Wow, I had a flash in my mind from that movie "the good son" as i was reading this.

Yes, he needs counseling or professional intervention. I would be terrified of being around him, but then that gives him all the power now, doesn't it? He has figured out how to control everyone.. make everyone fear him. His words are so powerful, the adults fear him. SCARY!

The only thing I can say is don't react to his 'threat'. I would give him no response.. maybe acknowledge with a casual 'really?' and change the subject. He gets a reaction from telling his mom stuff.

Part of me wants to say, tell him he won't be allowed to spend any time alone with anyone because he says these things and nobody can be alone so they can't hurt him or be accused of hurting him. but I don't know if that is the right thing to say... it's true, but not sure if you tell a 6-7 year old that.

love ... he was not the center of attention ... negative attention is better than sitting by watching someone else get something and you get nothing.

she got gum he didn't
she had a game he didn't

he is just being selfish ... and he knows how to push dad's and your buttons to get the attention he wants.

Give him the number to call CPS and the police Dept if he thinks he is being treated that unfairly.

We have a list hanging in the kitchen ...

SD10's numbers
mom
cps caseworker
police
counselor

our cable got shut off ... no money for 12 weeks ... SD10 called CPS because she couldn't watch disney channel at our house.

Don't let him know CPS and the police scare the crap out of you ....

blow it off act like no big deal it will die out ... our CPS worker called SD's mom and told her to put SD back in counseling and to discuss with her what real abuse is.

"I mean---is this child mentally ill?"

Based on everything you have posted here and on other posts, I'd say yes. The depth of it, I have no idea. But this sounds like more than jealousy, trouble processing emotions, etc. He sounds highly manipulative. Maybe it's caused by his mother's "parenting", I don't know. But I think this kid has problems that can't be addressed by you and your DH alone.

You don't want to over-empower SS by showing that his words get to you -- but you don't want to ignore him or avoid him either. It's just so hard to parent 'normally' when the other household won't cooperate!

I know that now I'm the one sounding repetitive, but read that book! (Divorce Poison)

SS needs to acknowledge that his BM is behaving badly -- acknowledge it to himself and to you. He probably sees it at some level and knows what she's doing is wrong. That what he's doing is wrong. But until you all have the words to explain it and talk about it, the whole thing remains trapped in a frustrating, wordless mess. And as someone who once lived in a place where I couldn't speak the language -- If you don't have the words for a thought, it's really hard to hang onto that thought long enough to process it. SS needs to have the words for what BM is doing and why she is acting the way she is. And he needs to have the words available to understand why he wants to please her and that he doesn't want to hurt you either -- and that those two things can't both be true at the same time.

This is what Divorce Poison is so good at -- At helping you help SS without going to the point where you're bad-mouthing BioMom.

I think there are a few things going on here. You have BM and her alcohol problems, plus I think you also have a bit of jealousy too. Some of the envy is probably normal sibling stuff, but then there's the part that came out about him being ugly... and him getting angry over the "I love you" from his sister. She is fortunate enough to have an intact family and he doesn't. He probably wonders why she gets a mom and dad and not have to be schlepped back and forth like him. Just a thought and I know you can't change his situation.

You are not annoying us at all lovehadley....dont worry.
I think your ss is going through alot of emotional termoil and the effects of an alcohol mom are starting to surface. The fact that he focused on something so simple, he didn't get chewing gum is the neglect he truly feels from mom. That she uses him as a pawn against you guys. That she is sooooo focused on money and court issues that she is not 'living' her life with her son when the time comes with him. Its sad.
you need to get him another councilor for kids who have parents who are alcohols and maybe another one for step issues....but i am betting its mostly due to alcoholism.
Kids will always deny things even when caught red handed...thats normal.
Its normal to be jealous as well....sibling rivalry is normal. Many above have posted this asw ell... And i agree with Sweeby. His vocabulary and understanding of the whole situation is limited and he needs to understand and put words to his situation.
He needs a councilor. A different one and soon. And he needs to understand he can't jerk people around with police issues either. Maybe his mother truly beleives him and then he recants the story...its an attention thing. But by bring him to a psychologist will also show on record that he needs a higher step now. And the police and cps will see the kids has issues.. just as his mom does. Its sad. I'm sorry loveh that you have to go through this....
Make sure your daughter feels acknowledged for saying she loved her brother adn that he didn't mean the things he was saying....

