Most of it sounds normal when there is a parent brainwashing a child. And the exaggerating minor wounds...well lots of kids do that! My ss will get a little scratch and squeeze till blood comes out and cry about how bad it hurts!

But the saying there is a storm outside and lightening when the sky is sunny and warm? That is a bit much!

If it were me I would have called her out on that right then so it did not become a story for her to tell. Because I could picture her going back and telling everyone how you don't let her play outside usually, but then forced her to play in a storm with lightening hitting trees next to her...and she was so scared and had to beg you to let her inside the house.....lol!

What does the counselor say about all this??

It is sad that bm ignores her so much except for when she is filling her head with all this "move in with me" stuff. If bm does get her then what?? SD still stays with grandma and bm collect more cs? And then sd is miserable because she followed bm's plan and it did not work out as she hoped. BM still ignores her.

SAD!! BM is a real piece of work.

Oh Ima. I am so sorry.

It is so hurtful when these kids that we try to help and care for on a daily basis turn against us because of the other parent's insecurities. :(

I have gone through all of these things with my SS.

He genuinely wants to like me and DOES like me, I know this, DH knows it, we all do. But since he was 2 yrs old, his mom has programmed him to believe that I am the enemy. Because for WHATEVER reason she feels threatened by me.

And he is so loyal to her. I think in truth---he desperately needs to believe that his mom is his protector, his safety net, and that she can do no wrong. As a child, a mom is supposed to be all those things----and if my SS were to think for even a minute that his mom not be that way, that she is out of control, or doesn't have his best interest at heart, that leaves HIM feeling vulnerable and scared. He needs his mommy to be what she is "supposed" to be, and he will pretend that she IS, even in the face of crazy behavior on her part.

I think your SD is going through the same stuff. She wants so badly to believe that her mom loves her, wants the best for her--most of all, she wants the attention from mom that she hasn't gotten most of her life. NOW she is finally getting her mom's attention, and the fact that it's at your expense doesn't really matter to her. OR--maybe it does bother her on some level, but she just has to suppress any feelings about hurting your feelings. :(

Just out of curiousity--what does SD say about her dad? The funny thing is, SS's BM doesn't usually say negative things about DH. I truly think if I were out of the picture, she would have NO PROBLEM with SS having a great relationship with his dad. It's me/what I represent that she takes issue with. Good God, I would not want to spend a day in either of our BM's heads!

I kinda did call her out on the thunder/lightening crap. The front door was open (because it was such a nice day) and I pointed out and said 'you don't HAVE to play outside, I just thought you'd want to... it's such a nice day. But, it is NOT raining and there is no thunder or lightening.' I also imagine her puffing it to say lightening barely missed her... kinda like the bullet her mom says barely missed her in the car.

SD said a few negative things about her dad that were not true, but not to the level she went with me. She said she loves her dad but he ignores her, he's always at work, when he is home he doesn't spend time with her, etc. She tossed her dad under the bus, in my opinion. Yeah, he works... but he also gets her up every morning, fixes her meals & gets her off to school. He gets home about 3 hours after she gets home from school, so she is with me or my kids until then. He checks & helps her with her homework while I fix dinner. He spends most of the time after he gets home from work, with her. If he goes outside, she goes with him. We eat dinner as a family (she said she is made to eat dinner alone) and then she goes to take her shower & get ready for bed (she said she is sent straight to bed after dinner) and then he usually reads to her or she reads to him, he tucks her in and then I might get an hour or two of his time to sit & watch TV or a movie. (she said he spends all his free time with me)

She took it to such an extreme, it would be hard for anyone to believe everything she says is true. It's so scary how she seems to believe it as the truth now... how can a mom brainwash their own child like that? I know some people think parental alienation is not real, but how else can it be explained that a child that clearly loves everyone and wants everyone to love her, would go off and say such bad things about her dad and I? Well, I understand saying it about me... but her dad?

I think her mom would be happy if I give up, walk away from hubby and she too would have no problem with DH and SD. It is all MY fault.... she resents my presence in their life and we know it's not 'me', it would be anyone he found happiness with.

