I would strongly suggest you give it much more time. I completely understand your reasoning. BUT and here is the but,,,sorry but with a psycho mom and her behaviour i would not put myself in the position again. He will accuse you again, he will lie for his mother at first and then recant it.
I know both kids are bored. BUt....what can you do?You still dont trust him. You are a really good woman, mother Lh and i understand you do care for him, you want everything to be normal. BUt as long as his mother is there, and the fact that she has a drinking issue...youwill not have peace and one you begin watching him again youwill be looking over your shoulder.
Unless, you put webcams to record the day to day things and begin doing watch again with ss., lets say once a week.
Hold off for now...but beginning watching him once a week and see if something stirs.???? and have cams for backyard, for living room , areas where you spend the most contact with ss....obviously not the bathroom..but the other cams would prove you were somewhere else in the house if he accussed you of doing anything.
Wait, dont give him a chance ...give it more time..annd then when the time comes, only watch him once a week, Have someone visit you during that time as well as a witness too.....and inform everyone concerned.

Those are all good points and suggestions, organic.

I know what you mean. Part of me knows, too, that he can be 100% truthful and still his mom will try to stir things up. Much of this is really beyond his control, so even he were totally trustworthy regarding what he says---SHE is the one I worry about more.

I just worry, too, that if she knows I am with him alone (which she will find out from him eventually) she will go right back to making accusations.

Is there a day camp or something he can be put in? Personally, I don't think you should take the risk. The BM is a wacko and the child is a liar (7 years old, but still a liar), and that is not something that is grown out of in a few weeks time.

I think you should wait. I agree with Maria that she will stir up stuff with you if she knows you are alone with her son.

And I like Sue's idea of a daycamp. Like the YMCA or something.

Yeah...I think I spoke too soon.

DH took SS to work with him this morning and BM called and SS asked if it was his mom. So DH handed him the phone in the car, and SS talked for a few mins. DH said he could totally tell BM was pumping him for info based on SS's replies.

"no, I'm with Dad."
"no, ____ isn't here."

ETC.

She's pushing the issue, so that (along with your responses) leads me to believe we should hold off.

There is a soccer camp he might be able to do in two weeks.

It's tough w/the schedule because we have him 3 weekdays one week, and 2 the next. Hard to get him in any kind of routine, esp. when a camp is concerned b/c I am sure BM would not go for it on her days.

BUT he could go on our days, and if he misses the others, oh well.

For what it's worth... GO DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR DAUGHTER!!!!

Do not sit around the house or feel guilty for SS not being able to go have fun with you.... It's not YOUR fault. Will SS be upset, well maybe you won't talk about it so much, maybe tell your DD that you don't want SS to feel left out so it can be a lesson to her about having some empathy for SS's situation. A simple "his mommy doesn't want him to go with us and I think he might be sad about it so can we try not to talk about it in front of him?" and I think your DD will understand. But, what BM is doing should not be a reason to 'punish' your DD by sitting home bored all day because SS will feel slighted. If SS hears about it and asks, "well honey, we'd love for you to go with us but your mommy might not like that." Because it really is BM that is deciding to push the issue and not you or your DH.

Did SS lie and say you hurt him? Or was it all BM who did the accusations? Or was it some combination of the two -- like BM accusing you and SS not defending you because it would be so hard to stand up against his mother?

Because SS is being punished as well as your DD. (I don't remember if that's appropriate or not.)

Are there things you could do where there would be witnesses? Can you go places with another family with similar-age kids? Bring your DD along? Maybe ask the lifeguard to keep an extra eye on you so he/she would be able to swear nothing bad happened?

I'd hate to see your relationship with SS suffer...

Sweeby,

We're not entirely sure this go around.

For the last few years, SS will periodically tell BM that I "grab his arm all the time." For some reason, this one incident where we were in a parking lot and I was holding onto both kids and I squeeezed him too tightly (in his mind, I don't even really recall the incident!) sticks out in mind. We're not exactly sure what prompts it but it seems to be when he is upset--he will tell BM that I grab him. He has also told her that I make him sit in time out all day long and that DH spanks him all the time. Neither is true.

