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Problems with Ultrex Wood outswing French doors

12 years ago

We installed Marvin Integrity Ultrex Wood doors and windows in new construction. Really like the windows and wood choose them again. We are having an issue with the outswing double panel french door units. They don't latch unless you slam them. Once latched, they operate as they should. Had the Tech out from our Marvin dealer, said they were not properly installed. After personally making several measurements, I confirmed they are installed level and square (from every conceivable perspective). The Marvin Rep is coming today. Just curious if anyone else has seen this problem. I've read multiple posts on this and other sites that indicate Marvin is rather quick to blame installation.

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Comments (7)

PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
12 years ago
Nothing specific about Marvin in that case.

Most manufacturers will, by default, point the finger at the installation.

If it is level, square, and plumb, Marvin does not have a leg to stand on.
danvirsse
12 years ago
sorry to hear your door is not up to par. When the Marvin Rep is there, ask him to explain what part of the installation is incorrect. We installed an inswing type last summer, and found that their installation instructions are VERY different from most other companies. Fortunately, we followed their's to a tee and the door work great, though it took alot of fine tuning. My best guess in the installer just needs to do a little tweeking to get it really right. The Marvin rep should be able to steer you/or the installer in the right direction.
Let us know how this works out
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Indeed straps are necessary as you mention. Delivery folks can have tools to deal with them. We would need tools to move them around from where they were delivered. So, I thought it would have been ideal if the straps were attached to the wood like I have had on sliding patio doors I bought from Lowes few years ago. Couple of more observations: Flanges (nailing fins) are the length of wood on horizontal and vertical sides - when opened and nailed they leave four square holes in all four corners. Marvin provides a patch for that by including foam gaskets with the windows. Another interesting thing I realized - and this may apply to many different windows - Nailing fins are made of plastic and they slide into a groove on the window frame. After they are nailed, how much holding power does this mechanism have. There will be additional support from trim inside. Some support when siding is installed. It seems to me that this is an easy way into the house - almost easier than breaking the glass. I have tried neither method, so I am just speculating. Marvin does provide metal straps for windows with mullioned transoms. Comments?
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lkbum_gw
Original Author
12 years ago
What a pleasant surprise. The Marvin Rep brought a laser level and tripod and very clearly showed me what the problem was. The laser projected exact level lines on the door and frame so you could see without a doubt how the doors lined up. These are French Outswing doors with fixed panels mulled on both sides. Turns out, Outswing doors are more sensitive to installation imperfections and the mulled panels prevent using screws in the jambs to help align the doors. The Marvin rep said the installation was not perfect, but most are not. He said it was more than adequate and focused more on the door itself and fixes than the installation. It also appeared that the door strikes may be off. Marvin recently changed these on this line of door (about 9 months ago according to the rep). One of the strikes had clearly been modified (made a little bigger), probably at the factory. The rep is contacting the Marvin factory for guidance, ordering new strikes and assured me that the problem would be corrected. His knowledge and the time he spent explaining things was outstanding. The laser level was an excellent way to evaluate the doors. Based on what I saw, new strikes will solve the problem. Here's a pic. 8' tall, 5'w french with mulled panels, flanked by fixed panels. The top windows are Marvin Ultimate
danvirsse
12 years ago
Beautiful doors. I'm glad you had a good experience with the Marvin rep. We've always been very pleased with Marvin over the years, but you never know what shortcuts a company may begin utilizing. Thanks for sharing your experience.
millworkman
12 years ago
That type of service is what separates the quality companies from the mediocre companies we speak of here. Of course in addition to the quality of the product, but the two together go hand in hand.
WindowDog
12 years ago
I can imagine that an 8ft tall outswing French door would take some very skilled talent to install.

You have three/four planes of dimension that must be perfect. 1 is level. 2 is plumb. 3 is that both jambs must be perfectly perpendicular to each other. The 4th is that the jambs must not be bowed in or out, or tweaked/twisted. Add to all that an oddity with the latch or keeper (lock), or adjustable hinges, and you can see that skill is required to first understand and then execute an installation. It's not uncommon for there to be an installation problem with a double hinged French door.

Very glad to hear the Marvin service tech was professional and is taking care of you.
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
12 years ago
Beautiful room and window and door package.

Good to hear Marvin is on the ball and taking care of it.

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