If everyone could *truly* get along, shared holidays with both parental groups would be a nice bonus for the kids. A nice but not crucial novelty, like: "wow, divorced parents that actually get along!" But when it's impossible to keep peace, and it ends up being all about the bickering parents, you're better off not doing it, for the reasons you mentioned.

Most children of divorce celebrate holidays separately and by now it's culturally an expected arrangement that most kids would understand comes with divorce. From my experience as a child of divorce (since age 2), there was never any damage done by having separate times with my different parents. The only key to bear in mind is to MAKE SURE that you set up an agreed-upon scheduling system for dividing/sharing the holidays and stick with it. Whether that's switiching off every year, dividing a vacation week in half, claiming certain holidays on a permanent basis, whatever works for you. When it's agreed-upon and established, no one can start a fight (which ends up putting kids in the middle, each and every time soem holiday comes up.) The way we finally figured it out in my family has worked very well for many years: I see my Dad at Christmas breaks and my mom at Thanksgiving (she's Jewish, so Christmas isn't a big deal to her either way). Before we figured that out, though, it was a fight every time with dividing the days and "you had her 2 extra days last time", etc. We found a schedule and stuck to it, so separate holidays, in and of themselves, have been the very least of our mutual woes!

I totally agree with Serenity --
Divorced holidays seem to be the new normal. IF everyone could get along, then a blended holiday would be a lovely gift to the kids, but it doesn't sound likely.

When my parents divorced, we would spend one holiday with mom, the next with dad. (ie. Thanksgiving with mom, Christmas with dad) When dad remarried, we had to split out holidays with dad with my step siblings because the couple of times they tried to have all of us there, it didn't go well. We were teens when our parents divorced and practically grown when dad remarried. As long as my dad was remarried, they continued to have separate holidays. The reason was because my mom couldn't be nice to my step mom. My step mom is now ill and my mom has been included in some holidays, if she behaves herself. She still says & does things that make it uncomfortable for everyone and has to be reminded that it's not acceptable. You'd think that at 60+ years old, she'd grow up. All of us are in our late 30's-early 40's and would like to have holidays where the kids & grandkids can have mom & dad there without a problem. It does make it difficult because mom still makes comments that she'd like dad to take her back, she always tries to sit next to him and it's just pretty sad because he really has no interest in her like that.

When I met my DH, he had also been getting together for some holidays with his ex. They took her trick or treating or to watch fireworks together. When I came along, it was too strange for me. I thought it was silly to drive two hours to watch fireworks and wanted to go to a show closer to us. He told me it was a tradition for them to go. I told him that he can go, but I'm not driving two hours to keep his tradition with her. He decided not to go and she threw a fit when he told her. I hadn't realized that she might still think of themselves as a family. They had been broken up for five years before he met me. He didn't realize until he got together with me and she began to act jealous and the more serious we got, the worse she's gotten. The only day they were willing to share was their daughter's birthday and last year, she ruined her daughter's birthday by causing a scene. Now, this year the problem has come up because DH and his ex have agreed on separate birthdays after last years fiasco, but the daughter is used to both her parents there that she expects her mom & mom's new boyfriend to be at this years party that we are hosting. We'd love it if she could come and be nice but she is openly hostile toward me and doesn't care if her daughter is witness to it. Right now we are holding our breaths and hoping she won't want to come because we don't want to be the ones to tell SD that her mom can't come, but we also don't want her birthday ruined.

I think if the adults can all get along and there are no animosity or jealousies, then the best thing is to have a big gathering where everyone can be there. I think it would be wonderful if people could get along that way. Unfortunately, that's not always the case and it's best for kids to not be around grown up problems and fighting. (and joint holidays should never be done in a way to encourage the child's desire or give false hope to have his parents back together. It should be made clear that 'mom & dad are just friends now.')

My DH and his ex tried one Christmas together for my SD after their split and it was the first and last attempt at holiday togetherness. Since then separate holidays have been the norm and my SD is used to it. She was only 2 when her bio parents last shared a holiday together so she's really known it no other way.

