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serenity_now_2007

Hopper2008

serenity_now_2007
15 years ago

[Continuing this thread from the last one, b/c the other one's reached its max and b/c it's also gone kind of off-topic]

Hopper,

After reading your last post, I am actually quite impressed with your perspective and articulateness. I was glad to be corrected on a few things I'd made assumptions on [my mistake], and in some ways it sounds like you and I might actually get along swimmingly in 'real life'...

I do have a few more questions. First, you mentioned that you have 'the one thing' that your husband's first wife did not have. By that I wasn't sure if you meant something specific such as the ability to work with him in the job context or something broader, as in a better relationship in general. Second, how old are you? (Not to judge you based on your age, because it seems clear to me that you are in several ways 'ahead of your years', but just to get an idea.) Third, I take it you don't have children, but correct me if I am wrong on that.

Having a better day than I did yesterday, I will try to offer my perspective without getting too bitter-sounding about it, and ideally you will take from it an 'inside view' into an adult SD's mind. I'll break it into chunks:

-First of all, you are correct that the SD's have some insecurities that are coloring their view of you. To some extent, that would be the case no matter who or what the circumstances, as you already realize. I speak from what I consider to be self-aware experience. My biological parents married when they were in college and also "grew apart" (to put it simply). They had some things in common that my dad and his current wife will never share (i.e. a certain kind of intelligence, sense of irony and a level of discernment that SM doesn't possess; also, my dad was much more free-thinking and liberal in his worldview then ---my mom still is--- and my SM has sort of turned him into this reactionary pseudo-redneck type, at least on the surface and in certain moments). But my mom & dad also had plenty of problems, and it is equally true that my dad and SM share things my mom didn't (i.e. a more relaxed attitude about household aesthetics, an appreciation of "meat n' potatoes" American-ness, a sense of humor just of a different kind, and probably better sex because my mom was a virgin and dealt with some heavy issues with that early in her life.... yes, mom & I talk very openly... lol) My point in all of this is that as much as I love both my parents and want them to be happy past, present and future, there is always going to be a part of me that hurts as the 'product' of the [relatively] 'failed' union. It evokes deep insecurities about being lovable, on both sides, when 'who you come from' ---both of them--- were ultimately rejected as mates, and in the really official way of a divorce. It also establishes a fear that relationships don't last, that you may have 'inherited' the tendency ---again, from both sides--- to just not be quite up-to-par. Thus, it's classic that children of divorce deal with more insecurity & abandonment issues. But here's the thing: I don't in any way feel annoyed or competitive or irritated that my mom and *stepfather* have a 'better' relationship than my mom and dad had; but I do feel irritated hearing such from my SM (and she loves to say so all the time). Maybe it's a gender issue, maybe it's because I know my Dad cheated on my mom (thus activating the 'sub-par' factor), but I think a large part of it is SM's attitude of superiority and constantly having to prove herself to be 'Number One', 'first', 'better', in a way that my step-dad would never ever do. Hopper, I picked up a bit of that attitude in you yesterday. Today your post showed a lot more perspective and humility, and I can tell that you're not quite the arrogant person I presumed you to be yesterday. But the thing is: DO YOUR SD'S KNOW THIS? Do they see that humility in you? Have you talked to them openly about these things, trusted them with those moments of vulnerability? You may be giving them an impression of arrogance you don't intend, one that might not even be remotely who you are. And in your case where it wasn't DIVORCE that ended the previous marriage but the DEATH of their mother, there is even more potential for any perceived arrogance on your part to feel like a slap to their mother's face. I'm not saying change who you are or how you behave. But it's an insight as to why you might be encountering their distance and dislike. If you don't care, you don't care, but then you have to realize that the tension will manifest somewhere in your lives and you will have to be prepared to deal with it.

