Obviously I have to go through these with BF, to see what he would like to add in or take out, but this is more or less what I would like us to have posted.
I still want to see YOUR rules, but those of you who don't want to share your rules or don't have posted rules might be able to offer some feedback? Please and thank you!

Rules for Our Family:
Be nice to everyone by thinking about their feelings and being helpful
Keep your hands and feet to yourself
Chores like cooking and cleaning are for everyone
Eat healthy meals and snacks
Be safe, especially in the kitchen
Tell the truth
Mind your manners and donÂt use bad language
Clean up after yourself and take care of your own things
Be good to things like furniture and electronics so that you don't break them
Ask before you borrow something and be sure to give it back
Accept it when you donÂt get your way or you have to share
It's ok to say your opinion as long as you don't hurt anyone else's feelings

This is 11 things, and they'd be in a cool and colourful font. I was hoping for only 9, but there's still plenty of time to change it.
I was thinking of pulling "It's OK to say your opinion..." but as I mentioned some time ago, we're working hard on things like saying "I don't like this very much. Do I have to finish it" instead of "BLEEEEEARRRCH! That's guh-ross!" if you don't like what's on your plate... So I think that one should stay in for now.

So, what I'm shooting for is vague enough that there doesn't have to be 300 rules (for example - "Mind your manners and don't use bad language" includes things like saying please and thank you, as well as not belching, as well as not rambling about poop at the table or announcing if you fart, as well as not swearing... etc) but not so vague that A__ has no idea what they mean ("Take responsibility for yourself" isn't specific enough for him right now... Maybe it will be in a few years though?)

I tried to keep the rules quite positive (more DO rules than DON'T rules) and not gear them too much towards A__, but more general guidelines of good behavior that everyone has to follow. I specifically didn't put it rules about bedtime or doing what you're told because I don't want A__ to feel that this is just one more way for grown-ups to boss him around.

Any feedback for what I've constructed so far?

Ceph,
Your rules sound great. I'm going to give them to my DH especially about keeping his hands to himself. JK! He's always all over me & I have the three little ones climbing on me & that's enough right now. Those are really good rules to live by in general.

Maybe you are taking this too seriously.. I dont know that you need to post 11 or 300 rules..You sorta lead by example...Tell him as you go whats expected..Maybe a set of rules would be resented, especially if he doesnt have the same deal set up at home..Sounds like you are being so sweet and conciensious and trying hard, admirable, but I d take it a little slower...Kid might resent and backfire on you...the best Dotz

Well I am a teacher, have worked with kids from preschool to jr. high ages. In college they always told us to keep rules positive (i.e. instead of saying no running in the house-say walk in the house). Another thing they always told us was to keep rules to a minimum. Don't make a list of tons of rules, make 4-5. And always demonstrate what following the rule looks like, sounds like, etc. Now that was for classroom management, but I find that it really applies to home as well. Just like I really try positive reinforcement, like catching your kids doing good, instead of always correcting the bad. Kids really want praise and want to do good and respond so much better to the positive approach!

We do silly things at home when I talk to the kids about a rule. If I talk about cleaning up after themselves I will walk around and use items and put them in the wrong place and ask them if I am following the rule. Of course they will say no and then I will ask them to show me following the rule and they will go around and pick things up. When we are talking about treating eachother with respect I will say things that they know are rude and then ask them whats wrong with what I said and ask them how I could have responded to the same situation. It may seem ridiculous to do these things, but it does really help them to understand what is expected. Whenever I hear people screaming at their kids in a store saying "you know better" I always think to myself "do they really? has anyone ever really taught them better?"

