My personal opinion is because many times the man stands back and doesn't step in because he doesn't want to cause conflict with ex, new wife, or daughter, so he is content to let the rest duke it out. We shouldn't allow them to do it, but alas we do.

lafevem

thanks for your post. You got my point and I am glad!!
But what will you do when you son wants to blame his SM for dad not calling, visiting etc?
will you let him think his dad is great it's only SM keeping him away when he's older or will you tell him the truth?
Wish you were my BM!!!

I think it is a lot of things

1. Women tend to be more home oriented, to the point of territorial. Most men wont even change the toilet paper, so thery are certainly not going to get upset if you change the color.

2. Women tend to have the role of "mother". Men dont. They expect that their wife will be the mother for all children any time children are in house. Childrens mother doesnt like that. Confusion, tension and finally outright war can break out.

3. Women have more maternal instinct. Dont want their children critized by outsiders. Always see hope in their child.

I agree w/ lafevem 100%. I also think women are more emotional and more sensitive in many cases. I started living w/ three other women in college/dental school. If I came home, in another world concentrating on something and failed to rejoice at seeing the women, feelings were hurt, etc. I ended up living w/ three guys. None of them a romantic thing and one guy and I lived together for 5 years! We don't stay in touch but it was a great arrangement. No money hassles, no nitpicking, lol. I tell DH we need to work w/ more men in our office to make things run more smoothly!

I also think the men don't want to be the 'bad' guys so they say what they believe we want to hear - and they say it to everyone. They create huge messes and we women try to hold them to their word ie: "You said you weren't going to do all the driving since the last court order?" we argue as they grab their keys to go do the running around someone else is supposed to do...

My DH caused a huge problem by not wanting to hurt his grown DD's or my feelings (though given a choice, I'm the one shafted!) He'd tell her, "There's no rush, honey. You're free to stay here as long as you like." He'd tell me, "She mentioned getting a place, it won't be long now..." Yeah, she may have mentioned "one day" getting a place, but he implied a move was imminent, you know?

Men feel stuck between a rock and a hard place and can just tune the rest of us out I think.

When I was newly married, my SS is the only one who acknowledged me at functions, etc. The girls were afraid to look disloyal to their mom.

Do you all think sometimes the biomoms are a little jilted and try to make it really rough on the other parent and step? Even though my DH's ex had the affair, I don't think she thought he'd ever leave. Though she 'hated' him, I'm not sure she wanted the marriage to end (it was her 3rd divorce, only one w/ kids.)

I also think sometimes the stepmoms get angry about the 'double dipping' money-wise that goes on. For me, I was furious that the kids BM sent them over one weekend w/ the ratty clothes on their backs and the youngest in NO shoes when she knew we had a function to attend. If it were me, I'd be way too embarrassed to do that, but this ex was a piece of work. Well, you can guess who was at the malls, dressing the kids, buying accessories and it wasn't cheap. My DH didn't get rubbed the wrong way as much as I did. Maybe the men let it roll off their backs or are thankful they're no longer w/ their X's and figure this is a small price to pay. I don't know...

More than you wanted...

Dana

Actually I've been thinking for quite a while now that my issues (and issues is a strong word...I'm hopeful that they're really just bumps in the road) are a mirror image of some of the SM/SD issues here. I see how some of the birth fathers are described by angry SMs and wonder "is that me? am I being an enabler of unacceptable behavior by my sons to my fiance?"

My situation: my fiance has been living with me & 2 teenage sons for several months. My older son and he have bonded and are very good together. My younger son is holding back. He's not disrespectful, but he's passively sending messages that he doesn't want a relationship with my fiance. As an example, DS wanted to play tennis, he came into the room where fiance and I were and asked (to the air) "anyone want to play tennis?". It was clear he didn't want to play with me, otherwise he would have asked me directly. There was no eye contact w/fiance, no simply asking fiance if he wanted to play. My response: "you'll have a much better game with fiance, why don't the 2 of you play?" They went off & played, but still with very little interaction on my son's part - a very odd thing if you can imagine a tennis game like this. This lack of eye contact, a reluctance to address my fiance directly, minimal responses to my fiance's attempts at conversation, are all part of my son's way of relating to him (or lack of relating). My guess is that my son feels loyalty to my ex, and that the ex is subtly encouraging this loyalty by never speaking to my fiance when their paths cross at the boys' events. Fortunately my fiance, while hurt by DS's actions, takes the long view and feels he's in the boys' lives for good, he can wait them out and will be there when they're ready for a closer relationship with him.

