Lafevem: You are SO right in what you said above. I, too, learned from a child psych. that when a parent talks badly about one parent, it does criticize half of that child. The child is an extension of the parent.

I think those w/ DHs who left for TOW have a difficult position. I'm sure I'd be just like you - cringing at the thought of TOW holding MY baby! I mean, that's just NOT fair in the whole scheme of things. And, how do you bite your tongue repeatedly? My friend is having a tough time, though she's way more soft spoken and reserved than I am. I'm more feisty (but still unassertive in many instances).

Anyway, as far as being totally honest to youngsters about their father's affair, well, she is following the Dr. who's supposed to be in the know. I guess we each want to be open and honest w/ our kids on everything, but, really, when you talk about sex to your kids do you really lay it all out there including all types of foreplay? Some things come on a need to know basis when it's time and age appropriate. JMHO. That being said, I remember being at the Hall of Presidents at Disney and my DNephews asking me why Bill Clinton was always in the news w/ that black haired girl. I finally said, "It's never OK to have a wife and a girlfriend and Pres. Clinton made a big mistake (or two) by doing just that!"

Southern: I have high hopes for your situation. It's not right and I'm w/ Sylvia, too! But, maybe, there will be some compromise, some enlightening for this bride to be along this journey. Maybe your DH can set things straight? However, I'm w/ you on the risk of being there and snubbed. Happened to me w/ SD's 8th grade graduation (early on in the marriage.) She asked me to take her shopping for a dress to wear and shoes. I jumped at the chance to bond and I thought we did. She debated between two dresses, decided on the one. We ate, talked, got shoes and accessories, etc. The next day I said to DH, "You know, she really loved this other dress, too. I'm going to run back up there and get it for her as a graduation gift from us." I did. After the ceremony, I went to talk to her and it's as if I was a stranger. I know it was because her mother was in the vicinity and I understood. Later, we pulled her aside to our car where I gave her the present and it's as if we had never connected. I cried on the way home - more for being foolish thinking we'd had a breakthrough than anything else. The only breakthrough was her learning how to manipulate me...as I said, it was a long time ago, but it stung, so I fully respect your desire to avoid what could sting far more than my little ordeal. Still, I will pray to St. Jude and everyone else for you tonight, that you receive the respect you deserve. I can't imagine your DH being comfortable w/o you there. And, if you don't want BM in your house again, stick to your guns. Do you have mutual friends w/ whom to occupy yourself should you be at any of these functions?

D

Hi, Vista

I know that feeling...the sting...so well.

I know that feeling of doing too much...getting your heart into it and going the extra mile, and then that zinger.
That harpoon through the heart. But so many times, I've done it again and again.

Right now, SD is being so nice to DH, and DH has forgotten all about her horrible behavior over the past several months, and so he bought her a brand new 2008 car--out of her trust fund, so it shouldn't concern me, but still.

Also SS is being so nice, and then DH said, by the
way, SS wants your tickets to the Titans - Colts game since we're going to be out of town. (I have had season tickets since before we married).

I felt so generous...then I thought, I'm doing it again!
I told DH that SS could make a small contribution to my kids college fund--really it wouldn't take much, maybe $25 just something to acknowledge the tickets. After all I could sell them on Ebay for $500, and DH just bought a new Accord for SS--paid cash from his trust fund-- and I'm saving and saving for my kids college. DH rolled his eyes, and said, well just sell them them. I think I will. There was a time when I would be so happy to give them to SS. There was the time when I gave him a set of hot pro football tickets and he gave them to someone else. Or the time when he just didn't even go.
Hey, my heart is in that gift, just like when you went shopping with SD and then bought 2 dresses. It was really special.

I have a friend who calls it "now, I've got you, you son of a b---h". He says it came from a book called "I'm OK, You're OK" from the '70s. That they think they have nailed you, and they hold the carrot up a little higher and a little higher each time, and never give you that approval.
You keep trying, like a rat hitting that lever in a Skinner Box, and just trying to keep from getting that shock.
And even if you open the door of the box, he doesn't leave.
He just keeps pushing the lever.

Well, I'm not going to push that lever any more. I'm not a doormat. I'm going to do my part. She's not going to have the satisfaction of saying that I am a cheapskate. But I dont' have to stay there and be stung. That hurts more than anything, and I'm just not going to participate.
Maybe I'll take my kids somewhere really special for the weekend, or meet my 3 girlfriends in New York for a shopping trip.