Dotz - I know I haven't been around much in the last month or so, (I organized a conference and then got hit with a watermain break) so I'm not sure you know the whole story of us.
In a nutshell: I've been with my BF for about a year, but we have known each other for about six years. We're planning to get engaged very soon, but cash-wise, that may be delayed a bit due to the flood and what it's doing to our finances. His almost 9 year old son, A__, isn't biologically his, but BF has been his dad since he was about a month old. The guy that got BM pregnant and then threatened to kill her is not in the picture. We have A__ at least one day a week and his life is incredibly unstable, because he gets bounced around between FOUR different houses. A__ has very severe ADHD and requires a lot more structure than most other kids. So irregular scheduling is the biggest problem A__'s occasionally selfish mom gives us. I have worked very hard to cultivate a good relationship with A__ , by taking things slowly, letting him set the boundaries, etc, and it has absolutely paid off - A__ and I get along great and he listens very well to me (possibly better than he does to BF). BF and I have worked long and hard to find techniques that work well to help A__ follow rules, timelines, etc, and have discovered that he's very visual and likes to have things written down. We were planning to ask BM about a more regular schedule once we got engaged and I moved to BF's place, so that A__ could have more structure in his week.
So please don't think that I just waltzed into A__'s life last week and started telling him what to do. This has been a slow and careful process.

BF and I talked before about posting rules, and that I would write them, then he and I would edit them together. We talked about that they should be general guidelines of good behavior that are up mostly to benefit A__, but that we all have to follow.
We were planning on waiting until BF's brother moved out (for a variety of reasons) but now that BF and A__ are moving in to my house, this seems to be an ideal time.

Mom2emall - I love the idea of demonstrating by ridiculous examples. I'll have to remember that one!

We do sometimes ask things like
"Do you think that was a nice thing to say?" "What was rude about it?" "How could you have said it better?"
or
"What did you do with your pajamas when you took them off?" "Is that what you're supposed to do with your pajamas?" "Can you tell me where they're supposed to go and put them there yourself, please?"

And I share your pet peeve of "You know better than that!"
I also try not to use it, although I admit that it slips out once in awhile to A__ or to my N&Ns...

Ceph,

Also try to remember with ADHD there can be a lot of impulsive behavior (act now, think later) and a lot of forgetfulness that A_ does not always have control over, unfortunately it is part of ADHD. So as hard as it may be, please try to be patient! I worked with kids with ADHD, ADD, Autism, and many other disabilities and they can try your patience. My sd has ADHD and we do not have her on medication, so I know how trying it can be at home!

Just hang in there!! You and your bf are both wonderful people for taking on A_ when biologically he is not either of your children!

Haha, do I know it!
We know that A__ doesn't have control over his impulses as well as some other kids do... and are very patient with him.
We're always looking for things that can help him and help us, and we've caught onto that he likes to have things written down. When he and I made notebooks, he started writing down EVERYTHING about his computer games in his one book.
He also does well with frequent reminders and written instructions. For example, in order to get him to wake us up when he wants breakfast on weekends, we had to spend a month leaving a note on the keyboard "Wake us up from the bedroom door when you get hungry". That was OK by us - he was listening to the reminder, so we sure didn't mind leaving it. After awhile, we went to just saying it at bedtime, with no note. Now, we don't have to say anything, he just knows to wake us up for breakfast (but it took about 4 months to get to that stage). So I'm all about patience.

I think some of those rules are not specific enough and open to interpretation, especially if you are a kid. Even something like expressing your opinion if you don't hurt someone's feelings - I can guarantee that my kids would have argued that, "bleech, that's gross" should not have hurt anyone's feelings, because it did not involve the word "you" as in "you couldn't boil water if your life depended on it." Or, "I'm being careful," as they use the drawers as steps to reach something on the top shelf. I don't even want to think about how they would use the "accept when you don't get your way" rule if these rules are supposed to apply to everyone. Rules need to be few and very specific, like "wash your hands before you eat anything" or "feed the dog before you eat breakfast."

Our rules are simple:

1. Treat other's the way you want to be treated.

2. Clean up after yourself.

3. Take responsibility for what you do.

There are rules about bedtimes, SD8 is 8:30 Teens are 11pm.

Our rules are more of expectations for SD as she is now 13 - we've had these since she was 11. They are a little out of A__'s league, but I thought I would post them in case some might be useful, of in case people need something to pick apart. :-)

You are responsible for your own actions. No one is to blame or fault when you make a poor choice but yourself. DonÂt make excuses for a poor choice, just correct it and remember not to repeat it.

