I would tear it out, try and sell it so it wouldn't go in a landfill, and have no regrets.

There have been many a recent "find" in my casual search that the realtor calls "gourmet" and "updated", and I look and can only comment to my dh, that this is a kitchen only I could hate and have plans to tear out.

So, that is what I would do. no guilt. and I wouldn't wait either, it would start right away. In fact, I might even give the current homeowner first dibs on buying it back from me.

Before we bought late last year, we had been looking for several years, and one of our key criteria was that the place could not have a new kitchen we hated. We thought it didn't make financial sense to pay a premium for something new and then pay more on top of that to tear it out immediately and replace. It had to be either new and at least acceptable to us, or in need of total update. We finally found one of the latter.

It affected me in my house search. The remodeled kitchens we saw were EXPENSIVE and while I don't mind installing an expensive kitchen, I don't want to pay for someone else's, and then feel guilty about ripping it out.

Doesn't that seem wasteful even if you carefully remove it and sell it off?

Yes, it does seem wasteful, BUT, if I could afford it, and the old cabinets could be reused I would look at the fact that you would be contributing to your local economy by hiring people to do the work, and purchasing new materials!

If the cabinets are in pretty good condition, just bring them to your local "Habitat for Humanity Re-Store" -- someone will love them!!! (and you can claim it as a tax deduction!) Sell the appliances, if they are in working order, on craigslist -- then you have $$$ to use toward your new kitchen!

I wouldn't let the kitchen deter you -- unless the idea of a kitchen renovation (time, energy inconvenience) is your issue.

I'd buy a house with an old worn kitchen before I bought a house with a new tasteless kitchen. I can imagine doing something fun with an old worn kitchen. Also, even if the old kitchen is hideous, I can take comfort in the fact that it will be obvious that I didn't do it. A new kitchen that is hideous will give people the impression that I carefully chose each and every ugly finish.

I lived with a 1970s monstrosity for 10 years before I got around to tearing it out. Not one person thought that I had chosen the dark mottled eurosplash or the swag lamps or the arched cabinets. I took comfort in that.

Depends on the price, of course. I'd have NO qualms about buying a house in the right location with the right bones, but that required me to rip out a new kitchen or bath to make it liveable for me. That is, IF, the price allowed me to put in the kitchen or bath I wanted within a reasonable time.

If the dollars work out right, it becomes a moral question only: Is it harmful to the environment, is it wasteful of resources, is it a social evil to dump this nearly new kitchen in favor of one I simply "Like" better? And to me, the answer would be a resounding no...it's notwasteful at all. Indeed, one could make the argument that it produces a plus for society.

First, the nearly new appliances, cabinets, etc. won't be wasted. They can be donated to green demolitions, sold on craigslist or otherwise disposed of in a way that allows someone else to use them, possibly even a family in need. It would almost certainly mean more energy efficient appliances for them. And second, renovating the kitchen means jobs for people, which is what we need to get the economy growing strongly again, which benefits everyone (though, of course, some benefit more than others.)

For me it would be less the idea of wasting the previous owner's new cabinets and more the idea of making a bad financial investment. The concept of first paying a premium for an "upgraded" kitchen, then paying on top of that to update the kitchen again-- in this real estate market, it's hard to justify that. Whether or not you can technically afford to do this, unless you have enough money that you don't care if you throw a bunch of it out the window, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

You could consider refacing the hateful cabinets.

That gives you an up-to-date look, keeps old cabinets out of the landfill, allows you to keep your counter/floor/wall intact, can be done with only a couple of days where you have workers in the home and all at a lower total-project cost.

I've been stunned to learn how many homes are having kitchens refaced these days - and you can't really tell from looking at them. The rise in popularity for refacing is mostly because people spent a lot of money on expensive granite countertops not that long ago and they don't want to lose the value of those expensive tops.

Here is a link that might be useful: Refacing cabinets: An in-vogue option for the times.

Yes I would buy a house/condo/townhouse if I hated the kitchen. However, I would only do this if the price were right. As I'm still in the searching mode of looking for an investment for myself and a townhouse purchase for my son, well, lets just say I have seen some rather interesting kitchens (in a bad way). What I would like is a really bad kitchen townhouse at a rock bottom price or an older kitchen that's perfectly fine for now at a reasonable price. What I don't want is a cheap cheesy "flip leftover" kitchen in an odd color of wood stain with new but outdated cheap looking tile that some fool thinks he can get top dollar for.

One of the things I am wondering, though is if I actually AM paying the premium for that new kitchen.