I think it is very important for families to have traditions they can look forward to and remember. Honestly, at 4 your girls are going to get that something is different about the first separate holidays, but after one year apart separate holidays will be their norm. We got custody of my SD when she was in Kindergarten, and we have split vacations into Spring Break and Thanksgiving 4 day weekend and w/mom even years, us odd. Even she has Christmas Eve, odd Christmas Day, and we try to split up Christmas vacation as evenly as possible with each home having a fair amount of time pre- Christmas Day. BM also gets 4 weeks in the summer. Because this is so set we can schedule around it well in advance so we always know when the traditional tree hunt will be, the light parade, and so on.

Up until BM remarried last year she was quite bitter about what she called "our cute little family traditions." Obviously she had just as many opportunities to make her own with her daughter, but she wasn't interested unless she had a man, and those came and went. She was more interested in trashing on ours. Now that she has another child and a "family" (I guess she didn't quantify she and her daughter as a family) she is trying to start up all these things we have been doing for years and attempting to change around the schedule to suit her needs. We are trying to be as supportive of her new family as possible while still sending the message that our family has traditions we set around the schedule and she can't expect them to change for her now.

I digress . . . . birthdays are the only thing we have ever really shared, and that is because I invite mom to SD's party with friends every year. If you want a real laugh, search for the posts in February surrounding this year's party and the fact I 'slept' with my husband's ex!
We each have separate family parties for her though.

My advice to you is to work with your BF on starting your own traditions, but be understanding of the fact BM will feel slighted and left out. Perhaps you could suggest a local holiday activity you heard about for them to do and start their own tradition around. Make this a good separating and growing experience for everyone involved.

Best of luck!

I think this is just another example of why, ideally, neither parent should get remarried/cohabitate with someone else until the children are grown. And if "nesting" were encouraged, where the kids stay put in the house and the parents come and go, there would even be a convenient location in which to share holidays.

but share with who, TOS? Even if they aren't dating they may not want to share holidays with each other regardless of the location. Perhaps that is a reason they got . . . divorced?

My DH and ex were having separate holidays before either started dating. In separate homes. In separate cities. And yet, my SD can still function.

TOS still doesn't get it, same thing happens when the children are adults.

theotherside, it can be seen as an example of why the parents shouldn't remarry or cohabitate with anyone else until the children are grown, or it can be seen as an example of how immature the parents can be when they put their own feelings and adult issues before what's best for their kids. I can guarantee that most divorced couples, as much as they love their children, don't want to spend Christmas morning with their ex, whether they have remarried or not. I guess it all depends on the people and the reasons they divorced. If you have a 'friendly' divorce, then perhaps it's possible to remain friends and share holidays, but I think it's uncommon. Honestly, the best solution is to get along and stay married, but that isn't always possible. and divorced couples generally don't like each other much. It's not good to put kids in a negative environment, which is why it's sometimes better to get divorced in the first place.

why would anyone want to share holidays with their exspouses? And i am not that sure about kids wanting that either. kids need to understand that parents are no longer together and kids can have two families. one with mom and the other one with dad, and this is nothing to do with getting married. I wasn't married or cohabitating or even dating most of DD's life but me and DD still were a family, and I have extended family. So DD altrenated holidays. one holiday with me and my side of the familiy, the other one with her dad and his side of the familiy or his wife or whoever he was with at that time lol. The only holiday we ever shared was DD's birthday and even that was only few times.

I agree with imamommy that it is uncommon even if parents had amicable divorce. i was always on friendly terms with my ex and we did become friends, but I still do not want to spend my holidays with him. No matter how friendly we are, it is just unnatural to share events together. Now of course children's graduation or children's wedding or similarly big events in kids' lives is a totally different thing, but not a regular holiday. People get divorced because they don'ty want to be together anymore, so it sends wrong message to the kids: are mommy and daddy getting back together?

And I cannot imagine my BF sharing holidays with my exhusband. And i would not want to see my BF's exwife at my dinner table. It would be uncomfortable.

I think having seperate family gathers are normal especially when there is tension in the air. Its better for the girls.
As for advice. Father should sit down and have a serious talk immediately with the girls to tell them you are not the other woman and that the marriage was destroyed well after you came along. As well to tell them mommy and daddy will not get back together. My DH has that same talk with both his kids.
His ex accused me of beign the other woman just to get her kids to hate me. LOL..that backfired too. SD asked me point blank and i said no. I met your dad when you were very little and i had a boyfriend, soon to be fiancee at the time and i left to live in another province. How on earth would i get together with your dad? No SD, i never had an affair with your father cause i was not in the province to do so and i wasn't raised that way. Obviously, someone is lying to you. Tell them to go to church!
That was setteled quickly and it has to be.
As for the ex, i would contact her and quickly tellher and remind her she brought in another man and to stop poisoning her kids. Send her a legal letter and make it official for the record. and then wipe your hands clean of her.