He went through this phase a year ago where he was saying it all the time, and BM would flip her wig, call DH and yell and scream at him w/SS in the background.

Then that just sort of phased out. He was in counseling on a regular basis and the counselor told BM "he says things to you to get a reaction" and BM started not giving him one. She was doing well for awhile. Then things fell apart at home for her with her hubby working out of town, etc. Her drinking really became hard-core and then surprise, surprise, the issues w/SS making things up started again.

The night when she came to our house drunk and tried to take him---he was in his bedroom crying, I am SURE because he could see/sense what a mess she was. She was saying goodbye to him and that was when he told her I beat him and spank him all the time. It was a horrible scene. BM confronted me in front of SS (he was lying in bed under the blanket) and I told him I was very sad he would say that, and could he at least explain to me a time when that happened. I have NEVER EVER so much as even spanked him! EVER. He wouldn't even come out from under the blanket and just kept mumbling "you do, you beat me and spank me all the time." All the whole, BM was getting hotter and hotter, and then she finally just said she was taking him home with her, and that's when the whole thing ensued.

Afterwards, SS was beside himself, sobbing that it was all his fault for saying those things. He KNEW what he said wasn't true, but I think he just so badly wanted to go with his mom because he was worried about her---that he was willing to say WHATEVER he thought would work. :(

This last time--with CPS--I think it was definitely more BM than SS. He denies saying anything to her about the bruise, but truthfully---I don't fully believe him. Because he now denies saying what he said the night when she was drunk, as well. And he is so vehement in his denial that I think he really believes the version he has created in his mind.

NO and when he asks why or mom asks why tell them because they make up lies about you and you would rather not have to defend yourself against liars.

its what I tell my SD ... no I will not watch you or take you anywhere alone I do not want to be accused of something I do not do and you cannot treat me nice at home why would I take you in public and be embarrassed by YOUR behavior.

I think you should focus on your daughter. SS has his own mom. DD has you. Your DD should not suffer because of the actions of SS and/or his BM.

I would also caution you about looking after SS. The accusations she has lodged against you are very serious and could eventually affect your DD. I would NOT put myself or my child in a situation where CPS could potentially remove my child from my care (even for a short time frame) because of false allegations made by BM and SS.

If I was a teacher by profession I wouldn't take that chance with my certification. If you ever are in a position where you need to support yourself and your daughter, you need to be able to teach (I thought I remembered that you teach? Sorry if I'm wrong).

If child services gets involved and takes your daughter from your home because of allegations, I don't know but I think you would be able to get her back before long. But I would think that allegations of child abuse could affect your ability to get a teaching position for a long time.

Just my 2 cents.

I can't believe you would consider it. I see that you love him or feel bad and can see the empathy and sympathy for him in your posts. But you are in such a position that you cannot have that because you know you can see the future, even if you cannot predict the specifics. You are trying to protect yourself, so please don't waver. Besides, I guess you haven't considered you are still at risk of episodes and lies even if you are in his presence with hubby or other people around. As it is, you can't protect yourself all the time because it is impossible for an innocent person to continually watch their step, back, speech, etc., so why jump into the boiling kettle? You are constantly at risk 3/2 days a week and so your license remains in jeopardy. With him being 7 years old, 11 years until he is 18 is an awful long time for a whole lot of manufactured events to occur. You cannot let your guard down from sympathy. And, I also wish you'd do fun things with DD. You are making her suffer for being born into this sorry situation.

Definately do the normal things with DD you would do anyway. And unfortunately don't have SS stay with you yet, you can't take the risk. Go to the pool early and let DH and SS join later. It's ok to do the usual stuff with DD, it really is.

I'd even consider telling SS that you feel bad you can't look after him at the moment. So he doesn't feel rejected. It's always good for kids to hear that. And yes I realise it's a fine line as well because you don't want to badmouth BM, or make SS somehow feel guilty for having a difficult BM. But if you say it the right way, where it's about SS and not about criticizing the BM, he will get the message I'm sure.

I am not encouraging you to be alone with SS at this time but I am thinking you are in a no win situation. Now the complaint could be "they do nice things with her DD and SS gets left out" --- Just thought I would mention the possibility.