"... SD10 called CPS because she couldn't watch disney channel at our house."

"Well, dad, you spank me a thousand times a day, and I will tell my mom that and she'll be angry."

Oh my god! I can not even imagine the girls acting the way some of the skids on this board act! The girls get spanked. Straight up I will say it....THEY GET A BUTT WHOOPIN whenever they are disrespectful to adults or they do something they know they shouldn't have. If they ever pulled stunt like Psuedo's SD did I think J might kill them.

I'm sorry but I think there is something to be said for kids who get spanked. I know alot of folks say it's permanently damaging and NAH NAH NAH. Whatever. These kids are ALREADY spoiled and disgusting. A spanking couldn't do anything but help....lol. I don't buy mental illness in kids this young. I think 7 out of 10 of these kids are just freakin rotten and think they are grown @$$ adults by age 8.

Sorry about the rant and I know I'll have at least 8 people give me the statistics on the life damaging affects of physical punishment. Might as well save your breath. Spanking is part of our culture and religion here.

"Spare the rod, spoil the child"

LOL, Doodle. That was priceless.
(and I pretty much agree)

I think you should definitely find a new counselor if the current one is not working out.
He does sound like he has some real issues. The false allegations are a scary thing, but it sounds like you are doing right by documenting everything. Keep on doing that. this is also where a good counselor would be a help too as far as being able to back up the false allegations.
We had to deal with this when my ss was in grade school. He made false allegations to the school, who called CPS. It is nerve wracking. My ss was/is highly manipulative, deceptive, and loved to triangulate adults. By the time I ended up pregnant with our now 6 year old dd, we had full blown PTSD from dealing with him. We sent him back to his mom, out of fear for the baby and my son. It was just too much. He needed a group home, but we could not afford one at that time. Insurance wouldn't cover it.
Hang in there, I know how tough it can be, and just document document document. I know it saved our butts.

You said he was very angry in an exploding manner and then switched to a cold calculating voice?? Doesn't "remember" and denies saying it???

First thing that popped in my head? - reminds me of an old movie I saw a long time ago - Sybil. Maybe not multiple personality disorder but perhaps some sort of a dissociative disorder. What kind of a counselor does he see?

Gerina, it is not intact family.

DD is lovehadley's daughter, she is not her DH's daughter. I mean he is her stepfather (although he is more of a father to her), I mean technically he is not her dad. So SS is no different than DD in this situation. In fact SS is better off here. He has both mom and dad, but DD's biodad is not in the picture. I am not trying to minimize DH's role as DD's father, just trying to clarify that this could not be a reason for jealousy.

What you might be missing, while DD is not her DH's bio daughter, her DD lives with LH and her DH as if they are an intact family. Yes, her DD's bio father is out of the picture so her DD is not subjected to going back and forth between two homes like SS is. LH & her DH provide a stable home for her DD and it is more like an intact family.

SS on the other hand, is going between two very different homes. Yes, he has both bio parents in his life but he goes from dad's (stable loving home) to mom's (unstable alcoholic with relationship problems and a new baby) and there are probably jealousy issues for SS in BOTH homes. He sees LH's DD living a quiet, carefree childhood in a loving home while he has to go to his mom's every other week and deal with mom getting drunk (or not knowing when mom is gonna get drunk again), mom punching people when she's drunk, mom fighting with her husband, having a new baby around is hard on most kids as well... so there's a lot going on in SS's life and he probably doesn't feel like he fits in anywhere and to boot, his mom is probably trying to coach him into wanting to live with her because they are now in a custody battle.