Admit when you make a mistake. It happens. Be mature enough to admit it and apologize if necessary. Know that arguing the point turns a mistake into a poor choice.

Have a positive attitude. Appreciate those things that you have rather than complain about those you donÂt. See the good in a person or situation and share that with others rather than pointing out a personÂs faults or the problems with a situation.

Give 100%. Homework, housework, activities, friendships and family members all deserve that.

School comes first. You are there to learn, so accept that you are going to have to put forth effort to do that. It wonÂt be easy, and it will take time that you would like to spend doing something else, but without good grades there wonÂt be anything else for you to do.

Be aware of others. Think of others feelings and needs before acting or speaking. Put yourself in someoneÂs shoes before passing judgment on them. Realize the world is not centered on your wants.

Respect peopleÂs time, effort and money. Driving you around, participating in your activities and purchasing items for you are not actions you are just entitled to. Understand that someone is giving something of their own to make your request happen, and behave accordingly. Appreciate what they do. Ask, donÂt expect.

Respect and appreciate your belongings. Respect is not shown by leaving things lying on the floor. Take care of them, put them away.

Pick up after yourself. If you get something out, put it away BEFORE moving on. If you make a mess, clean it up BEFORE moving on. By putting things away right away you save time, and the also the chance of losing them.

Except the first answer you are given the first time. Just because you want something to happen does not mean the rules change. No is no, regardless of "but" or "what if."

DonÂt make mountains out of molehills. A problem is made worse when turned into a huge issue. Deal with it, donÂt dramatize it. A little blood does not mean death. A little effort does not mean exhaustion.

BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. You are capable of doing this, and much more, without having to be reminded or scolded. Just slow down, think about what you say and do and try. 100% effort will get you a long way.

I like when you give helpful feedback.
I see your point about the expressing opinions one and the safety one. Maybe I'll try to make them a smidge more specific.

As for how the "accept when you don't get your way rule" applies to everyone (except maybe the cat - she can't make compromises)
A__ sees BF and I making compromises all the time. We try to use our compromises as examples for A__ when he doesn't want to do something ("At supper last night, I didn't want to do the dishes, but Ceph did the cooking, so that's fair.") or when he doesn't want to follow a timeframe ("Dad wanted to go at 6, but I wanted to go at 4, so we decided on 5.") or when he doesn't want to share ("Ceph and I shared a can of pop. You don't need a whole can for yourself.")
So we try to set an example of sharing and compromising, and encourage him to do it too... So it applies to us too.

It's interesting to see that Ima's and JNM's rules have the same general themes, but JNM's are quite specific and Ima's are very broad.
Thank you both for posting! Both sets are quite helpful.

Also interesting - we've tried asking "would you want to be treated like that?" when A__ was being, to be honest, quite a jerk. His reply was always "I wouldn't care"
Now, you and I sure know that A__ would care if his dad called him stupid, said he hated him, and threw his book in the garbage can because Dad was mad at A__ (That's what A__ did to BF)... but A__ will cling to that he wouldn't care if he was treated that way, just to not have to apologize for his bad behavior.
So I opted to not include "treat others how you would like to be treated" and I think BF will also prefer "Be nice to everyone by thinking about their feelings and being helpful" but the point is really the same!

We found we had to be very specific and give examples because SD is much like TOS's kids sound . . . she will read into everything and try to find the loophole needed so that she is not breaking a rule. We tried to get away from the more childlike just telling her what not to do - no hitting, no yelling, etc. - and be a little broader so that she had to think about her actions . . . all while not creating loopholes.

That was not an easy feat!

Ima,

I generally agree with your rules, but bedtimes for 16 (and she goes voluntarily) are early on weeknights, later on weekends.

The clean up after yourself rules can be interpreted differently at different homes. For example, in my house, dirty dishes are to be taken to kitchen sink and rinsed or left to soak. The reason for this is my dishwasher is on its last legs, and I am trying to prolongue its life, and I am the best one to load it, etc (problem with door).