"Honestly, the best solution is to get along and stay married"

I definitely agree with that statement.

Maybe if people knew that, even if they divorced, they wouldn't be able to start all over with a new family, with a younger/richer/"perfect" new spouse and that they would have to make the effort to get along with their current spouse, they would be less prone to divorce. Too many people think divorce is an easy opportunity for a do-over of their life and don't think about all the fall-out. Divorce is never an easy fix - not easy on the parents or the children.

A child's birthday or Christmas is just as important to them as graduation in many cases. I think my kids would have appreciated having their father and I celebrate their birthdays together far more than they cared whether he came to their high school or college graduation.

Colleen....Thats a great point ... when children become adults you then have to share time between parents and in-laws ... how do you do it? you work it out whatever works best for your family and if you do it two years in a row it kind of becomes "tradition"...

My SC go to BM's every holiday eve @ 7PM... come home at 11AM or 1PM depending which holiday ... christmas they come home at 11 but new years they come home at 1 ... memorial day 1, easter 11...

We have a very strict visitation schedule compared to most. There is no deviation from set schedule.... this is a new thing ... a year ago mom changed every day time and day the kids were very confused ... hubby asked for a specific schedule ... exact days and times for basically every day of the year.... 5 months now no deviations from set schedule.

My SC have birthday parties with mom we do not do parties we have "it's your day" you get to pick what we do ... dinner and a movie amusement park whatever they want to do we do it but no party.

Doodle you can be cordial without being friendly ... there are many times we have to interact with BM school functions mostly ... I am not her friend, she is their mother. She will get the respect of being their mother but I do not have to be her friend. I wave, I nod my head as to say hello but thats about as friendly as it gets... I do not want to break bread with her... the wounds are still healing. I have a very good memory so I cannot forget the things she has said to children ...I let them go I do not let them get to me (as much) any longer.

If YOU do not want to share those occassions with mom don't let your BF and her have a great time take time for yourself ... let them figure it out... if they cannot get along then they shouldn't be hanging out body language says much more than words to kids. Kids feel tension before one word is even said.

I have it easy compared to most if mom and I have a disagreement we get on the phone with each other now and work it out. This is fairly new as well ... after the last time they went to court she called here and we settled things my statement was basically ... if you and he want to argue for the next 15 years about your children then keep me out of it I will not be flexible on any situation I will not do anything extra for anyone ... if I wasn't here as back up how would you and he work out your schedule ... would you argue about it everyday or do what is needed? when you can decide what is best for your children give me a call back if you want to argue every point call him and settle it with him but I will not be available to anyone as a babysitter. If the two of you were still married ... how would you work about your schedules? would you adjust your schedules around the kids or the kids around your schedules? She called back a few days later and we settled any outstanding issues with regard to the kids. Seems to have done the trick... (for now).

TOS ... why didn't you invite him ... I am sure your divorce was amicable you don't pine over your ex.... you accepted he left and never said a negative thing about him to your children ... I can't see why he wouldn't come over and celebrate birthdays and holidays with you.

If people are miserable after divorce can you imagine how "happy" the marriage really was?

TOS, your ex doesn't spend that much time with children, I don't think they stay at his house at all or go on vacation together. So if he doesn't want to be a major part of their lives why would he want to share holidays with you and the kids? Plus if you do not get along with his wife, how would you all sit at the holiday table? I just don't get it.

Who says it is good for the kids? parents often assume that they know what is good for the kids. Most of the time they don't. My SO stayed in a miserable (for at least last 10 years) marriage because he thought he needs to do it for the kids. Forgave affairs etc begged her to stay until kids are grown etc. When divorce finally happened, his DDs told him that they knew how unhappy they were and how hard it was on them. All this time SO thought that because they don't fight loudly and don't yell they project a message of a happy family. Nope. Kids know the truth.

