Ima, I wish i had a magic cure, but the only one I've been able to find is time. I know exactly the anger and helplessness you feel as I carried it for YEARS. It actually made me psycially sick twice, and caused me to think about divorce not because of any issues within my home, but because of the person I saw myself becoming under all that anger. It was with me all the time, and it started to spill over into my relationships with my DH and the kids. I spent so much time thinking "How can she do this? How can she behave this way? How can she not see what she is doing? Why doesn't she care?" I tried to help her see the damage she was doing to her relationship with her daughter to no avail. I really was holding on to the end of my rope.

Suddenly, a change. I noticed it SD effected less then it did me. I had been so wrapped in my own anger toward BM's actions that I missed the fact SD had gotten over it (to a point.) I think she reached a maturity level where she was able to accept her mom for who she was and the *limitations* their relationship had and just deal with it. She had quit crying and started saying "her loss" while I was still steaming that mom hadn't showed for a dance recital AGAIN. Since my anger was truly at the fact she was hurting her daughter I realized I didn't need to carry it any more. Not to say SD wasn't hurt or disappointed, but it was to a point that she shrugged it off. I still get annoyed when she pulls crap, but I can usually have a glass of wine and wash the frustration away. :-)

I think a lot changed when BM remarried and had another baby. It really showed SD her true colors, sadly, and was likely when the big change happened.

All I can say is be there for SD, be her constant and dependable ally. She will need that in the coming years as she reaches her 'point.' Though it's sad, it gives me a happy warmth when SD tells me "I'm so happy I have you. I can't talk to my mom like I can talk to you. All my friends think it's weird that I talk to my 'mom' about everything but I don't know what I would do if I couldn't."

It's moments like those that make all the angry days worthwhile. Yours will come soon, Ima. Hang in there.

Oh god do I ever know how a ding dong bio parent can turn everyones life upside down. Ima I think you have commented on some of my threads that I have posted on my girls fabulous mother. (Sarcasm)

It drains you. I get so tired, emotionally and physically, with the whole situation. I get sick of the girls being jossled around and put in sketchy situations because their mother (of ALL people) can't do whats right for her own children.

I have lost MORE sleep, shed MORE tears and had MORE fights with hubby over the shannanigans this woman pulls. It's not his fault that she's a nut but it's like if I don't pour it out on someone I'll implode.

I really hope things get better for you. All you can do is love your daughter and take it day by day. Hope you get to feeling better.

My ss goes back and forth, but my husband has physical custody and the mother gets visitation. She and her husband are always pulling stunts- in Feb, she called DFS, she talks about child support with him, they degrades my marriage with his father, they call his father names and are continually telling him they are going to sue us. They even called my work to try and get me in trouble. He will have good times with them and we encourage that, but he often comes back upset. He was with his mom for 10 days over spring break and we had to deprogram him when he came home. He had a counseling session with his sisters the same day he came home to us and they told him they did not know who he was because of the things he was saying about our house and me. He was back to normal within a couple of days.

By the way, his two older sisters don't have any contact with their mother. There is a custody fight with them right now. They were ordered to have counseling with their mother, but the counselor suspended the sessions after the mom yelled at her girls and stormed out of a session.

I don't know if there is anything that can really be done other than to try and provide a safe environment so the children are safe to vent feelings without fear of getting in trouble. We are always telling him that it is ok to have the feelings he is having as long as his behavior is appropriate. We try hard not to say negative things about his mother even when she has pulled one of her stunts. Talk about a difficult, not always successful, task. If he wants to say things, I just say that his mother loves him very much, but may not be making the best choices right now. I will often encourage him to talk to her about his feelings. I think he does sometimes, but other times, he is scared of her response. In January she told him that he should enjoy their time together because she was planning on committing suicide and she had tried once already.

Like doodleboo said "I have lost MORE sleep, shed MORE tears and had MORE fights with hubby over the shannanigans this woman pulls. It's not his fault that she's a nut but it's like if I don't pour it out on someone I'll implode."

I read a few threads about step children who put the pieces together when they are older. In our case, we are trying to be supportive of my ss including his interaction with his mother. I have no doubt there will be a day when my ss gets it and his mother will be the one to lose out if she continues with her behavior. I truly hope she will have a light bulb goes off and change her behavior for the sake of her children, but if she doesn't, she may lose some out on more of the wonderful experiences with her son.

Oh, if you like to bake, make bread and knead the dough by hand. It helps to work out the frustration. I'm not much of a housekeeper, but I find I am a cleaning machine when I am upset. There are times when I think - my home has never been this clean before :)

IMA ... :) I have been where you are... there are days I am still right back there ... but as I have said recently I have it better than most because if she pisses me off with the kids I get her on the phone and tell her ... and I hold nothing back ... this started about 6 months ago ... I do not have a secret formula or an aha moment when I definately realized things had changed but I had basically given up on her ever doing right by her kids ... she called me whining about my hubby not giving her "her way" and I sailed into with some spiel about doing right by her kids and if she didn't want to do right by them to take me out of the equation ...when it comes to the children.... that means pick up drop offs I will not be available, you can drive them back and forth to therapy so they can deal with their feelings about you I will not. You will have to work it out with him how to do all that stuff... I even told her if it weren't for the kids she is not a person I would ever even talk to I would have dropped her from my life a long time ago.

Do you have an upcoming court date? Is that why you are stressing? I would get stressed with upcoming court dates thinking she is going to "get away" with it again.... I would stress over what changes would be made etc... and even though there was nothing I could do I would worry about what is going to happen. Always waiting for the bad.

It did no good b*(&*ing at/to hubby he would just shrug his shoulders didn't know how to deal with her either explains why he divorced her... :)... She used visitation to degrade me and hubby, she would make her children worry for her ... they saw they same counselor for years who was too afraid to give the children ammo against mom. she would just give the kids presents and candy.

My key phrases for my SC:

Your mom is an adult and sometimes adults make stupid choices.

Your mom is an adult and can take care of herself she doesn't need you to worry about her.

