I know it's hard but just don't give in to not letting her come over. The band-aid thing might work for about the first couple of hours. And yes you're right, you're bio kids will see that they can do what they want and dad/mom will give in after only a little fuss. Was it 17 yo SD's idea that 12 year old could not come, or bio moms idea?

I am not sure whose idea it was for 12 year old SD not to come over. Most likely, an idea formed by 17 year old SD and BM. My DH is very close to his younger daughter so they know that is his soft spot. They use her as their little pawn. 17 year old is who told my DH that 12 year old wouldn't be coming over, so not really not completely sure.

Maybe the 12 year old is just supporting her sister. My youngest child became very irate at her father when he embarrassed her older sibling and she (the youngest) immediately mentioned not wanting her father to come to her special events - and I was there, so I know the older sibling didn't "give her the idea."

I think it's a pity your DH chose this particular battle- in my opinion a nose piercing isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. And in just one short year or less she could have done it anyway, with no parental permission.
I do think your DH should show his DD that he is disappointed in her for disregarding his wishes- it's also a pity he chose the punishment he did, as clearly DD isn't really bothered by it. Could he change to some other punishment- denial of a planned outing, etc?
Also, I think if you don't make a big deal out of it the novelty of the nose piercing may well wear off and after a while it may disappear of its own accord. Our DD wanted a belly button ring (here they don't need parental permission if over 16). We told her she could if she got good grades that year (she was struggling a bit). She got the grades and the ring, and after a year or so it fell out in the shower and wasn't replaced. She also talked about getting a tattoo, mainly for the shock value I think, but we didn't buy into it and said, "Fine, just make sure it's something you want to live with for the rest of your life." She didn't get a tattoo.

A couple of follow ups:

theotherside: My husband had never embarrassed his children in public. Our 17 year old SD has definitely done his best to embarrass him in so many ways I couldn't even go into them now, but he is as calm as a cucumber, too much sometimes. My 12 year old SD is just like him..very meek and timid. She is easily manipulated by her BM and her sister. I say this because it has happened in the past, and when it is all over, she tells her dad about it.

colleenoz: I was afraid when I posted this it was going to become a discussion on whether or not a nose ring is right or not. I didn't want that to become the point as it was my husband's decision to say no based on information he researched about the dangers of infection if not well cared for. We just finished paying hundreds of dollars in medical bills for our 17 year old SD because she did not follow the doctor's instructions for an eye infection TWICE! Anyway, my DH does not feel she is responsible enough to handle it at this point. In addition, he is concerned about employers view of this, and finally and most important he has religious objections because of our faith. Trust me, she would be very concerned about not coming to our house....her dad has the money and transportation..she is acting unconcerned at this point because she knows he won't follow through. (he already talked to me about it tonight, and said he couldn't go through with not having her come over.) She said to him on the phone tonight, "I know you won't do anything about it, so big deal." BTW, he told our SD that she could have her belly button pierced since it wasn't as visible but that wasn't enough.

The kid who delivers for a local pizza parlor ... wears 3 bandaids on his face one on lip, one on nose, and one on eyebrow .... so she can still get a job if she wants to deliver pizza the rest of her life ...

my daughter has a few tattoos that she has to keep hidden. She had to hide them from me and her dad now her boss. Piercings were a phase she is now 22 and only has the eyebrow ... she was looking like a pin cushion for a bit. She stopped dying her hair funky colors in HS because she had a job interview, was going to be earning over $75,000 coming out of high school and they told her teacher(he recommended her for the job) they didn't hire her because of her purple hair very unprofessional. After she didn't get hired at a few more places she figured it was the piercings. So she took them out. She is now earning over $65k a yr. after 4 years of college. The day my SD turned 18 she got two tattoos...they are on her hips. She was hiding them but I "found" them. Hubby told her its your body but people will see them and make a judgement before you even open your mouth so if I were you I would hide them.

Make her wear the bandaid if she comes to visit. Keep a supply of them not fun ones either basic beige. Hand it to her as soon as she walks in the house or gets in the car.