I was thinking along the same lines as Liesbeth and Eandhl. That by trying to defend yourself against BM's lies (which is really pretty impossible -- she can lie about you regardless of what you do) you've given her a lot of power over you and your life, and are living in a way that is destructive to your close and loving relationship with your SS -- the best protection against those lies.

Imagine if SS gets a nasty bruise on BM's time. BM's got all the evidence she needs to file a new case against you.
Will she be able to prove you did it? Of course not.
Will you be able to prove you didn't? Sadly, no.
(And that's why our justice system demands proof and assumes you are innocent unless proof is provided.)

Even though you may not have spent any time alone with SS, BM can still say you did it. She is willing to lie, remember? And just because it may be true that you didn't spend any alone time with SS, that doesn't make it sound any more plausible as an excuse. Wasn't there 5 seconds any time - ever - when your witness looked the other way? Or maybe your witnesses are lying for you. Or turn it around and imagine her lawyer saying how awful it must be for SS to live with someone who clearly avoids him?

Talk to your lawyer again.
Buy the book!
And don't let crazy BM run your life.

I wouldn't do it. Not at this time for the obvious reasons. It's too bad that SS misses out, but you have to protect yourself. I don't know that I would ever do it again. You can't afford to lose your livelihood.

eandhl, that's true. I'm in that same situation, damned if I do... damned if I don't. I cook, DH doesn't. When BM b/tched that I am force feeding her DD foods she hates and that equates to abuse... I stopped cooking for her & let DH fix her a bowl of cereal instead of the cooked breakfast I used to make... and a sandwich for lunch instead of a cooked lunch. The only meal I make is dinner because everyone eats it, including my kids and DH. Now, the accusation is that I feed SD a bowl of soup for dinner while the rest of the family eats the 'real' meal I fix and SD has to eat hers all alone and is sent straight to bed as soon as she's done eating... a complete outright lie. (but it comes from SD telling her I gave her soup when we were having enchiladas, which I did, when she was sick and spicy food would have made her sicker, but enchiladas are her favorite)

So, I can see that happening with LH's situation. But, LH didn't create the situation... BM and SS did. Just like my SD and her BM create the situation in our home. BM would not know what SD eats if SD did not run and tell her. At any rate, BM should be telling SD that it's dad's home, dad's rules and then if she has a problem with it, she should call DH and discuss it rationally and attempt to work as a team in raising the child, not grab the phone and yell at the other parent in front of the child and at some point, the child knows the parent will get angry, pick up the phone & make accusations and the natural consequences are that the accused stops the 'offending' behavior. The child is stuck in the middle because I know why she does it, I feel bad for her, but I also need to protect myself from accusations and I'd rather be accused of not cooking for her because I can say her father prepares her meals. LH can say that SS is with his dad when she goes places with her DD. It's not like they find a babysitter and DH goes with LH and her DD.

It truly is a no win situation because no matter what happens, BM will complain. Nothing I do is right. I tell SD to play outside, I'm 'making' her. I tell her to stay in the house, I'm not letting her play outside. No win.

Wow. I think I need to print this out and show my DH.

We were talking about it yesterday and he was pushing for me to resume watching SS. I really don't think it's because it's been tough on him taking him to work---well, that may be a part of it.

But he genuinely thinks that SS has "learned his lesson" about lying, or even exaggerating things and just trying to get a reaction from his mom in general.

He also thinks, much like sweeby just said, that BM will make an accusation if she feels like it no matter what. He thinks that me not being a primary caretaker of SS does not protect me against her crazy behavior. To some extent, I agree. If she goes off in the deep end again, she will probably say whatever, no matter what the circumstances.

His other argument is that we cannot live in fear of what BM might do. He argues that we always have the truth on our side, so we cannot worry about these things--if CPS comes back b/c of BM, so be it.

BUT that frustrates me. The police have been at my house because of BM two times in 8 weeks. The first time was one too many! I am not okay with it happening again and again, and my DD being exposed to having to give statements to CPS, etc. Every time something like this happpens it steals a little piece of the childrens' innocence and that is NOT acceptable to me.