This is the kind of situation that, if left to fester, could easily turn into one of the very painful and difficult issues like those that are posted daily on this forum. What I've learned here (and THANK YOU everyone for giving your perspectives) is that it's important to look at what part I'm playing in this dynamic. Will I passively sit by and let my younger son hurt my fiance, or will I model the kind of behavior that I wish to see? That behavior is kindness: I can't force my younger son to "like" or be "best friends" with my fiance, but I can speak up when I see rudeness or subtle disrespect, and tell my son that this is not ok, this is not what our family is about, that we treat people with kindness rather than treating them as if they're invisible.

To me the value of this board has been in getting me to look at my actions in a new light. I think prior to my lurking here, I might have dimissed my son's actions and my fiance's hurt feelings, or tried to sweep them under the table. I know now that this is not right, that I have the ability to make changes to the family dynamics now before they escalate into unhappiness for everyone. I've learned much more here but will keep it to this for now.

Ann

KKNY hit it on the head.

Notabadstep, it's also noteworthy that KKNY is one of a few biological mothers that post on this forum. She can offer very valuable information on this subject especially since she's looking at the issue from a different perspective, that of a biological mother, in comparison to our perspective, that of stepmothers. She also has an ex-husband who chooses to spend little time with their daugther. However, in her case, her ex-husband is a weakling and caters to his girlfriend's whims and wishes.

thanks lonepiper!

everyone here is great. Even those who took a disliking to me and my posts.

but I read some of the posts to my DH and he rolled his eyes and said "women!" and he said you never will see guys posting about this crap. He may be right on that. I don't see any men posting boards about this stuff either.

I think guys just could care less. I look around and it really is only women who have issues. We really are too emotional for our own good sometimes huh?

Oh how I wish my husband was a woman and had a woman's sensitivity!! Well...that doesn't sound exactly how I meant it to sound!!! LOL!!

You sound like a great mom and a great fiance!! I think being the biological parent of a stepfamily would be more difficult than being the stepparent!!! The juggling act a biological parent must do to pacify everyone, children and spouse, looks pretty hard to me!!! If you do talk to your youngest about his attitude with your fiance, remember not to alienate him. He may feel like you're choosing your fiance over him. It boils down to a loyalty issue and your son expects you to be 100% loyal to him and you should be. And your fiance expects you to be 100% loyal to him and you should be. Combining it so that everyone feels loved is the key. But how to do that is the question we all have!! How long has your fiance been in the children's lives? It could just be a time issue that will eventually resolve itself on its own. Children need time to adjust and having a new man in the house is a huge adjustment.

I don't think they disliked you, I think that in these kinds of forums emotions tend to run high. Sometimes typing in a wrong word can cause an explosion of angry posts!! It's give and take here. Everyone has an opinion or something they want to share. And just because they don't agree with you and, even if you get into a typing war with them, doesn't mean that they dislike you. In one post you can be fighting with someone and the next post you are completely on the same page with them and they are sending encouraging thoughts and prayers in your direction!! My unasked for advice? Play nice, be honest and don't make blanket generalizations!!!

Hi lonepiper - thanks for your comments. You're right, the juggling act is a tough one. When my fiance first moved in, I did feel like I was caught in the middle. However I really credit the posters & stories here for giving me a wakeup call to reality (maybe some of you SMs who have issues with your DH's should have them spend a few hours on this site?? Could be eye-opening).

My fiance was in my kids' lives for over a year before he moved in. He's handled everything that's been thrown his way with great sensitivity, for which I'm grateful. I think if push really came to shove, my loyalties would be with my children, but fortunately I don't anticipate needing to make that choice, ever. I also met his adult son for the first time a couple of months ago when he visited for a weekend. We got along well and I especially liked his girlfriend who came along.