I don't see how you can say SS is better off here, unless you are saying that it's more important for a kid to have both bio parents, even if one is an unstable nut, in the picture than a stable life with one bio parent out of the picture.

Yeah, I have to agree that, especially from SS's point of view, DD does have an intact family. In the 5+ years DH and I have been together, SS has not once asked "where or who is DD's dad?" It's like he doesn't even consider that she does have one.

I think SS feels very different from other kids he knows who don't go back/forth between homes. DH is actually looking into some sort of group counseling for SS where he could meet with other kids in similar situations.

"In fact SS is better off here. He has both mom and dad, but DD's biodad is not in the picture"

I totally disagree. Yes, the fact that DD's bio-dad is not in the picture will bring its own set of issues for DD down the road, it is not an issue now. She calls my DH dad. At this point in time, SHE feels she has a mom and a dad, and really, for all intents and purposes, she does.

Not saying that she won't feel some hurt/abandonment/sadness/anger as she gets older and wonder why BD was not around. I think she will but it is my hope that by raising her well, and giving her love and stability, she will continue to be confident and happy, and will be able to face those issues productively. Maybe she will even have a relationship with BD in the future.

But for now, she lives in one house, with one mom, one "dad," etc. SS is getting ready to start his third school in three years. :( DD is getting ready to start her third year at the SAME school. And not to toot my own horn too much, but I like to think I do a pretty good job of raising her to feel confident, with good morals, and that I exemplify good behavior standards for her. SS certainly doesn't get that from his BM, instead he lives in a chaotic, and "sick" environment with her. It's really sad because we have two kids, the same age, but due to circumstances out of DH's control, SS is having a very different childhood than DD.

I think children can get jealous when they see a bioparent spending more time with other kids. That is just one reason why a parent should try to see that his/her children get to see the other parent.

kkny -- children do get jealous. But it is not just on the custodial parent to make sure that the children see the other parent. The noncustodial parent needs to make sure they spend as much time as possible with the child, stay involved in the child's life, and most importantly, when the child visits, make sure they spend plenty of 1-on-1 time with the child. I know some people disagree and think that the visiting child should just blend into the existing family routine, but if the parent does not ensure alone time necessary to build a strong bond and sense of security in the child, that jealousy will almost always be there and create larger problems. Its dfficult.

"But it is not just on the custodial parent to make sure that the children see the other parent. The noncustodial parent needs to make sure they spend as much time as possible with the child, stay involved in the child's life, and most importantly, when the child visits, make sure they spend plenty of 1-on-1 time with the child. I know some people disagree and think that the visiting child should just blend into the existing family routine, but if the parent does not ensure alone time necessary to build a strong bond and sense of security in the child, that jealousy will almost always be there and create larger problems. Its dfficult"

I agree, but this is not what's going on here. DH IS a custodial parent, as is BM. They have ALWAYS had 50-50 custody. DH spends lots and lots of time with his son. Bedtime routine is always HIS time. He reads him stories, lies in bed with him, etc. He doesn't do that w/my DD--it is special time for him and his son.

He plays sports w/him in the backyard, sometimes takes him to car-related stuff with him, and just is generally a very involved dad.

They get alone time often because I almost always have things to do w/DD. For example, DD has swim practice every AM, and while I take her to that, this summer DH has taken to taking SS to the bakery once a week for donuts. Last weekend, DD went to a bday party, and DH took SS to get frozen custard. This is NOT abnormal for us at all. We obviously spend MORE TIME as a family, as a whole, but DH certainly spends adequate time alone with his son.

I'm not saying that there isn't jealousy going on on SS's part, but sometimes that is just unavoidable. IMO, it is NOT caused by anythng DH is or isn't doing.

"Yeah, I have to agree that, especially from SS's point of view, DD does have an intact family. In the 5+ years DH and I have been together, SS has not once asked "where or who is DD's dad?" It's like he doesn't even consider that she does have one. "

I wonder if that might be something you could discuss with SS -- That really, your DD isn't as lucky as he thinks, because her BioDad isn't around at all... That might awaken a spark of compassion in him. Of course, with his present emotional state, I'd expect him to throw that in your DD's face pretty quickly.