-The other main point I'd want to make has to do with your husband. Yesterday I made a point of showing how people who say they aren't in control of what their spouse does regarding his/her children often ARE in more covert ways when there's a situation where the kids get rejected, dissed, abandoned in a way that seems disproportionate to whatever their "wrongdoings" (or, more often, just "wrong feelings") are. It's also possible, as I suspect it may be in your situation, that the step-parental spouse has more influence than THEY THEMSELVES EVEN KNOW. In other words, you may not even be aware of how you are affecting DH's attitude towards his daughters. But consider his attitude at this juncture. He is clearly evidencing a defensive kind of hard-line stance with them that suggests he has felt he needs to make a choice, and thus aggressively rationalize the choice he has made by drawing this hard line. He is clearly NOT being empathetic to whatever they might be feeling, not bothering to even ask them to discuss it with him in a safe way where they won't be invalidated for sharing their feelings. He obviously does not 'approve' of insecurity, choosing to condemn it and reject it outright rather than understand it. Why? That is just not very bio-parental, as a parent generally feels an instinct to know, understand and help heal their child's hurts. Something is driving this hard-line approach of his. Something is making him perceive that the situation doesn't allow for his daughters to have their personal feelings (regarding you) and wishes met without it causing some kind of other unpleasant consequence. He is willing to even give up being present at his own daughter's wedding to avoid that negative consequence, and that is NO SMALL THING. It may very well be not at all your doing; maybe you try with all your might to encourage him to understand, listen to and love his daughters as best he can. But if it *IS* just him creating his hard-line stance, I would seriously look at that. If it's not anything *you're* saying or suggesting, why is he being so un-empathetic and invalidating of their needs? If he's at all intelligent, he will no doubt be aware that the death of their mother and his remarriage to a woman younger than them is going to raise some issues and be at least somewhat difficult for them to absorb. Is he averse to insecurity in general? Does he avoid dealing with it in himself? Does he have any lingering animosity towards their mother that might be being projected onto them? Or, conversely, does he feel a need to distance himself from them because the pain of watching his wife die of cancer was too much to bear? This is part of why I painted the doom-and-gloom scenario I painted yesterday about 'watch out for when he starts hating you'... His attitude toward his daughters (and their mother) is inextricably bound, in one way or the other, to his attitude toward you. It may be a parallel relationship, may be an inversion, may be a prognostication of what may happen if YOU ever dare to express insecurity, immaturity, etc. (There's already going to be a structural similarity in the relationships because it's extremely difficult in relationships with big age diffference to not in some ways replicate a "parent-child" relationship, even if it's not an obvious connection; thus, in one way or the other, you are somewhat of a 'daughter' to him, whether or not you and he cringe at even the thought of it.) It's in everyone's best interest to seriously consider why it seems so evident that DH will so definitely drop someone (his daughter on her wedding day) for the sake of someone else. Ideally, the feeling that he has to choose, or that there will be negative consequences on BOTH sides, should be minimized. Something is prompting him to turn away from his daughters, and it's just plain not a good enough reason for it that they happen to be having some issues with your existence. Because that is normal and to be expected; it's not insurmountable, either, but a lot of that depends on how much he is willing to truly empathize with their feelings and needs. If he's not, he stands a great risk of losing them, and unless he's made of ice, losing them won't be easy for him, and it will come to affect you too.

I hope my perspective helps, I really do.

Comments (11)

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    how can someone turn the other person into ultra conservative or pseudo-redneck etc? I don't see how can capable adults can be changed by someone else.

    frankly most subsequent relationships are better than previous ones mainly because people are more mature and learned from their mistakes. it does not mean one has to insist on this in front of other people, but it is the case...

    my current relationship is way better tnan my previous marriage or in fact any previous relationship, and my X's current relationship (soon to be marriage) definitelly is better than what we had simply because he is not 19 anymore. lol

    it does not make me feel bad at all, he does not have to tell me that, i know that mature relationships just have to be better due to lessons learned and life expereinces. No need to fell insecure or upset. In fact I am pretty sure that DD knows that our current relationships are better than young marriage we had. She is not insecure that dad is with someone else. she just knows mom and dad moved on and are not young people anymore.

