And you know what else it isn't about? The OP's relationship with his wife. Reading Chase's post about there being a tradition of the groom's mother and bride's father walking out together made me see this differently, even though I agree that no rule in the world is going to make a difference in this situation, and even though I still would give the OP the same advice. What made me think about this is the brief detour into discussing Jewish weddings, where all the parents escort and stand with the couple. Obviously, where there are remarriages and stepparents, this could get complicated. But people manage just fine, and the reason, I realized, is that they are participating as their children's parents, not as their current spouses' escorts. If both parents are alive, they participate as usual; if one is dead, the surviving parent does, sometimes with a stepparent, especially if that stepparent helped raise the child. Most people handle it graciously even where there are hard feelings between ex-spouses, because they both still are parents to their child, and new spouses understand that this isn't about them, it's about the parent-child relationship. It's the same thing here: the OP will be participating in the wedding as the bride's father, not as his wife's husband. We have no way of knowing if the bride would not have asked for exactly the same thing were the OP still happily married to her mom, whom she adored (and maybe she does indeed love her stepmother). Especially now that I know that in some weddings, this is even seen as traditional, I would not take it as symbolic of anything about the OP's marriage, much less a slap to anyone. After all, he is planning on walking down the aisle with his daughter, not his wife, for the processional -- and that doesn't seem to bother anyone (except maybe me, but that's a whole different story!) -- I mean, no one sees that as "ditching" his wife. His walking out with the groom's mother wouldn't be, either. I still think that this bride is kind of juvenile in her choices. But as I suggested earlier, the OP is being pretty self-centered himself if he thinks anyone is going to be focusing on him or his marriage. It's just not about him. If there really is a problem in this family about the OP's remarriage, the daughter's wedding is not the time, after 12 years, to be working it out.

Hey Lisa ~ It's good to "see" you ;o) We're going to a Bat Mitzvah in late September and I was just discussing our attire this past weekend with my cousin. She's the grandma of the Bat Mitzvah girl and is very "up" on what to do and what not to do (BTW, she's Conservative and keeps kosher). I was showing her the dress I had ordered for the event, which is sleeveless. I told her I would be getting a lightweight shrug to wear over the dress. She thought I was wearing a shrug because of the temple service, and she said that I didn't have to wear anything over the sleeveless dress because it was in a Reform temple. I told her that I was planning on wearing a shrug because I would feel more comfortable in a little cover-up because sleeveless might be pushing it because of my age and (ahem) arms LOL. We also discussed whether or not it would be a hose or no-hose day. She's even going to go bare-legged if it's hot, and believe me, if she can go bare-legged I know it's "correct". She knows her etiquette. You can certainly wear a casual skirt and no hose. Enjoy! Your son has really grown and he is absolutely adorable!

Quote"Are you saying that the rough-in plumbing takes a day, underslab piping takes a day, and trim out takes a day? My bids for plumbing are in the $15,000-$20,000 range. That's a pretty hefty daily rate! " The main water line & house sewer line from the street to the structure plus the interior DWV & water distribution piping under slab are the "rough-in", and yes, the guys are alloted one day to finish that. After the house is dried in and interior walls framed they will return and do the "Stack-out" phase, which is the water lines & DWV lines which will be inside the walls, and here again, the crew is alloted one day to complete that. And when there is to be ABS or Fiberglass tub or showere enclosures they are also installed during the stackout. After the bathroom floors & walls are finished and the kitchen cabinets are in we return a third time to do the "Trim out", which is where we set the sinks, waterclosets and all final valves or trim, and this too is to be done in one day, And those schedules are the same whether its a remodel job or a whole house. So what you see is three days work, but don't think for one monent that all you get for your $20k is 3days. As soon as I get your prints & site plan I have to go to the municipal water & sewer providers to find out exactly where they will be installing the water & sewer taps, then I have to work out the entire water distribution and DWV layout for your job. That generally takes the better part of a day, then I have to go back over the prints and do a complete material workup, right down to the last pipe hanger, roll of solder and gas for the soldering torches, flux, pipe cleaner, glue etc. After I have the material list I have to contact my suppliers to get a confirmed price, so there is another day. I then have to order the material and as it is delivered to the shop we have to package and stage it for your job, so I have the overhead cost of that storage area plus the labor to handle it in the staging area. Now let us consider the cost of the crew. In addition to their wages, there is $600yr per man for drug tests, $4k per man for tuition for the apprenticeship training course at the local college, $90 per copy for the code books and every employee must have one, then there is workmans comp insurance, vacation time & paid holidays and individual safety equipment such as OSHA approved respirators (one for each man), hard hats, hearing protectors, gloves etc. Then we have 1ton 4x4 crew cab pickups with jobbers boxes for $65k each, a one ton dump with heavy equip. trailer $70K + $6K, a backhoe $95k, bobcat $90K mini-trackhoe $75k, ditch-witch trencher $120k and specialty tools such as the Rigid cordless PEX crimper for a mere $1600, oxy-acetylene tote weld torch $350, for brazing copper under slab, Then we have a small truck load of hand tools or cordless and cord type power tools that are supplied by the company plus a large portable generator and lights incase we have to work late into the night or we happen to be on a site where they don't have temporary power setup yet. Add to that the cost of the office & shop, secretary, bean counter, warehouseman, equipment maintenance and fuel, not to mention another $5k a year in licensing fees. Now don't get me wrong, I am not crying in the least, but if the final analysis out of your $20k if I get $300 for my pocket its a good day.