I don't understand why the father would be uncomfortable at the wedding just because his wife was not there. He's an adult. I have gone to several weddings recently where people were there without their spouses.

You are correct that if he is buying them something with their own money that doesn't affect you.

Of course I can't identify with this whole trust fund - season ticket - shopping in NYC lifestyle.

Vista and Southern
I very much empathasize with your feelings and will also pray to St. Jude for you both. I had thought everything was going well with myself and future skids until I recently was at an event where both myself and bio-mom was present. Don't get me wrong I'm sure it's hard for the kids also and they probably didn't know how else to act. But it still hurts alot. I went to say goodbye and was completely ignored by bio and children. She let me stand there talking to them and never said a word when they turned their heads like I wasn't even there. So Southern I'm with you the pain of going and the cold shoulder is so much more hurtful than not going. I feel bad but have told my fiance that I will no longer attend functions that ex will be at. I still act the same way but it made me realize that I shouldn't go all out anymore. We should all meet up that weekend when your SD is getting married and go somewhere fun, you definitely should go away somewhere with friends and do something fun to kep your mind off it.

Great advice, jupiterj. You aren't in Jupiter,FL are you?

Anyway, TOS, I would think southern's DH SHOULD be a little uncomfortable at events in which she chooses not to attend because of the treatment she will no doubt receive.

After all, Southern has selflessly continued to work, paying all bills and living expenses as DH is retired. You can't argue that she is indirectly supporting her SKids to a certain extent, or least has in the past. Then, you have the SKids, DH's biokids, who continually mistreat his WIFE. Sorry, but that is NOT OK.

You have the woman who has stood beside DH for YEARS sitting on the sidelines solely because of inappropriate behavior of his family. She has reached out repeatedly but had the door slammed in her face. She is expected to foot a major portion of this bill, but all parties know she is NOT welcomed to attend.

So, on a day where the DH should be the proudest, he will be walking one of the most important people in his life down the aisle, while the other most important lady is left out.

If my DNephews ever deliberately hurt my DH yet still expected him to work to support me, them and their major function, I'd be VERY uncomfortable attending knowing the most important man in my life is sitting by the wayside because he has been made to feel unwanted. It's not like southern has another obligation - needed to perform emergency surgery, a family reunion or some other conflict. She's free to go and should be there as the bride's father's wife who was never TOW, who never broke up his first marriage, who has only tried and tried to be accepted and go above and beyond the call of duty for many, many years. I would think that seeing one's father in a healthy, happy relationship would be reason enough to include the woman who has made his life fulfilled in on the big day.

Southern - if you want a weekend here, right by the beach, our guest room is OPEN!

D

What a hard situation!!

Southern, have you ever sat down with your stepchildren and sincerely asked them why they have such anomosity towards you? What could happen? Would it make the situation any worse?

Vista
No actually in New England area and either of you guys cawfe also would be welcome in our guest room anytime you need/want to get away for a couple days!

This makes me so sad. I have to agree that it's ridiculous for you not to be allowed at the wedding. You are a part of her life. And if your step daughter is old enough to be getting married that she's old enough to be a little more gracious about the situation, and to deal with it. And so goes with her mom.

The only way I could see where it might be understandable is (and 'm not saying this is the case) but if you were seeing the father before they were divorced and all the harsh feelings that you being their may evoke...But other than that you absolutely deserve to be there!

I don't see a problem with one spouse attending the wedding of a friend/or family member as a guest without the other if there is a scheudle conflict or such. This is a little different situation. If my DH is PAYING for the shindig, I think I should be invited.

Dana,

The most important lady at the wedding, is, as you said, the daughter. The second most important lady at this event is the mother-of-the-bride, followed closely by the mother-of-the-groom. Anyone else is secondary.

What is most important is what the bride and groom want.

I cant imagine my ever going to a wedding if the bride didnt want me to. Even when I was married, my X and I each had some friends of our own. No big deal. But I guess if I had kept him on a chain he wouldnt have met current GF.