So when you will sit with your ex at a dinner table because supposedly it makes kids happy, they will know how miserable you all are, how much he doesn't want to be there and what kind of sacrifice you are making for their sake. It doesn't make anyone happy.

people end relationships because they don't want to be together. If they still want to be together, they would not get divorced.

FD,

Yes children know what is going on, but my DD still says she is extremely unhappy with divorce. Her life got turned upside down. She doesnt understand why we couldnt tough it out.

Kkny your ex didn't divorce your daughter, you divorced each other. How have you gone beyond your own bitterness and anger to help your daughter continue her relationship with her father in a healthy and constructive way?

Colleen, children's day to day lives get changed when divorce occurs. No two ways about it. And from my DD viewpoint, dad chose not to live wiht her. No two ways about it. He asked for divorce. He travels too much to have custody. He sees her even less now.

This isnt about me. Its about DD. I have tried to help relationship with her Dad. It doesnt help that DD resents that he had affair. It doesnt help that SO is mean and tells lies to DD.

Thank you all for the helpful comments. I would like to also clarify to TOS that seems to be Mom having the major holiday issues. The kids seem to be Ok as long as they in fact GET a holiday...hahaha. If the cake is there and the presents are there are good to go. Moms comments about "family time" just made me think and have a little guilt. The thing is they arn't a family anymore. They have children together but They "mom and dad" sadly are not a family. I think it is a little unfair to expect a parent to go at it alone. She made a decision to be with another man. Now she regrets it but he has moved on. He needed a friend, a partner to confide in and support with his girls. We ALL need companionship. I think if a parent is lonely and unhappy "like momma" they find it harder to be good parents to their children. I think as far as the holidays go things will get easier the more mom figures out that dad has moved on. She has already come to an agreement with us on Easter. We will have them Saturday and to the egg hunt easter basket thing at my parents and her and her boyfriend will get them Sunday for the big community egg hunt. The girls could care less wither way as long as they get to hunt eggs:) Plus there won't be any akward silences which makes for a happy Easter for all involved!!! I am really glad I found this forum. Thatnks again guys and gals!

As much as our kids might be sad about divorce it is not up to them to keep parents together, it is up to the parents to stay together or not. You can't pay me enough to "tough it out" and live with my ex again no matter what DD would feel. haha And no matter how much I love DD, i am not spending holidays with her dad. she is spending holidays with him, but I am elsewhere at that time enjoying myself and he does the same when DD is with me. lol Thank you very much!

Your DD is probably unhappy with the fact that he spends so very little time with her not necessarilly that he doesn't live with her. Was he a good involved father before divorce and then all of a sudden abandoned her? Does not sound right. If parents are involved while married they keep it the same way when they are divorced. Your ex's not spending enough time with her is probably very little to do with him divorcing you. SO remained as involved parent with his DDs as he was before divorce, nothing changed. I don't believe that good parents change so much all of a sudden.

A few more follow ups for specific folks....Organic Maria, I have ALREADY been labeled home wrecker by Bio-Mom...hahaha. Too late. I didn't even know her ex existed untill months and months after they had split. We have sat down and explained to the girls that mommy and daddy were ugly to each other and couldn't be good parents to them when they were together. They KNOW they fought because often mommy would yell at, cuss and sometimes hit daddy in front of them. We have reports to prove it. I think even tho' they are only four they sort of get it. Thank god they don't hate me. It would break my heart. I have been in the girls lives since they were two so I am like a second mother to them. So thanks Organic Maria for that advice...I'm right there with ya Also to The Other Side....thanks for your inside. It might help to know that momma got pregnant and thats why the marriage accured. Never a good reason to get married....getting preggers. Dad wanted to "do whats right" but sometimes it backfires on us like an ole' jallopy. Mom is diagnosed mentally unstable and was very very VERY difficult to actually live with. What the girls and dad went through was worse than the obvious to come divorce. Watching your parents try to kill each other (literally) is never a good thing for the kiddies. Some folks find they are toxic to each other and bring out the worst. I am with you on staying married is the best thing but real world dictates that can't always happen. Maybe get to know who you are marrying better BEFORE would be a better solution. Who knows. All I know is here we all are and we are just trying to do whats best for our kids....thats right OUR kids, in the meantime. It takes a village afterall.

