Baby goats will always act hungry. Feed them the recommended amount, then leave some hay free choice & they'll start to nibble. I wouldn't give them apple at this age, particulary since they've only been on the bottle for 4 days. Show them hay is good to the best of your ability. Right now they are still single-stomached animals, and their rumens are just starting to function. You don't want to be changing their feed quickly or in quantity as they can get very ill. Moderation is the key. Jack Maulden, google it (Boer Goats) has a recommended feeding schedule on his website if you don't have one available. We dam raise whenever possible & only have had a few bottle babies so I don't remember it. You are correct they should have solid food available at all times-preferably hay, leaves are good too. After feeding, feel their stomachs. They should not feel hard, nor empty. A little squishy. Compare before and after feeding so you know what I'm talking about. In another week you should be able to knock the feedings down to 3x a day, then 2 later. Offer a bowl of fresh water, but not too much as you don't want them to fill up on all water & not take the bottle, they've actually been known to starve in this manner. Keep a low sided water bucket low so they can't possible drown! Was the mom vaccinated at all? CD/T is a good vaccination to give them for overeating disease. They don't need it but it is common practice. If mom wasn't vaccinated, they should get 2cc sq(under skin) at 1 month, 2 months, and 3 months (21-28 days apart). If mom was vaccinated, they should receive 2cc at 2 months & then 21 -28 days after. Then yearly after their initial & booster shots. They are really too young to be showing vitamin deficiencies, unless mom was deficient. Selenium deficiency is the worst offender but usually shows up as hard sacks or weak back legs at birth. Offer a free choice LOOSE GOAT mineral, preferably one made for your area, they won't eat much maybe you could buy some from a local until they get bigger. Goats are not the same as sheep, so you should be giving them goat products. Many feed stores (in this area, anyway) don't understand this so do your homework! Make sure those pellets are labeled for GOATS, NOT goats & sheep. Scours are common with milk replacers. We've fed whole cows milk with no issues at all. If you get scours it's probably the replacer, then switch them slowly to whole cows milk, controlling diarhea with pepto. This is a common mistake with people new to bottle babies, so be aware. Watch for the runs, listlessness, inability to stand, couphing, runny nose, noises in their chest, runny eyes, or staying off by themselves, or a fever. Classic symptoms of an issue either starting or that have taken hold. Supplies can be found at hoeggers, caprine supply, jeffers livestock, and many others found online. Tractor supply & Agway depending on your area carry some items, selection can vary. Brendasue