Well, it's just sad that a woman who has been part of a family for this many years is made to feel unwanted. My goodness - she skipped the SS's graduation last month, too, to make everyone more comfortable. What's next - poisong grandkids against her, too? Not allowed at the baptism or to ever touch the baby should one come along? If the SD and BM have ill feelings this many years later, I think they are sad, pitiful women to not have moved on and be able to put this all aside at this stage. Heck, Southern seems here for the long haul. They seemed to have tried, but been unsuccessful in chasing our good Dr. away. I'm sure they're jealous of her status (I took neuroscience, friends, and it was hands down the most difficult class of my life! We lost a ton of students during it), her relationship w/ her husband, the fact she may be more beautiful, nice, well-liked than the both of them put together or whatever. It doesn't matter - it's just silly unless Southern is, under it all, Cinderella's evil SM!

I still feel correct in saying that this SD is creating way more hard feelings than necessary. For goodness sake, bury the hatchet and let all enjoy the beautiful celebration. There really isn't any need for all of this as someone wiser than me pointed out above. I'll bet these women have been to plenty of weddings where stepparents were included and most skids probably would have been hurt had the sp not wanted to attend. Is that the angle? To later tell the world, "My SM wouldn't even come to my wedding....poor me..."

I would like to think that regardless of why the marriage broke up, this SD would on some level appreciate the efforts of Southern. Southern's no dummy, no golddigger, nothing bad from what I can tell. She supports SD's father and makes him happy. Sheesh.

Sorry, SD needs to grow up!

For the record, I asked DH what he'd do if the reception I received at the 8th grade graduation had cont'd and one of his girls was being married. He said, "If they didn't welcome you, I'm afraid I'd be hurt and not want to attend." Now, DH and I have made up from the little drama these past few months so he may have clouded vision, lol, and I'm not sure he'd truly skip out on the whole deal. But I do think to expect Southern to foot part of the bill but make it clear she isn't wanted is the ultimate in poor taste.

Southern, I'm leaning towards giving her the trust fund now and let her throw herself her wedding. Heck, I never expected my parents to pay for our wedding. I was 33 and thanks to them, I was educated to one of the highest level. I think that old "bride's side" pays for the wedding was more appropriate for the years gone by when women married right out of high school. Now, given careers better than previous generations, I say let them foot their own bill! And, if the "Bride's Side" is hosting, this young lady (and I use the word loosely) has made it clear you are not part of 'her side.'

Sit her down, find out her beef, then suggest (if no resolution can come of it) she throw herself the biggest event of the year w/ her money! Then, fly down here and we'll hang out at the beach - I'll even give you a teeth whitening if you want it, lol! You can go back smiling w/ whiter teeth and a great tan...

Do you seriously know her issue w/ you and if not, would SS be an ally at this point or is he playing both sides of the fence?

Dana

I have been accused of making money an issue, but I think all of us do at times. If you use it as a power play, you will likely build up more resentment.

I doubt any SD is even thinking about SM at her own wedding -- as to she wouldnt come -- I doubt it.

And as to being allowed to hold grandchild -- that is clearly up to parents -- but forcing yourself into a wedding (and especially wedding party) isnt going to endear yourself to bride/mom.

I doubt after 10 years of being a supportive part of this family, there is anything southernsummer can do to endear herself to her husband's daughter. Or the BioMom.

I do think it is shameful the way this particular stepmom is being treated. kkny and TOS keep mentioning that there are plenty of spouses that don't attend weddings together. It usually isn't a big deal. In those cases, the couple is both invited, and one has another commitment. It is a big deal, I think, when one of those spouses happens to be the father of the bride. Like other posters here, I would totally be understanding and supportive of a bride not wanting to have a second wife who broke up her parents' marriage present at her wedding. But that simply is not the case here.

What I don't understand is why DH would put up with this clearly undeserved mistreatment of his wife. Is he that desparate to have a relationship with these mean children? I know they are his children, but they just don't seem like very nice people.

Dana said it best. SD (as well as SS) needs to grow up. I can't help but wonder if BioMom isn't somehow involved in the way the stepchildren have treated southernsummer, so perhaps she should grow up as well.

And to add insult to injury, to be expected to foot the bill for a wedding that you are not welcome to attend? Give me a break. This is really where DH should say to his DD, "I will be more than happy to participate in this wonderful day, and I will be thrilled to walk you down the aisle. But to expect my wife to pay for this when she is unwelcome is really quite unfair, don't you think?"

What is really sad is that southern cannot celebrate these wonderful family events and milestones with her husband.

Amen to that Tamar!

D

The trust fund money was spent on a car, not on this wedding.

The wedding is being paid out of southernsummer's pocket.

Southernsummer, what I wrote wasn't intended to be a 'fantasy'.

It's what I would do in the interest of self-respect, mental health, & rational behavior.