I'm confused Fine Drems. Who are you talking about. The marriage was volatile and nasty way before they actually divorced. He has no desire to spend Holidays with Bio mom. Its her trying to guilt us into thinking we should "for the kids" but it is her that wants to be around daddy. We are very happy to do our own thing with the girls during the holidays. I was a little confused to what you were trying to say. Is dad hung up on biomom? No. If thats what you were asking. He is still a very good daddy. He is also very involved with his children...we have them. He just wants us to have our own traditions now and I think biomom is having trouble dealing. It's just hard NOT to have your own traditions when you live with the kids, you know?

I was replying to KKNY (see subject line), it was about her reference to her marriage and her ex and her daughter, and just a general observation of divorced situation, not about your family. sorry for confusion

I do believe that last comment you made was intended for TOS and now....after I posted a silly reply, I have put two and two together:) I am new to the whole forum thing and have to get used to everyone responded to each other and not the original post...hahahaha. I am such a ding bat. It's the daily grind that muddles your brain to the point of none function, I swear......Anyway, thanks for the OTHER helpful comments you sent ME earlier. Have a great day!

I dont think X was a great father before divorce, but divorce made it much worse.

"And if "nesting" were encouraged, where the kids stay put in the house and the parents come and go, there would even be a convenient location in which to share holidays."

I am very open with my teenage stepdaughters and we can talk about anything. On a previous post (quite a long time ago) TOS spoke about this placement scenerio and I asked the girls what they thought - both thought it was a crazy idea... Their reasoning? (1) if their parents could share a household for their benefit, then why get a divorce?; (2) where would I live? (LOL!); and (3) what's the big deal if they live full-time with their dad and stepmom - it's their home. However, it should also be noted that both girls (ages 14 and 15) are completely against one week with mom and one week with dad (they have never had this kind of placement but both have friends who go back and forth between homes). They feel that there isn't enough stability with that kind of placement (i.e., different rules at different homes; which place would be "their" home (their friends who have this placement say I'm staying at "mom's house" or "dad's house" but they never refer to it has "their home," etc.)...

I agree with your views on "nesting" If my boyfriend and his ex (biomom) tried this I am sure one of them would wind up baried UNDER the nest. They would fight over where to leave the can opener and who should replace the paper towels each week. If you could live together you surely wouldn't have gone throught the painful process of divorce and put your childern through the unnecessary stress. The girls would be more traumatized by the constant fighting. When I speak to them about the divorce (they're four year old twins) the thing the ask the most isn't why doesn't mommy and daddy live together, or why don't they love each other....it's why do they fight? They don't really care if they arn't together as long as they arn't acting like animals towards each other. Beings that they were only two when daddy and biomom seperated they don't really remember the "togetherness" only the fighting that took place during the seperation. Nesting would bring out the ugly and thats what hurts the kids in these cases the most.

I think 'nesting' might work if done during the divorce process but long term, it would cause more problems than it could ever solve. My sister just announced that she's divorcing her husband of 21 years, they've been together for 28 years and have had four children, including one that died. Only they know the details of why they would walk away after almost three decades, but there have been no allegations of adultery, physical or substance abuse. They are both still living in the house and neither wants to leave. It's their own version of 'war of the roses'. My sister's husband has been locking her out of her room so she has gone to stay at a girlfriends the other night. When she came home, the house was trashed. Then there was a fight over leaving dirty dishes or a mess. I can't imagine them being forced to share the house.

They started out saying they were going to have an amicable divorce. Then she found out he cashed out his 401k and paid off all his individual credit cards. They don't have any joint credit cards but all were obtained during the marriage so all are community property. Then, they were going to do everything by agreement and she found out that he bad been talking to a lawyer. They can have an amicable divorce is she rolls over and lets him have things his way. He wants to keep everything because he feels that he's worked for it. She has worked but stayed home taking care of the house and kids too. I don't really believe that divorce is ever 'amicable'. Perhaps if you get married and within a short time, both sides agree it was a mistake, then maybe.

I don't think you can cash out your 401K without your spouse's permission - I know you can't in my state, because my exH wanted to but needed my permission. My lawyer strongly advised against it.

We did the nesting thing for a couple of months, and it was wonderful for the children. They loved having him there to read them bedtime stories, etc. Then the OW decided it was "inappropriate" for him to visit the children in our home.

