Well My DH's new modified order: BM is to pay 143 a month for 2 boys which I think is ridiculously low.

I know most of my friends who are divorced with children average about 300 per child per month. But those are all father paying mother...

I am in NY and I get $150 a week for my son. BD pays 1/2 of the after school care during the school year which is $185 so he pays like $90 a month for that. He also carried my DS on his insurance until I got married and put my DS on my DH's insurance because it was better. BD will also pay half of registration fees and stuff like that for sports and things that my DS wants to do.

I hope that helps!

Sieryn - $143 a month? For 2 children? That's not even $72/month per child! That's crazy! How can you afford that and how can she get away with that? That doesn't even cover the fuel costs to shuttle them back-and-forth from place to place in a month.

Ashley, where I live CS is also based on what each parent earns. So if CP earns much more than NCP, then there will be little CS, if any. On the other hand, if NCP makes less, there will be much more CS.

It also depends on what is agreed upon. The lead singer of Jonathan's band and his wife divorced during the big Kid Rock tour. He had two children with her and at the time they ere making BANK. Kid Rock....HELLO! So he agreed to a grand a month for two kids because back then he could afford it. A GRAND A MONTH!!!

Well, now the band is not together anymore, no less touring and the courts are after him to pay back support. He has warrants out for him and can't play in any bars untill he can get a court date to modify the support or he'll get arrested.

Ashley, you asked me on the other thread, how much it costs to raise SD9 because we have her full time.

I spend more than $300 a month just to transport her for the visitation. Her counselor adds another $80 a month. Her school lunches is $2.50 a day. Her bus to school is $155 a year. Girls Scouts, I spend at least $25-50 a month on various things. Karate, the same. When she gets invited to a friend's birthday party, there goes another $20. (and all the other things like Halloween costume, school functions & fundraisers, run a thon, read a thon, book orders, book faire's, field trips, etc) She spent $50 on the Santa workshop at school. Every time she gets sick, we pay her doctor's co-pay and the cost of prescription. We paid for school pictures and ID cards (ident-a-kid). School clothes and the increase in utility costs & groceries. I'd say it costs well over the measly $216 that her mom is now supposed to pay but doesn't. Instead of paying the $216 a month and kissing the ground that it's not more, she threatens to take him back to court to get custody... so, we also have the added cost of $300 an hour for our attorney. Just in the last two years, we have spent $13K on our attorney and DH just got the newest bill... another $3500. for the three child support hearings they had. The first was continued because she didn't show up, but phoned it in. The second one was continued because she showed up but had none of her pay stubs or proof of income and needed more time. So, we get to the third hearing and she didn't show up and the court made an order based on the info they had at the first hearing. So, in addition to the day to day cost of raising her, should we also factor in the cost of maintaining custody???

And not only does she not want to pay support, BM increases our costs by keeping SD's good school clothes and sending her back with crap. She will send her back to us with no socks and keep the good clothes she picks her up in on Fridays because she gets her from school and we send her to school in nice clothes.(well, she sends her mom to get her because she either doesn't want to take the time to get her own daughter, or she would rather her mom bear the expense... seeing how gas is well over $4.00 a gallon) but she sends her back in cutoff shorts that are her older daughter's hand me downs and no socks. We had lost shoes there too but I got her a cheap 'weekend' pair to wear on Friday's and the one weekend SD forgets to wear her weekend shoes but takes her nice school shoes, she brings them back ruined. They come back looking like she buried them in dirt and scraped the top of them across pavement. Then expected us to run out and buy SD new shoes. She hasn't paid DH a penny since he took custody.

Sieryn, THAT IS RIDICULOUSLY LOW!!! The first order ever made for my two younger kids was $72 a month each, which is $144 a month for two kids. That was in 1990 and based on minimum wage in 1990... I think it was $3.45 an hour at the time. I love it when Judge Judy says "you can't feed a medium size dog for that!" My older son's dad was ordered to pay $196 a month but never paid. He owes me quite a bit now. My son is now 21. I am now receiving back support for my middle son of $300 a month, but he is now 19. My daughter's father was ordered to pay $72 a month but also never paid. When he worked, they would start to take it from his paychecks and he'd quit. I think the most I received was in the last two years. I get about $65 a week and until she turned 18, $72 was for current support and the rest went to arrears. Now, she is 18 and all is arrears. Several years ago, I offered to forgive all his back support if he would maintain a relationship with her. He promptly moved out of state and didn't tell us. When we finally found him again, he has pleaded with her to establish a relationship and she has refused. She legally changed her name to remove his last name from her and she wants nothing to do with him. I don't know if his pleading for a relationship now has anything to do with my offer to wipe his slate clean, but that offer is off the table. Every penny he pays goes into a savings account that i set up for her sole benefit.