I don't know why, ask your mom when you talk to her ... or write it down in "your book" so when you do talk to her you can remember to ask her.

Your mom is really angry right now and sometimes angry people say and do dumb things.

My feelings were ... she going to talk sh!@ about me anyhow to the kids she might as well get first hand knowledge... no middle man I took hubby out of the equation... he wouldn't do it spent 10+ years giving her "her way" didn't know how to stand up to her so I did it.... she could whine cry like one of her kids to get her way ... I stood my ground and things changed for me I felt empowered she may not do right by her kids but I will make sure she knows how I feel about it it may not do any good but atleast I said what I had to say to the person that needed to hear it .... even if she didn't change atleast I got it off my mind....

I spent many nights physically ill because of her ... after reading it many times and saying it over and over ... in my head and sometimes out loud ... again not sure who writes it but either sweeby or sylvia have a little ditty about "free rent in your head" the more I thought about her the more power I gave her ... take that power away from her ... try to say to yourself and her if it makes you feel better....

The only one you are hurting is your child ... I can deal with my feelings.... but your daughter will be in therapy the rest of her life dealing with her feelings about YOU...

This place was great therapy for me I could rant and rave and get it off my chest with out driving myself and everyone around me nutz....

Do not defend your feelings to whack jobs your feelings are your own ... own them and let them out before you drive yourself nutz over some dingbat who can't see what she is missing ... enjoy and live your life the way you would whether or not she is in the picture ... assume she is not going to do right by her kids and do what you think it is right!!! to bad if she doesn't like it ... then let her step up and do it or step off.

Whats she going to do if you stand up for yourself??

Not see her kid???

Talk sh!$ about you and hubby when she does see her?

Disappoint her kid to get back at you and hubby?

Not show up when she is supposed to?

OH wait she does all that NOW so what have you got to lose ...besides your mind ?

In my opinion she is showing the BF what a great "mom" she is to his kids because she knows she screwed up with her own ... and its not her fault its her mom's fault and its your hubby's fault she isn't with her kids "she's too wonderful to his kids" not to be a good mom to hers so it must be someone elses fault, she can't be with her kids.

We had the same issue with babysitters she would pick the kids up at 5 and by 6 pm they would be with a babysitter till 2 am ... hubby called her up and told her if you are not going to be with them then leave them home(she didn't care) ... after she had to pay support she couldn't afford to go out anymore.

SO GET SUPPORT!!!

Thanks everyone,

It makes me feel selfish for feeling like I do. Before, I was happy go lucky... always smiling, never a bad day. When someone else was in a bad mood, I cheered them up. I loved life.... (a few years ago, I nearly died and when I recovered, decided life's too short to be unhappy and sweat the small stuff that most people let irritate them daily.) Then I realized as I was driving the other day, that since all of this has been going on (seven months), I've gained some weight (I'm a stress eater) and it's changing how I feel about myself, which is affecting my relationship with hubby, etc. (I've gone from size 8-10, now 12) I no longer smile and sing songs when I'm driving, often I am pissed over something she says or does. I dread her calls on Thursday or Friday and on Fridays, every time my DH calls me, I get anxiety that she's called him and I get that 'now what?' feeling. I just hate feeling this way!

And I was reading the thread on jealousy. Perhaps I am jealous that:
1) She can abandon her kids and spend as much time as she wants, alone with her BF. (or choosing to spend time with his kids instead of her own) DH & I are lucky if we get any alone time where we are relaxed. (we are usually working on homework or entertaining SD until she goes to bed)

2) She gets to go out while we are being conservative with money. Besides an increase in groceries & utilities, I spend a few hundred dollars a month directly on SD. Then BM left a message telling DH to STOP sending her medical bills, she's NOT paying them. She says she pays for those things when SD is with her... he has to pay when SD is with him. (that was the agreement when it was 50/50 shared, but now she only has her on weekends. The order since August is that they split all costs 50/50 but she doesn't think she has to)

3) I'm probably a little jealous that while I stress out over her and her daughter and gain weight, she's going out dancing, riding ATV's, coaching sports and in a month if not sooner, she'll be out on the water in her bikini.

4) Besides the fact that she has the money to do those things (not from working, from the child support she gets for the kid that doesn't live with her) and we aren't going to waste money like that because we are being responsible and saving all we can (and paying off debt), she also has the time to do them. I don't because I'm doing HER job.

I was even going to put SD in little league but didn't because she's with her mom on weekends and the order says we can't schedule anything on the other parent's time. So, while BM's BF's kids get to play ball, SD can't. SD wants to go to catechism, but BM said NO. One of the classes is also on Sunday and she's with BM on Sunday mornings. So, I know a lot of my anger & resentment are from the little jealousies in that she does whatever she wants, regardless of how it affects ANYONE else, not just SD or me. Her actions affect her other daughter, her mom's life, my kids, her boyfriends kids, the BF's ex wife, and I'm probably leaving someone out. oh yeah, the first husband that is still paying her support for the kid that she doesn't have living with her.