He is welcome to come to any of the children's birthday celebrations (I can't afford anything except small family parties). He came to one because our child begged him to, and it was fine.

I never said anything about inviting either parent's new spouse/SO to birthday parties. Unless that is ok with everyone involved, I think that is a bad idea.

Finedreams,
"If parents are involved while married they keep it the same way when they are divorced.

That is by no means always true. My H WAS a good, involved father when we were married. All that changed fairly quickly after he left.

BTW, my kids were floored when their father moved out. Even the adult/nearly adult ones. All of them (except for the one who wasn't talking yet, of course) independently said over and over that they had absolutely no idea that divorce was even a remote possibility.

TOS said:

"Finedreams,
"If parents are involved while married they keep it the same way when they are divorced.

That is by no means always true. My H WAS a good, involved father when we were married. All that changed fairly quickly after he left."

I agree with it, but it's the parent's choice to become uninvolved. My SD's mom was very involved with her when I met DH and over time, she's lost interest in seeing/talking to her like she used to. I've noticed that some bad parents can become good parents when they get together with the right person that is into parenting and the new partner motivates them to see their kids and be involved. Then there are involved parents that lose interest in their kids when they get into a relationship and it's more convenient to not have the kids around. Then when that relationship dissolves, they want to go back to being super parent again. and the kids are the ones paying for it. Either way, theotherside, your husband has chosen to be less involved. Whether his wife encourages him or discourages him, it's still his choice He's the parent and he's the one with the obligation and past history. I'm sure a new partner can be a bad influence on the parent, but the parent is the one that chooses to be with the bad influence.

J (daddy) is actually more involved since the divorce mainly because he's no longer on the road. He played in bands for ten years and stayed gone on tours alot when the girls were infants. He has them all the time now.

As far as the holidays go, Bio mom didn't want me there which to him suggested she wanted HIM there for all the wrong reasons....not for the girls but for her. He didn't think it fair to ditch me every holiday to go hang with his ex. He's right. It's not. I have family also that the girls have gotten to know and love. I have nephews around their age they like to hang with. The girls enjoy holidays over at my parents house.

J also told Biomom (the last time she threw a fit because we wouldn't all come to her house to open presents Christmas morning) that if I ever DID get pregnant that I wouldn't want to drag my child to his ex's house for every special occasion. He had a good point there. I hadn't even thought about that.

Bio Mom had a melt down and the mere thought of me getting pregnant and told us we could have the girls for Christmas. Just like she did for Halloween and Thanksgiving. If J wasn't going to be there to play family she acted like she didn't want them. It was kindof like, "Oh. You're not coming. Well never mind then...you guys keep em'".

We finally broke ground for this Easter though. J and I are going to an Easter Egg hunt and give them their baskets saturday morning and then Biomom is getting them Saturday night and taking them to the big community egg hunt Sunday afternoon. No big blow ups. No fits. NO screaming or crying. I'm hoping she has finally got it.

As I read this post I almost fell out of my chair!! The idea that people should never date/remarry because of kids holidays? The idea that people should never divorce because of holidays? And sharing holidays after divorce?

If people got along so well divorce probably would never have happened! And I know quite a few people who remarried and their family life is successful. This whole idea that people should not move on with their lives because they have kids is just silly. You can be a good parent to your child and also move on with your life after a divorce. Your not any better of a parent just because instead of dating/remarrying you sit around drilling your kids about your ex and his new SO and playing the victim role. And plenty of people who began dating after their children were in college ran into just as many, if not more problems than those who began dating again while their children are young. I personally have seen more success in those who begin the relationship while their children are younger.

Sometimes I come on this forum for a good giggle :P

that's so true mom2emall. My DH stands a snowballs chance in hell of getting my kids to be as receptive as his daughter is to me.

My kids were teenagers when we met and they did not want a step dad. They have gotten used to it but don't 'like' him. They are learning to be respectful (because I make them) but unfortunately, best case scenario is that they will someday realize that their lives are better because he's in my life. Even if it's only a financial benefit to them. He's already helped my older son get a car. He has also offered to do things with them, teach them how to work on a car or use tools... they didn't have a father in their lives to do those things with. (my older son did when he was small, but since he was 11, his dad left him)

However, his daughter was 5 when I met him. She liked the idea of us getting married until her mom flipped out over it and then she decided she didn't want a step mom. But, she's been much easier to take places & have fun with and build a relationship with. She doesn't want to like me because her mom doesn't like me but she also has fun with me so even though there is a loyalty conflict there, she's open to having fun with me.