We have this one posted on pretty blue paper on the fridge:

House Rules

If you make a mess, clean it up.
If you turn it on, turn it off.
If you take it out, put it away.
If you break it, admit it.
If you borrow it, return it.
If it's yours, take care of it.
If you move it, put it back.
If it belongs to someone else, ASK before you use it.
If it's none of your business, don't ask.
If you don't know how to use it, leave it alone.

Then basic rules we follow:

Wash hands before dinner.

If I send you to your room its because I need a time-out.

No electronics(tv, radios, gameboys etc.) before breakfast.

No food/drink in any room but the kitchen.

Homework is done right after school.

No electronics(tv, radios, gameboys etc.) until homework is done.

One snack afterschool.

Home at 5:30 for dinner.

Come home when the street lights come on.

Bedtime is at 8, 8:30 and 9:00

Half hour before bedtime prepare for next day.
Call mom, get clothes ready, put stuff in your bag, etc.

Can't leave the house until 10:00am on no school days
(They would want to go to friends houses at 7am and have friends over at 7am)

8PM I am off duty :) (I work from 6am to 8pm, 14 hour day at 8PM I am done entertaining children)

We have signs posted everywhere: Mostly on the fridge the place they spend the most time.

Table manners
Basic manners
How to set a table
(The above were printed on 11x14 pieces of paper that I put clear contact paper over we used them as placemats)

Chore chart (We all use the same one)

Calendar highlighted
for days they are going to mom's
(SD9 would ask 2 or more times daily Do I go to mom's today?)
Do I have gym today?
Do I have art today?

My SSs are on allergy meds I would ask daily did you take your meds... and I would get snapped at because I am "always telling them what to do" so I posted signs on the bathrooms mirrors ...Did you take your medication today? and I do not ask anymore.

SS 10 uses an inhaler, if he forgets his inhaler but remembers his gameboy, gameboy gets taken away for one day. You can live with out the gameboy but not the inhaler.

SS12 has to "come up" with his own punishment and it has to fit the "crime".

Ah, Ceph, I did not know all those details, him getting bounced and such..Sorry..You are right, some kids more visual, I remember my own little niece getting her phone number and address mixed up,and I drew a picture of a telephone with the number inside, and a picture of a house with street address inside and posted it on the fridge, and she caught on real quick, seeing it everyday....LOL

Oh and Cawfe, no one begrudges you being stay at home mom, just dont get with the poor poor me routine. Also, where you say you work from 6 am to 8 pm, I am certain the older children recognize the inconsistencies here (no one home during the day). At this point, you are likely in a position where you can have your way. I feel sorry for your stepchildren. If you represent the situation accurately, their mother doesnt spend a lot of time with them, and you maintain your lifestyle by making certain they toe the line, and bother you (like asking questions?) as little as possible.

The best "rule" I think I ever came up with is:

If they said "you're an idiot" it meant "I love you".

I would make a big deal out of it... "wow he must love you alot to call you an idiot that many times a day".

Cawfe - no radio before breakfast?!!
Good gravy, I could never follow that one! I love my CBC Morning Edition too much.
And I try to make sure than any rules for A__ are ones we're willing to follow as well, so that one would be out the window for us!

So, just to be clear, you have posted rules about respecting people and property... And then the things like "be home when the streetlights come on" are verbal rules, not lists of imperatives?

We've also talked a lot about posting little picture signs... So I'm glad to hear that has worked in your household. We even put up a hand-washing one in the bathroom, but BF's brother took it down and said it was "f--ing stupid" (see how we had to wait until he was gone to do some of this stuff?)

*Sigh* I WISH we could mark a calendar with the days A__ will be at each of his houses... But the poor guy's life is totally unpredictable

I noticed that your arrival here was around the same time I vanished for awhile because I had no time for the board an figured you didn't know our story. :)

On the 'rudeness' issue -- One technique that has worked well for me is to say "I don't think that came out right. Can you please try saying that again?" And have the boys keep trying until they come up with a polite, kind and tactful way to communicate what it is they wanted to say. It's also been useful at difusing anger or 'the whines' with humor.