One thing we've been careful about is to not label anyone as a stepmother or father. I don't need to be seen as my fiance's son's stepmother (he's an adult after all - we can relate as adults), nor do I particularly want to have my kids attach the label of "stepfather" to my fiance. He's the man I love, and they can treat him kindly, but they have a father who's in their lives. I feel this label, in my specific situation anyway, is not going to be useful.

Hi Ann -
I think you are being very reasonable as to your expectations. One of the biggest mistakes DH & I made was in our expecations that his two adult children would accept me into their side of the family just as my two adult sons had accepted him into our side of the family. It hasn't happened in six years of trying and, therein, lies most of our hurts and heartaches with these two particular adult children. If I had to do it over again, I would distance myself much more than I did in the beginning, which I've found can alienate the children further. Since my DH & I are both "joiners" we were hoping that the four of us could get along and enjoy one another. It didn't happen. Yes, there are loyalty issues with the BM and it doesn't help that she continues to perpetrate them to this day. So we wait.

Another thing I would change if I could do things over is that I would not move into their family home. DH & I realized too late that this quickly became a battleground for his children and as changes were made, the BM got more involved with the dissing. It's been a 6 year rollercoaster ride.

Like I stated from the beginning, it will help that you don't have "step" expectations that everyone will become the Brady Bunch. And you are completely right in not allowing her children to disrespect or ignore your fiance - the sooner the children realize this, the better everyone will be. Civility, courteousness and polite conversation should be the norm.

My best to you!

Lonepiper...actually there are many bio-moms who post here, we just happen to be step-moms also. So, we have the unique perspective of being in both positions.

I am a bio mom and step mom so I can truly see both perspectives. I just have never felt the need to blame my ex's wife for his bad behavior. I didn't blame her when they had the affair (I felt he made vows to me, not her-and I really don't think she is anything special-if it wouldn't have been her, it would have been the next woman who was willng to buy his load of crap-I actually feel sorry for her), and I feel it is HIS complete responsibility that he doesn't see his son. So, because I am in both positions, I have a hard time with blaming the gf or the SM for dad's actions. I know some SM's put pressure on fathers to break off relationships with children, but I feel those men (I use the term loosely)should bear the brunt of the hurt and anger if they are too weak or complacent to stand up for themselves and their children.

I agree that the father should stand up for his children and not let a new wife get in the way of his relationship with them, but she is also in the wrong to try to prevent him from seeing his children. The father is sometimes basically left with the choice of divorcing his new wife in order to have a relationship with his children, or giving up his children. It is obvious to me which he should do, but some (many, most likely) men are reluctant to be alone, and others (eg. my kids' father) are reluctant to give up the gravy train. I can imagine them even convincing themselves that the "have" to stay married in order to be able to afford child support.

And the whole vow thing is irrelevant - I have never vowed not to steal my neighbor's car, but that wouldn't make it ok for me to do so.

I've been the SM and have MANY times put myself in DH's position. If I were divorced and had a bf or remarried and was given an ultimatum between my kids or the man - I'd have his bags so quickly packed he wouldn't know what hit him! Shame on any woman who tries to alienate a children from their father. Likewise for a man. I don't think any of here want to take a man away from his child. We just want the common courtesy they'd give to a stranger. If it can't happen, I think we'd at least like to see our DHs make attempts to have his children behave politely.

Ann, I think you also hit the nail on the head. BTW, I like that you have a name, too! I have tried to also learn from what I've read about here - learned a little bit on how to phrase things and to also validate the torn emotions caused when there's friction between me and his kids. Now that my Sd has moved out, I've seen her almost more in the past week than the last week she lived w/ us. Since we aren't shoved down one another's throats, our conversations are easier and I chose to entertain her, her sister, the guy friends, etc. I enjoyed it - it wasn't expected and it seemed to be appreciated.

Dana

I think all of you make an excellent point, but I think my deceased mother said it best: A mother "makes" the home and sets the tone for that home. The father is often oblivious to the emotional currents running through that home.