I didn't mean that I thought your husband had embarrassed his daughter. I just meant that I have witnessed my youngest strongly siding with her older sibling when the sibling was angry at their father - in this case because the father embarrassed the older one. If the younger one is siding with the older, one should not assume their is any "manipulation" involved. Maybe the younger sibling just happens to agree with the older one.

This has nothing to do with my personal feelings on piercings - I don't like any piercings, including ears.

I don't really want to get into a debate about the merits of nose rings or otherwise either (no, personally I can't ever see me with one)- my point is that it's a pity your husband picked THIS battle, since there were so many reasons why it was a no-win situation. A classic opportunity to play both ends against the middle, your SD got the parent she lives with most of the time to sign the permission slip. And if she had been willing to wait a few months, a permission slip would have been a moot point anyway.
I can understand your DH's reasons for SD not getting a nose piercing. I hope he shared these with SD in a suitably scary way. (Stares at DD's face, turning head in different directions. "I'm just trying to imagine what you'll look like with a big scar on your nose from the infection.")
But, having made it clear he was not happy about it, if he felt the need to punish, in retrospect it would have been better to choose a punishment that was realistic and had some chance of being followed through with. One that punished SD and not Dad by denying him the chance to see his daughter. Of course SD didn't take it seriously. As Cawfe has said in this and other posts, if you want your children to believe you mean business, state a consequence for breaking the rules and follow through with it. Saying "If you don't do your homework I will rip your arm off and beat you to death with the bloody stump" clearly will not work because unless you are a violent psychopath it is an unenforceable consequence. Saying, "If you don't do your homework you cannot watch TV or play games on the computer tonight" has the possibility of actually happening.
So, as well as insisting on the bandaid, perhaps your DH could tell his daughter, "Since you did not want to do as I asked, I do not want to do as you ask. I will not (insert some activity daughter wanted to do) with you." And DON'T DO IT. If a parent keeps not enforcing the consequences, the children quickly realise the parent is a toothless tiger and totally ignore that parent's directions.

I didn't hire a hygienist once because she was replacing a very sweet and innocent looking lady leaving the office to be a SAHM. The interview hygienist had the tips of "flames" coming out from her blouse that I imagine began w/ an inferno on her breasts! Anyway, it made her look hard, and the girl she was to replace was the complete opposite and had been w/ our office for many years. I've heard it's illegal to discriminate, and I'm sure there were other reasons, but what I took away from that interview was that first impressions speak volumes!

Anyway, I have a problem in any family where the kids play one against the other. In divorce, and even in marriages, one will play the "good cop" to win temporary favor w/ the child. The BM had no business going against your DH, assuming she knew his views, etc. Besides, I'm not sure what mother would think any such piercing is a good idea! I always tell my nephews to look at their dad (my brother) and I in pics from the '70's and '80's and see how ridiculous we'd look if those clothes and hair were part of us permanently! My ex-bf's dad was a criminal defense atty for very high profile people. He stressed that you should NEVER put yourself in a position for anyone to make a rash judgment of you. Hang w/ people who look 'normal' and do the right thing.

Anyway, I have a feeling BM and this SD have been doing some behind the scene work on the younger SD. Just my gut. It's sad. Hand her the bandaid and make sure BM and DH can all be on the same page on big issues...

Dana

I have to agree with Coleenoz. This is a battle he chose to fight, but the consequence was really not viable. The daughter will undoubtedly go thru with the piercing for several reasons now:
1. It's the forbidden fruit
2. She know's it will make him unhappy
3. She'll get sympathy from Mom and Sister when she's been "banned" from seeing Dad.

Also keep in mind that DH has put a wedge into their relationship by giving her a message that if he doesn't like what she does, you are not welcome. Although I'm sure his motive was pure, it's a form of rejection to his daughter. She's able to manipulate that into "dad doesn't want me". There's no reason he can't speak with her about the dangers, and his disappointment, but that extra step of empty threats will ensure that she'll go thru with it, and end up resenting him. He could still pick up the phone and talk to her, and let her know that he still loves her.