You say that you & hubs are "operating" off your income.

Unless he has transferred a whole bunch of assets into your name as your separate property, you're being used, & this wedding nonsense is more than disloyalty; it's exploitation.

I sometimes say "been there done, that paid, for everybody's dang tee shirt", but in some respects I've been lucky.

I've never been asked, let alone *expected* or *pressured* or had it *demanded*, to pay for any child's celebration & then hand the celebration to the birth parents & disappear into the woodwork like I had plague.

Even if the "child" needed whatever the money was going for, like groceries rather than a luxury wedding, I just would not do it on those terms.

You've heard
"Love me, love my dog"?

It applies the other way, too:
Love my money, love me.

I wish you the best.

Wow, again, I am accused of making it about money. I think Southerns financial arrangemnts -- first are her business, but second are more complicated. And I do think this is what drives a lot of tension. If SKids beleive that SM is going to end up with house (1/2 dads) and his finanical assets (large, per Southern), they may be resentful -- and feel SM should pay. Agree, not their business, but will be part of the equation. I think people are all over the board about what is equitable, but I think that moms will put their own children first and then come up with some justification (skids have other grandparents, trust fund, etc etc). And I think as a mom, my child will always come first. So at the end of the day, there is frustration.

I believe Tamar had a great response. If the SD refuses to allow SM to come, then BF should let daughter know that he will attend and walk her down the aisle and will give a nice gift, but that will be the extent of his financial contribution. That will show if daughter wants him there or his money.

I agree. BF needs to support southern and not allow his grown daughter to act like a brat. I know that it is her wedding, but what kind of person knowingly hurts another human being, especially one who has supported her. I think that even on our wedding day, we need to think about and love other people and I'm sure that BF wants his daughter to be a good person.

Hi, all

Thanks for your nice messages.

The cold shoulder--mmm---that hurts so much.

I remember attending the 25th birthday party of my SS along with DH and my 2 kids. I will say that my SS and his girlfriend were nice that night (it was last March), and we had a good time. We drove 4 hours to get there, and he had about 20 guests at a restaurant. I think that everyone paid their own way, but I really expected DH to pick up the tab. What he did was tell the waitress to bring him the check for SS, DH, my kids, and girlfriend. I told DH that girlfriend's brother was also, there, and we paid for him, too. That was really a turning point with SS--he really thanked me for that. Meant a lot to him.

SD, however, spoke to everyone at the party, but skipped over me and my kids. Ouchie. I thought I was invisible, until DH really insisted, and she acted like she hadn't seen me before. Yeah. It does hurt...a lot.

My dignitity is more important that attending the
wedding of someone who hates my guts. That's what this
really boils down to.

Also, SK have dropped questions about inheritance...my SD asked DH what happens to my engagement ring when I die. That's a good one. But realistically, if I weren't married to DH, he would be depleting their future inheritance via living expenses. As it stands now, income from his investments is being reinvested. The cost of our home (actually, it's a 30 acre farm) is really not the issue,
I think, anyway.

Yes, I have had a "sit down" with them, and what I have found is that the more I try to bring them closer, then more they pull back.

Regarding DH, his parents died when he was in his 30's,
and that's the primary reason for their financial
independance. But DH has a pathologic fear of losing his kids, since other than elderly aunts, they are his only family. He has a much older 1/2 brother and 1/2 sister
that have only recently started speaking to each other again since their father's death 20 years ago, because of ....step family issues! Crazy, isn't it?

My presence in the family was very healing to DH and his 1/2 siblings, but very devisive to SK.

When we married, SD said that BM told her that she always expected to reconcile with DH, had we not married.
I really think these are loyalty issues.

Regarding the shopping trip to NY, it's just a way to do
something to distract myself from moping all weekend.
If I can spend thousands on SD, I can spend something on myself, too.

"DH has a pathologic fear of losing his kids" -- I am not certain what you mean by pathologic. It seems to me there is a very real risk of losing contact with his kids, at least the SD and if "the more I try to bring them closer, then more they pull back" -- maybe it is time for you to pull back.

As to money -- if I ever remarried, I would keep seperate funds -- your and his choice obviously, but even with your paying current "operating expenses" the questions as to his investments, etc. are bound to create questions.

KK,

what I mean is that DH is largely afraid to correct them or tell them "no" about anything, because he is afraid
that they won't come back to see him. If they misbehave,
he will buy them something really big so they will love him again. I think that's pathological.