Yeah, sweeby, for that reason I would never want to point out to SS that DD's dad is not around. The chances of him causing her hurt over that fact are far too great.

I am not saying DD does not have a nice family or doesn't have a father figure, of course she does. If people want to look into something in my post what is not there, i cannot help it.

But neither SS nor DD have intact family here. It is neither good nor bad but that's what it is. SS's parents are divorced and he goes between two houses. DD's father is not in a picture and she lives in one house.

It is hard to determine what is intact and what is better, it is what it is, but if i ask DD would she rather go between two houses and two families (the way she did her whole life since she was 4-and yes it was stressful at times) or would she rather live with me 100% and her father was nonexistant, I think she'd rather go between two houses.

Now my post was not about love's DD who is lucky to have a great family. My point is that it is ridicilous of SS to be jealous that DD has one home while he has two. Some kids are jelous and envious of everything. i bet you there are kids who are jealous that someone has two houses. i don't think such jealousy should be cultivated. I think SS needs to be taught that he is lucky to have what he has and not compare himself to others.

"Some kids are jelous and envious of everything. i bet you there are kids who are jealous that someone has two houses. i don't think such jealousy should be cultivated. I think SS needs to be taught that he is lucky to have what he has and not compare himself to others"

I agree with this, FD.

I think my DD has plenty of opportunities to be jealous of SS, at least from a child's perspective. He gets two Christmases, two birthdays, etc. He comes back from BM's almost everytime with a new Webkin or LPS or something.

At our home, we buy toys for special occasions or VERY RARELY just because---if either of the kids has money saved up, they are allowed to buy something with their own money. I was pretty annoyed two weeks ago because DD got a SUPER DUPER report card. They are always excellent but this was off the charts awesome, with a note from the headmaster stating what a fantastic schoolyear she had. She got a couple academic awards, and I felt that rewarding her for her hardwork was a good idea.
So that weekend ( and SS was NOT with us) I took her to the store and she got to pick out two new Webkinz.

Three days later, SS came back from his 5 day stretch w/BM with TWO new webkinz. This is pretty typical.

Thankfully, my DD didn't seem to think anything of it, nor did she even tell him the reason for her new webkinz.

But it irritated me. This is typical stuff. Thankfully, my DD never seems to get jealous of the things SS comes to our house with all the time. I think SS is just more jealous by nature. DD sometimes spends the night at my mom's house when SS is not with us---it's nice b/c it gives my DH and I a night to be kid-free and go to dinner/movie. Anyway, anytime SS hears that DD has a night planned at my mom's, he complains it's not fair.

I think his personality tends to be more high-strung and he is def. more insecure, and often insecurity comes out in the form of jealousy. Yet another reason he really, really needs counseling or some forum to work through his emotions in a constructive way.

"I mean---is this child mentally ill?"

No definately not. The child has been programmed by his mom. I know Sweeby already mentioned "Divorce poison" again but it is such an eye opening book! The behavior that SS is displaying IS calculating and it IS unnerving, but he is not ill. His mom is the one with the (personality) disorder, and it rubs off on him!!!

Divorce Poison also has tips for finding the right therapist for SS, it sounds like it's time to try another one.

The POWER of the brainwashing/bashing parent is scary. It has often blown me away too, and it still does. My best example is when BM quit smoking (yet again). Even when BM had started again, in their presence, they'd still tell us she wasn't smoking. I remember SD11 saying: "Mom bought some smokes the other day but she only smokes in the garage so she's still not smoking". Hmm. It's not logical, the skids SEE BM smoking, yet they repeat to us what BM probably said to them. And with a straight face too!