When my mother was first diagnosed with cancer, she wrote a letter to my father that we found after her death. In it, she wrote of her fears about his possible remarriage. She said, specifically, that she feared he would marry a woman who would not want his children around and would try to alienate him from us. She said she'd seen it happen many times to her neighbors, friends, relatives, etc. Then, of course, he went ahead and did just that.

It's really not a new phenomenon. Consider the fairy tales of our culture: Snow White, Cinderella, Hansel and Gretel, etc. etc. All deal with the problems of stepfamily relationships. And it's not because women are more emotional or more dramatic or any of those other things. It's because men are emotional cowards, preferring to close their ears and eyes to the pain in their families instead of dealing with it honestly.

In the case of young stepchildren, most of the "growing pains" involved with forming the family could be alleviated if the father simply stepped up to the plate shouldered his responsibilities. So many times, the beleaguered stepmother, new to the family and trying desperately to fit in and be liked, is instead made the family disciplinarian. The father tunes out, fails to stick up for his new wife, fails to discipline his own kids and set boundaries and fails to provide the structure his family needs. The stepchildren and stepmother are left to fight it out and fight they do. Then the man throws up his hands and says, "Women! They're so emotional."

So, Notabadstep, long answer short: Stepfamilies are a family dynamic, left to be solved by the female half of the family. Not surprisingly, it doesn't often work.

In my experience its because the BM is jealous or threatened and uses the child as the bargaining tool to get her own way. Unfortunatly the man doesnt want to loose contact with the child so does his little dance to keep everyone happy. primarily himself. he can deal with the new wife as she is with him 24/7. he cant deal with the ex cos she has powere over him.

Mum 23, what has your BM done that you say she is using child as bargaining tool?

lilysuzanne40 you are so right....you really hit the nose on the head... your insight into the situation is refreshing. Men need to take resposibility for their children and their families. As women (bm,sm,d) we should encourage this type of behavior instead of always trying to fight there battles for them.

I agree you, doubts, about lilysuzanne. I'm so sorry this happened to her - how old were you, lily, when you lost your dear mother?

mum23 - there is a huge amount of divorce poisoning that goes on, too. I think men usually do not have the same time w/ the children, so the BMs have much more exposure to the kids and can do more to help or hinder the chilren's relationship w/ their father. If they want to, they can really damage that relationship. I'm sorry you have gone through this w/ the BM in your case. I did, too, but after a few years, things did improve. Keep the faith.

Dana

Why would the man be able to deal with someone with whom he has to contend 24/7, yet his ex-Wife has power over him? It is much easier to ignore someone you don't live with.

I think the men are more willing to upset the woman they live with 24/7 because the SM is not out to turn their children against them. I know in my case, my DH will bend over backward to not upset his ex, because anytime he does, she involves the girls in the argument and they feel forced to pick sides. (we know this because my DH is still very close to his ex bro in law (he is married to BM's sister) and he tells us what BM calls and reports to his wife, and her sister has witnessed BM degrading my DH in front of the kids. He knows I will eventually get over it because I love him. He knows she despises him and will do anything to hurt him if he doesn't give in to her.

But if the man's current wife gets angry at him, she is likely to a)not allow his kids to visit, b)kick him out and leave him homeless and broke, or at a minimum, c)make his life miserable. It is easy to ignore an ex-wife - even if she tried to contact him, he can simply not respond to email or phone messages. Why would he care if his kids did side with his wife? - he would still get visitation. If the kids let him know they are angry with him, he can embarrass/terrify them into silence by bellowing at them in public as my exH does. My kids are well aware that they have to go to dinner with him whether they want to or not, and they definitely prefer not to be embarrassed in front of their fellow students and neighbors. They are well aware that they have to thank his wife for every gift they receive from him, because, as he always tells them, she is the one who actually pays for them. If they do not, he, and occasionally she, will yell at them both in public and by calling them on MY phone. There is nothing I could have ever said to them that would have estranged them from their father and caused them to detest her as much as my exH's and his wife's behavior has.