It's weird... she called him up when my grandson was born and wanted to congratulate him on becoming a grandpa... like she & he were best friends. They have been at odds over custody/support for months but she called him at work like they were good buddies. He says he was taken aback by it. She has also called him a few times to talk about her wedding plans (that was a couple of years ago... obviously she hasn't married yet because she's still married to her first husband) but he also did not want to chit chat about a wedding HE knows isn't going to happen; and if it is going to happen, why would he want to talk to her about it... other than to say congratulations? She has gone on his myspace and left comments on pictures taken when SD was a baby... "awww, remember when I took that picture?" like she is reminiscing of their life together. What's weird about it is her doing these things when they are in the midst of a custody battle. She will send him nasty emails but send him friendly comments? He has rules for SD, but she says that I am the one that runs him... that I make him have those rules for SD. Somehow, everything is my fault or because of me.

It's just so frustrating and draining. With the lousy economy, we don't need the added expenses of a custody battle. Lawyers, transcripts, evaluator, counselor, court costs, time off work, etc. And that's just the money aspect. The stress is affecting everything in our lives, including our marriage; though DH has been great about talking and working things out. But, like I said in another thread... I have other stresses that deserve my attention more, like my own kids... my son that is going to be deployed. my grandson that is living with a 19 year old bi polar mother that may not be able to handle being a single mom for a year, but has chosen to move across the country, away from her mom, dad and me... so she has no support system. and of course, my businesses deserve my attention since it is my income that is allowing DH to fight for his daughter... who is screaming from rooftops that she hates me and I hate her.... It's just almost more than I can take.

CALGON anyone???

"I think her mom would be happy if I give up, walk away from hubby and she too would have no problem with DH and SD. It is all MY fault.... she resents my presence in their life and we know it's not 'me', it would be anyone he found happiness with."

EXACTLY.

Ima, I swear you and I are living parallel lives here!

SS's complaints about his dad to his mom are similar--he says that his dad scares him, his dad ignores him, etc. My DH is a very involved dad, and is the type that is always playing w/the kids when he's home---he is the dad at the pool that's in the water, giving piggy-back rides, going down the water slides, etc.

BM is also friendly (or she tries to be) to DH. Just last week, she was talking to him about she and her DH having another child and how excited she was about that possibility. (OK first of all---my question was WHY did DH even tolerate that convo?) But that is how BM is, she constantly tries to get little chats going with him.

That's why I still think, deep down, depsite all the time that's passed, despite the fact that she is married with another child, she still would want my DH back.

Or maybe not that----but she certainly doesn't want anyone else to have him.

Ima... do you say something to her ... and she runs to daddy and whispers how mean you are because you told her to _________ like you can't hear her whispering to daddy!!! And then sit by your side like nothing is wrong. :)

I said to SD the other day if you are going to use the wet wipes in the bathroom to close it when you're done or they won't be moist wipes they will be dry wipes.... she ran to her dad whispering how I told her she couldn't use the wipes anymore. Next thing I know she is sitting by my side asking me to take her to the lizzie borden museum again!!

(She is still fascinated how lizzie got away with killing her SM and Dad so many years ago!!!)

Guess that's re-writing present too :)

She doesn't whisper in dad's ear when I'm around, he won't allow it. She does wait until they are alone to talk, but not so much to complain about me. One of the things she accuses him of is siding with me and he never believes her. UM, it's called a united front my dear... we are a team and he sure does say something to me if he thinks I'm being unfair in any way. But, she doesn't really complain to him about me because she knows he will get the whole story from me in front of her so she isn't getting the result she gets from telling her mom things.

But, she did talk all friendly with me all the way to the counselor. Went in and told the counselor how awful I am to her. Came out and asked us if we'll take her to Marine World again?

"Next thing I know she is sitting by my side asking me to take her to the lizzie borden museum again!!'

I wouldn't let THAT kid anywhere near that museum!...
Talk about fodder for nightmares...

I have never taken her ... I meant asking again if I will !!! not that dumb .... for christmas she'll be asking for a "hatchet"!!!

I don't think she wants him back... not positive but pretty sure. Here's my analysis:

He's a little 'nerdy'. He isn't the star quarterback or body builder or don Juan, he's a really nice guy that's always been a bit shy... very few girlfriends, etc.