Now, he is better than he used to be, but it's still bad. For example, About a month ago, SD phoned to tell him that she and her boyfriend were coming over to visit in 15 minutes, but they never showed up and never called to say they weren't coming. DH phoned her to complain and she hung up on him.

So he drove to see her the next week, and bought her a new car. Not a 2007--she's getting a 2008. He hasn't told me yet, but I found out. Her car is only 2 years old. Now I know that you're thinking that it's from her trust fund, and it's her money....yes, that's true. But it's still rewarding bad behavior.

That's what I mean. Also, I think that's part of
her problem with me...I don't dance the way DH does.

It could just have easily been a trip somewhere.
Now tell me that's not pathological.

I wouldnt go nuts over a phone call. I think you should let him deal with his kids.

Southern,

I would go a little nuts over the phone call when you're expecting someone, unless it was, "Maybe we'll swing by, Dad." I go crazy worrying about accidents, etc.

Southern, I see higher degrees aren't our only things in common, sadly. As I've eluded to, DH and I are some serious debt at the moment. If we get compensated most of what we've filed suit for in our fire incident, we'll be back on the road to recovery. Our home, however, is to die for. It's striking and huge. It is my dream house and I've paid dearly for it in every sense of the word. But, I rationalize that I'd better love it as it looks like my Bahamas trip was it for vacations for awhile...

DH has poor credit - recovering, but poor, so all assets are in my name 100%. He works 4.5 days/week, I'm in there 3. Practice is in my name. Our cars are in my name as he couldn't get the financing, etc.

One summer between Fr. and So. yr of college, SS lived w/ us as he had before college and on all breaks. Our office wasn't on computers and SS's sole job was to get our patient charts on the computers. The agreement was for him to work 4-5 days/week and we'd help him get a car (basically buy him a car) at the end of the summer as the one he was driving was, like your SD's, TWO years OLD - yuk, imagine having to drive a car that's TWO years OLD! LOL.

SS showed up exactly two times the ENTIRE summer. He was up all night on the house computer (viewing inappropriate stuff and leaving it on there for me - got to give him credit, though, they were nice looking guys, lol), slept daily til around 3:00pm and just couldn't make it in. The two days he showed it was well after lunch when he did...

The kicker? DH and SS go out one afternoon shortly before classes resumed for SS - I was home w/our oldest, an infant. DH said, "We're going to Walgreen's." Walgreens is w/in walking distance from our house, but we often go to a different one, so when time passed, I didn't get too concerned until HOURS passed. I called DH on the cell. "Where the heck are you?" He said, "We're picking out cars - I'll see you soon." and basically hung up.

Yes, I thought he said "CARDS" but I guess it was "CARS." Now, I know what I heard and even SS said, "Dad, why are you lying to her?" per DH after the blow-up that followed...I mean, he can't get credit for OUR cars but suddenly can for this kid's? And, wasn't the deal to WORK all summer then get the car? I honestly nearly left. The lies, the deceipt, the parenting that is just plain out wrong.

That was only ONE car of at least three I can think of that DH bought SS behind my back. We now pay someone $150/hr, though she gave us a prof. discount to $100 this week, to tell him that 1) you don't operate and make MAJOR purchases or decisions w/o your wife's consent or at least KNOWLEDGE! and 2) you don't reward poor behavior. Go figure. Like I need a psychologist to tell me that. GRRRR!

So, I feel for you and if you decide to head south instead of north, the guest room is free here and it is steps to the ocean.

BTW, don't worry about explaining yourself about a shopping spree - you certainly deserve it. You've paid your dues - in school to be able to earn a nice splurge every so often, and definitely in this relationship. Once, early in our marriage, I went shopping w/ the SD who just moved out of here. She was a teenager. She later told her dad that she needed a credit card so she could just buy whatever she wanted like I did that day! It was probably her graduation dress and accessories that I was buying, but imagine a young teen feeling as though she had the right to make impulse purchases like a practicing dentist! I wasn't sure how people got this way.