Theotherside. How can a man ignore the mother of his child when she uses contact to keep him in check?
My sd's bio mum is a control freak. Was when they were married and still is. I tried to organise a party for my sd at our house and invite some of her school friends. SD was so excited. It was to be a themed tea party and she was going to choose the theme. Barbie, animals, under water adventure, you know the kind. She had chosen a novelty cake for me to make, a girl sat ontop a pile of presents wrapped with a bow. The girl represented my sd.
It was obvious she told mum of our plans as the following weekend we had the call to say SD didn't want to come. I insisted hubby talk to sd and suggest if she didnt come, we would have trouble getting the invitations done as we wern't to familiar with who she considered friends. She was with us like a shot! Very happy and oblivious to the sudden urge to not want to come.
The following weekend, BM called again but this time hubby was fobbed off saying sd was upstairs playing and she wasn't going to disturb her.
The following weekend, sd birthday, she should have been surrounded by friends but she wasn't. It was so sad. I suggested that perhaps we could make up for it and take some of her friends on a picnic. her response? My mum doesn't think it's a good idea to have my friends at your house.
I am a BM myself, and I have encouraged my kids to have a relationship with dads G/F. They have more fun with a woman anyway. My motherhood is not threatened in any way. This is my kids home and they love me. I dont need them to feel guilty, or loyal, they are allowed to love us both.

Dear Mum,

Your DH's custody or visitation rights are his, not yours. It seems to me that you are coming on a little strong. When you say you have encouraged your kids to have a relationship with dad's GF -- that is a little more. When you say "this is my kids home" -- are you referring to your stepchildren?

yes they are Dh's rights but when it comes down to organising parties and things that mums usually do, he looks to me and I am happy to do that. I support him with everything he does, and don't feel I come on too strong at all. How have you made that assumption? Should I have allowed him to just accept his child does not want to come? I am the one who has to see him upset, and aren't we supposed to be supportive to each other? This is where the step parent situation becomes so confusing. Should I behave in a manner that when his child visited, he took time off work to take and collect from school? he prepares her meals? He helps her dress in the morning? Should I say 'your daughter you deal?' or 'don't involve me I've got my own kids to sort out?'

When I say my kids home I mean my own children. My daughter visits her dad 3-4 times a year. he lives in a 2 bed house, the 2nd bedroom is my sons. My daughter doesnt have a bedroom or personal space when she visits so has always refferred to it as dads house. Our house is where her bedroom is, her personal posessions, where she spends most of her time.

I am not assuming anything -- but from your interactions with child it seems to me that you are coming on very strong. And gloating when Dad wont let child talk to mom. I think as you described the party it seemed like you were trying to buy child's love. I think you should have taken things slower. Let her have one friend first.

But back to the original question:

It seems that most of the issues surround the 3 women and 1 man. You never really hear of stepson issues or stepfather/bio father issues too much.

I believe it's a sampling issue. The vast majority of posters are stepmothers, so it's natural that most of the issues would be ones that concern them. How many men actually post here, bio or otherwise? All you men out there who are lurking - welcome, and please feel free to give us your perspectives.

Ann

There are many bio mothers who don't care about the court order. Yes, the BF could present the order with the police at her house, and truly upset the kids with a huge scence, but most fathers are not willing to put their children in that situation. And, I don't know who these weak men are, but there is NO WAY IN HELL my DH would allow me to tell him his kids could not come over. Listen, we need to all stop blaming the SM's in these situations. There is no man in the world that would tell me I couldn't see my kids. If I had to go live in a homeless shelter, I would not abandon my kids. These men are weak, impotent beings and need to man up. They are allowing themselves to be treated that way, and that is their responsibility.

Lafevem is right on. So many of us SMs have seen BMs use the kids every inch of the way. If our DH upsets her, you can bet he'll suffer by 'something' coming up on his next weekend w/ the children. DHs do figure the new wives will get over it. We can't and won't hurt them if we have children together. We're not going to divorce him over something so stupid. But, the ex and their children have him over a barrel when he's the NCP. I don't know how the BMs here ex's behaved, but my DH was always excited to have his chidren visit. I mean, just a few short years earlier, they were under one roof. It's a shame, really, that the crazy ongoings go on.