On the subject of child support, I think it's terribly wrong that a non custodial parent would rather spend their money on say, their car rather than their child. My SD's mom is happy to spend almost $400 a month on her new truck. She won't send us half her counseling costs, which is $40. let alone the now ordered support of $216. I think the courts should look at what they spend on themselves (cars, boats, motorcycles, etc.) and take that into consideration when determining what their children deserve.

and I've said it before, I'll say it again... if both parents have 50/50 time with the child and both are providing a room, food, clothing, and toys, then there should be NO child support. They should share some of the extra costs like medical care and school expenses, but that's what I think is fair. That's just my little opinion.

KKNY - My state is the same way. The problem I faced in my divorce is that BD was at a job making decent money when we filed. He quit that job right before we went to court and got a new job making minimum wage just so his CS would be based on minimum wage. In my state, they doo not take into consideration CP's wages.

IMA

The court doesn't make BIO mom at LEAST half responsible for transportation for visits?! That is utterly ridiculous. You guys have her kids because she dumped them and now YOU gare the ones who have to flip the bill for her visitation. I have no faith in the system. I bet if she was the CP your husbands behind would of been slammed for not paying support AND he'd be paying for the transportation as well. There's a double standard there. It maks me ill. I think I'm going to join Father's for Equal Rights too....hahahaha.

Just for the record, my FDH makes about average money for our area. He pays $760/month for his 1 child. He has never complained about it and he is glad to do whatever he needs to do to. BM makes about $180,000 a year and the SF makes about $90,000 a year. Much much more than we make.

Yet she still nickel-and-dimes us. We have to buy school pics from her. I was using a bat that belonged to FSD about 3 years ago. She hadn't used it in 3 years and it was just sitting at our house in a bag of softball gear. Just a couple of weeks ago BM calls and wants us to send the bat back with FSD on the plane. You can't carry on a softball bat on a plane! So we had to check it. Why can't they just buy her a new one? Why did they need this one? All it is is another way to be greedy.

I did not throw in the bat story for discussion on this thread. I just threw it in there as an example as to how BM is greedy.

LOL, Doodle!

BTW, when I was getting treated badly by my X last year, I searched everywhere for a mothers for equal rights type organization. I have yet to find one. I guess they always think the moms get the upperhand. But let me tell you all something that I've learned: when someone has nothing to lose, there's nothing that will stop them. X could be as big of a pain as he wanted to me because he was already at rock bottom.

Would rock bottom be sitting in rehab, no husband, children being raised by another woman, said woman is pregnant with Ex's baby, probably gonna lose apartment and car because I've ran off all my decent friends.

If this is rock bottom I had better watch my back because BIOCRAZY is there right now. I am a horrible person to think thats funny but BY GOD she has put herself there and I have no more sympathy to give that woman. She's going o come at me with a meat cleever one of these days...she already has once with my hubby:) HAHAHA. No seriously, she went after him with a butcher knife once. And people on this site fault me for calling her a nut. TISK. TISK.

Doodle, BM is the one that chose to move away so we shouldn't have to do ANY transport. However, We were happy that she was giving him custody (it's what he wanted in the first place and why they had a five month custody battle that cost $13K) so when she moved, he tried to be as reasonable as possible so he gave her almost every weekend (instead of every other) and they split the transport. She picks up SD on Friday. We pick her up on Sunday. Well, BM got either got tired of taking the time to come get her daughter or she didn't want the expense anymore, so she started sending her mom. Her mom lives an hour away from us so she has to drive an hour here to get SD and then drives her three hours to BM (unless BM meets her halfway) and then drives back home. I find it ridiculous that her mom would do that for her... once or twice, sure. But every weekend for months?? We're hoping she gets tired of it and BM will have to do it herself. If she has to come get her herself, she starts canceling weekends.