She's a party girl. She thinks of herself as 'hott' and sexy. She'd like to think she can have any man she wants... and she can get boyfriends, just can't keep 'em.

He broke up with her. I think it was a blow to her ego since she probably thought she was doing HIM a favor by even dating him. She got a boyfriend right away after their break up (DH thinks she might have been seeing him before the breakup but has no proof) and he didn't date hardly at all. He had one relationship where he lived with a girl for a while, but she had three young kids and there were problems... I think partly because she was much younger than him and because she had problems with SD... I'm sure BM has been supportive of SD's treatment of dad's relationships. SD was 3 or 4 when he had that GF. But, otherwise, DH has been single until me. When DH and I married, she dumped her BF of 5 years and started hunting for fresh meat... then met current BF. He's much better looking than her last BF and I wondered if she hoped to make DH jealous or if she is just trying to 'outdo' him ~ her BF is better than his wife (me)?

It's just a theory... I don't know what goes on in her head. I certainly would not want to spend a minute in there to figure it out.

Ima, I've learned that sometimes you have to call their bluff. You KNOW that BM does NOT want SD. BM is only doing this because she doesn't want to pay child support. If she did get custody, could you document evidence that SD was really staying with GM and get the order reversed? Maybe it wouldn't even get that far... If BM thinks there's even a possibility that she's going to get saddled with SD then maybe she'll tuck tail and run like she did the last time. And I really don't want to even mention this but what if...you dropped the child support issue and let BM have her way? She doesn't pay but your DH keeps his DD? Really, how much will you ever see from her anyway? She's more or less worthless, in more ways than just financially speaking...

My opinion? I think it's time to disengage. You've got too much going on to spend another second dwelling about THEM. It's a lose/lose situation for you as your involvement is only adding fake fodder to BM and SD's fake flames.

I totally agree with you lonepiper. I have told DH (shhh, don't let KKNY hear this...) that he should skip some of his weekends in summer and let BM be 'stuck' with SD on a weekend she is expecting us to come get her. BM is going down to her mom's the day before we go get SD & bringing her back just so we have to drive an extra two hours each way. I told DH that he should wait until BM has gone to get SD, then tell her he can't make it. Then BM would be 'stuck' with SD all weekend and have to get her back to her mom's house.

Who would look worse? DH for missing a weekend with SD or BM, if she complains she HAD to spend a weekend with SD? DH doesn't want to look bad but I think SD would like to spend a weekend with her mom, instead of spending all her time at grandma's and dad's.

That thought aside, I have also considered what life would be like without SD living here. No more getting up early to get her up for school, worrying about her laundry being done, is there enough lunch supplies for this week, did she brush her teeth, do her homework, what needs to be done for school, it's spirit day~ does she have the right clothes?, etc. There is so much to raising a kid and we would be kid free, we could plan our weekend to just go have fun with SD and not worry about being responsible for everything. We could live like the newlyweds we are... we have not had a real honeymoon period, the court battle started just a few months after the wedding and the complaints re: SD began before the wedding so it's been a thorn in our side THAT long. If SD is with BM all week, all DH has to do is call her a few times a week, and keep in touch with her school. No more answering to BM about why we have this rule or that rule... we won't have ANY rules! (okay, I got carried away~ lol)

Getting an order reversed is very difficult. If GM moves to the town BM lives in, she could be living with GM but registered in school at BM's address and it's a small town, they could say she's just visiting GM, A LOT. Or the other possibility (and more likely) is that GM is going to move in with BM to help pay the bills or GM is going to rent a house; BM & BF will move in with her. They can't afford the house they are in now. At this point, we don't know for sure what their plans are and their plans may be hinged on the custody ruling.

It's not about the money for us. She was ordered to pay $216 and we cannot waive that. BM is the one that initiated the child support issue against DH and now that there is an order, he cannot terminate it. It's SD right to be supported by her mother. She was ordered to pay minimal support, based on minimum wages. However, he believes she wants custody so she can get support from him. If SD lives with BM (w/EOW to DH).. based on that time share and DH's income, he would be ordered to pay her nearly $900 a month. I am willing to pay it. It would be cheaper than what it's costing us to fight it... that's for sure.