Today, DH went out w/ our oldest and middle. Back he came w/ a huge remote control train set for the oldest and a race car track and cars for the middle one. The boys all just had b-days and w/ our debt, their poor behavior today, etc, it just wasn't the thing to do. So, I guess when the going gets tough, he only knows how to calm things w/ his kids (of all ages, apparently) w/ gifts. I wasn't happy as I said, "We agreed there's a freeze on buying - we don't have the room for any more big things, the boys are so cranky and overtired, this is ridiculous!" He said, "Well, he (pointing to eldest) bought this w/ his allowance and tooth fairy money..." Of course he didn't, though he offered his money as he always does, lol, not that it would cover his purchases. I'm just annoyed that his only way to bond w/ his kids is by gifts! Today, a train set, tomorrow a Lexus?

D

Hi, Dana

So true. I can really relate.

KK, I didn't care about the phone call. I wasn't even
at home. It wasn't casual. DH was upset about it.
She was in town (college is 4 hours away), and she always
stays at her mother's house. She called and said that she was going to come over to see him and bringing BF. She would be there in 15 minutes. Never showed. She didn't care. Something better came up, and she didn't want to have to explain it. He wasn't worried. It's only 4 miles away, and she cancels with him on a regular basis--just usually calls. I could care less. Part of the reason she calls is to make sure that I'm not there. PLEASE...don't think that I was upset about the call. My point is that
her response to being confronted about it is to hang up on him. His response to the hang up is to drive 4 hours and buy her a car.

Now, the kicker....at the rate they are going, these trust funds are not going to last forever. Do you really think
that this is going to end when they run out of money?
Hmmmmm.

DH does have good credit. I can't complain about that.
It's just rewarding bad behavior that bothers me.
Also, I have to really wrestle to get things set up for my kids. I did finally get a college fund set up this year.
That was a major accomplishment. Just wait until I start talking about trips abroad like step-kids. That's going to cause a major meltdown.

Southern - you are right in being concerned. It WON'T end when the trust funds are exhausted. Sadly, the skids have learned at an early age how to manipulate their father. I'm afraid you will be sitting in front of a therapist one day w/ DH, paying to have someone tell him, "Don't make major purchases w/o discussing them w/ your wife...don't continue to bail out your kids because they choose to live beyond their means...don't allow to ever disrespect your wife...you are undermining their ability to cope w/ adversity by jumping in to take care of things...DO NOT REWARD BAD BEHAVIOR!"

I'm committed to establishing prepaid college funds for our boys if and when we get the ins. settlement. If it looks like we're settling later than sooner, I'll do the installments for it to lock in today's tuition schedule. I was a little annoyed that I had to put my skids through college not only because they were never very nice to me then, but more because their parents chose to live large and set NOTHING aside for college. Their old house was enormous. She stayed at home (and slept w/ the tennis coach - bad, Dana, bad...) and shopped til she dropped. The kids attended a prep school that was way more costly than my dental school.

My DH is also 'afraid' of his adult kids - afraid to be shut out, etc. His parents are long ago deceased and his sister lives rather far away and is much older. So, he pacifies them for a moment w/ a big gift for all the wrong reasons.

I'm guessing your DH doesn't want to discuss the future post-trust fund w/ you? Maybe we need to lighten up on our DHs - sounds like we married the same man so he's really juggling a lot. Flying back and forth between our homes, buying cars, etc, etc. At least he didn't ruin his credit in your neck of the woods! LOL.

Dana

The other day I was listening to the radio in the car, and John Tesch (spelling?) was giving advice on whether to get married. One criteria on his list was dont get married if you have to chance something about your fiance. I would add to the list dont get married hoping to change your fiance's children. If they are going to bother you, and it is going to get you, take a pass.

Hi, there

Dana, I think we are married to the same man.

KK, I agree...you cannot change someone after you marry them. You are also right that before marriage, I didn't represent a threat to them, and we were not working out of the same checking account. So, who knew?

I can't believe adult children are acting this way? As children ourselves and adults I wouldn't act like this. If my parents had split and both remarried I would want them at the wedding with both partners because I love them both. As it happens we got married and only invited friends. It was a small do of about 15 people. Perfect. No family politics! My mum was ok with it afterall, I am an adult and allowed to make my own choices.

Mum23 -- I let my DD make her own choices. I never told her that her dad had an affair. She figured that out on her own, and could see he moved out. I dont think her feelings are unusual.

Southern -- thanks for sharing.

Mum23 -- I let my DD make her own choices. I never told her that her dad had an affair. She figured that out on her own, and could see he moved out. I dont think her feelings are unusual.

Southern -- thanks for sharing. I think this board should be required reading for any future SMs

KK,

True, and when single women ask for advice, I
tell them to never marry a man who has children.
Harsh, but true.