Doodle - I'm definitely thinking that BM has hit rock bottom. And I would say that you both should be prepared for the best possible outcome and the worse. If she's already at rock bottom, there's nothing stopping her from showing her true feelings. And the kids will be in the fallout.

I hope and pray for the best possible scenario for you.

Ashley, Splitting all the household bills by 3 doesn't give an accurate picture of the child's financial needs. The child's expenses are the costs above what it would cost if there were only two people in the home. For instance, the mortgage/rent for a one bedroom is xxx and a two bedroom is 100. per month more. The NCP's share of the child's housing cost then is the 100. minus the amount the custodial parent is responsible for. Same goes for utilities, food costs, above what the costs would be for two people as those are the costs you incur for your own ongoing support, for which he is not responsible. Child support is calculated according to a state guideline based on the payor's (and sometimes the payee's) income. If he is paying CS and insurance, I'm not sure what you mean by "he doesn't help out with anything." The sports/activities/clothing/shoes costs you mentioned are to be shared by the parents and the dad's share is included in the child support. Courts do not normally award more money than the guidelines allow unless you have a special needs child. HTH.

IMA

That sucks. So either way you go either you and hubby end up paying in cash or SD pays by not getting to see her mom. Biomom sounds like a ding-bat. I feel for you guys.

Ashley

Sadly we are expecting the worse. Prior actions dictate to ALWAYS expect the worse with her. We are also trying to help the girls understand that just because mommy is at the "doctor's" doesn't mean she's going to get better.

Not only is it ridiculously low, she doesn't pay it!

How much does it cost to raise them...lets see having them living with us increases my food bill by 250+ a month, 25 per doctors appointment, 200 a year for sports, 800 a year for the bus, 400 a month in daycare for the seven year old...

thats roughly 5200 a year extra - not counting clothes, higher utilities, birthday parties, friend activities etc...so I'd say probably closer to 8 or 9g a year.

If Mom paid total support we'd only get a little over 1700 a year on this.

Its not that she's poor KKNY -- she's a CPA who CHOOSES to make minimum wage at 2 jobs...

Her biggest contribution in the last three years has been a pair of tennis shoes for each of them....

Believe me, I am fully aware of how the CS is calculated. I am asking about people's real-world lives; not what the court thinks a divorced family's life should look like. I'm not concerned with the coldness of the law. I can tell you that $316/month barely touches the "the costs above what it would cost if there were only two people in the home". Plus, if we were still an intact family, he would be helping pay those extra costs anyway.

Yes--but, if you were in an intact family, there wouldn't be two households to run. Per "real world lives," many of us, intact households or not, struggle to make ends meet. We need to cut back on expenses or find higher paying/second jobs. When I was a single mom, I went to college full time and worked part time. We had no child support/custody orders by choice. My ex and I just handled the finances/kids according to our abilities. Yeah, I carried the bigger load and went without a lot, but it wasn't worth arguing with my kids' dad over. Their relationship with each other was far more important than money, and no one starved. As adults, they are still very close to their dad and their dad and I remain cordial. I dunno how much money that is worth--I'm guessing more than a few dollars a month child support. I think that is very reasonable. So, there's one real world life example.

As I was driving three hours to pick up SD at 2pm, I realized that all summer, I have had to leave at 11am and I get back after 5pm every Friday. Therefore, I want to add onto the cost of transporting SD, the income I lose by not being available to work. I was halfway to her house when I got a call from an attorney that wanted me to do a rush service call that I would have made about $115-140 on but I had to turn it down. Since the beginning of summer, I have had to turn down a few jobs on Fridays and not being able to work on Fridays also has me behind on my regular jobs. So, that's just another impact.

Just thought I'd rant about it.... I hate turning down work.