It terrifies me to think this could go on for YEARS!! She might be a better mom when this relationship falls apart, but even when she's single, she is still out looking for a man, but at least she was seeing her kids... oh, who am I kidding? she was leaving them with her mom most of the time. But, back then it didn't upset SD like it does now. It would be wonderful to take myself out of the equation but with her being three hours away and not giving a damn about her daughter's counseling (she says it's our choice to take her to counseling, she doesn't really need it) or anything else, it would all fall on DH to handle those things and since he works almost an hour away, he isn't able to leave work for every little thing. I have stood up to her and refused to wait around for her and change the pick up times. She retaliated on Sunday by not being home when we got there. When DH called her, she tells him 'oh, I'll be there in a few minutes. We had to go drop off BF's kids.' and she kept us waiting another fifteen minutes. Then when she got there, she looked like she was waiting for us to start crap with her. Instead, SD got in the car and we drove off. She WANTS us to start something with her because she turns it around to look like she's the victim and WE are attacking her. I don't know if her BF is dumb enough to believe it, but then again, if he can't see what she's doing to her own kids all this time, he can't be too bright. He seems like a nice guy but his wife says that since BM's been around, he's also done things that are out of character for him, like leaving his kids to go out on his weekends. The one time I verbally said anything to her, I was defending myself against her accusation that I was 'psychologically abusing' SD with peanut butter and oatmeal, and I told her that I am the one doing all the things for her daughter that SHE should be doing and if she thinks I'm abusing her daughter, she should have called authorities and not just bring it up when DH won't let her do whatever she wants (picking up SD from school early on Fridays). Then, she turned it around that I attacked her in her home and that she didn't want me anywhere on her property because she's afraid of me. Of course, SD sees her mom as the victim too, so she was mad at me. (doesn't matter that BM started it and I didn't say a negative thing about her, other than telling her she isn't doing her job as a mom) So, it probably would do no good to call her when she does this crap. She denies denies denies. She's in denial that her daughter is suffering, even though the counselor and DH have told her that it's because she moved. She would probably call the police and say I'm harassing her or threatening her since she is good at being a victim. It's not worth having to defend myself.

She reads my myspace (blog) and goes to my reunion/classmates profile all the time (reunion.com sends me notices every time she reads it) and I have written a few blogs about my feelings on situations involving SD, but not using names. (that was my main outlet before I found this site) She'd know I'm referring to her and of course, she can't say anything about it, her name isn't there and she may not want us to know she's reading it, but she certainly got worse when I vented about her. I stopped writing about it when I found this site, and it does help to write here, although I felt somewhat better when I knew she read it. I know it's wrong for me to feel that way and that's why it's better to vent here. I know that her reading it, isn't going to make the situation better, only worse.

As for her daughter figuring it out on her own, she knows. She is still hanging onto hope though. She says she celebrated her birthday over there this weekend at BF's parents house. She said her mom couldn't make it because they had to go out. she knows her mom better than I do. Even better than DH ever did. She's gotten to the point that I think she knows BM will disappoint her and no matter how much she knows, it still hurts. As much as it breaks my heart to see her cry, it would be worse to not see her cry. I am not an emotional person because through all of the hurt I've had in my life, I've built up barriers to protect myself. What that has done is makes it harder for me to be in an emotional relationship. I'd hate for her to put up those same barriers that protect us from being hurt. But they also prevent us from accepting love because we don't trust anymore.

and cawfe, DH is going for support. We don't have a court date and when we do get one, I think I will feel more relief than stress. My stress comes from never knowing from one day to the next what BM will do. She blocked DH from sending her email, so now he has to call her or write a letter & send it regular mail. A lot of the things that were stressing me out, like Friday pick ups (the phone calls or emails used to begin on Wed or Thurs.) well, DH told her no more changes and this last Friday, she didn't call and I'm guessing she got her on time since we heard nothing. The problem is that I've had to deal with it so much, that I get stressed out for two days in anticipation of a problem or change, and it's for NOTHING. I'm glad she didn't call, but I've been conditioned for seven months to feel this way and I can't seem to shut it off, now that she might have finally decided to do what she is supposed to. Of course, her history is that she may do it for a week or two, then the calls & changes begin again. I live two minutes from the school, DH is an hour away at work, so when she calls and says she can't be there, I am the one right there. Even if I'm working, I'm usually not too far away. I can't just leave SD sit at the school... so BM gets her way. She knows WE won't leave SD.

I'm not too worried that BM will take him back to court. The last time she threatened it, he wrote her an email and told her to go ahead and file, he said he's sure the Judge would LOVE to hear what happened to her 'plan'. (She had told the court that her plan was that she lived with her mom and her mom supported her & the kids for seven years while she went to school to be a nurse. Once she became a nurse, her mom was going to retire and she would work & support her mom. Three weeks later, she left her mom and her mom is still raising & supporting the older girl.)

Any chance you could buy a pair of brass balls for hubby on EBAY.... when she can't make it to get her child even though he knows you will go get her ... he needs to tell her ... well IMA is out of town/ unavailable/whatever... (My hubby even said to his ex ... she is my wife not yours, when she questioned why I couldn't get the kids...)make other arrangements and since I am an hour away I guess CPS will be picking up daughter and if you absolutely cannot make it its on you to call your daughter and tell her WHY...

I know its so frustrating you just wanna grad them by the shoulders and say wake up bi#$%... look what you are doing to YOUR kid(s).

she goes to your reunion site and your blog? it is like she has no life. she has two kids and yet she finds time to read your reunion website, oh yes i forgot, it is because she does not take care of her kids.

iammommy your DH can send her emails using different email addresses, so she cannot predict where it is coming from. he should open couple of webbased emails and send from there, if she blocks it he can open a new one. i know it is a pain and a lot of work, but it might be easier than calling. plus he can show a proof that he sent it and di not come back. ...which means it got where it is supposed to get...to her inbox...

DH does tell her I'm not available on Fridays. He told her that since I have SD all week, I do local work and on Fridays, I do jobs that are further away (in other counties) so I never know where I'll be because my work is very unpredictable. The last time she pulled that, we stuck to NOBODY IS HERE TO GET HER. She suggested letting SD ride the bus, which would give her an hour more to get here. Then she called and said that she'd need another half an hour and he told her that she can't leave SD locked out of the house for half an hour or more, as nobody is home and the house is locked. SD doesn't have a key & if something happened to BM on the way, SD would be home alone, he said no. She said that she wasn't going to get her that weekend then, and didn't. DH ended up calling me and I came home to meet SD's bus and couldn't work the rest of the day & weekend. (It also happened to be her BF's birthday, so maybe she really didn't want to come get her daughter, who knows?)

He's made it clear that we are not changing anything for her anymore. But, if she outright cancels, I have to drop what I'm doing to go get SD. We are documenting all this and if she tries to go back to court (which we doubt but she has threatened), we may ask the court to impose a penalty on her for canceling, like $10 an hour for being late and $150 for a missed weekend. and removing where she can call if she's going to be late because she abuses that.