Take heart, SMs and Dads. The stepkids do grow up and when they do, you might see them a little more than you bargained for - just kidding! I find it ironic that my skids are WAY closer to us than to their mother, whom they were so loyal to in the early years. Maybe her confessing about her affair gave them a rude awakening, or maybe they do see Dad as the one who butters their bread. I'm the jury and I'm still undecided, but really hoping that we've proven we're together for the long haul, are 'there' for the kids every step of the way, and the ones they can count on in a pinch. BM hasn't done any of those things consistently.

BTW, I heard she doesn't approve of YSD's bf living w/ them. I believe she and her bf are sharing the master, OSD who lived w/ us has the second bedroom. I have to laugh since this is the same BM who moved her former bf in w/ her and the kids when they were teenagers, was 5 mo. pg when DH married her, is now divorced 3 times. I'm not trying to judge here, just stating that it's typical of her to be the first to cast stones, despite a less than holy past. She's very quick to condemn us all ~ Dana.

My experience has been that it is more common than not for fathers to largely abandon their children if their new love interest does not want them around. It is probably less common for mothers to abandon their children under such circumstances, but it is not infrequent.

Both father and stepmother are to blame. If someone tried to hire a hit man to do in her uncle, would you say that we need to stop blaming the person doing the hiring, because the hit man could and should have said "no?"

In my situation it has been my ex who has done damage to my kids. They were at an age where I could talk to them. We even sat the kids down and explained dad was going to live with granny for a while. When things got worse and I actually enjoyed being on my own with the kids and I didn't want him back, I explained to the kids that it is mums fault because she just didnt love daddy any more. I didn't want them thinking it was down to them. Obviously over time, unfortunatly, they understand why I left him. He wasnt good to me, but he is (sort of) good with the kids. He loves them and thats enough.
My husband is great with my kids. he has had the odd run in with my son, 18, but so do I, constantly lol!
My son lives with his dad and he treats my son the same way he treated me. Always working, never home etc.
I know my husband gets annoyed when my son visits us because my son uses his shampoo. he told me my son should bring his own! My answer, this is as much my sons home as it is yours. I never insisted his daughter brought her own wash bag when she came to stay.
The complicated dynamics is hard when part of a step family. Women are very emotional and complex, men often want to keep the peace. My husband is keeping his child and I apart at this time. She doesn't want to see me. he just cannot cope with the conflict and her attitude when she is here. It would completly finish our marriage because we are BOTH tired of the constant struggle. YOur kids, my kids and evil ex wife!

theotherside you are so paranoid about gf/sm relationship with your ex...... what is up with that....obviously your parenting style is different from your exes... leave it at that and stop trying to blame every seemingly negative thing on her. It is not wrong to be polite and say thank you.....you're putting a negative twist on everything for no reason......i said thank you for everything i recieved from my bioparents because that's how i was raised.....to be polite

Doubts 07 -- if this email is your polite style -- OK

As TOS has made clear, her X has no parenting style -- its not that is different.

My dear friends..ignore those who are pulling your pigtails, and once they see they get no reaction, they will leave you alone.

Given your tendency to publicly mock and ridicule those that have different opinions, I wouldn't be too quick to point fingers...

And in regards to your previous post:

"Lonepiper...actually there are many bio-moms who post here, we just happen to be step-moms also. So, we have the unique perspective of being in both positions."

Just because you have a foot in both camps doesn't mean you are qualified and/or in a position to offer valuable information on either position.

Thank you for your opinion. You are certainly entitled to not heed any advice I offer. I will not be bullied by you or other negative posters. People come onto this board to post their issues, and they deserve to not be targeted. For example, one poster came on today asking for ideas for summer activities for her step-children. I saw there were 4 replies and I was actually excited to see what other people do in the summer. When I opened the thread, it was full of "it's none of your business"-not exactly what the post was asking for. So, I will continue to offer my opinions-all are free to take them or leave them-but my posts never begin negatively and any post I have made with a negative remark is in defense of myself. So, thank you for attempting to be forum moderator, lonepiper. I know we all appreciate it.

Lafevem, I'm sorry. I realized after I posted my previous message to you that it wasn't fair and I sincerely apologize. I was angry and felt that you were attempting to bait and demean certain posters when they were only stating their opinions.