And another issue is projection. I don't know if SS projects stuff onto you guys, but it sounds like he might be. It's so simple; whatever BM does YOU get accused of. My skids have been doing thst for a long time now. A great example is phoning the other parent. We always offer to the skids to ring their mum, knowing it's important for them to check if she's ok. BM used to forbid them to ring FDH, and now that they are older she just does not encourage it (which the skids pick up on). So BM gets plenty phonecalls but we have never had the skids ring here, like ever! And guess who's blamed from stopping them talking to the other parent?? Yep that would be us. It doesn't make sense, but it's the way it goes.

That's my vent for the day...

Why is it your business if the mom smokes in the garage? Why is it OK for SMs to use kids to spy? Oh wait -- your the SO, not a SM.

What? Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed kkny?

She doesn't sound like she's using kids to spy and doesn't even sound like she cares if BM smokes in the garage (or anywhere else)! Guess you miss the point that mom is blowing smoke and kids are 'blind' to what mom is doing... mom says she quit smoking so kids 'believe' mom quit smoking, even though they SEE her smoke and KNOW she buys smokes... that's what brainwashing.. conditioning kids to believe what you want them to believe instead of living in reality does.

I guess what would be more concerning to me is having to be around, spend time with, do things for, etc. a child that has such a warped sense of reality that you cannot believe them. And when you are involved with the parent, you DO have to be around the child... most of us WANT to be around them, until they are poisoned by the other parent... which is sad for the kids being poisoned. They are the ones losing out on having more people in their life to love them.

And kids become spies when one parent inquires about stuff that happens at the other's house... or when the kid offers information and instead of brushing it off, the parent gives a reaction and starts asking more questions... that tells the child his/her 'spying' is valuable. Kids will keep bringing info to a parent that wants to hear it. and it is WRONG to encourage a kid to spy on either of their parents.

The hardest part for me when I was going through that nasty manipulative period was fighting the urge to change my actions defensively.

In other words, you know the child and other parent will twist whatever you do, so you worry about what to do far more than you otherwise would, and end up doing things you wouldn't do or NOT doing things you normally would do -- or just stressing out because you know that whatever you do, it will be made out to be wrong! So you get irritated (and stay irritated) which makes everyone else edgy and the whole family walks on eggshells. And the whole time, you're living with these people in your head! The ones who disrespect you and make you crazy. YUCK!

So how to stay sane and protect yourself?
You simply can't protect yourself from things that are said by people who are willing to lie.
All you can do is what you know to be right. To make the minds of parenting decisions you can stand tall behind and defend if/when you are called on them.

"You stole SS's phone!"
"No, I put the phone in timeout for 24 hours after we caught him texting after midnight."

"You wouldn't give SS any dinner!"
"No, I wouldn't let him make himself a Hot Pocket at 5:00. The whole family ate baked chicken, broccoli and salad for dinner at 6:30."

If you stop allowing yourself to imagine how your words and actions will be twisted, it can get easier to make (and stick to) the right decisions.

Ima, I forgot. When my D tells me stuff (as in Dads SO not working, hangs out at house all day, I dont want to go there), I am spying. When child tells Dads SO, that is different. I keep forgetting -- different rules for moms, foolish me.

"which is sad for the kids being poisoned. They are the ones losing out on having more people in their life to love them."

Exactly! Ima, my DH and I were talking about exactly this last night. BM has poisoned SS against me right from the start. This is not something that either DH or I cooked up in our heads, we have both on HUNDREDS of occasions heard BM yelling at DH, with SS chiming in in the background, about how DH loves my DD best, how I am mean to SS, I "grab his arm," I "beat him," etc. She has done this since he was 2 yrs old! She has told him that she was going to kick my @$$ if I ever touched him, she's told DH in front of SS that she was going to "claw my eyes out," and she has even shown up at DH's house and yelled about me in front of SS. In short, she has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR to SS that I am the "enemy" and that she doesn't like me.

The problem with this is SS is so torn. He does genuinely like me---draws pictures for me, laughs with me, teases me, etc. when he is with us. But there has always been a wall up, he won't fully let himself get to know me, or form a bond with me. He runs hot and cold with me. Anytime I am around and his mom is, as well, like at a school function, he is COLD as ICE to me. Seriously, he will not even make eye contact with me. Then his mom reads that as he doesn't like me, when in reality, he only acts like that when she is around. It is some sort of torn sense of loyalty.