But, once BM has an order... the burden is on DH to prove SD isn't living with BM and that it's in SD's best interest to come back to live with us. That's a hard thing to do, just as it will be be for BM to prove in court that it's best for SD to go live with her... after she willingly gave up custody, in essence she was stating it was best for SD to be with dad... and it's been that way for 2 years and now that DCSS is making her pay the back support, it's suddenly unsafe for SD to remain here and I am a terrible person to her daughter... the exact same claims she made in the first trial, BEFORE she left SD with us.

I'm prepared for it to go either way. DH is not willing to give up SD without a fight and as a parent, I can understand his point. I also see yours, and I agree but I also feel the need to support my husband. But, I would hate to be on the other side of the fence, trying to get custody back when SD is living with GM and having to prove our case. Right now, the burden is on BM... that's why she's trying so hard to brainwash SD to hate us. She will crawl back into the woodwork when she a) runs out of resources to keep fighting; b) loses; c) wins and doesn't know what to do with SD... I agree with you, it's a lose/lose no win for anyone here.

Oh I am shocked -- a SM consdiering telling her DH to cut visitation. Shocked. Shocked.

Oh darn, you heard my private convo with lonepiper!

I didn't consider it... I flat out told him that's what he should do... yeah, shame on the SM. (I did however consider that SD might want to actually spend time with her mom this summer and THAT might be the ONLY way it will happen!)

Ha, but are you shocked that a BM that has 6 days a month during school year and is supposed to have all summer, cuts it down to less than one day a week during summer? Yeah, it was probably her BF that won't let her kids come over... let's not blame the mom for not seeing her kids... LMAO!

KKNY, you crack me up!

I have commented previously on your SD's mom. I do understand your need to vent. But it would be nice if you could ever admit that not all SMs are perfect.

Ima, I have to admit that I've tried to scheme and make my stepdaughters' mother spend more time with them!! The way I see it - they are BEGGING to spend time with her and she appears completely oblivious to their deepest desires. The girls are with us ALL the time, they don't spend much time with their mom (just like your SD), sometimes a little divine intervention is needed! She might not be happy but they are!

ok Not all SM's are perfect!!

Same as not all BM's

Or people for that matter no one is perfect

But doing the best with what we are dealt.

Nobody is perfect... I don't differentiate between BM or SM... Mom or Dad... Black, White, Brown... Male or Female... Gay or Straight... or any other 'category'. We are all human... we all make mistakes and people that do wrong are people that do wrong... it doesn't matter if they happen to be a SM. As I have said, I have been a MOM for 23 years. I have been a Step mom for almost 3 years. Yet, you choose to not look past the fact that I am a SM.. instead of seeing that I was a mom for 20 years first. It seems YOU are the one that needs to learn how to admit that being a SM does not make a person the type of person they are... being a lousy person has nothing to do with titles.

Ima, I realize you have been a mom for 20 years. I dont overlook that.

Not to nit pick, but I have been a mom for 23 years. (I don't subtract my time as a Step mom)

don't know what ya'll are talking about . . . I am as perfect as they come!!

Gag.

I do understand the desire to make BM put up or shut up. I know she tells SD she should live with her, but we all know (SD included) that when it came down to it BM couldn't handle it. The thought of calling her on her bluff is SO tempting though . . .

mmmm...yah some more time with her daughter is needed:) She should thank you! she's going for custody right? she might as well get use to having her 24/7. Your being helpful to her by skipping a few weekends...

worth repeating

"being a lousy person has nothing to do with titles"

I would never condone cutting visitations but under these circumstances I sure would.

DH should wait until mom picks SD up, then call and say he has a stomach flu and can't get there. Normally any normal mother would be excited that she finally can spend weekend wiht her daughter. BM will be miserable and maybe even change her mind about custody, she will realize she will have her daughter wiht her on the weekend at some point!

SD lying is not normal, I wonder if she needs child psychologist to do some evaluation, just not normal. I remember DD very clearly at 10, she loved fantazy in terms of playing wiht her toys imagining stuff like stuffed lion lives in a castle, this sort of stuff, but nothing of what you described.