I like your core list Ceph, but would vote to shorten it a bit to things that are actually more house-related, like chores or safety.

None of their personal radios...(headphones can't hear me calling them for breakfast) if they use them they "forget" to eat breakfast and end up shoveling their breakfast to make the bus in time. This is a school day rule. Weekends they could eat breakfast in the living room as long as they cleaned their mess.
If you make a mess, clean it up.

I have the tv on in the kitchen... but not what channel they want to watch. (not disney)

When they are heading out after dinner ... "be home when the street lights come on" it is said and if we "forget to say it" they already know it so no excuse.... we used to tell the oldest to be home at 7 he would say his friend doesn't have any clocks in his house. So we bought him a watch .... even though his cell phone has a clock he never "thought to look at this phone".

Well now you are at "your house" you can make the "rules" by the time BF's house is fixed they rules should be on their way to becoming habits...

Pictures worked well with SD when she couldn't read. Now they all read and have been following the "rules" for so long its like second nature.... they rarely "break" the rules....

My SC have made great strides in the past 3 years... they were very young and hubby was very lax in any consequences because their mom was not around and he didn't want to hurt them further with rules.... the rules we have are not that traumatic for children they are basic rules....

There are rules and consequnces to everything in life.

How do you open a door?
rule: put your hand out to open it
consequence: don't put your hand out, walk into the door

If you spill milk?
Rule: You clean it up
consequnce: don't clean it the house smells like sour milk.

Crossing the street?
Rule: Look both ways
Consequence: get run over.

kkny

Why would you feel sorry for cawfe's step children? She sounds like she's well organized and with more than one child, you need to be or it is chaos. Isn't it a parent's job to make children 'tow the line'? Don't answer, I don't expect you to agree. But, I think it is... bio or step children, they need structure and to learn responsibility. I work from home so sometimes I feel like a SAHM. When I am caught up with work and have time, I don't sit around all day, painting my nails or taking a nap, I am doing laundry, cleaning the house or running errands. There's a lot to do around a house all day when the kids aren't home. (not to mention when the school calls to pick up a sick child, a trip to the doctor, then pharmacy, etc.) I just wish I could get dinner on the table before dark so SD could go play outside after. I'm also guessing that because she stays home, they get healthier meals, not the take out or convenience foods most working parents have to feed their families because they don't have time to cook after work all day. I think Cawfe's step children are very lucky.

A SAHM is not the same thing as a mom who works at home. You do laundry, etc on breaks. I am just saying that to tell children you work from 6 to 8 is one thing, not the same as a SAHM. I agree on structure and responsibility, but Cawfe has also said she has told the stepchildren "I am not your mom, I dont have to do anything". Knowing that these children dont have anyone other adult to care for them. I think it is difficult to draw a line between structure and resposniblity, and resenting stepchildren, especially becasue one resents their mother.

Well, I don't see it as resentment of the step children. If you had a step child, you might understand better what it feels like to do things for the child (things a parent does for their own child) only to have the child say "I don't have to listen to you, you're not my mom" or in some way treat you like you are intruding in their life. I know you will say that a step parent is intruding, the child didn't ask for the step parent, the step parent had the choice, the child didn't. That's true, but when a step parent is the one in the position of providing parental type care (because dad has to work to support the family~ surely you won't suggest he quit his job and stay home), then there is nothing wrong with telling a child "I don't HAVE to do these things for you, I do them because I WANT." BTW, I tell that to my children that are legally adults, I don't have a legal responsibility to support them anymore. I do so because I want them to have a better life and they are not ready to be on their own. If they are disrespectful toward me, then I sure would tell my own kids that I don't HAVE to take that from them. Other mom's may not agree, but there are children out there that mistreat their parents and there is no 'moral' obligation to take that abuse. And I resent the hell out of my SD's mom. I don't resent my SD because of her mom, I feel bad for her. (and I don't get the impression that Cawfe resents her step children either. I think many parents would like some time in the evenings with no kids, even a SAHM. With all the hustle & bustle of kids after school until bedtime, who wouldn't want a little quiet time with hubby?)