Then the problem is SS has learned over the years that his mom will give him a huge reaction if he complains about anything at our house. I think he says things to her because he enjoys the reaction and feels it is her way of showing him love. Then the problem is, her reactions become out of control and irrational, and then SS sees the upset he has caused and genuinely feels guilty, but doesn't know how to process that guilt. So he withdraws and becomes depressed and angry. :(

"In other words, you know the child and other parent will twist whatever you do, so you worry about what to do far more than you otherwise would, and end up doing things you wouldn't do or NOT doing things you normally would do -- or just stressing out because you know that whatever you do, it will be made out to be wrong! So you get irritated (and stay irritated) which makes everyone else edgy and the whole family walks on eggshells. And the whole time, you're living with these people in your head! The ones who disrespect you and make you crazy. YUCK!"

Like Sweeby said, then I wind up walking on eggshells because I never know what he will say or twist to his mom. (I have used that expression many times on here before!) It gets so bad that I wind up dreading the time he is with us because it's so tense. Then, of course, I am sure SS picks up on my tense-ness, and he feels like I am not warm or affectionate to HIM. And the vicious cycle continues.

The sad part is, he is the one suffering the most.

My DH doesn't particularly care for BM's DH, but he WANTS SS to like him. He took SS fishing awhile ago, and DH's only comment to SS was "what a lucky kid you are to have a stpdad who does that with you." My DH doesn't feel terribly threatened by SD's role in his son's life, and he WANTS his child to feel loved and happy wherever he is.

This just sounds awful, Love. I don't know if he is mentally ill or just brainwashed or what. With all the GAL/court stuff going on, can your DH get him into counseling? I would not feel comfortable around him or having my child around him. You are right, he is the one suffering the most right now and if it doesn't stop soon, he (and any wife or children he has) will suffer for life with these issues. The cycle will continue.

I'm 40 years old and my mom called me a couple of weeks ago to ask me if my dad is still talking to a woman my mom thinks he's dating. They have been divorced since 1983. You are not going to convince me there aren't BM's out there that ask kids "So what is your dad up to?" or dig for info on the other house that is none of their business. As a child of a parent that does that, I have firsthand knowledge of what it feels like to have one parent dig for info on the other parent. I'd love to tell my mom to mind her own F*ing business! It's what I'm thinking but I would never talk to her that way... and I'm sure there are other kids in the world that think the exact same thing when they are also put in the middle.

Sweeby, I agree with ignoring the tattling and making the right parenting decisions... like defending the choice to give SD milk & juice instead of soda with dinner. (can't believe her mom actually chewed DH out over it, but it wasn't about soda, it was about power) but what I resent is having to pay $300 an hour to our attorney to defend these ridiculous accusations in court. Being in the midst of a custody battle makes me want to keep my distance from SD when she comes over and tries to set the stage to say I made her play outside in a lightening & thunder storm, etc. I know it will sound ridiculous to anyone else that hears it, but I don't want the expense of defending my actions. I've done nothing wrong. Once the court battle is over, it's an irritant when SD goes running to her mom trying to 'get us in trouble' but I don't let it change how we operate in our home. We aren't doing anything we can't defend... it's just the expense of defending it that adds stress to our lives.

I hear you Ima -- I was there... (Lived there for several very unpleasant years.)

Hadley - Do you think it would be possible to get a court order for group counseling for ALL of you together? You, DH and BM? Her husband too if he's still around? I know it would be unpleasant (been there, done that too) but it might really help, because if BM doesn't change her ways, the situation will stay bad.

Sweeby, the only way I would think that would be beneficial is if BM stops drinking.

You cannot reason with a drunk. I don't care if she has periods of sobriety, until she actually addresses the issues (behaviors) that cause her to drink, she will continue to be irrational. Personally, I think she needs more than counseling. She needs to be in AA and she needs to work a 12 step program.

