"because he is their father and if the movies don't have pornography in them then violence and profanity are fine and they're watching them with him - his words"

Could you clarify this for me - are you saying that when they are watching an R rated movie with their father, that he has specifically given them permission to watch, you come in and tell them to leave or turn off the tv? Or are you saying that if he is not home and they want to watch an R rated movie that they have not yet seen, you tell them they need to ask their father first?

No I am saying that at their age they should not be watching any movie that has an age restriction that is above their age. I mean that they and 8 & 9 year old boys, they should not be watching a movie that has a 16 age restriction. Yes, if the movie is on that has that age restriction and both they and their father knows the rules, I will tell them to change the channel. Are you saying that its ok for children their age to watch such kinds of movies?

I don't know about South Africa, but in the United States in order to see R-rated movies in the theater you have to be accompanied by parent or guardian if you are under 17. Our local libraries will allow children to check out DVD's that are R-rated, the assumption being if their parents didn't want them to check them out, they shouldn't let them go to the library alone.

I don't think it is appropriate for you to override their father's decision. I wouldn't have let my kids watch most R-rated movies at that age, but that is irrelevant.

New rule ... if daddy isn't home you can't watch those movies end of story .... if you have a problem with it take it up with daddy.....

Tell hubby when they start re-enacting those scenes in the movies at school or elsewhere he can receive the phone call from the school officials or other parents.

You will not get any usable/useful advice from certain posters you will be able to decipher those posts rather quickly. You will hear you should not contradict the dad... bull****. But I will say you should not in front of the kids ...

Not sure of your culture and what is expected and not expected of a wife. But if he decides to do something you don't like can you walk away ... go read a book, or when they come running to you send them to their dad.

Most of the SM's will have useful advice for you if you do not agree with someone ignore them ... they are here to pick a fight with people trying to make a difference in a child's life.....

theotherside : I understand what you're saying, but that's a small part of the problem. In South Africa the rules are a lot more strict. if the kids are that small they won't let them into the movie at all.

But that is just a small part of it. What about everything else?

She doesn't care how the children react to you ... you do not agree with the dad .... end of story for her.

You are just a SM you have no right to an opinion on how someone should raise children since you are not the mother you should just sit mute in the corner thats it.

Ignore her.

Well, Estelle, I'm from Australia and I'm with you on this one. Yes, children need boundaries. In my opinion you are entirely within your rights to require the children (and anyone who comes to your house) behave in a civilised manner, not jump on the furniture, not dump their stuff all over the house, not take things without having asked, etc. Not to teach them these things is to do them (and their mother's memory) a grave disservice, because they will be thoroughly unpleasant people when they go out into the world and get a huge shock when they learn the rest of the world will not cater to them and let them do as they please.
While I also don't think they should be watching R rated movies, if Dad's there you're on a hiding to nothing demanding they not watch. Perhaps in a good moment you should suggest to your husband that if he, as an informed adult, wants to watch this type of movie he do so when the children aren't around. If he is as God-fearing as you say he is, ask: Would you allow your sons to watch these movies (and watch them yourself) if your pastor was in the room? I'd hope not.
What't the Bible quote about "Train a child up in the right ways; when he is a man he will not depart from them"? Right now your husband is training his sons to think the world owes them something.

Clearly, you and your husband have different parenting styles and different values. To make this work, children or no children, you'll have to sit and talk with your husband about what these differences are and find out if they are reconcilable differences or not. If they are reconcilable, you'll have to come up with agreements about how you will raise the kids. Either in one long sitting, going through every scenario you can think of (age-restricted movies, jumping on couches, cleaning up after oneself, etc.) or impromptu private discussions as soon as possible after the next incident occurs (or, preferably, before it occurs). For example, you might say "They can watch age-restricted movies if I've watched them first and it's only some swearing or something insignificant"; or "If they jump on the couch and tear the fabric, they will have to do chores to pay off the cost of having it repaired"; or "physically harm your child (or ANY child) if you insist, but the next time you do I will call the police"...