The reason she wasn't home when we got there on Sunday is that I have told her that if she is late, I'm going to go do whatever I need to do and she can wait for me to get done. Well, the only difference is that we were almost ten minutes early on Sunday and she still made us wait for fifteen minutes after the time she was supposed to be there. So we waited almost 25 minutes. DH was pissed but we agreed that we are not going to give her any satisfaction that she wants. She wants conflict and drama. We want peace.

I can relate almost everything. I am also an emotional eater and have gone from a size 10-12 to a size 14-16. I am now trying to eat less and move more although a recent surgery has slowed down the moving part. It's hard to find time to take care of myself when we are the ones taking SS to all of his activities and BM only agrees to take him a boy scout meeting once a month. We are lucky if she takes him to his counseling session. BM is constantly shopping- with what money, I don't know. She has a custody case pending with her two older daughters and their father, she has three garnishments and her husband doesn't work. She recently told my husband she has a second job and is asking him to do things...I guess he is suppose to feel sorry for her. We are following the Dave Ramsey principles for getting out of debt so we are very conservative and not out shopping and doing whatever because money came in a check that week. When I drop a few pounds, I'm determined to buy a new outfit :)

I honestly believe my SS's mom has a Borderline Personality Disorder. She is always the victim. She does no wrong, it's always someone else. She takes no responsibility and seems to thrive on the hurricane whirl winds she produces. She should have a clue since she has lost contact with her parents, two older daughters, and most of her friends don't want to be around anymore. What we have done to deal with this is to document. Document everything, all interactions. There is also something helpful in writing down the events after contact with her. In addition, it was the best weapon we had when we went to court. Keeping a log as events happen. It is what helped my husband in his custody battle. That and recorded conversations. In our area- we can record conversations as long as one person knows it is being recorded. I would check the laws in your area. If it is legal, I would advise an ear piece that can be connected to a small recorder. We bought ours at Radio Shack.

Due to recent events, we have started keeping another log. I took my SS to the dentist last week. He has a crater in an adult molar which is close to the nerve. He may need a root canal. I blame both my husband and the BM for this because he had not been to the dentist in 2 1/2 years and he is cavity prone. I think they were both irresponsible and he is paying for it physically, my husband and I am paying financially. If there is a root canal, it will cost $1000.00. BM is already saying she is not going to pay her half. There was also talk of him having braces in the future. She is already saying she won't pay anything because it is cosmetic. Of course, we have time to save for the braces. Sorry, that was a rant :) If she doesn't pay, we are planning on keeping our records in order and take her to court once we reach a reasonable amount. Our lawyer said we can do this without representation and she would walk us through it when the time comes. When she still doesn't pay, we will garnish wages.

For my own sanity, by the advise of the lawyer and the counselor, my husband handles all of the interactions with his ex. I only get involved if absolutely necessary. Of course that doesn't stop her from calling my work and threaten to sue them and me. I sometimes have to push him to make the call or send the e-mail, but he will do it. If she limits the means of communication, document that and do what you can.

I used to worry more than I do now. I try to not put much energy into what she is saying or doing. When my SS tells me things about what she says, I try to laugh it off. Saying that's funny or I wonder why she would say that because she doesn't know me, then I try to move on in the conversation. I don't want to give her any power. It's what she wants. She's unhappy so she wants everyone else to be unhappy.

As far as the activities, we have the same stipulation. He is not to be entered into an activity on her time. First, she won't help pay; second, she is not likely to take him because she will think it is something for BF not thinking her son may be the person to consider. We will sign him up for recreational activities and SS is told that he just won't be able to go to the activities while his is with his mother. He does understand. He also hopes and has good days and bad days. Lately he becomes angry for no apparent reason and has been starting to show signs of disrespect for me. We are taking actions to nip that one while keeping in mind he has a lot going on in his head.

It is scary thinking this woman will always be around in one fashion or another. We have years of frustration and dealings with her, but we are trying to stay strong and not allowing her to take control of our lives. We finish something with her and try to move on. We are mostly successful although there have been times when things linger more than they should and emotions are more raw.

I hope you find periods of rest when living this crazy blended family life. Although there is a lot of emotional turmoil, I still feel more alive with the love for my husband and his son. Like you, I am just trying to get a piece of myself back. But the only person who can to that for me, is me. I've started attending a church event every other Wednesday which includes dinner and going into small groups. I'm in their parenting class now. Find things to do for yourself to help forget about the craziness for short periods of time. It does wonders for attitude and self esteem.

Sorry this is so long, it just came pouring out

Hmmmm....this sounds pretty familiar to what my DH's son went through although his son has sided with the BM and has twisted the knife in my husand's back every chance he has and is moving to be with the BM after this school year. I'm not certain why any child would want to live with someone who doesn't pay attention to them.

Sorry IMA ... you got stuck with an inconsiderate a$$ ... atleast my SC could guilt trip their mother into being where she needed to be ... guess it helped that I would dial the number and hand them the phone "I don't know why she isn't here call her and ask her"...

Hubby also told her a few times do what the CO says or he would put her in contempt ... she has been in contempt a few times for not complying with the CO ... in Mass .. contempt hearing are heard with in 30 days :)....

I know it sucks but I would just assume she isn't coming on fridays ... if you need to can you arrange an afterschool program on fridays?

Imagine how their children feel if we feel helpless when it comes to them doing right by their kids ... their kids mustn't even know how to feel anymore.... useless women.

My SD says she wants to live with her mom too. She just turned 9 so she isn't old enough to decide, but in talking to her, she has said she wants to live there because she feels like BF is taking her mom away from her. She doesn't understand that her mom is choosing the boyfriend over her and she thinks if she is there all the time, the boyfriend can't take her mom. BM says she wants SD to live with her but you'd think if she wanted her kids there, she'd have the older one that she has full custody of. You might also think she'd go to court to try and take her if she really wanted her, DH isn't going to just give her up when he sees some of the things that are going on over there just on weekends.

The reason he won't give her custody....