She would die if she saw my chore chart... :)

how many loads of laundry do you wash dry and fold on a daily basis? There is 7 people who live here.

If everyone showers the night before thats a load of towels.

I have atleast 2 everyday ... granted I am spoiled we do have a washer and dryer. I don't have to go to the river and scrub the clothes on rocks.

I do the dishes twice a day again spoiled we have a dishwasher.

How many times a week do you have to wash your floor... ex picked out while ceramic tiles....I have to wash it atleast once a day... summer and snow days its more. Between mud and everyday living ... again we have a mop ....

Oh all the convienences of modern day living.

Yes I have a menu listed for every day to so they know what we are having for dinner so I don't have to answer that question many times a day.... SD does her homework at the kitchen table while I make dinnner....if SS12 is home he helps make dinner and dessert.

The set dinnertime is easiest because we don't have to "wait" for anyone not home in time for dinner.

The kids came home yesterday at 5:45pm from their cousins after being with mom all weekend (mom dropped them off at 1pm at the cousins house around the corner) ... hubby said put dinner away I'll order pizza .... they wanted tuna, BLT's and hot dogs from the pizza place ... I told hubby ... give me the $40.00 and I'll make tuna, BLT's and hot dogs and pizza for you.

I have $40 and they had what they all wanted for dinner!

Sorry didn't mean to whine... but people with only one teenage kid don't have a clue.

just the clarify why I am even bothering I don't know....

But the 6am to 8 pm is what my day is like when they are home from school ... vacations and summer....

They get up at 6 am (on school days I have to drag them out of bed) and a ready and rearing to go all day long ...until 8 PM yes they are school age but they didn't know how to interact with each other everything was a battle.... they fought over everything and not just words ... how many teeth has your daughter lost because her brother threw her down the stairs? How many times have you had to rush your child to the emergency room for chemicals sprayed in his eyes by his brother? they were playing with spray paint and decided to hit the can with an axe! How many times have you sprained your ankle walking through your backyard because your son thought digging holes in the backyard would be fun like he saw in a movie looking for treasure?

They may be school age but they had no boundaries they had to be watched like 2 yr old triplets.

You are correct ... I did tell them that ...but guess what they "know" now ... and do not "demand" me to do things for them anymore they ask ... my SS12 no longer wakes me up at 5:30 to make him breakfast he can do it himself... I taught him how to make many different breakfast meals.

I resent how their mother has told them to talk to me .... you don't have to listen to her, she can't discipline you but then she is calling me to give her suggestions on how to handle difficult situations with them... or threatening her own children with telling me what they did at her house and how I should punish them for how they acted at her house. Or how she thinks its "cute" when they are calling me atleast 3 times a week to bring stuff to school they forgot even so far as go to her house get their stuff and bring it to school ... you know pens pencils pokemon cards tissues.... and how I should be happy they need me ... well they can need you just as much I will tell them to call you ... no I wouldn't bring that stuff ... oh well neither am I .

If you read my posts recently mom has stepped up and doing right by her kids ..... maybe it has to do with the rich BF maybe it doesn't but either way as long as it lasts I will enjoy it.

The ONE time that A__ has tried a "I don't have to listen to you because you're not my mom or dad" I promptly replied with "OK, that's fine. But in that case, since you're not my kid, I don't have to make your meals, take you to soccer, buy you things, take you places, give you hugs and kisses, or do any of the the things that I do for you and with you. Still want to not listen to me?"

I've also never noticed Cawfe to be resentful of her SKs. I have noticed once or twice when she's seemed frustrated with them, but that's entirely different.
I've noticed once or twice that she may have been resentful of that their mom isn't being a good mom... But I think she tries hard not to take that out on the kids.