Years ago I saw a book about dating advice for men, and it said, never date a woman with children -- the children will always come first. I was younger and didnt understand it. I do now.

This may be a stuipid question, but I'm going to ask anyway!! Do children always come first in intact families? (I don't originate from an intact family so I have no reference point.)

Among the four of us (DH plus my 2 kids),
our marriage comes first.

Among the six of us (DH, his kids, my kids),
his kids come first.

Among my birth family, my parents' marriage came first.

I am from a very intact family and I definitely DID NOT come first. My parents are Christians and our belief system teaches that the marriage is the most important union in the home, and to have secure children, they must see a happy couple. My parents always took 2 vacations a year, one with all of us, and one just them. They had their own friends, did date nights, etc. I was VERY IMPORTANT to them, don't get me wrong. They were very involved in my school, church, social life, but they did not bend over backwards to accomodate me. They are still my best friends (after DH of course). I live 2 miles from them and they are VERY involved with their grandkids. But, they still have their own life and have been happily married over 40 years and I wouldn't change a thing.

Well my marraige didnt come first or my husband wouldnt have cheated.

My parents never took vacations without us.

KKNY, your ex-husband is a jerk.

Lafevem, I agree about the Christian values. I always thought that the marital union was the foundation for the family, at least that sounds right, regardless of intact or stepfamily scenario.

KK, would you ever consider re-marrying?
You really deserve a good marriage, and
your ex-husband is not representative of
what you could have and what you deserve.

1. I have not been divorced that long --

2. Would rather wait till dd in college before I have any serious relationship.

but thanks

My parents were married for 25 yrs when they divorced. Their marriage didn't come first at all. I don't know that even us kids came first...LOL.
My mother has not re-married, but my father has. I have been on both sides of the fence with step-families. I was an adult when my father remarried. I have taken my approach with my SS's from what I have learned as a child of divorce, and from the mistakes his wife has made.

1. The marriage to my DH is of equal importance as his children.
2. The children need one on one time with their father regardless of how good our relationship is as a family. Whether intact or not, children need one on one time with each parent.
3. If anything were to happen to my DH, the chilren will recieve all monies from his life insurance policy, any items of his that they want, etc.

It has been made clear to me and my siblings that we are not welcome to a personal relationship with our father. We are allowed to have one with him AND his wife (which is fine, but sometimes you need one on one with your parents)
When I got married the first time, my father was dating his now wife. He brought her to my wedding. That was the first time I met her. They had come from out of state (about 1,000 miles) to our wedding. I welcomed her openly. She was awful. Very rude to my brothers, my mother, and disrespectful to my grandparents. She made it clear that she didn't feel that I was old enough to get married, and that she would never allow her daughter (same age as me) to get married. (I was young...21) Six months later, her daughter married a meth addict. Nice....
Anyway, over the years she's pulled some pretty crazy stuff. Alienating one of my brothers totally, and pi$$ing of the rest of us.
Here's the thing. I still invite her to all family functions becuase she's my fathers wife. I remarried a while back, and she was invited to the wedding, and she sat with my in-laws, etc. I would never dream of treating her with any disrespect. I don't have to like what she does, but she is my father's wife, and that is the choice he made. My relationship with my father isn't what it use to be, and that's pretty sad, but that is his choice. I love him regardless.
So, understanding both side of things, my goal is to foster a positive, fulfulling relationship between my DH and SS's. They all deserve it. What's funny, is that my DH would never allow me (or anyone else for that matter) to come between him and his kids. Nor would he allow my SS's to be disrespectful to me. I've been lucky, my SS's are very good to me. I don't know what I'd do if they weren't. I know I'd be crushed.
I just don't think it's ever OK to exclude a bio OR step parent. When my SS had his 12th b-day party, he was mad at his mother still (he had moved in with us a yr before)and I told him "you invite your Mom, or no party...period". He got the message. We're teaching him tolerance. It can go a long way, just like manners.

Wow, I wouldnt wish marriage to a meth head to anyone's daughter, no matter what. What irks me is the holier than thou attitude of some parents (oh my kids would never do that). Teenagers and young adults can be tough.

Best of luck.

Very nice mentality you have, jessegirl. You are doing the right thing for your SS and your father. I hope he opens his eyes sooner rather than later and reestablishes a good relationship w/ all of his kids.

To answer the 'who comes first' question: My parents have been married for 51 yrs. I think they largely sacrificed for my brother and I. I appreciate it and take care of them now. He is not a bad person but is selfish and does not seem grateful. It's tough.