BM wouldn't make her go to school everyday. When they had week on/week off, all the days SD was late, absent or picked up early were on BM's weeks. This isn't something she just started doing this year. And last school year, BM would do some of her homework for her and every time she had a project, she'd refuse to work on it with her. She told DH to have me do it. SD doesn't have to brush her teeth at BM's, once she came back and said she hadn't brushed in four days. She doesn't have to bathe daily or comb her hair over there either. (ok, bathing daily isn't necessary but when her hair is matted when she comes back, that's too much)

That was just in case someone out there thinks he's just a dad that doesn't want to pay child support. The child support was $286 a month (for 50/50 custody) and right now, we spend at least $300-400 a month on clothes, shoes, doctor, medicine, counselor, girl scouts, karate, school related stuff, etc. and an additional $50 a week in gas to go pick her up at her mom's. (one of the reason mom has canceled is she didn't have money for gas. She wanted DH to bring SD to her... she doesn't care whether he has the money or not)

"And last school year, BM would do some of her homework for her and every time she had a project, she'd refuse to work on it with her."

I don't understand this sentence. Aren't you complaining in the same sentence that she does her daughter's homework and that she refuses to do her daughter's homework?

Schools should not be assigning projects that kids can not possibly do by themselves. They end up being graded on the parent's participation rather than what the child does. One of the schools in our area for years assigned 2nd graders write a research paper on specific obscure lighthouses. Do you know how many books there are on specific lighthouses written at the second grade level? Not very many.

Yep, she would do some of her work for her. SD was in Tae Kwon Do with her mom and the instructor asked for progress reports from the school. When SD didn't understand things like math concepts, instead of taking time to help her understand it (which I had to do this year to get her caught up), she would just do it for her. She also did some of her spelling and grammar, but mostly math. But then the school assigned a project. They read a story on how many years ago, kids didn't have Toys R Us and they would make their own toys. She was to make a toy like her grandparents or great grandparents might have made when they were kids. BM didn't want to help her with it, so I ended up helping her. When SD took it to her house, she threw it away, even though SD liked it. She also had to do a 'can story' project. That's where she has to get a coffee can and put several objects in it that tell a story. Then she sits in front of the class and tells her story, taking out props from the can. They weren't research type projects. She did have one research project where she was to read about dolphins and write a page about it and draw her own picture of a dolphin. When it came to doing these projects that took an evening, she drop it on DH or me. When she needed to finish her nightly homework to get to tae kwon do class, she'd hurry up and do the work for SD. And if that isn't bad enough, a lot of the time she got the answers wrong... that's how it got caught. When DH asked SD about it, she told him mommy did it. He started noticing that mommy's handwriting is on a lot of the papers.

I agree that kids under fourth grade can't really do much research on their own. I wouldn't do a project for my kids and I think it's terrible when parents do (for kids any age) because the kid isn't really learning. The parent is supposed to answer questions and give guidance so the child is learning how to accomplish it on their own.

Instead of doing her routine busywork homework or her projects, I think it would have been better for her to complain to the school if the quantity of homework was interfering with the girl's real life. I think sharing something like Tae Kwon Do with her mother is great, and it is wrong to let a page of addition facts get in the way of that. If she didn't understand the math concepts, it is the school that is failing her, not the other way around. If the girl is capable of understanding the concepts, then the school should be making sure she does, rather than sending home homework she doesn't know how to do.

The following is a rant. Neither you nor the girl's mother is responsible for the way the school system is run. The school system has no right to determine what, when, and how subjects are taught, and then turn around and expect parents to actually teach the kids. Maybe my kid isn't ready to learn two digit addition in kindergarten. Maybe I don't believe memorization of multiplication tables is an appropriate task. Maybe neither I nor my child want to make up some stupid story involving objects that fit in a coffee can. Maybe we would rather be studying astronomy. Or Tae Kwon Do. If school systems insist that they somehow know the One Right Way, they can d*** well teach the course content during the school day, and not interfere with my child's family time.

theotherside,

Feel free to start a thread on education. This one isn't about school or projects. That was only mentioned as the reason DH won't just give up custody of SD. It really has NOTHING to do with this thread. (and if the school is failing the children, the parents should be on top of it. When a parent does the work because the child doesn't understand, the child is being failed by both the school system AND the parent)

I never worked on any homework or school projects with DD. I never helped on anything homework related. Not once. Maybe it makes me a bad parent but I trully never did it. Not to say that DD is a genius and always completed all of her work 100% of the time, of course not. I just never thought that parents have to help on homework. Same with projects. These are her project assigned by school not parents' projects. If she is not capable working on these projects alone it means that either projects are too difficult for her and maybe she needs some type of accommodations, maybe these projects have to be shortened or some other way adjusted for her abilities. And if she doesn't complete her work then she gets her low grade accordingly. But I do not believe in parents helping wiht homework. Hope it doesn't mean that i had to lose custody...This Bm in question is crazy but her not helping with projects is understandable.

Its not a matter of not helping ... she was doing the work so she could do twae kwan do ... rather than sitting with her kid to help her understand she just did it for her....

And IMA's point was not that she didn't help her with homework its just one more example of mom putting her own needs first before her daughter.... mom was in twae kwan do too and knew the instructor checked grades/work to participate in program so rather than let her daughter do the work and learn it she did it for her and what did daughter learn????

"busy work" reinforces what the child learned that day and it gives the teachers a starting point for individual help if 9 out of 20 get it then the teacher can go over it again to 20 out of 20 get it ....

Its not a conspiracy teachers don't give out "busywork" to interfer with family time they do it to help evaluate each child on an individual basis ... most can do it in class but with homework it shows what they retained and what they still need help with ....and don't give me that bull about not needing to do "real work" till high school if they don't learn it before high school how will they get into those "prestigious colleges" I hear so many refer to.

Sorry IMA didn't mean to make it an education post.