My husband is out of luck if he tried to tell one of my teenager, "c'mon, let's go to the park for an hour.". So, it's true that waiting until your kids are adults is not a good plan. Especially if they get used to you being alone and having your full attention. Then they see you with someone and might not like it. (and grown kids are more aware of sexual relationships & that really bothers them sometimes)

"You can be a good parent to your child and also move on with your life after a divorce."

It is very difficult to be as good a parent to your child as you would have been had you remained single. You can disagree with me all you want, but I have come to that conclusion based on everything I have read here and elsewhere, as well as what I have observed in RL.

I think I have moved on, but that doesnt mean I have to have a man in my life. Like I say, a woman without a man is like a fish without a bycicle.

"It is very difficult to be as good a parent to your child as you would have been had you remained single. You can disagree with me all you want, but I have come to that conclusion based on everything I have read here"

I can agree with this to an extent. My SD's BM was a better parent before she met her BF and made him a priority. But then again, in justnotmartha's case, the BM is better now that she's with her new DH. It really can go either way. Your exH has made his wife (or even her money) a higher priority than his relationship with his kids. He might have gotten together with someone that loves kids and wanted your exH to see his kids. Personally, I wouldn't have dated someone that didn't see or support their kids.

If you think it would be difficult to be a good parent to your child unless you remain single, you must not have much faith in your ability to stand your ground and not let someone interfere with you parenting your children. Or do you think if you meet someone, that you will have to choose him over your children? If you want to be a good parent, you will be a good parent no matter who you are with.

No, I don't want to have to worry about someone else thinking he has the right to have any input into how my kids are raised, what they are doing, where they live, where they go to college, how much money I spend on them (not that it is that much anyway), how much time I spend with them, what activities they are in, or any of a thousand different things. I have plenty of faith in my ability to stand my ground. I just don't have any unrealistic expectations about there being many men out there who wouldn't want to interfere. Plus, from what I have seen, the majority of men (though fortunately not my exH) are jealous of the attention and time their wives spend even on their joint biological children, much less children that aren't theirs. And then there is the disturbingly high number of boyfriends/SF's who sexually assault their SO's teenage (or even younger) daughters.

my own Dh was jealous of the attention i was giving to our son. At first i was like,,,,is this for real? What a baby! Then i told him off:)
He would say things like, oh you dont let me touch you anymore. He gets to touch you. For crying out loud! I was breast feeding ! Andyes , they hurt when they were full! I told him how would you feel if your testicals were in a vise ready to explode waiting for them to be relieved!? Breastfeeding is not a chore! Its draining!
Anyways, it took alooooong time for him to get over the attention thing with our son. I told him one day, i dont do this when your kids come over. In fact i give you room and space, and sometime i go to work so you can have alone time with them. I dont get jealous when you spend time with your daughter! Grow up!
I do understand about staying alone when having kids. You avoid all the drama! But sometimes, you just fall in love.
In my culture, we dont believe in divorce unless the person is abusive. If its just argueing..get over it and deal withthe responsibilities of your life and kids.

On an interesting note, I read a study yesterday that said that 65 percent of second marriages in the USA end in divorce. I question the number but that seems amazingly high.

Particulary when the study goes on to say that only 18 percent of second marriages in Canada end in divorce. I know the USA has a higher divorce rate overall, but I cant imagine why there would be such a huge difference in two countries that are culturally very similar.

I wonder which category husband and I fall into. He is American, I am Canadian. We were married in Canada and lived here the first few years of our marriage. We now live in the USA. Maybe we could split the statistical difference, lol.

I cant imagine anything much worse than dragging kids through a second divorce.

"I think I have moved on, but that doesnt mean I have to have a man in my life."

I agree. One doesn't need a man in their life in order to achieve fullfilment and/or happiness (I also believe that this should be stressed to young girls). Of course, I also believe that if a great guy happens along and he adds additional enjoyment and companionship (to both you and your daughter), then more power to you!!