Gini, it's wonderful that you and your ex were friendly enough to do that. My husband and his ex didn't have a court order until their daughter was 8 years old. They split up when she was 1. It appeared they were one of those rare set of parents that got along well enough to not need a court order. However, they only got along as long as he did what she said. If he didn't agree with her, then she'd threaten to take his daughter away. He'd back down and she got her way. I guess he could have continued with it that way for his daughter's sake. But, he had real fears that she would up and leave the state with his daughter and make it hard for him to establish his rights and once he got together with me, she went ballistic on him over every little thing. It takes two to want to be in a peaceful, cordial relationship. Or it takes one that is willing to be the doormat while the other walks all over you. (and there's nothing wrong with that if you are willing to live with any consequence, such as the other parent taking your child away)

It would be a much nicer world to live in if all parents could do the right thing and get along for the sake of the kids. My dad tolerated a lot from my mom and gave her more than he needed to for his kids. That works when both parents think their relationship with their child is more important than money. My dad did, my mom didn't. No matter how much my dad gave, my mom was never happy with it. She was one of those ex wives that didn't work at all after the divorce and expected him to pay for it all. They are still cordial, but only because my dad has set up his boundaries with her and she will still test to see if she can get away with more than he will allow. No matter how cordial they are, it doesn't fool anyone and we all know that she has been difficult and he is seen as a saint for putting up with her.

I haven't posted much in the last year, just lurked, since things have been going fairly well. Okay, I'll admit, the threads about teens and summer jobs touched a nerve. SS21 has one year of college left, and has yet to work any kind of job - the summer job he fabricated at UPS last year doesn't count. SS18 received over $3500 in graduation money, so insists that since he doesn't need the money, he shouldn't have to get a summer job. But I've disengaged from that aspect of parenting, and let DH handle it.

I did want to share a CS story that I know I've shared in the past, but I still get such a kick out of it. DH's ex initially had residential custody and received $4,000/month for 2 boys, plus $4,000/month in maintenance, for a total of $8,000. When she remarried and the boys came to live with us, she lost the CS, but not the maintenance, which decreased on a sliding scale every year after her remarriage.

When SS21 was a freshman in college, she was still receiving I think about $1,500/month in maintenance. She bought him two NorthFace coats (we had sent him to college with only one), and called me asking for reimbursement. Because, as she said, she "wasn't getting child support anymore." I said, "Honey, SS is 18. No one gets child support for him. Anything you buy him is a gift. Besides, you do still get maintenance." Her response? "But that's MY money!" I didn't even know what to say to that!

I do live in a high cost of living area - about thirty percent higher than the national average. Ima, it is irrelevant that not all my children are minors now - they were at the time of the separation agreement.

Two children eat twice as much as one; their extracurricular activities are twice as much as for one child; if you have one child, or two of the same sex, you could manage in a two bedroom place; I don't know how I would have fit my six kids in anything smaller than the three to four bedroom place home in which I live, especially since the largest bedroom is 11x11. A cheap five passenger car doesn't cut it when you have a family of seven. Economies of scale really don't apply when it comes to raising children.

"Plus, if we were still an intact family, he would be helping pay those extra costs anyway."

I agree with this statement.

It is not necessarily the case that divorce creates two household where there once was one. In my case, there were two households - my family and the OW's family. After my H moved in with her, there were still two households. The difference was that there was a net per capita transfer of income to her household from mine.

theotherside

Maybe I misinterpreted OP. It was my understanding that she is asking about current situations, not what you went through years ago when all your kids were minors.... Not everyone has 6 kids. I think your situation is a little unique in that perspective.

I also think your perspective toward your husband leaving your household and moving into his OW's household is also unique. So, if he left his income with you but physically lived with his OW, would that have been acceptable to you? I mean, his OW has enough money that he is able to shirk his responsibility to his kids by quitting his job or lowering his income. So, it would be the same as if he quit his job and remained married to you... his income would be gone too. Would you have been okay with that?

The OP said that she received $316 a month for four years, from 2003 - 2007. My situation may be unusual, but that doesn't mean it is ok to deprive children of support just because there aren't very many families with that many children.

No, of course it wouldn't be ok for him to have moved in with the OW and left his income with his family - but at least we wouldn't have been struggling financially. Actually, we discussed having him be a SAHD on more than one occasion - that would have been ok with me. However, in that case he would have been HOME with the children.

IMA, I understand that both parents have to work together for the children and often refuse to do so. That is sad--especially when there is actually little money at stake. For me, choosing the father of my children very carefully was paramount. My ex would never do anything to hurt his kids or need a court order to take care of them; even now, in their late 20s, they are the center of his life.