If homework interfers with family time ... doesn't practicing for all those sports, music and team competitions interfer as well ... I am guessing children should not go to school or do any activities they all interfer with family time.

didn't she go to twae kwan do with her daughter? i was under the impression it was their joined activity which is the greatest bonding experience. probably way better that doing school projects. i tried to make my daughter to do yoga and jazzersize with me, i wasn't able to convince her. She always rode horses which you cannot pay me enough to do.

of course kids have to do homework and, no, it does not interfer with family time. i just don't think that not doing projects with your kids make you a bad parent. so because i didn't do school projects with DD, her dad had to go and argue to take custody away. this makes no sense. my parents never did school work with me and i grew up all right, did fine in school and don't consider them bad parents.

and btw so many parents don't have enough education to help children with school work. usually if kids struggle with school work their parents struggle as well. so why would parents be helpful if they themselves don't know the concepts.

anyways understanding what makes one good or bad parent is very subjective. some people consider that if parents let kids go overnight to grandparents, it makes kids life unstable (see other threads). i absolutelly do not think so. same way not doing or doing school work with kids doesn't mean much for me. certainly nothing to do with getting custody.

The problem with grandparents seeing kids is when they spend more time with the kids than the Custodial Parent.

I know its shocking ... but some parents will pawn of their kids on anyone as long as its not them.

I think it matters when your children struggle in school. Take my oldset ss for example, you have to help him with homework. I have to look it over, break it down into sections and usually (especially with writing assignments and math) you have to answer 100 and 2 questions. And yes, I agree that they should probably be doing more in school but the fact is... it is much more important to me to that I help him and make sure he understands what he is doing rather than just let him fall behind more and more each day. Some kids, never really need help with school. I was one of those kids... the only time I can really remember my parents helping me with any school work or project was on my first science project when I had to make a big back board ... my dad helped me measure everything out to make sure I would fit all of the headings and information on the board correctly.

I think as a parent you have to evaluate each child's need and conduct yourself accordingly. For SS there was no football unless homework got done... correctly. It was a great motivating factor for him. For all of our kids academics comes before extra curricular activities... In Ima's case extra curricular activities were being placed above and beyond the child's education to the point of her falling behind and I think, that is a problem. We currently have the same issue with our BM ... she does not help the kids with homework and does not check to make sure homework is done correctly... Now we are dealing with poor grades and teachers continous comments of homework not being completed.

of course if kids are dumped on somebody else 100% of the time or are never helped with anything it is wrong. I am having an issue though with someone else determining who is the good parent or who is not and which life is stable or which is not. like not helping on projects determines who should not have custody. or because kids go to grandma's his life is unstable. who is to determine?

BM went to tae kwon do for a year without SD before she finally agreed to let SD go with her, IF DH paid for it. BM was into tae kwon do because she was trying to date a few of the guys there. She was screwing at least one of them when we were going through the custody battle. DH was paying for her classes but on a night where SD was supposed to be in class, BM left both of her girls home alone and went to the tae kwon do studio alone. She chain smoked all the way there and hung out in the parking lot, talking to the guys before and after the class. After class, she hung out for an hour sitting around talking with the guys. (did I mention on a previous thread that BM is into partner swapping & group activities? She even had an ad on craigs list.) So, I don't know if she was arranging a play date with her guy friends or if they were 'just friends' or what her motives were, but I do know she left the kids alone to go to tae kwon do. So, her motivation in having her daughters in tae kwon do probably didn't have a whole lot to do with quality wholesome mother/daughter bonding time. She was there to get laid. The kids were there for the ride and if they didn't get good grades, the rules were, they couldn't go. (and the kids classes were an hour before BM's class, so that hour she sat in the parking lot chatting was when her girls were supposed to be in their class.) How do I know this, DH hired a private investigator because BM denied that she EVER left his daughter home alone with her sister. The ONE time an investigator was watching her for two hours and low and behold, she leaves them alone. Either he got REALLY lucky or she did it so often that it was bound to be caught. Doesn't matter, that isn't the only reason he wouldn't give her custody back. It was only one reason in a bag of many.

The 'busywork' takes her ten minutes to complete at our house. She brings it to me, I check it. If there are one or two wrong, I have her check her answers. If they are all wrong, then we talk. I know she has a problem listening and paying attention in class, she's been written up for it a few times. Therefore, I can tell when she doesn't understand her 'busywork' that either she doesn't get the concept or she wasn't paying attention. It's usually that she doesn't pay attention in class because once I explain it once, she gets it. Sometimes, I have to explain it in a way that she gets and I do that so the teacher doesn't move on to something else she doesn't get. I'm sure I could call the school and insist that the rest of the class that gets it should have to review it until SD gets it, but then perhaps the parents of those kids would think my kid is holding them up. We aren't talking Algebra, this is simple math... addition, subtraction, multiplication & division. She just couldn't get how to carry a number. She'd carry it but then not add it in so she was always one number off. (and working on her homework, in my opinion, can be quality one on one time with her parent) My parents never did school work with me either, if I didn't get it, I fell behind, worked harder to get it or failed the class. But, at the same time, my parents NEVER DID MY WORK FOR ME!!!

I'm not a school teacher but I can imagine that if I were, I would want the parent's participating in their children's education and learning. I would think that if the parents want.. no wait, feel that college is REQUIRED, that they would be active participants in helping their children learn and advance in school, not wash their hands of teaching their children once they hit kindergarten and say 'it's all on the school now. The school better not fail my kid.' and if the kid doesn't get it, you call the school and demand they do a better job. Parents teach their kids from day 1 how to hold a bottle, how to feed themselves, how to dress themselves, so why isn't it a parents job to help teach them in school? And at the very least, it's the parent's job to make sure the child is on time and in school every day. Not because of the funding the schools will lose if the child is absent, but because being in school everyday teaches kids about responsibility and it trains them for the rest of their life in the work force. I'm going out on a limb here with this theory, but I believe if you let your kid stay home because they 'feel like it' or every time they say 'I don't feel good' and they might not feel 100% but they aren't sick.... maybe they didn't prepare for a test so they don't feel so good, then they are learning how to make excuses in life. They are the ones that call in sick to work when they just don't feel like working. They are the ones that come in late without calling or maybe don't show up. They haven't learned the importance of good attendance and being on time. That's just my own theory... I don't have statistics to back it up... I think it's COMMON SENSE.