This is a compilation of suggestions from several Garden Web Hosta Forum Regulars. I claim no responsibility to authorship, I was simply the vehicle to post these pearls of wisdom. If you read the forums regularly, I'm sure you will be able to guess the identity of several of the contributors. Happy Hosta-ing! ********************************************************* Garden Etiquette 1. I did NOT invite you over to use my bathrom ... SO DO NOT ASK .... because i cleaned the garden for your visit, not the house... take care of this before you get here ... though obviously emergencies occur ...and dont stop at micky dee's to take care of it and then buy the 200 ounce pop because it is hot out there .... and then 2 hours later have to use the bathroom .... i will provide you with enough liquids to survive .... perhaps a tablespoon at a time ... 2. DO NOT walk in my garden beds, unless you have permission. 3. IGNORE the idiot dog, when standing near my beds .... to watch you turn him into a frothing love hound and rip up my labels and plants is truly disheartening ... we have the the middle of the lawn for that ... 4. Either bring a gift .... LIKE A HOSTA .. or any perennial .... or send a thank you note ... i did a lot of work for your visit ... and i want some afterglow ... a note a few days later .. usually gets you another invite w/o question ... and probably a hosta next time ... nothing pricey ... it is the gesture ... not the value ... 5. Leash your children if they are a problem [though they are usually not the children of hosta nuts ... these children have been taught the proper priorities] ... or bring something that will entertain them ... and dont rely on my dog to be the entertainment ... he is an idiot ... see above .... 6. Leash your uninterested significant other ... or insure they bring something to entertain themselves ... or better yet .. leave the uninterested at home ... i hate cutting short a tour with someone who is truly interested because they are distracted by someone else ... and suggest to them that if they have nothing nice to say ... they need not say anything ... 7. Do NOT resort to platitudes in describing the beauties before you. Also, PLEASE do NOT tell me how so-and-so's plants are doing better than mine, for whatever reason. 8. be on time .... i have waited and worked like a dog anticipating your visit .. have some respect ... and calling is not sufficient, because i will be out there an hour ahead sprucing up the garden waiting for you .... and i wont be near the phone ..... i will NOT be upset if there was an emergency ... 9. DO NOT try to surreptitiously purloin a piece of ANYTHING (with that plastic spoon hidden in your pocket) without asking my permission. If you ask nicely, I MAY give it to you-but on my terms. 10. if you can grow one better than me .... be prepared to discuss all variables in your success so that i may figure out what you are doing right that i am not 11. Amendment to #1 with relationship to #5 and #6. If you are going to stop at McDonalds on the way to my garden, leave the uninterested spouse and children there. We will all be happier that way. 12. Do NOT pull the plant marker out of the ground to read it easier, and if you must pull it out, PUT IT BACK WHERE YOU GOT IT FROM. 13. FEEL FREE TO PULL WEEDS .... IF YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE ... I WILL BE GLAD TO PROVIDE ANY TOOLS OR SUPPLIES TO ENCOURAGE SUCH ... IF YOU ARE WILLING TO COME BACK TO WEED .. I WILL PAY YOU IN HOSTA ... 14. if you want the label in the picture .. i will gladly do it for you, and put it back where i want it ... they are placed in a certain manner .. so me and the dog know where to walk when you arent here ... moving them can lead to bloody feet for one or the other of us ... and so i know where the dormant plants are in spring ... 15. Never ask to trade me two undulata's for a plant I just gave my left arm and two grandchildren for. 16. Don't ever ask in front of my spouse "Whad'ya give for that one?" 17. No, that one will never be big enough to divide up and give away. If you really like it, I will tell you where to BUY it. 18. Yes, I am sure you would like some plants to get started since they are so expensive. I know, I because I bought most of mine. 19. No, That one won't get any bigger with more light and fertilizer, it is a mini....we like em' that size! 20. Yes, this is a lot of work and takes alot of time, but it keeps me out of the bars.... and I don't get a hangover from it....Occasionally slugs can be a headache, though. 21. Addendum to #1. I did NOT even invite you. You were here when I got home from work and said you didn't think I would mind, since you are related to so and so downtown, and they know me. I DO mind. 22. Addendum to #3. Leave YOUR idiot dog home. Don't tie a beagle on a 6 ft. lead to my gazebo to destroy my Blue Mammoth Hosta while you are on the other side of the house and your dog is going nuts because you just disappeared from his view!! 23. If you don't know a thing at all about Hosta, don't ask for an invite, and then view my Liberty Hosta, which was 6 eyes last year, and say.."Well, I have that one--but mine's huge!!" 24. Do NOT tell me what I "should" OR "shouldn't" do or plant. I love talking about my gardens when someone says "have you ever thought about..." because it's interesting to share ideas and experience. However, I garden for my own pleasure and appeal, so I don't really care if you find something not to your liking. And please don't ever say: You should plant some marigolds. (No, I should not...they don't happen to be a favorite of mine and your barrelful is utterly boring.) You should run those bricks farther down. (No, I want it to transition into a woodland path at this point and you don't even have a garden path, so just go sit down some place and get out of my sight for a while.) You should try some of that colored mulch...really brights up the place. (Are you crazy?...I've seen your yard) 25. And DON'T waste my precious TIME, having to explain the history of each and every HOSTA to YOU, only to tell ME that they LOOK ALL ALIKE.