Unfortunately, the system encourages hostility/resentment by those who feel they are due more, as the OP, and those who feel they are charged with paying too much, likely as the OP's ex. Imagine if all custody orders were default 50/50 (absent real abuse/neglect issues) and no child support changed hands. Of course, if one parent didn't want 50/50, they would have to compensate the other according to need/ability. Or, imagine if split families were ordered to provide for their children according to need, as intact families are, and not mandated to spend a percentage of their income on their children. I know I would not be a happy camper if DH and I had to go to court every three years, tax returns in hand, to make sure we were spending enough on our kids. Ha, I can just see our 13 and 15 yr olds begging the judge for more toy money!

"Imagine if all custody orders were default 50/50 (absent real abuse/neglect issues) and no child support changed hands"

Truly, this is how it SHOULD be. Unfortunately, when one parent moves away or doesn't want their child 50% of the time, then that doesn't work out.(it also doesn't work out to 'no child support' when one parent chooses not to work or the other parent makes significantly more money) Children are entitled to have both parents... it has nothing to do with the parents right to have the child with them. I think the courts are beginning to realize that and I am seeing more and more 50/50 custody orders. It may be years or decades for it to become the 'norm' but hopefully it will catch on. It would be nice if parents were as committed to their children as they are to their own happiness. There are far too many parents that willingly leave their children or move their children away from the other parent for the parent's wants when it's not always what's best for the child.

In a perfect world, parents would be willing to share in the cost of raising their children and they would never disagree on what the kids need or who should pay for it. They would share custody and everyone would get along. Of course, in a perfect world, people would only get married when they were sure that getting married is the right thing to do, they would take their time to make sure they are marrying the right person and they would take their vows seriously and stay married. Then there wouldn't be an issue with who should pay what.

You got that right, ima! My DD's father's first words out of his mouth as we began negotiating C&V was, "I don't want her."

Former DP paid his ex about $750/month for 1 child that spent 50% of her time living with us. And she makes considerably more than him. That's part of the reason he never had money to pay his share of our bills.

"Unfortunately, the system encourages hostility/resentment by those who feel they are due more, as the OP, and those who feel they are charged with paying too much, likely as the OP's ex"

Here's the problem, in my situation: BD has no idea what the costs of raising a child are. Nor does he care. When we were married, we started off with a joint checking account. He didn't like that because he didn't want me spending HIS money (although it really is OUR money). So he decided to divide up the bills. He paid house, car and groceries. I paid all other bills including ALL expenses for our DS. If I ever ran short, I would just ask him to pay or buy whatever the difference was. He liked that better because he had control over his money. But what happened is that he got a very skewed version of what our household costs were. So now, he doesn't see the CS as support for his son. He sees the CS as the Ashley bill; much like the electric bill or the water bill. He flat told me this "You know, now that child support is raised I don't have to help you with sports costs anymore". I said "whatever". So he thinks that his $90 a year he paid in sports costs made up for his not paying the correct amount of support for 4 years.

I'm not hostile at all. And the "system" didn't cause my resentment. I was resentful before the "system" was ever involved. It has always been his view that I take care of all DS's expenses. The difference before was that he was paying for food, shelter and transportation.

Have you ever been so broke that you had to sit down with your bills and figure out which ones are urgent to pay and which ones can be put off until next month? I have. Well, BD does that with the Ashley bill. When he's broke or out of work (like right now) or moving or whataever, he decides that the Ashley bill can be put off until next month. Because he doesn't see it as supporting for his son.

So he missed his May payment. By that time, he had been out of work for 3 months. I was actually very impressed that May was the first payment he had fully missed. He had only paid partial in March. So, I called the AG and asked about the procedures when a person loses their job. Basically, they don't garnish unemployment until a payment is missed. Okay, that's cool. But they also don't charge interest until a full month's payment is missed. So, basically, if he makes his June payment on time, there are no penalties. That makes no sense. So it's as if he never missed May's payment at all. I'm not out for penalizing him, but where is the incentive to make the payment ontime? I bet he makes his credit card bills ontime.

BTW, gini, thank you for correcting my mistake on the calculations. I knew that was the right way to do it, but I was trying to get a quick number and figured it up that way.