Well, BM doesn't care if SD misses a day here or there if it's convenient for BM's life or SD doesn't feel like it. She doesn't care if she's late or gets picked up early and she doesn't care if SD knows what the teacher is teaching, as long as it's convenient for BM's life. THAT's why DH won't give her custody. If a court disagrees and gives her custody, that's up to a court. DH isn't going to hand it over on a silver platter. There are many other reasons and the school work was just ONE. Not the only one.

In regard to my last paragraph, BM has also never held a job for more than a few months.....

I wonder if it has anything to do with her work ethic..

the same one she's passing onto her daughter.

Ok look at it this way....

Your 9 yr old goes to her dad's house ... dad decides he wants to go out with his new gf so he drops off your daughter at his GF"S parents house who she has only met a time or two even though he hasn't seen your daughter in 3 weeks he "needs" to go out this weekend.... what was the point of taking your daughter? so she could spend time with his gfs parents? then dad decides for the next 3 weeks he doesn't want/can't to see his daughter but she sits on the couch every friday night not making plans for friends sleepovers and thinking she could be in a dance class on friday nights but I am supposed to go to dad's house so I couldn't go to dance but dad doesn't show up any way so I missed out on dad and dance class for what!!! to spend time with my dad's gf's parents?

Just look at it from the kids point of view ...

And to answer your question .... the parents decide whats best for their children .... if they can't agree thats when you take it to court and have a judge or another impartial person decides what is best for the child.

Imamommy, how do you know so much about BM? Just curious. Does SD tell you?

Ima, I'm with you on the education thing. I believe that each child is different and if a child needs help, it is an opportunity to support and give positive attention to the child. Doing work for a child is completely unacceptable when your job as a parent is to help the child learn and grow. That is not just about learning the school work, but about life skills and accountability. I also agree with school attendance. In our case, the step father takes my SS to school on their days. SF sleeps late and is often taking my SS late to school and blames their 18 month old. She was sleeping or he had to get her ready. All he has to do is take SS to school, drop off and come home. He has not worked a day since he came in the picture. Maybe he should set an alarm for an earlier time. Not hard to figure out. There is absolutely no reason my SS should be late. My ss also says he doesn't eat breakfast those mornings because there is no time, they get up so late. The school sent a letter explaining how important attendance is and how his tardies and absences could interfere with his learning. Yet, he is still taking my SS late. BM knows about the tardies, but will call the school with the lame excuses. She told my husband that it was my SS's fault because he should be getting SF up to take him to school. Mind you, SF is verbally abusive and my SS is scared of him. OK, there was some useful info in there, but mostly a rant :)

Cawfe said "The problem with grandparents seeing kids is when they spend more time with the kids than the Custodial Parent.
I know its shocking ... but some parents will pawn of their kids on anyone as long as its not them."

I get upset about that almost every week...
We pick up A__ from GM's house at least two out of three pickups. And we drop him off there most of the time too.
This past weekend, we picked him up from GM's place on Saturday morning, and discovered that he hadn't seen his mom since TUESDAY. When BF talked to her on Sunday, she said that she had Friday night off, but she wanted to see her boyfriend, "because she hadn't seen him all week," so didn't see A__, not even for an hour or two after school. BF dropped A__ off at GM's on Sunday afternoon, even though BM was off work, because BM had to "work early on Monday"
This is not an isolated incident, it's the norm.

I know that this is totally out of my control, but it still makes me upset. A__ wants to see his mom, even just for a little bit, but she ditches him at GMs house, and then she is mad that GM is a crummy caregiver (doesn't make him brush his teeth or do his homework, and doesn't pay attention to him)... OK, I understand that when she's on nights, she can't have A__ with her, but she could go pick him up from school at lunchtime, or see him for a few hours after school before her shift starts or something... Oh, and I've heard her many times say "not today, maybe I'll have time to see you tomorrow. You stay at GM's tonight"

And FD, I don't care if you think that I'm not allowed to judge that as unstable living conditions and crappy parenting. It IS unstable, and it IS crappy parenting and A__ deserves better than that from his mom.

Most of what I found out about BM was found during the custody battle. The investigator only followed her the one time for about four hour. I googled her name and came up with a bunch of dating and partner swapping sites that she had signed up for, including the craigs list. I had also looked at her myspace page where she had posted pictures of herself with several guys, there were messages from some of the guys from tae kwon do and I used to drive SD to her tae kwon do classes on DH's weeks. BM portrayed herself to be PTA president and mother of the year and had a dark secret life DH didn't know about. SD has made some comments but nothing that she thinks will get her mom in trouble. She's very protective of her mom. DH knew she was home alone because SD would call and leave messages on his voice mail that she was home by herself. When DH asked BM about it, she denied it and said SD must have taken the phone into another room but she NEVER leaves them alone. They were 7 & 10 at the time and lived in a high crime area of a major city. BM's vehicle had been broken into six or seven times and there were at least six registered sex offenders living within a mile of her home (according to Megans Law website). We certainly did our homework when we were going through the court case. We spent $13k on lawyer fees and we weren't going to go in there not knowing as much as possible. I also got BM's divorce case from her first husband where he wrote in his declaration (years before BM even met DH) that she is a pathological liar, has a drinking problem (included a picture of her passed out on the sidewalk) and that she left her daughter with him to go screw a guy she was working with. There were declarations from her mom about her mental health problems as a teenager. There were declarations from neighbors that told what went on when her DH was at work. She left her baby (a few months old at the time) with a neighbor because she was drunk and the baby was crying. There was a lot of information that made DH open his eyes. He hadn't seen that before and believed everything she said when they were together. Her first husband also said she had tricked him into the pregnancy by saying she was on the pill. She aborted a baby before that pregnancy because he was going through a divorce and didn't want his first wife to find out. As soon as his divorce was final, she got pregnant again and he married her. Within a year, they were separated because she was screwing her co-worker. So, there was a lot that clicked in DH when he read that because she also told him she was on the pill. Then, when things were cooling between them, she got pregnant. She pressured him to marry her but he ended up breaking up with her when she stole his credit card.