I know that the sale price I have on mine reflects very little on the quality of my renovation. It happens to be priced in the ballpark of what a two bedroom condo in my neighborhood in a building with highish condo fees is priced at. If I were to be fully compensated for the fact that my kitchen has a Subzero, Soapstone, and custom cabinets,vs. Kenmore, box store granite and cabinets, the price would be much higher and it wouldn't sell anyway.

I am finding that it doesn't seem to matter in my local market if the kitchen and bath are new or not. Only a property in really poor condition goes for anything less than the norm. Of course there is some variation in price, but not the actual cost of a kitchen by a longshot. This is the conclusion I have come to after looking at dozens of houses privately, dozens at open houses, and literally 1000 online. So I might be paying $500K for a house of x square feet, new ugly kitchen or old ugly kitchen notwithstanding. Still I would feel more "comfortable" somehow with the old one, at the same price.

Still, I think it is a hard question to answer, and there is no correct answer.

Refacing only works if what you've got is worth saving. (I've painted. Same idea.)

My previous kitchen had been refaced in the 80s and they'd done a nice job. I didn't have to gut it right away, but there were cabinets I couldn't stand to use because the original midcentury boxes smelled BAD. My current kitchen has been refaced more recently, and with plastic. But the layout is terrible, the boxes are tired, and...yep. The original midcentury boxes smell BAD and I can't use them all.

I would absolutely buy a home where I knew I'd immediately replace the kitchen *IF* I could afford the house + the cost of renovation + time without the kitchen and if I loved the house otherwise. I would make every effort to salvage anything I could and sell (craigslist, local classifieds) and donate everything. I would feel mild guilt over the waste (there always is a little) but that would be eclipsed by the happiness of having a house that I loved with a kitchen that I loved. If the rest of the house is lovely and the kitchen is the result of an unfortunate/misguided remodel, I personally consider any re-remodeling would be "saving" the house from a fate worse than... well.. probably not death, but worse than being unremodeled. I would not mind "paying for their remodel" assuming to me, the price of the house was worth what I felt like I was getting. If you cannot find another property that you like as much for that price, then it sounds like it's worth it to you.

pal -

If you actually find a house you like, in your price range, in your target area, with your other desired attributes, it's the chupa cabra, baby. The kitchen doesn't matter. Buy the house.

Remember there are certain things you can't change about a house: location, lot and layout (for the most part, obviously). Buy for those things. Allllllll the rest can be fixed how ever you want.

There are always differences in taste about these things, but for someone TKO it is doubly difficult to find a kitchen that passes muster. It would bother me to pay a premium for a new kitchen that I would want to rip out, but you might think of it as the price of being TKO if you love the house. I think if you feel the house is reasonably priced and you love it, then buy it and rip out that ugly new kitchen and put in one that will make your heart sing about the kitchen as much as it does over the rest of the house. Recycle/donate/sell what you can so it doesn't go to a landfill and someone else will love/appreciate it.

I did buy a house with a kitchen I hate. And I'm here to tell you, there's something else to consider.

Your immediate renovation plans may not happen.

There can be lots of reasons why. Like, even though you're kitchen-saavy, you don't fully work out during the buying process just how hideously expensive fixing it might be--say, due to odd layout quirks that affect more than just the kitchen. Or other projects that you totally don't expect--like problems with a fairly new roof--completely derail your plans, and your bank account.

So, be careful. The best laid plans, and all that.

Palimpsest, I was in the exact same boat a year ago. I did buy this house while not being crazy about the kitchen - it was remodeled in 2004 - a traditional style in a mid-century modern home.

We looked at many homes and concluded that we would have to do remodeling on most of the homes we saw in our price-range in this area, which is full of 50s, 60s and 70s homes for the most part. So that in mind and budget, we chose this home because of the architecture, location and views.

I feel torn as well, and guilty about even considering it, given that most people who visit love my kitchen and would think I was batty to tear it out. But they aren't TKO and they are not me.

If the kitchen functioned well I would hesitate to change it completely, but living with it a year now, I know all the bad things about it now - no place to put a garbage can, too large and not leaving much room for the adjoining dining area, crappy low-end appliances (I am buying a new fridge this weekend), over-the-range microwave/hood that I hate, an island that has cabinet doors that you open, then pull out the drawers (haaaate!), no pantry cab, etc...

We are doing the remodeling in stages, and figure the kitchen is the last of our to-do's and we'll get around to it in a couple years or so. But that said, it could have been worse - the first place we put an offer on needed a whole-house remodel before we would have been able to live in it!

palimpest
I have been looking at lots of centrally located houses to buy as a rental for the past month.

