he was only 6 yrs old---moved to another state, remarried and had two more children. Rarely saw DH or his brother, although he did try.

Now--the funny thing is--DH is very close to his dad now, and estranged from his mom. His mom--think Kathy Bates in Misery. She is seriously psycho. DH now thinks, looking back, that his mom made it next to impossible for his dad to have any kind of relationship w/his sons. He remembers his dad calling to talk and his mom screaming at him on the phone.

This was all back in the 70s when dads just didn't have the rights they do today.

Nonetheless, whatever the reason, his dad leaving was hurtful to DH and I know he harbors pain over it. :(

Would you like to marry a vengeful jerk as a husband or would you like a man who is compassionate? .

Instead of being jealous and angry with perhaps your h helping a down and trotten person, you should be proud that he is compassionate. The world is full of hatred already, let one time love be the boss.

Buddha said a long time ago : You will be punished, not for your anger, but by your anger.

There is no need to be angry and jealous here. Take the high road, and you, your life and your husband will be better because of it.

I beg to differ Shakti. A compassionate man does not lie to the person with whom he has taken vows of commitment and loyalty.

Since this seems to be a recurring habit of his, I think it's important for Love and her husband to work on this issue.

It's not bad that he helped another person. It's not ok that he made an agreement, broke that agreement and then lied about it.

Am I right in reading that she is now driving by your home and essentially stalking you in this vehicle your DH arranged for her to purchase?

Oh my gosh Wrychoice, I just caught that.

"Am I right in reading that she is now driving by your home and essentially stalking you in this vehicle your DH arranged for her to purchase?"

HAHA. Yeah, I guess! LOL. I don't think of it that way. She and her hubs had already been approved for the loan, so they would have gotten a car SOMEWHERE no matter what.

But when you put it like that...!

Thanks Silver, that was so well written. I told DH he needed to read this entire thread.

I think sometimes he forgets---it seriously is like he is immune to the way she is. He forgets that it is NOT normal.

Well... for him... it IS NORMAL. That's the problem.

If you are used to your parents falling down drunk... it's normal!

If you're used to your kids stealing from you, using the resources, using stuff without asking, mooching like crazy.... it's normal!!

If you are used to having to lie to not get in trouble, be evasive to keep the peace.... it's normal!

I think you need to ask yourself, I think everyone should ask themselves... heck, I'm asking myself right now...

What is my normal? What do I want my normal to look like?