I would personally put the ball in her court. She's to come down only if the bandages are hiding all the piercing. Also ground her for not listening in your house. Her mother allowed it on her turf. But this is your house.
1. Bandaid for the piercing
2. Grounded for 8 weeks until the nose piercing can be removed when visiting.
3. After 8 weeks, Make sure she removes it the instant she steps foot in the household
This way your kids will see that she is being repremanded for being disobedient with her father and the house rules. As well you are not being cruel as to ousting her out of the house.
Your SD made the decision against her father's will therefore she will pay the price. It is simple
If she doesnt agree to the bandaid on the piercing then say ' well we gave you a choice to see your dad and you didnt' take it. Its your decision not to see him , so he will call you on a reg basis and come to pick you up for lunch or dinner once a week and drop you back off to your moms.'
This way, he gets to see his daughters but makes it very clear to them the house rules stand.

She's 17 years old.

At this point, she needs to make her own decisions without drawing her parents into battle.

As long as her dad refuses, or forbids, or insists on a band-aid, he's keeping himself in that loop where his daughter can pull his strings, & *he's keeping her in that same loop*.

Maybe she is getting her nose pierced out of defiance, but she's too old to be still fighting those "Oh yes I will, I don't care what you say" battles.

She needs to focus her energy on her future as an adult.

If her dad had said something really mild, adult-to-adult, like "It's up to you, but have you thought about infection, scarring, first impressions?", he wouldn't have given her anything to defy.

& she'd be more likely to think about these legitimate concerns, & he'd have opened the door for her to have an adult conversation with him.

If I were the parent who had refused permission, I think I'd have both girls come for the week-end as always & not bring up the subject of piercings.

& if she brought it up, I'd say, "Oh, yes, I noticed that you did that. Is it doing all right? Does it hurt?", listen to her reply, *not argue*, & go on to the next subject.

It needs to be a non-issue.

Refusing to allow your children to visit should not be used as a punishment. The implication is that visitation is a privilege, that the child should somehow be honored that the great and powerful wizard (aka father) is willing to grant her an audience. Most 17 year olds would respond by being more than willing not to set foot in the Emerald City - and the Lion, the Tin Man and the Scarecrow (or her siblings) would likely support her by not coming either.

TOS,

"Refusing to allow your children to visit"??

There is no parent refusing to allow his/her children to visit. This is various SMs proposing to refuse visit.

This is what I see happening. SMs get upset. At same things that Mom might get upset about. Tension between teenagers, especialy Sds particulary tough. SM make decisions no parent would make. Results in estrangement between dad and kids. SM happy with estrangement. No one else. Either dad doesnt see kids, or Dads relation with SM suffers. SM blames kids, never herself.

THIS IS THE ORIGINAL POST...... IT DOESN'T SAY SM REFUSED THE CHILD TO COME OVER .......My DH told SD that she wouldn't wear it in his house, and she said she can't take it out for 8 weeks so she guessed she wouldn't see him for a couple of months. CHILD DECIDED SHE WASN'T COMING FOR 8 WEEKS.

Dad gave a consequence he knows he can't enforce but in the heat of the moment he said something that was an unreal expectation. What parent hasn't said something so dumb that you wish you could take back and re state your comments. If you do that I'll do this and knowing full well you won't do it.

This post was teenage daughter trying to get under dads skin and playing mom against dad ... mommy said she would sign... and BM slapping BD in the face again playing hero with a 17 yr old. BD overreacted because of his fears for his daughter. BM should have said something like you have to get dads permission too. My 9SS wants his ear pierced I said when mom and dad agree you can then you can not a minute before ... my mom said I could now get dads permission. Other SS 11 want to dye his hair blonde get your parents (plural) permission!!! You have two parents who have to decide things for you on medical/dental why can't they equally give permission for a child to mutilate themselves?

Even on TV they advertise children's websites and the blurb is get your PARENTS PERMISSION...

A SM is not a parent.