PS - You get woken up at unreasonable hours for breakfast too?? The earliest I got was 4 am, and I sent him back to bed with a "don't wake us up for breakfast until 8". Now he knows that if he wakes up before 8, he can have all the water he wants, but nothing else, and not to wake us up for breakfast until 8.
Before I get jumped on for "water and nothing else" until 8, let me remind you that when A__ "makes his own breakfast" he eats things like 11 mandarin oranges or an entire box of Breton crackers or half a bag of cookies. If he's allowed to have juice or milk, he'll drink the entire carton of it and get a bellyache. When we tried "you can have one of these glasses of juice before 8" he had about 4 or 5 of the glasses and lied about it.

In a few weeks, I'm going to try getting him to help me prepare his breakfast the evening before (cut up an orange and put it in a container, portion out the cereal and milk so all he has to do is combine them, put the yogurt in a little covered container) and put it all one one self on the fridge with the cutlery and EVERYTHING and see how he does.
We want him to be independent and learn to make his own breakfast, but right now, he's not up for it.

Good for you Ceph! -- Taking the time to help A_ learn how to do things independently like that.

We showed our son how to make his own breakfast, and now he insists on making the coffee every morning and really likes to make breakfast for me. He's very proud of all the things he knows how to do --

What time does he wake up? It seems like 8 is rather late for most kids for breakfast - a lot of them seem to wake up by 6:30 (mine actually sleep until at least 7:30 or 8, but that is unusual).

Remember that we mostly have A__ on weekends.
He usually sleeps until about 8 (between 7:30 and 8:30 is his usual range). It's not uncommon for him to wake up between 7 and 7:30 on a weekend though - in which case he can wait until 8 for breakfast.
On weekends he goes to bed at 11 (so gets a good 8-9 hours sleep). If we put him to bed at 10, he wakes up at 6:30 or so. If we keep him up until midnight, he sleeps until about 9... So that appears to be his natural amount of sleep he needs.
On schoolnights I believe he goes to bed at around 9:30 and gets up around 7. I've only been around for one schoolnight bedtime, so can't say for certain.

When I say that he goes to bed at 11, I mean getting tucked in at 11... So toys gets cleaned up by 10 and computer goes off around that time too, then pajamas go on and teeth are brushed, and we read or watch TV to mellow out for awhile before it's time to sleep.

What's really interesting to me... Having had him on my own a few times while BF is gone (he gets home tonight!!!) I found that there is no arguing about bedtime with me. I tell him that it's time to go to bed and he does. I tuck him in, give him a hug and kiss, and turn out the light. Five minutes later, he's out cold. When BF tells him it's time to go to bed, he stalls, wants a drink, wants to go pee, wants another hug, wants the hall light on or off again, wants to know where the cat is, etc etc.
I think the difference is that I check all the stuff like "Do you need a drink of water and do you need to go pee?" BEFORE bedtime, and say "No. It's bedtime. Go to sleep" if he stalls or "I will change the light but you'll stay in bed and not make another peep until morning" (because that's what my parents did with me)... I also say "If the cat wants to sleep with you, she'll come to you once you're being quiet"
BF will say "Sure, go get a drink" or lets him get up to fiddle with the light ten times, or goes on a cat-hunt while A__ sits up in bed to wait for the cat to be brought, and then A__'s mad and has to be placated when she runs away because she didn't come to him by choice.
I'm sure I'll get blasted by someone for being a hard@55 for that, but I'm firm about bedtimes and that's final.

Goin' on a "cat-hunt": that's so cute!

(I'm a HUGE cat lover, and kids who love cats help restore my hope for the world's future!)

Well, A__ likes cats, but cats DON'T like him.
He's too jumpy and unpredictable, so they're really edgy and run away from him. When he does manage to catch them, he's pretty rough with them and obviously they don't like that...
So when he's older, I think he'll be better, but for now his love of cats is far from mutual :)

how is it 8am late on the weekends? if kids get up earlier why do they have to eat right away? i think they can wait at least until 8.