DH thinks me not watching SS is not an assurance that I will be safe from accusations. And he is probably right. But does it make me at least safER? I don't know. I think it does.

BUt then, like sweeby said, it isn't giving me the time I need w/SS to bond more. WE do have a good relationship, particularly the more things I do with him.

Again, it boils down to, I know he loves me and wants me to like him, etc. But when he is with his mom, what he will say and do to get HER attention is a different story.

I am just scared altogether because it does seem like a no-win situation.

Bottom line--my number one priority in this is my DD and my relationship with her. That is not to say that everything else is a distant second, it is all very close---but at the end of the day, the potential consequences to HER stand above everything else, even the potential of not having a close relationship w/SS.

SIGH.

I'm going to head to Borders and get the book today!

SS going to work with his dad right now is not a punishment for the kid. It's a protection for you, given everything that's going on. I can see your husband's point, because it's not a sustainable solution to the problem, but two weeks is not really a very long time.

Have you asked your lawyer about what to do? It seems to me that your lawyer should be able to give you both reasonable advice about how you can be protected from false accusations while also not going to the extreme of SS spending all day bored in an office. Also, when is the next court/GAL date? It seems to me that this entire situation needs to be addressed with them, too.

As bad as things are now, I think I would be dreading your SS's teenage years. He's having a very messy childhood, and it seems like he's going to have a lot to overcome.

Wouldn't it be best for SS if StepMom is 'allowed' to love him fully and simply, and if he is 'allowed' to love her back?

Of course it is! And it can happen -- My older DS loves his StepMother very much and she loves him. And even though some little part of me wanted DS to clearly 'love me more', fortunately, I was able to see how important and beneficial it was for him to be able to love her too. I probably could have prevented it by using the same tactics BioDad used to make sure DS stopped loving StepDad as much as he originally did. The end result was utterly predictable -- DS now has a close, secure and loving relationship with three of his parents, and a complicated and slightly awkward relationship with the fourth.

Is your husband articulate enough and emotionally literate enough to be able to write this into an email to BioMom? It has to be in his own words -- not quoting from experts -- but a letter asking her to stop falsely accusing you and undermining his relationship with you. Explaining that while her actions do hurt you, they actually hurt her son even more. State plainly that for DS to have a close and loving relationship with you would never threaten or diminish his love for her. Ask her simply which would be better for her son -- a relationship with a StepMother that is close and loving? Or one that is guarded, suspicious and at arm's length?

Love - I think you are such a sweet, caring and loving person. And I know you want to have that bond with your SS. You CAN do things with him as long as DH is around. You can have fun at the pool or go to the mall or whatever and still bond with him....as long as DH is there. You don't need to be alone with him to bond with him.

And don't discounts your instincts as both a mother and a woman. Mother dogs are called b*tches for a reason. That's because they have the instincts to protect their babies from perceived harm. Us mothers have to be the same way and stop over-analyzing and dismissing our God-given instincts. Your first instinct is to say "NO" to watching SS alone because you are protecting your "baby".

You need to ne firm with your DH on this. You can even tell him "I know what you are saying makes sense, but I can't help this gut feeling that says it's a bad idea".

As far as SS "learning his lesson"....WHATEVER! If he didn't learn his lesson after HIS MOTHER PUNCHED YOU, then he hasn't learned it in the last 2 weeks. GIVE ME A BREAK! I'm sorry to say, but DH is going to inadvertantly put you back in a bad situation by playing on your love for his son. He probably doesn't know that's what he's doing.

Before BM blew up on FDH, he was telling me that I should re-engage with FSD because she "needs" me right now. I told him I would pray about it because I wasn't sure it was the right time to re-engage. Thank God I didn't! Because just a few days later BM was listening in on phone conversations and threatening FDH and not letting FSD come here. I would hate to know what additional damage would've been done and how I would've been brought into the arguement if I had re-engaged with FSD (by that I mean e-mailing, texting and calling like I was before).

Oh nooooo. Nope. lol, everyone above already said what I would say. Just chiming in to say no, don't do it.