joe, the bottom line is that I don't want to get attached to the baby because I am afraid he will be taken away, normally they give relatives the first chance, but I couldn't do it now. My son and other daughter are so screwed up, they could not make the right kind of home for him if they would even be willing to. My ex-husband doesn't like interracial relationships, so he will not help. He never did anyway. The only family member is my granddaughter who would be responsible and raise him right, she and I have talked about it, she's struggling to get through college and wanted to get married and have seven children of her own. I told her not to have seven children unless she could make a living by herself in case she has to raise them by herself. I also told her if she has that many children, statistically that before they become adults, at least one is likely to die in an accident, one is likely to have the mental illness gene which runs in both lines, one is likely to have a serious health issue that will require so much that the other children would be slighted. That is a modern reality, not even thinking about the kind of money you have to provide a nice life for that many children without government help. As to my feelings, they are just there. We have no control over what we feel. We only have control over what we choose to do about the way we feel. I was raised in a family where my father was not prejudiced against anybody. I was not allowed to have stamps of Hitler in my stamp collection. I learned the n word from a neighbor girl, called the newspaperboy that, he came to the door and told my father, and I got one of the worst spankings in my life for it. Fast forward to my teenage years in middle class, predominately white America in my part of the country, Yankee territory. There was a ratio of one black child to 30 white children in my elementary school and junior high, slightly more in high school; now the same school is predominately black and Hispanic. When I became a teen, it was seldom talked about. Five of my old girlfriends got together a couple weeks ago. Not one of us would ever have dated outside of our race. It just wasn't done in white middle class America and still isn't if you haven't noticed, at least in my part of the country in intact, well functioning, affluent families, with very few exceptions. As for biracial, they have two strikes against them. They don't know what race they belong to. Will he go back to the South Chicago ghetto housing project environment his father came out of or will he want the simple lower middle class lifestyle in the small home in a nice, relatively safe neighborhood his mother owns a house in and struggling to keep up the payments on? Doctors and therapists tell her to sell it. She could not rent an apartment for what she pays in a house payment and would have to move to a crummy neighborhood or government housing. She has a college degree and a Masters, was a teacher, but could not handle it emotionally, lost her job, cannot get disability from her accident that left her slightly handicapped. She has a brain injury and has had seizures. Will he get involved with gangs and drugs because he feels like he doesn't belong? Will the other children accept him in school (I know things are better now)? Will he get shot in a driveby shooting like the girl two weeks ago by my old childhood church? Will he do well in school with a father who is slightly retarded and probably can't read and write very well? What values will be instilled in him? The father's cousin came here, probably because there is better welfare in my state. The father was living with her and her boyfriend. She stabbed her livein boyfriend over a domestic dispute and is facing jail time. She is out on bail and the boyfriend is back. Back! After the father got out of jail Monday, they went to see them. My grandchild was in that home. My daughter was uncomfortable, he left to drink with his friends and she got mad. She wants to change him. That can't be done. You change yourself. My granddaughter didn't know who it was, but she called me one night freaked out. Grandma, I have to get out of here. She lived in the same apartment building. She had just witnessed the man lying on the sidewalk in a pool of blood, police and ambulances, brought back an old trauma, and I helped her find another apartment, a brick duplex which probably isn't any better. She had three of her tires slashed, her ipod stolen. She and her boyfriend were paying their own way. She is living with her boyfriend because her mother made her life unbearable at home. Grandma bought her new tires and had to pay extra for the tow truck because they had to hoist the car up on a bed so she could get to work and survive. They can't live with me because my value system does not believe in the livein lifestyle, although I'm patient about it because that's the way it is now. Almost everybody does it. The only person who ever comes to see me any more is black, very heavy, lived on welfare all her life, she doesn't know any other way. She raised four children on welfare. Fortunately they all turned out pretty good but one. Most of them treat her terrible, no respect. I wait on her and give her whatever I have cooked because she is always hungry. Sometimes I don't feel well, her visits mean I have to take her home because she doesn't drive. This summer it got so hot and her house is a total heat trap. We went through this last year, she needed a fan. They have a program, but she didn't get one. My daughter had an extra one and gave it to her. This year no fan again. I went down to the hardware store and put on my charge two commercial grade fans, one large one, and one small one, just like I have. She thanked me. I did it because, if I didn't, nobody else was going to and her wiring is so bad, she can't have air conditioners, couldn't afford the utility bills anyway. She could have gotten a free fan from some giveaway program. I decided forget it. She is always "borrowing" little bits of money from me and laundry soap, whatever. It is unspoken, but I know I will never be paid back. I don't expect it; it is not a condition of my odd friendship with her, but it gets annoying sometimes. But I am "privileged". I worked my tail off to raise my children by myself while she watched tv on welfare and gabbed with the neigbors. Her little girl got hurt, and the children called me to take her to the hospital. They finally found her mother. One time I got an urgent call for help. I went over, no social worker am I. Her daughter was working her tail off to support two small children by herself in what I can only call a shack which has since been condemned. Somehow the cupboards fell down in the kitchen and she came home from work to that. There was a big family fight over it. That's what I walked into. The daughter told me, "(my real name)", take the kids down to the police station. What? I didn't want to do that, that is serious, hopefully this would pass. I went in the bedroom where the children were huddled scared and just hugged them. Finally things became diffused, calmed down, and I went home in a state of shock. I hate social workers, won't go there. Next week I will go to my monthly therapy. My therapist is Irish Catholic. She showed me photos of her grandchldren. They are beautiful. All little blondes and one redhead. We have talked about this. We will talk about it some more. After the civil war, the blacks started coming north. One ancestor in Pennsylvania risked everything to help runaway slaves escape to Canada, he could have lost his farm, his means of making a living and jailtime. My great grandfather took in a freed slave as a farm hand. One of the relatives had brought him north after the civil war. They called him N... Joe. When it was time to eat, he took his food and went and sat in the corner. My great-grandfather told him he would eat at the table with the rest of the family. I wonder what would have happened if he would have wanted to marry one of the daughters. I will never know. I feel sorry for my little grandson and what he will face in this cruel world. I can help with a little money, but money is not enough. I can give him love, patience and understanding. He will think grandma is odd because she likes photography and flowers, kids today like, you know what kids like today, things. The right tennis shoes. Love is sometimes not enough. There is one aspect of this I must skirt around. Early on, the a word came up. My daughter was seriously tempted. I told her the child was innocent and I could not condone nor be a party to that, even knowing what it was likely to be like if allowed to be born. I risk everything on my faith and value system. Do what you think is right, and even if it turns out bad, you did the best you knew. And do not beat yourself up because of what other people think of you or your flaws that are difficult to overcome. I woke up crying this morning. Three years ago I was crying every morning, sometimes all day. I'm tired and emotionally exhausted. I can't respond like I should to the other posts, but appreciate the encouragement and thoughts expressed. One thing I have learned in life. People critize others for feelings and being the way they are for things they would never do themselves. My therapist would have never dated a black person. I will ask her next Tuesday. I will ask her how she would feel if it was her daughter instead of mine. Do I dare post this? Yes, I will post it and take the consequences whatever they be. Maybe I'll get kicked off the forum for it. This is an inflammatory issue.

I know, right? I felt like I had to have this rose because it’s named for “our” Jeri. I’m doubley glad that it’s such a beautiful rose! I can’t wait to see those rich yellow colors on mine, Jeri. I was amazed at how fragrant these first two blooms are, especially with how hot and dry it is. I have a feeling I’m really going to enjoy having Jeri with me every day. She’s only going to get better with age, just like her namesake :). Lisa

Hello there, Sharon! Yes, I understand what you mean. The room’s primary purpose needs to be a Baby’s Room. The twin bed will be for nights that hubby and I may have to lay in the room with baby, etc. Small office space: little desk and chair for occasional computer business use. I’m looking to make it all flow where everything will coordinate and flow with baby’s theme and or decor. Thank you!