If you can't reach an agreement on a given behavior, you have several options:

-If it's not that big a deal (and you two agree on most everything else), you can let this one go and let Dad have his way

-If it's a huge deal to you, you can come up with the compromise Cawfe suggests, which is to follow your way if Dad isn't around (if you and Dad have agreed on doing this prior) and let them have their way when Dad isn't around

-If you find that there are too many things you can't reach agreements on, it may just mean you have irreconcilable differences in parenting styles and overall values, in which case I would question whether it's worth staying married. (Of course, I would have questioned that the first time he hit one of his children, but that's just me.)

Hi Colleen & Serenity,

Thank you for your inputs. I appreciate your help.

I agree with what you say, the only problem is that hubby doesn't want to listen or really talk about these issues with me.

He allows them to build up in him and explode like he did yesterday morning.

The children are NOT rascals. They're good-natured boys who have the usual naughty disobedient streak in them as all children do.

My problem is that my husband interferes whenever I discipline them. If I shout he wants to know why. If I scold or give them a reprimand he's there to defend them.

At the end of the day he asks them if they enjoy it when Mummy & Daddy fight, to which their obvious answer is No.
But there wouldn't have been a fight in the first place if he had just shut up and left well enough alone. Why guilt-trip the boys when your actions are whats upsetting everyone. Then at the end of it all, I'm the one that's at fault because I nag the boys.

When I try to talk about it like civilised adults, he gets on the defensive, and then tears appear because I didn't give birth to them so I don't feel for them. I don't understand what he went through when their mother died and he had to bring them up, the hardships that he experienced and now I want to come and put the fear of God in them so that they're scared to be "free" in their own house.

The boys respond to me because I set their boundaries. I don't fall apart and give into them the minute they moan or shed a tear and change my decision. My yes's are yes and my no's are no. He can't do that. He wants to bend to their every whim and fancy.

" I didn't give birth to them so I don't feel for them"
Tell that to Mother Teresa. Clearly, you do feel for them, because you don't want them to grow up to be a bunch of unruly yahoos who can't be let loose into civilised society.

Being "free" in one's own house is not the freedom to destroy the appointments the homeowners (parents) work hard to purchase and maintain. Being "free" is not the freedom to leave your mess behind for others to deal with or put up with.

Kids secretly crave boundaries (as you have found). They need to know, "What is acceptable behaviour?" They like to push the boundaries to find out where behaviour crosses the line into unacceptable, and if they never get that feedback they may well keep getting more and more outrageous until there's no living with them. What a horrible disservice to do to your children, to let them get to that point.

Obviously I wouldn't advocate running the place like a gulag, there's a lot of freedom the kids can have while learning the skills they will need to mesh into adult society in a happy way.

Don't bend, it sets them up for horrible disappointment when they get out into the real world and find that employers, uni lecturers, police and the like are not going to give in however much they whine.

You need to have a house meeting and decide on some basic house rules. Everyone agree. Write them on a piece of card and stick it up where everyone can see it. Agree on suitable punishments for infractions (eg, make a mess in the lounge room, no TV for the rest of the day). Agree with your husband that you BOTH need to be on the same page. When you are pulling up the boys for breaking the rules, he needs to butt out unless he is supporting you, and vice versa. When the agreed on rules are being broken, no reneging on the punishment (eg if Johnny made a mess in the lounge, Dad can't say, Oh, that's OK, Mum will tidy it up tomorrow.) Review the rules regularly. Add, delete or amend as necessary.

Maybe have a house meeting every week where each person (kids included) can say how well or how badly they think things are working. Do so without shouting. Take turns. Give reasons and offer solutions - don't just say, "I hate dinner" , say - "I hate having dinner at 6pm because I'd like to be able to watch my favourite TV show. Could we have dinner at 6.30 instead?" Maybe, or maybe other family members have stronger reasons to prefer 6pm. Or maybe compromise and have dinner at 6pm some nights and 6.30pm others. This is just a random example. One person doesn't have to get his/her way ALL the time :-)

I can understand the boys wanting to jump on the furniture, I think it's a testosterone thing :-) but they should be channelled to take all that loose energy and dissipate it outside where they can't wreck stuff....

Thanks Colleen,

I need to try the house meeting. Its something that's suggested by a few people now. I just hope that my husband and sons see it as a serious thing and follow what is instituted. My husband tends to be a rule-bender when it suits him.