I apologize for my childishness.

And in regards to your previous post:

"Lonepiper...actually there are many bio-moms who post here, we just happen to be step-moms also. So, we have the unique perspective of being in both positions."

Just because you have a foot in both camps doesn't mean you are qualified and/or in a position to offer valuable information on either position

In response to this post: I don't believe any of us passed a "qualification exam" before we came on this board. I believed this was a place for people to come, hear other people's stories and advice, and then sort through it for themselves. You are right, I have no formal qualifications, but I can talk about my successes and failures and hope they help someone else. That is my intent, not to discourage people who truly want to talk or need help.

I mentioned no particular poster in my comment, so if anyone felt I was speaking to them, then perhaps they should check their motives. I actually am glad you said what you did. You are exactly right- I am no more qualified than anyone else to answer any of these questions, and have determined this is not the place for me. I came to the forum looking for help for my family and this has turned into s BM vs. SM forum, and a debate about finances most of the time. I was looking for support and more and more of the responses seem to be bitter and negative. The responses are about putting a SM in her place and making sure we realize we are nothing other than babysitters. I have enough of that in my daily life without getting more here. I have appreciated "getting to know" many posters-vista, cawfe, and angelz, to name a few, and wish you all the best.

Okay, everybody.

Get over it and move on.

You're acting like a bunch of crazy women.
It's only a web-site.

I didn't mean to make her leave... I lost my temper and snapped, which is no excuse whatsoever. I tried to apologize for my immaturity but the damage was done... I don't mean to act like a "forum moderator," I just want to state my opinion like everyone else.

Back to the original subject (LOL)....I agree that it is because woman set the emotional tone of the family. Men, God love them, can be clueless! My husband is a Ph.D., but when it comes to subleties and undercurrents, he kind of misses the boat....! When I first started dating him I was appalled at how often his daughter would call for a ride....when it was supposed to be her week at her mother's house. Why was I appalled? Because they convinced him that it was wonderful to have the privelege to drive her all over town at her whim because he didn't get to see her much otherwise......instead of him realizing that they were simply USING him when BM didn't feel like going out to get her. Otherwise, she ignored the visitation schedule and wouldn't stay with him when she was expected to....or even be kind towards her father. THAT got me talking to him about setting boundaries (c'mon, on one of our first dates she called and asked him to come get her -- even though it was "mom's weekend")....it only went downhill from there because when he started to set boundaries for BM (telling HER to take care of the kids when she was supposed to)....she bucked and then turned the daughter against him....made everything "Daddy is doing this to US....he is mean....things sure have changed since SHE came around...." Yeah, things did change....otherwise, I'd be in a polygamist marriage (minus one marriage license...)!!

So yeah, in my case -- the emotions....she likes to manipulate and torment, I react.....I set limits...

And, by the way, I also explained to my DH that for his kids' sake, he needed to set boundaries with BM because otherwise the children would react to her manipulations and whining too....they needed to see that BM should not get everything she wants because she cries or shouts "You hurt my feelings....."

jerseystepmom,

But if I understand your post correctly, now his relationship with his daughter is more difficult and he sees less of her. I don't see that as an improvement.

Perhaps his daughter enjoyed calling him for a ride so SHE could spend more time with him. There was not necessarily an ulterior motive, and even if that were the case, it had a positive result.

In any case, if your H doesn't want to set boundaries with his children, that is HIS business, not yours.

I am bothered by the comments I have seen on this forum for a number of posters that implied that men are stupid. My impression is that too often women, in stepfamilies and intact families, tend to take over unnecessarily, so the father basically learns incompetence.

theotherside: his relationship with his daughter is at an all-time low. As for the ride issue, I feared that if taken out of context would appear to be a bad example. You have to understand ALL the things that BM has done (and not done) during the course of the marriage and raising their children to understand the situation. She never took care of the kids....always left the actual parenting things to him. When they divorced, she expected that to continue and it simply could not -- he was now a single Dad trying to make a living (to help support the kids because she was fired from her job....) AND take care of the kids. They lived nearby and SD would walk over, take food out of the frig and then go back to her mom's. If asked to hang out to eat the food, no....gotta get back to Mom's. Whenever he asked to spend time with her -- she had something going on with her mother and the answer was no.