I think at min you should drop in for special lunches with ss and dd ...

I just wanted to add my two cents...

One thing I noticed is that, Sweeby, you are talking about a "normal" relationship with your DS and his stepmother. You are not an alcoholic, you are not a manipulative, lying, awful person like the BM of LH's SS!! You care about your DS and his wellbeing, this BM cares about manipulating everyone involved!! You gave me some INCREDIBLY good advice on here a little while ago, about my very manipulative teen stepdaughters, their very very manipulative BM and my DH's reactions to their actions. The BM of my two SDs does NOT care what would be best for her kids , and, LH's SS's BM is very much the same, as far as I can tell. Women like these BM's care ONLY about "how can we make trouble, how can we make DH miserable and his new wife/family along with him"!!. I don't think for a second that this BM cares about what is best for her son, she cares only about what is best for HER. We have been down this road and she would just attempt to manipulate everyone around her. If DH's daughters had been younger when we had gotten together, he always says he would have fought for full custody and maybe they would have turned out differently. He is not proud of what they are. I think it is in LH's best interests to not be alone with SS BUT I also think that BM is very HAPPY that SS is not spending time alone with you LH. You could tell by the phone call that you described that she made to SS while SS was in the car with your DH. She is playing a game with you, your DH, and your family with SS and DD, but you are unfortunately being forced to play back. Have you and DH ever considered trying for full custody? I am not sure that you would win, but this BM is EMOTIONALLY abusing her son and you guys are caught in her cycle of abuse. As someone else mentioned, if you think this poor little boy has problems now, wait until he is 13....Does anyone else know she is an alcoholic? ie. her family, coworkers, friends, etc...In the meantime, why not find a daycamp as some others suggested, and don't beat yourself up about this, you didn't DO ANYTHING wrong!! And your DD deserves to have a fun summer...and it would be good to say to SS "I love our time together, but I don't want to be alone with you right now because you made up some stories about me that weren't true." Even if he is 7, he knows what he did was wrong and he needs to be accountable for his actions.

Sorry this is so long, I am going to get that book too!

PS.Sweeby, I told my DH I am not his messenger-girl/mediator/buffer/rug and that he should not allow himself to be manipulated by his ex's or by his kids'!! :D I am working hard on "me" again and trying hard to let him deal with his issues with his kids...:)

You're right Shannon --
My post was full of optimism and probably sounded pretty naive.
And I'll fully grant that I am an optimist...
But I'm not so naive that I expect it to actually work! ;-)
I do know better than that.

But what it will do is put it on record -- that Dad is calmly and positively expressing his concerns that BM's hate campaign against Love is harmful to their son.

Now if he's really, really lucky, that email might also plant a tiny seed --
-- a tiny seed of an idea that she can still be "the number one favorite Mommy" and Love can have "second place", and by allowing that, her son might be better off.
-- A tiny seed of an idea that her son will get treated better by a woman he loves and who genuinely loves him back than by a woman he doesn't respect who's walking on eggshells.
It'll probably take a while for that idea to take root -- but it could happen.

As to what these nasty, selfish and destructive woman really care about -- well, I have a slightly different slant on it.
I suspect they don't really spend so much time thinking about what is bad for me as they do thinking about what is good for them.
I think they are more selfish and self-centered than they are 'out to get' me.
I don't think they give me that much emotional real estate.

So using that logic, I would guess BM is trying to WIN, and that she is trying to make Love lose so she will win. She knows her actions have jeopardized her chances, and thinks she now can't win unless Love loses.

A slight difference -- but one that might be useful.

"Ask her simply which would be better for her son -- a relationship with a StepMother that is close and loving? Or one that is guarded, suspicious and at arm's length?"

Honestly, if she answered that, I think she would rather him not have a good relationship with me. She has been so threatened by me in regards to her son, and I guess even DH for years.

Yeah, I think she is pleased that this whole thing has thrown a wrench into our summer, and our plans.

The woman really doesn't have her son's best interest at heart. She SAYS she does---but she doesn't.