We are in the similar market condition as you describe. The condition of the kitchen really is not reflected in the price unless it is absolutely atrocious or absolutely over the top. If the kitchen is atrocious then the entire house is a fixer and the price reflects that. If it is over the top, then the rest of the house has to be well done AND in a great location etc, so that the entire house is priced accordingly. A great kitchen does not create a price point that reflects what went into it. A great kitchen will help sell the house fast but most people will not get the money that they put into it back when they sell the house.

The most important thing to remember about real estate is that the location, the over-all architectural integrity (attractiveness, cohesiveness)of the house and functional floor plan are the things that determine the price of the house. These are the things that cannot be changed about the house easily! The kitchen is rather easy to replace relative to the things mentioned above.

I would buy a house that has all the things that you want that cannot be changed easily. Then add the cost to remodel the kitchen/bath into the price and that is your effective price. Yes, it is easier to find a house that has an old kitchen so you feel that you are not ripping out the new kitchen. But if the 'effective' price with the remodel of the newer kitchen is good enough, then you have a deal.

Following up on what marcolo very wisely suggested: if you do plan an immediate remodel, plan on spending more than you initially calculate on replacing a kitchen in a home you do not yet own. My brother purchased a home in a very similar situation: loved the house, hated the kitchen. While remodeling the kitchen, he ended up spending more than anticipated due to unexpected findings (termite damage, structural problems with the home, etc). In the end, he has finished the kitchen overbudget and overdue, but he's extremely happy with the outcome. But, because he had never lived in the home, only inspected it, he was unaware of some of these issues. It seems like so often when a home is purchased there end up being unexpected issues, either found during remodeling or simply during the course of living in the home. While having a contingency amount planned for a kitchen remodel is necessary, I think that percentage needs to be increased when the home is a somewhat unknown because you've never lived there.

''...part of me just can't wholesale remove a new kitchen or bath...Doesn't that seem wasteful even if you carefully remove it and sell it off?''

I did it. And I felt guilty as he** about it as I was planning it. But this brand-new kitchen in this brand-new house didn't accommodate my back injury at all. So even though I gutted the whole kitchen and started over, I made sure that all this brand new stuff found a good home with someone else. (The only things that we threw out were a non-functioning hood and some odds-n-ends of construction debris.) Not only am I happier, but so are four other households that got some of my castoffs.

Well, do you really think you will like anyone's else's kitchen?

I do not think so. One, you are a snob (and I mean that in the nicest way!). Two, I don't think even a perfect-pitch Christopher Peacock would make you happy. I have seen your lovely and creative kitchen, and I can't imagine you going with whatever the Joneses have.

I would buy something with finishes no one could love, bones you love, and a location you love, hopefully cheap. Are you moving up? If so, no hurry, i think higher end homes are more vulnerable right now then median homes.

I will add, and I know it is not original but we never think it applies to us (us meaning we who analyze research plan and negotiate), plan on it costing at least 2x as much and taking 2x as long. IMHO no one should undertake a major reno unless they can live with that outcome.

I may be going nowhere for a long time.

The plan is to move "up" in terms of property, a real house with a basement or garage, but to move laterally in terms of monthly costs by eliminating a high condo fee.

Briefly, I am seeing:

Houses at the low end of my budget with older kitchens that I would have no problem replacing. However, these sell fast.

Houses in the low-middle of my budget that had a number of renovations during the go go period of a few years back which I routinely dislike. There is a particular esthetic that is popular in the price range that I am aiming for that I think is just....dull and banal and mostly just really inappropriate for the type of house they are in (and cheap workmanship too).

There are houses in the top end of my budget that have some decent kitchens, but I don't want to go to the top of my budget.

The houses in the middle are the most common, the ones that stay on the market, and the ones that I can afford to spend money on. I think they were bought mostly by people at the tops of their particular budget, and they either could not afford to do a better job with the kitchens or baths, or don't know any better. And since they were at the top of their budget, now they want or need to get out.

I understand the whole budget thing, believe me...and I lived with no kitchen for four years. It just seems strange to me that the houses that are both available and still cheap enough for me to throw money at have had a lot of recent renovations. My ideal house is owned by the 90 year old who has left it untouched but maintained for decades. They just aren't as available as the others.

Been there did that. :) Took me longer than I expected to get the new kitchen in. Had a miserable time in the old, awful, kitchen. I probably wouldn't have induction if I'd done it on schedule, so that's a boon. The old kitchen was horridly inconvenient and the appliances worn out, so there wasn't so much guilt in gutting it.