When punishment is metered out, he'll stick to it for a short while and then its forgotten and when I remind him that there's a punishment, he gets upset because you can't run it like a prison. He's even told me I'll make a good prison warden.

"Its now erupted just this morning into an enormous fight in which he hit both the younger boys simply to show me a point because I apparently like it when they get a hiding."

This is abuse, & it has to be stopped.

Regardless of what he *says*, he's filled with rage, & he's determined to have his own contrary way (& it has to be contrary, or it isn't really exercising control), & he uses violence & the threat of violence to intimidate & control.

The only hope I can see is counselling, & I'd find a professional, not a pastoral counsellor;
pastoral counsellors typically have no training in abusive behaviors & relationships.

They often try to make Biblical methods work, even for violent, abusive people, & they don't work with abusers-
they were intended for the vast majority of people, not for men who beat up the women & children.

I'd find a professional counsellor with experience in abusive relationships;
maybe a women's shelter can recommend someone.

I wish you the best.

agree with sylvia re counseling:
a colleague of mine is in emotionally abusive marriage, husband abuses her, doesn't help and is not a good father either. she insisted on counseling, he agreed if it is only religion based patoral counseling. and what do you think happens now? no matter what she complains about in therapy all she gets is: you made a promise to each other, you have to stick together and you have to pray and go to church and it will get better. well it is not getting better. i have nothing against relgion but in marital issues religion based counseling is not helpful and sometimes damaging.

Go to counseling with your husband!!! It is obviously not about the kids, it is between your relationship with your husband.

I have the same problem right now...well, my husband is not a widow. I have a 17 year old SD and she is acting up....but not THAT bad...I think it is just her age. When I try to put some boundaries my husband thinks I am being cruel to her. I just think that men in general do not understand that children need, require, ask for boundaries and rules. Men see that as limiting them and women see that as RAISING them WELL.

I think that counseling is the only way to go from here...

Estellecm,

You mention you are 28 and the boys with the troublesome behavior are 9 & 8. If I have my math right, this means you were about 24 or 25 when you got married, and the 2 youger boys were only 6 & 5 or thereabouts...is this correct?

You wrote that your husband's wife, the boys' mother, died. What were the circumstances of her death? Was it sudden? Did she have a chronic illness where she lingered before passing? How long after her death did you meet? How long was your courtship? Had he dated anyone else prior to your relationship?

I'm curious if some of these things might impact what is happening in your family now?

Hi wrychoice,

The boys' mother died 6 days after the birth of the youngest boy. She haemorraged. The older boy was just over 1yr old.

Neither really knew their mother although we try to keep the memory of her alive for them in small ways, and their older brother has told them about her.

I met my husband about 2 years after her death. Yes he did date other women prior to me. We were together for about 4 years before we decided to get married.

I married at 26, and December this year will mark 3 years of marriage, thats if we make it there.

Hitting his kids just to prove a point is stupid. And then trying to use them to manipulate the situation is him saying he knows he's wrong but as long as the boys say what he wishes he is right. He needs help. Those boys were so young when she past the only one who remembers her is him. Regardless of what you all try to keep alive. You are the only mom they have known. Your hubby needs to realize that or realize that can change quickly. I don't really know what I would do if my hubby treated me like that. Yours is miss treating you. I guess if it was me and he didnt do some changing I would walk. It is hard enough to take care of someone elses children I couldnt imagine trying to do it with out the support of there father. I am a BM and a SM so I know what you mean. I treat all my kids the exact same. I wish you lots of luck and for God to give you the strengh and grace you need to get through this. Just remember be careful what you say to hubby. Sounds like it could turn bad for you quickly. You two need to discusse this when the kids are not arround so he cant use them to make him self look right as he is not.

The poor boys, to lose their mother when they were infants. I can't imagine how awful it must have been for the one year old, since almost all babies that age are very attached to their mothers, or for a newborn who has just spent nine months soothed by his mother's heartbeat.

Hi Lori,

Thank you for your response.

That is what I keep telling my husband, the boys don't know their mother because they have no memory or recollection of her, and all that he's feeling is guilty. At one point I got so upset with him that I asked him if he murdered her that he feels so guilty.