If she did that, then I would think group counseling would be beneficial for all of us.

"What? Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed kkny?"

LOL!
KK lives on the wrong side of the bed!

KKNY I don't know what to make of you. Of course we don't make the skids 'spy' for us. They brought the subject of smoking up themselves, we usually don't ask about those things (BM's drinking, the smoking - while pregnant of course, and other negative trades). That is because we'd feel bad knowing that the girls would probably feel like defending their mom. So therefore we wait till they volunteer the information and then we might ask what they think about it, or how they feel. The therapist has given us really good advice on how to be supportive of them, and how to adress these kinds of issues without criticizing their mom. However we do ask the girls general questions to show an interest in their other family, which is important for them. Like about their little brother or what they were up to on the weekend? Is that allowed??

Ima already explained it very well. It's about the power of brainwashing,I guess you're not that familiar with it. Like Ima's SD saying it is raining when the sun is clearly shining (that was your post Ima, right?)

Also what is the significant difference for you between Stepmom or SO? I'm FDH's SO and stepmom to the skids. They actually started calling me that without my encouragement, they think it's 'cool' and so that's fine with me.

You always think that it's the SM's vs the BM's here, and I don't understand why? Surely you're not that shallow to assume all Stepmoms are on the same page and all BM's are on the other? Just because I'm Dutch doesn't mean that I'm on the same page as all other Dutch people, right?

Liebeth, becuase when my D volunteers stuff to me, I am accused of spying. It just seem like different standard. And I have just as much right to be concerned about her, if not more.

Some people here do have an attitude that a SM can do no wrong, but the mom is always wrong.

I dont smoke at all, and I certainly dont want any smoking in front of my child, but the garage seems OK to me.

No I do not think it is dad's GF's job to discuss what is going in mom's house.

My BF's DDs love to talk about their mother, if they talk to their father it is not my place to have an opinion on it. BUT when they critisize their mom to ME, i change the subject. i am never going to discuss their mother wiht them (beyond my mom bought a cute dog or other neutral stuff). I think it is completely inapproprite and absolutelly not your place. If children complain to their mom or dad, oh well they are their parents. And there is a huge difference between asking if you had a good time at moms and discussing mom's smoking habits.

I think this kind of lack of boundaries and oversteping that causes major issues.

Dads SO not working and hanging out at the pool all day came up in the context of my asking my D why she didnt want to go to dads. I didnt ask why she didnt like her or more details -- I just said OK.

Of course it is not spying. You ask legitimate question why she doesn't want to go there and she volunteered information. On the other hand if your boyfriend started engaging in conversations with your DD about her dad and what dad does in privacy of his home and then your boyfriend would yell at your DD if she would complain to you about something. I doubt you would condone such behavior on your boyfriend's part. That's where liesbeth doesn't see the difference.

KKNY I don't think your DD discusses you with dad's SO. and if she would, i hope your exhusband would put stop to it.

I would certainly not allow by BF to discuss anything what relates to my exhusband with my DD. It is just not appropriate. and always backfires sooner or later.

Ya, I think there should be some boundaries. Some things are just personal and I can't imagine why a stepparent would want to know. Of course there are other situations where a stepparent should know (Doodle, Mom2emall the usual disclaimers here) but in stepfamilies where there is significant involvement with both Mom and Dad, I fail to understand why a stepparent gets involved to that degree. It's not going to change anything for the better imo and I think it only fuels bad feelings on the steps side. The step most likely hears and concentrates on the worst flaws of the bio and I just don't think that makes a healthy situation.

Ooops, now I should be adding Love to the disclaimer.

"Just because I'm Dutch doesn't mean that I'm on the same page as all other Dutch people, right? "

Oh, you lousy Dutch!!
We of British decent scorn you and all that you stand for!
(And we're totally onto that you use the Belgians to spy on us)
LOL!!

Haha Ceph! Imagine how I feel living here (Western Australia) amongst all these POM's!!