What you've found about the non-effect of new kitchens and baths on prices is the norm where I live too. Those things matter most with fairly new housing, places with high inventory of nearly identical houses, and other variables that are not here.

The best thing you can do is find the house that's right for you, irrespective of the quality of the kitchen and baths, and think Craig's List, Freecycle, Salvage Yard, Habitat, and any other source that will happily reuse that which you can't live with. Even my old, mostly worn out kitchen lives on in great part. Habitat took the stove, cupboards that weren't rotted and came out whole, new hood which I'd put in, and a few other things. Various workmen took the fridge and DW and some other stuff. The tile couldn't be saved for reuse, but was recycled. Only the nasty, non-functioning oven had to be junked, and I think even that went to a place where they strip old appliances for recycling.

Also, think of dull and banal as a design challenge! What people remember about my old, blah kitchen is the mural I painted. A friend brought out the MCM in her plain old cabinets, using contact paper "Colorforms" to give them some punch. Another friend dressed up his truly banal box store granite with a display of fossils, making the granite a perfect background rather than a really boring countertop.

I think you have answered your own question.

You want the house at the low end of your budget with an outright krappy kitchen.

So, you just need to be patient for it to come along, then ready to pounce when it does.

We almost did not buy our first house because the kitchen was too nice to rip out, yet the washed oak was one of my least fave cab choices. The rest of the house and the price worked, so we bought it. I repainted the kitchen (walls only) and enjoyed its size and nice layout (and decent floor). I always thought someday I'd reface it or somehow transform it because it was young and in good condition. We moved at the 7 year mark because we wanted things that could not be done to our house and some that would cost too much. The kitchen did not factor in either way.
Our current house had a small and ugly kitchen with even uglier washed oak cabs. We knew it needed to go, so we bought with full intentions of gutting it with no guilt and knowing we could afford to do so relatively soon (as well as several other big changes overall). It took 4 years and approx $60k more for the work to get done (an extension plus renovation involving more than the kitchen) and that was after scaling back our plans. We are happy with the outcome, or should I say we are happy with how we hope it all comes out because we are stuck at approx 80% done for over a month now....

If you have to have a TKO/GW type kitchen, you will be ripping out to get one. If you can be happy with "good enough" then keep looking. I would worry less at this point if a kitchen were new or old that I was ripping out, as long as I could repurpose or sell most of it. In our first house, we had less income and could not justify changing out the kitchen. This time, we can indulge ourselves more due to a better financial footing. It is just too bad I had not realized how I could have painted the young kitchen in our first house. I had thought I might try staining them at one point, but it gave dh a heart attack to even think of trusting how it would come out. I am more handy now and he would trust me if we were ever in the same place. I wish I knew about GW about 10 years ago!

Try grading your prospective houses on the Florantha Grid of Kitchen Adventure (FGKA) and see how they rate.

There are two poles when it comes to crummy kitchens--1) the ones that have bad physical infrastructure or layout or amount of space and 2) the ones that merely have bad taste or out-of-fashion features or fewer toys than you want.

Fixing kitchens that trend toward the first pole means lots of carpentry, wiring, plumbing, refitting, adventures with the local inspectors, etc. It might now also mean lead paint and asbestos issues. Then the cabs, appliances, plumbing fixtures, and all that will need to be addressed. Plan on multiple dumpsters and a lot of new stuff. This project requires vision and money and skill. It requires time.

Fixing kitchens that trend toward the opposite pole means putting things out for reupholstery, for refinishing, for repainting, for surgical implants, for new appliances, for replacement lighting, for redefined spaces. Plan on a dumpster or two plus many trips to the Goodwill, the ReUse Center, the buddy who wants your old X, and so forth. This vision requires vision and money. It can be completed relatively quickly.

Many kitchens lie somewhere on the gradient between these two poles. But there is an intersecting gradient with two more poles and these deal with the owner of the kitchen: A) Lucky and B)Unlucky. So now we have a four-quadrant grid. If you're lucky either the #1 or #2 scenario will go well; if you're not, both #1 and #2 can be hell. "Lucky" includes fortuitous finds in cabs, flooring, etc, plus no unexpected surprises and great prices and delivery and fabulous workpersons. This saves you money and time--and people will envy you. "Unlucky" means unexpected termites, a mean inspector, a financial crisis, an unanticipated leak that rotted the innerds of the walls, etc. This costs you time and money--and people will pray for you.