For example---4th of July is DH's holiday. Meaning we get SS Wed-Monday this coming weekend. It is technically BM's regular custody weekend, but b/c of the holiday, he will be with us. Then BM will get 2 consecutive make-up weekends.

Anyway, this past weekend she sent DH a text message sying SS really wants to be with her this weekend (says who???) and that it's not fair to him to have to be with us. DH texted back that it is parenting plan by the book from now on and he knows SS will have fun. BM texts back that she is going to make sure SS resents his dad for this and she hopes and prays when he is older that he doesn't want anything to do with dad.

Ok, what kind of mother says that? What mother actually WANTS her child to have a bad relationship with his dad?

This is just how BM is. DH stopped responding and she continued to send a slew of texts saying that this is not fair, it is HER weekend, and she "deserves" to have SS this weekend. IT IS ALL ABOUT HER.

The thing is--I can TOTALLY understand and empathize with her disappointment. I would be disappointed if I were in her shoes. It is crappy that she won't celebrate the 4th w/her son. But you know what? She's had him with her for the 4th the last 3 years in a row. Plus, this is just the reality of co-parenting.

And even if she is disappointed---a rational, caring parent would not try to knock the holiday for their child. They would simply say "well, this year you are going to be with dad and have a great time, next year you are going to be with me."

So Sunday night DH talked to SS at bedtime and found out what prompted this. I guess this weekend SS was at BM's parents' house, and some other family members/cousins, and BM's nutty mom was talking to him about all the fun they have planned for the 4th and can he "ask his dad" if he can be with them?

AUUGHHHHHHHH. Time and time again, not only BM, but her stupid mom, continue to put SS right smack dab in the middle.

Luckily, SS was totally fine and didn't say anything to DH about wanting to be w/BM--he just said that BM and grandma are going to miss him.

"SS going to work with his dad right now is not a punishment for the kid."

I am inclined to agree with this statement. Don't put yourself at risk.

I have only been able to spend the 4th with my DS like twice since the divorce, and this year is no different. That's because X has 1st, 3rd and 5th weekends. I only get DS when the 4th falls on like a Tuesday or Wednesday. If it falls on a Monday, Thursday, Friday or weekend, it almost always falls on the 1st weekend of the month.

I have made sure that when I do have DS, I make it a good one. Although I would love to have him, I've grown used to it. Same with Labor Day. I will NEVER get DS on Labor Day unless I make a "deal with the devil". So I am resigned to not being with DS that weekend.

How does all this help your situation? I have no idea......ha ha ha! I guess I just needed to get it out! Maybe I'm not as resigned to it as I thought I was..... Darn it! And here I was thinking I was all grown up!

Can I assume that your DH is saving those texts? They might be needed in the future.

"he just said that BM and grandma are going to miss him. "

This is addressed in divorce poison and I have experienced it via my SC .... mom would drop them off saying "I am going to miss you so much I am going to be so lonely while you are with daddy all I am going to do is cry and think about you while we are apart ... you get the idea ....

She is making her emotional well being based on HIM being with her if he is not with her she will never be happy in turn "explains" her drinking to ease the pain of missing him etc.

it took 4 years to get it through my SS's heads still hasn't worked with SD10 but she is the same way with her mom tells her mother the same things she will miss her too much she should have to be without her etc.... now she is with her 24/7

It takes alot to unbrainwash a kid .... nothing you say or do will help him he needs a third party to sort it out with him.

AGAIN DO NOT WATCH HIM under any circumstance and when asked why tell him ... why you will not ... he is 7 knows what a lie is .... be honest with him .... because of his lies you could lose your own daughter plain and simple.

I know as for most people finances are tight .... hubby told his ex he is not a daycare she has to find someone to care for SD while they both work ... pseudo works fulltime too can no longer ask her to watch "our" children.

Her babysitter quit after 2 days being with SD. Another lasted 1 day .... 10 days into summer vacation and SD is out of babysitters. She has been here twice and caused so much havoc in the neighborhood .... neighbors do not want her to play with their children or pets. (She let the neighbors puppy out of the yard) (She teased another neighbors 2 sons)told another neighbor you're not my mother you can't tell me what to do .... its a wonder she has no friends.