  • kkny
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    FD, Not everyone's first marriage was as a teen. My X and I were both college educated, working, in our 20s, when we met and got married. Whether the relationship he is in now, which was started while he was married (and isnt that really the mark of emotional stability) is better, I guess is for him to say.

  • mom2emall
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    KKNY,

    Even a marriage that started when someone is in their 20's is going to be a marriage that is probably not as mature as a marriage by people who are in their 30's of 40's. That is just do to age and experiences, which leads to maturity. In your 20's, in your first "serious" relationship, you are still learning a lot.

    Not to say that there is not still a lot of learning to do when your older, becaust there is. But you have the experiences of a failed relationship/marriage to learn from when your older.

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    kkny i agree, but still relationships that started in 20s are quiet different than the ones that start in 50s. 20s is still young. iam not saying your marriage was bad at all. mine was not bad either, but let's face i do not make same mistakes again and my SO is trying not to do what he did in his 20s. i got married while in college and working, same as my X. we weren't children and both are and were very serious people, but college education and work is not necesarilly what makes people that mature though relationship wise. i am a different person now.

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I once told my SO that i wished I knew him when we blth were younger and he said he is glad I didn't know him when he was in his 20s-less considerate and less mature emotions wise . He said he is a much better partner in 50 (although not perfect) than when he was in his 20s. and i believe him.

  • serenity_now_2007
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think there are hard-and-fast rules, only generalizations which are probably more-or-less-true but not always. Yes, it's probably generally true that people tend to get wiser and more mature with age (and therefore bring that to their relationships), but it's just as often NOT true. Some 20 year olds are far more mature than some 70-year-olds. Sometimes, those same crusty, difficult 70-year-olds soften and sweeten and become wonderful company in their 90's (case in point: my grandfather). Some people learn positive things from their life experience, other people get embittered by it, take up heavy drugs and start chasing prostitutes. Some people lose their sense of fun and spontaneity and become robots of the system as they get on in years. Some people get more desperate with age, some people finally learn how to be satisfied and at peace. At any point in your life, if the stage you're at isn't where your partner is at, it can adversely affect a relationship. To take a common example, even if a woman gets better with age, too often her husband is not going to see it that way (lol) which will have a way of screwing up the relationship that might not happen 20 years prior. There's really no way to make a blanket statement about relationships ALWAYS improving with age or ALWAYS going downhill... people and circumstances just vary.

  • kkny
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    According to my DD, X looks at the years we were first married, before having a child as the golden years (I wish he wouldnt say that to her) and frequently reminices about those days. I think trying to recapture your youth, rather than beeing happy at whatever age you are is better.

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    years when i was first married were probably golden years for me too. and i do like to remember those times and tell about them to DD. I was 20 when we met, are you surprised those were the golden years? and your X was young and not having kids and having more fun in life and more energy. nothing is wrong with telling kids about that. DD knows we were very much in love and happy.

  • kkny
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I dont want her thinking she wrecked it all.

  • kathline
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Even a marriage that started when someone is in their 20's is going to be a marriage that is probably not as mature as a marriage by people who are in their 30's of 40's. That is just do to age and experiences, which leads to maturity. In your 20's, in your first "serious" relationship, you are still learning a lot

    I agree...and I dont. I have seen an awful lot of freshly divorced people jump into another marriage quickly, because they need financial security, and/or they are afraid of ending up alone.

    I would guess it depends on the reasons, quality, and character of the people involved, regardless of age.

  • pseudo_mom
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My sister and her hubby were married for 10 years before they had children .... then had 2 children in less than 2 years.... they now refer to those years as BC (before children) when they bring up something they used to do but cannot now ... like take off on a whim on a weekend or go out on the motorcycle for a weekend adventure those days are now refered to as BC (before children). Not quite the same as golden years but I have thought how it would effect the children to hear that .... guess it gives the kids something to think about too .. how much fun would they be having if we hadn't been born kinda thing.

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