I'm sure that not everything is 100% accurate, as people tend to paint their own perception in divorce papers, but enough of it rang true that it gave us an idea of what kind of person she is and what kinds of things she has a history of... cheating & drinking. She cheated on my DH when they were together... she got drunk at a party with him and asked him if he wanted to have a threesome with a girl there, he said no and thought it was just the alcohol talking. So, with all the info from the divorce papers and info found out by investigation, and things that he hadn't thought much of at the time, it all came together.

Now, She's over at her BF's and playing the 'super mom' role with his kids. She is coaching his kids in sports & bonding with them. Her history is to cheat and leave. Her BF doesn't know her history. I kinda feel sorry for the guy. Especially if she gets pregnant by him. (she told DH she had her tubes tied but I pointed out to him that everything she's told him about everything else has been a lie, so who knows if she can get pregnant or not. It's how she gets guys to stay.. or tries or maybe it's for the child support so she doesn't have to work? who knows?) and another pattern, He's also fresh out of a divorce, just like her first hubby and just like my DH was.

When it's all put together, it's paints a scary picture for DH and me. We are raising a daughter that has modeled her behavior after this woman for eight years. SD came home with a temporary butterfly tattoo on her belly button this week. It looks REAL and trashy. BM thinks it's cute. (BM is also teaching her BF's 6 year old how to bump & grind dance to look sexy) I found that out from BF's ex wife.

and I also did look at my DH's divorce file before I got serious with him... divorce files (well, most court records) are public and I think it's good to do a background on someone you are going to give your heart to. I know it isn't all that romantic to think of but in this world of scam and con artists that take advantage of lonely women, especially with children, it doesn't hurt to see what an ex said or if they have been sued or if they have criminal cases in their past. I once pulled a guys file and saw that his ex said he attacked her when he was drunk. I knew he drank but didn't think it was excessive but as I paid attention more, I saw that he drank way too much... he was a functional drunk that you didn't even notice he had been drinking because he drank from the moment he woke up... he wasn't someone that stumbled around, he 'needed' it to function normally. Then, I could see that even if the assault wasn't accurate, I could see that the drinking problem was. I liked the guy a lot but my mom was an alcoholic and I can't have that in my life. So, I left.

and yes, I think people can change so what is in someone's past is only a record of what happened then. But it can give you a clue as to what red flags to look for in current and future behavior.

I find tatoos trashy at any age. But other people don't. Other people think it is OK. It is subjective I guess.

I don't think that dating history has anything to do with parenting. I know that this BM is crazy but I think knowing that much about her is strange and much of it is not related to parenting.

Of course SD is protective of her mom. Mom is awful but SD still loves her.

Your DH's exGF's BFs exwife is not a very reliable source of information. Exwife is probably jealous so she could say anything. I would not even trust my BF's exwife what she says let alone listening to what her current BF's exwife says.

this is smart of you imamommy to see his divorce papers. I saw my BF's divorce files. I didn't want to, but he wanted me to see. My divorce papers are boring, nobody wants to see those. ha

I see DH's divorce papers just about weekly when we have to qoute something to ensure that BM follows what is supposed to happen as opposed to what she feels like she wants to do that week or day... it is sooo tiresome

My husband's papers were scanned into the computer and we cut and paste portions of the custody agreement into e-mails for BM on a regular basis also. I agree, very tiresome

I used to quote it and highlight it ... now I just tell her do it or don't I don't care your kids are the ones who will suffer I expect nothing of you ... they on the otherhand have high hopes for you.

Hubby and I expect nothing so we never get disappointed :)

There really aren't any 'reliable' sources of information. If you look at my credit report, there are errors that every few months, I try to get them all corrected. There are still errors. Court files are like police reports, what is written are only one person's perception of it or their side. Sometimes, it's the court or police officer's observations but they may not know all the facts. An ex is also going to have their own perception and obviously, when DH was with his ex, he was told things that he later found out were lies that she made up to make herself look good. So, even what he was told first hand from her wasn't 'reliable'. I think people need to gather information and take it with a grain of salt that it's NOT completely accurate but if there is a history or pattern of behavior in it, they should pay attention.

People tend to repeat history if they don't learn from it. My past is a good example of that. I worked very hard to change my poor choices and not date guys that were anything like the guys in my past. My husband is NOTHING like any of the guys I've ever dated. In fact, twenty years ago, I would have thought he was boring and probably not given him the time of day. The kind of guys I was interested in were 'bad boy', sexy and exciting. I've grown and realized that my 'boring' husband is a keeper and the bad boys are losers. BM is still chasing bad boys... she hasn't changed. I might think she has changed if she had her older daughter with her and was doing the 'family' thing with her older daughter and his kids, but she isn't. She is doing what she did with hubby #1 and my DH. She plays 'wholesome mom role' and when that gets boring she wants to party again. She dumps these guys when she realizes they are too 'boring'... like her first husband and my husband. She wants excitement in her life (and I think she'd also like to settle & have the family life but doesn't know how... I think it's her pathology and she may have no control over it. I don't know). It's one of those things that has me shaking my head trying to figure out why she keeps doing the same thing over and over, with the same darn results. The part that bothers me with what she does is that it isn't only her now, it's her older daughter, my step daughter, and now her boyfriends kids that are affected by what she does. She can go do whatever she wants with her life when it's just her, I don't care. But, she's doing these things and playing with other people's lives... it's not right.

I think there are just some things that you are better off not knowing about a person. But it is hard in a situation like this, you obviously need to know somethings but you can't filter the relevant from the irrelevant in a situation like this.

An IT guy at one of my old jobs told me about another employee who had found lots of porn on his computer and it was kind of deviant stuff. Anyway, even though the guy was a good worker, easy to get along with and all -- I just couldn't look at him the same.