Glad you clarified that for me ....Now I know their behavior is not because of my lack of parenting ... since I am not the parent. Can't blame me. :-)

"He'll mope and I'll give in and let her come even though I am totally opposed to it mostly because her dad said no and she did it anyway."

It is interesting that although initially the father said that his daughter had to take out the ring in order to visit, this sentence implies that the SM is the one who gets to make the final decision about whether she is allowed to come.

As an aside, how does one get a bandaid on the nose ring to stay put? It would seem that it would interfere with breathing, and either fall out after a short time or hurt like heck when it is removed.

TOS, my point exactly -- SMs forbid visits, more often than parents.

I think the SM here is trying to support the DH, but knows that when he starts moping should SDs refuse to visit, she'll back down, stop reminding him of his exact words and make him feel better about going back on that unrealistic, initial threat.

Sorry, but most SMs get frustrated over all the games played. Heck, I don't even like the early ones I see w/ my own sons starting, so it's just a parenting dilemma. Parents need to be united. Period. It's sad when one gives in to be the 'cool' parent. It's also immature. Be a parent first, then a friend. My mother is my best friend in the world. I can't recall any unpopular decisions she made for me growing up, but I'm sure they were there. However, I also didn't want to ever disappoint her, so I walked the line!

Bottom line is also that this SD is going to be 18 w/in a year, and at that time, I assume she could legally do whatever she pleases w/ her nose...It's just a shame that the parents can't both express disapproval over something like this as it could make her think twice about it. Of course, if she's rebellious, it could sweeten the pot for going forward. Kids don't come w/ a manual. It's a shame when we can't get them to listen as we learned from our mistakes and do have some pinch of wisdom after all these years...

Also, would she think mom and g-ma would look cool w/ a nose ring? Someday she may well be a 85 y.o. g-ma w/ that thing. I laugh at the celebs w/ multiple tattoos and piercings - someday they'll be 85 wrinkled up tattooed bodies full of holes despite plastic surgery!

Good luck. We all need to vent. I think most SMs have issues w/ the DHs and their fluctuations as far as parenting go. But, it's hard when your the bioparent, too!

Dana

I truly appreciate all of the replies. I have been able to garner alot of knowledge from the different perspectives. Thank you cawfecup for reminding that my husband did not say she couldn't come to our home. He has and would never forbid them from coming over. He is simply trying to place limits and what is acceptable in his home. Also, I have not and WOULD NEVER forbid my SD from coming over. The point was she is saying she won't come over if my DH makes her take out the nose ring. That is her choice. I said my DH would back down on it and not make her take it out, just so she would come over because I know he can't go without seeing his daughter. And THAT IS WHY I LOVE HIM AND MARRIED HIM. He loves his children and I appreciate that. I'm not even going to get into the comment posted about a "SM is not a parent". I have worked full time for the majority of our marriage while BM has never worked or even bothered to attend school meetings for her kids. My DH or I take them to the doctor, the dentist, hair cuts, school shopping, field trips, etc. I took 17 year old SD to salon to get her hair done for prom, and she looked wonderful. She really wanted her mom to see her dressed up, so I told her she could invite her mom and stepdad to come over and take pics. (We live about 40 minutes apart) Her mom said she was "too busy", have dad take pics for me. SD was upset so my husband try to call and she still refused. So, please don't start with me about not being a parent. I am realizing the real problem in this situation is not the nose ring, but the fact that BM could care less about BD feelings. That is not right. When I take SD's to get hair cuts, I have my husband call BM and ask her what styles are ok with her and I follow her instructions. 17 year old SD wanted to go to tanning bed. I asked her what her mom said and she told me her mom said no, so my immediate answer was no because I would never do anything your mom did not approve of. I just wish BM would give my DH the same courtesy.

One more thing...cawfecup..great points. My DH should have just as much right to say what happens to his child's body as her BM. It took both of them to make her, he pays significant child support, and for the medical and dental insurance. He has the right (accoriding to the divorce decree) to have 50% say in all medical and educational decsisions. So, why should he not have the right to say no in this case, and have his feelings respected by the BM?