My parents were always a safe haven for the neighborhood kids who had been the products of divorce. I remember my parents always including some combination of children from other families when we went on family vacations. They never had money, but were always a voice for the voiceless and had a magical way to include the world and make a great time of it. Some of those kids today would never let my mom's b-day pass w/o at least a phone call. Many cite her as the reason they are successful today. Others chose to forget my parent's kindness and forget their pasts. Regardless, in a world w/ so few role models, my parents are two to be admired. When I was a jr. in H.S. they took in my cousin and raised him. So, almost 'free' lol, they didn't think twice about removing him from my mom's sister.

I've taken a page out of their book in that I sacrifice for my kids and any other kids in need. Not ready for a girl's weekend away like so many moms at my school. I've yet to spend a night w/o the kids unless I was in the hospital having them! I'm working on that, more for DH's benefit. He has been better at putting our needs and priorties first these days, but this is the first time I've felt anywhere near his kids in rank since we married (it wasn't like that before we wed at all.) The marriage counselor has helped.

We are very active Catholics and do know that the union of man and wife should be first. It's tough. I'm not one who'd save my DH over my kid if the ship was sinking, you know? I've heard that's wrong, but I could never do that...luckily, I don't think he'd mind...
D

Hi, Dana

I think it's normal to save your kids first.

I'm talking about making your marriage a priority
rather than killing yourself to run circles around
high maintenance children. Everyone has seen that,
and it's not good for kids or for parents.

I think that when our DH's buy our stepkids cars or other expensive gifts behind our backs, that is a good example of putting kids ahead of your marriage. It undermines us, and it sends a bad message to our step-children...just like your step-son said, "why are you lying to her". I'm not sure if my step-kids know that my husband doesn't involve me in these decisions, and right now, it's not totally my business, BUT the issue as I see it is rewarding bad behavior. When my step-kids see my husband hiding things from me, or playing both sides against the middle, it tell them that it's okay to treat me with disrespect. It tells them that our marriage is not important to him.

KKNY-It was awful for her. She also slipped into it too, and had 2 children. They are divorced now, and he is nowhere to be found. Very sad.

Dana-Yes, I hope that he turns it around, but at 73, that's going to be hard. He has to live with her, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease. We still see him, just not often, and almost never without his wife there. It could be worse though!

Southern-
I can't even imagine your frustration. It's such a hard spot to be in. I can really empathize with you. I don't think that I would actually pay for the wedding. Just based on your relationship with his kids, and how he's handled things with you and decisions, I'd let him or her Mom figure out how to pay for it I think. On him buying them stuff, that's hard because he's already trained them on how it works with him, and only he can change it. Sounds like DH does this with all the kids?

DH does this with his kids.

With my kids, he does not.

It's not that I want him to lavish my kids with expensive things, it's that his kids know that he will reward bad behavior. Also, they are NEVER satisfied, because there is always something bigger and better that they don't have or haven't experienced yet.

Our kids needs came first. They come before mine as well. That doesn't mean what they want in the short term comes first in every instance. My little one wants another dog, but I can't afford another one right now, and at the moment our family's finances are more important in the long term.

Southern-Yikes! I also suppose that since you have say in the "our kids" that is also why he isn't rewarding bad behavior. It sounds like he has guilty feelings (even though he may not have caused the breakup) with his own kids, and that's why he's throwing money at the problem. Lots of dads have those feelings. Even if they aren't logical. They have an underlying feeling of guilt for the breakup of their marriage, and "ruining" of their children's "perfect family" picture.
My DH had those feelings. He told me that he felt for a long time that the divorce created a feeling that he ruined his childrens lives. Even though he didn't cause the break up....

Jesse,

I think you are absolutely right.

SS

Southern -
Is there a way in which you can sit down with your SD and let her know that you would enjoy coming to her wedding and ask her why she is excluding you?

If she refused to answer the question or was rude, I would tell her that I am very sorry but I find the need to withdraw my financial participation which would have funded her wedding. And I would not feel guilty about it. I would not work to benefit an ungrateful SD - especially when DH is not doing and buying for your BKs. Fair is fair and if all parties are not playing on a level ground, maybe the rules need to be changed - beginning today. I mean no disrespect, but what's the difference between DH rewarding bad behavior in SD and you doing the same by funding her wedding when you're not invited?