I agree... I tell my kids all of the time that it is not unreasonable for me to expect them to be quiet and chill out until 8am on the weekend. I am NOT a morning person and my two days a week that I can sleep until 8 at least instead of getting up at 5 or 6 is necessary to my sanity. They can wait or they can feed themselves.... but then again that is just my opinion

Why does everyone pick on cawfe? I have five kids, the days I work are actually more relaxing then the weekends when I'm home will all the boys :D Being a stay at home mom isn't always Oprah and ice cream...

House Rules (keep in mind this is a house with 5 boys..):
No insults
No hitting
No throwing
No running
The mattress stays on your bed
Ninjas must pick up their swords
James bond does not live here - no guns or 'enemy traps' allowed in the house
Please & Thank yous
No tattling
No lying
Keep your hands to yourself
Clean up your mess
If you made a mess/broke something, notify an adult
Keep basement door shut (so little ones don't fall down the stairs)
Food/Drink stays in the kitchen
no lights/electronics on if you're not in the room

Chores are:
put your laundry away
feed the pets
clean your room

Dailies:
Homework time starts at 7:30
Reading at 8:00
lights out by 8:30.

Not too bad harsh :)

not too bad or harsh I meant >.>

LOL - "Ninjas must pick up their swords" is really written on your fridge??

yes...SS7 is the 'master of costumes' one of which being a ninja for lets say..three months continuously...ever seen daddy day care? yeah like flash...when he was younger he was worse with his 'spider man' outfit. I had to actually wait for him to fall asleep to take it off and wash it, otherwise he threw a huge fit.

Too funny! That reminds me of a friend of mine...

Her son had quite an obsession with elephants when he was about two and a half. He BEGGED for an elephant costume and begged and begged and begged... So she got him one and he wore it absolutely EVERYWHERE. She could only get it off of him at bathtime and bedtime and had to wash it while he was sleeping or he'd cry because he thought it would drown.
She was pretty mellow about it, and didn't care that he looked like a goof wearing a costume in April... but she said it was quite trying.

Thats OK, my DD loved her snow white costume so much she wanted a dark wig and she wanted me to dress in a snow white cosutume

Too funny, Sieryn. 5 boys, what fun that must be!

Does "NOT ME" live near you too?

I would ask who did _______ all of them would say "not me" ... and I would turn around and say well "not me" isn't allowed here anymore. I should call "not me's" mom and have a talk with her about all the stuff her kid does over here. I bet she would ground him for life.

Or when I would ask who did ________ and don't blame "not me" I know his mom grounded him so he couldn't have been here today.

Poor "not me" gets blamed for everything. Always wanted to get a pet and name it "not me".

All I know is 'not me' and his cousin 'but he did it' gets thier friends grounded alot :)

My rules are pretty simple. Respect me and i'll respect you. Dont respect me, the door is there.:) Its works quite well. They begin to think after that.
I think its a great idea to teach kids at a young age to clean and cook. Not all of them are receptive to the idea. My SS is excited to learn something new but he's clutsy...lol..so i worry about him. He gets over excited and doesn't pay attention but hes up to doing something new. My SD on the other hand is 12 and we are trying ot teach her but she doesn't want most of the time cause its work for her:) lol. Well she's getting it from both ends. Her mom is telling her fromnow on she has to wash her dishes and clean her laundry on top of cleaning her room and makign her bed. She complained to me that her mom is the adult and she has to do it. I explained to her that she wont be a child forever and that its her moms rules. You live in her house. , you obey her rules. You dont want to , get a job, get your own place and do what you want. She turned around and said' well what did you do when your dad said this to you. ?" I smiled and said' i got a job and moved out:)' not right away but within the year. My dad was shocked but proud of me in the end. My SD mouth dropped open. I explained, you are lucky to have two houses that love you very much but that doesn't mean you will never grow up and move out. That doesn't mean you can sit around and depend on someone else to do everything for you. Both your parents will not have a person depending off of them forever.. Im sure your mother has already told you to find a job when you turn 16 yes?? she said yes... I told her, Dont be upset, you'll be happy having a job and earning your own money. This is growing up. We all did it. you are at the beginning of your journey.
She cleans her room but the dishes is not her fortay:)