And I disagree 100% with your comment that if he doesn't want to set boundaries it is HIS business, not mine. His choosing to have a life with me means that I am also part of the equation and that I must be considered. Conversely, my life is not the same one I had before I married into this family....I have to do car pool, driving to friend's houses, food shopping, making dinner, etc. etc. so one cannot tell me I should do those things, but have no say or boundaries in my own home.

I don't think men or my husband is stupid. My husband is a very smart man, but when it comes to emotional issues or sensitivities, he doesn't always catch on . . . dumb? no...but he was raised with different a different focus. Last summer when I was having a horrible time with my 19 y/o SD living with us and breaking every rule she could, my sister pulled me aside and said it is too late for you to save that girl -- the damage is done. When I said that I was angry that HE let her get this out of control without taking control over from her mother my sister reminded me that in most homes (hers included), it is usually the mother who imparts the values and manners and who tends mostly to the children....the men do their part, but it has a different focus (earning a living and taking care of his family that way). I understand this is a very traditional way of looking at it, but it is true in many cases! And, I'm hardly a "traditional" woman, I was a career woman with no kids at 40! Yet when I married my DH, I immediately began doing the caregiving, organizing of schedules, trying to do as much as I could so my SS could be a child and feel safe and secure in our home and so that my husband could focus on work). It's like a weird gene that I can't control! (also why I have meltdowns from time to time because my body (mood) tells me I can't do it all before I actually realize it!!)

"She never took care of the kids....always left the actual parenting things to him. When they divorced, she expected that to continue and it simply could not -- he was now a single Dad trying to make a living (to help support the kids because she was fired from her job....) AND take care of the kids."

This is what is expected of virtually every female single parent, and the vast majority are able to accomplish it. Single mothers around the world parent their children while working one or more jobs to support them. There is no one there to allow us to "focus on our work."

When both my H and I were working full-time when the kids were young, we SHARED the parenting and the household chores more or less equally.

There is absolutely no reason why a father can not raise his children while working full-time.

I work full time. My X spends no time with DD, minimal time on weekends (maybe a lunch or dinner). I drive her to meet him.

As to your and your sisters comments re SD is a lost cause, and that this is generally the mothers fault, let me remind you that you said dad had primary child rearing responsiblity.

I feel sorry for the SD.

I would not expect either of you to understand and I don't have the time or desire to explain our entire situation. My husband had all the "work" associated (drive, cook, buy food, pay bills), but got none of the good stuff because BM poisoned her daughter against him......even I got angry with him about SD because he didn't intervene more, but I know the BM and it would not have been possible to save the girl from her mother........and he still had a son to shelter and take care of. Again, I don't expect you to understand.......

As for being a lost cause.....SD made a pact with the devil and she knew it, but it was easier because she got whatever she wanted and was NEVER accountable for any of her actions.......and at 19/20....she is old enough to recognize these things (and admitted to them, but it's easier for her this way).

I also feel sorry for the SD and my SS....that they were the offspring of such a pathetic creature. They had things thrust upon them that no child should have to endure.....but at least my SS has me and his father and is flourishing with us.....we couldn't save both kids, but we did save one (BTW, my DH wants to help his daughter, but it's like trying to make an alcoholic want to quit drinking......THEY have to want to make things better...you cannot force them or do the hard work for them)

It might be valuable to realize that all of us are coming from our own experiences. It might also be beneficial to keep in mind that some people - adults and children alike - could possibly suffer from a personality disorder which would automatically make it much more difficult to have a good relationship with this person. Sometimes we're quick to feel sorry for a child, thinking if their parent only spent more time with them or "loved them more", everything would be alright. Sometimes there is only so much a parent can try to do to have a good relationship with an older child/young adult. Sometimes that child must come to a place where they want to get help and become a more loving and caring person before they are able to work through childhood resentments towards a parent. My point is that it's possible there can be situations where there are a lot of gray areas when it comes to relationship issues between a parent and a child.