I'm trying my best and its awful when your husband treats you like you're the enemy. We've been sleeping in the same bed, but as far apart as possible.

We talk only if its necessary and of things regarding the business. Nothing personal, nothing intimate. He hasn't touched me for three days now. No good morning peck, no good-bye kiss, no contact at all. Its like I have the plague and I am certainly not going to make the first move and go to him. I'll play his game, his way. He'll have to be the one to give in first. Its just getting a little too much now.

Estellecm,

If I have my math right, your DH was probably 20-21 years old when his oldest son was born. I am assuming that his deceased wife was that boy's mother, along with the younger two boys. One could assume that he met his first wife when he was maybe 18 or 19 years old --- not much older than his oldest son is now.

His wife died VERY suddenly, during an event that should have been full of nothing but joy, the birth of his third child. He was unexpectedly left a widower with three children...a newborn and another child, not yet a toddler. His oldest son could not have been much older than the middle son is now.

This is a lot for one person to handle. I suspect your DH was so busy trying to care for his boys, he may not have had the time or opportunity to grieve for the loss of his wife. He is telling you as much when he says "You don't know what I went through."

What time of year did she die? When is the youngest son's birthday? I cannot imagine what that must be like for him...on the one hand, you would want to celebrate the birth of your baby; on the other hand, it would also mark the anniversary of the death of your wife. This cannot be easy for him. He may feel some responsibility for her death, irrational as that may be...if he hadn't gotten her pregnant, she wouldn't have gone through labor, she wouldn't have hemorrhaged, and she'd still be alive.

Posttraumatic Stress is called "post" for a reason; someone can be symptom free for a very long time before something in the environment triggers recall of the trauma; you wrote you will try to talk to him like civilized adults and then "the tears appear." The first criteria in considering a diagnosis of PTSD is "the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others." Another symptom of PTSD is "irritability or outbursts of anger." Another symptom of PTSD is a "sense of a foreshortened future." Why discipline your kids if life is short? What is the harm in letting your kids watch movies rated for 16 year olds? None of us is going to live forever, afterall.

His wife bled to death during childbirth.

I do not know if your husband ever sought out professional help (or even a support group) following his wife's death. He was probably in shock, functioning just enough to provide minimal care for himself and his children; he may have been too busy just trying to survive.

Now may be the time for him to explore what the impact of the death of his wife has been. At some level, he has to re-live the trauma of her death every year at his baby boy's birthday. For the sake of his children, his marriage and his own, I hope he will put his big boy panties on and go get help in learning more healthy ways to regulate his emotions.

I hope you can help him in this healing process.

Hi wrychoice,

I guess that you may be right. About one year into our relationship I experienced a lot of discord and unhappiness with my then "boyfriend" and approached him about that fact that he was not yet over the death of his wife. He swore up and down that he was, but I was well aware that he hadn't realised that he hadn't really dealt with it and "gotten over" it, if I can put it that way.

He didn't listen to me when I told him he needed help and eventually things became so bad that I broke-off our relationship. At that point I believe he had a wake-up call. He sought counselling and the counsellor told him exactly what I had been telling him for months, but at least this time he listened.

Thats when I experienced an entire turn-around in him. He became a new man almost. He was more light-hearted and relaxed. More open and honest. He called me up about two months later saying that he knew what he wanted and that I was right about everything and as he continues to seek help, would I please "wait" for him - because he loved me and the thought of having lost me was more than he could handle. (Bear in mind that I was not his first relationship after his wife's death, I was his fourth).

Anyway, I couldn't promise him anything for obvious reasons. Finally about 2 months after that conversation, he came back and proposed. We were engaged for 2 years before we finally married.

I do understand that the circumstances he was faced with were difficult and arduous. My husband's history with his first wife wasn't very good either because they were both way too young, and were also having a baby. She was 16 when she fell pregnant and therefore they had to get married.

So Wry, there are many different factors weighing into this equation and may you're right, maybe its all just catching up with him now. I just hope and pray that he gets a hold of his emotions and opens up to me so that we can work through it together. I just need him to stop treating me like the enemy.

However, they were together for 8 years and then decided to have to have two more children.

I am not sure you ever get over the death of your wife, especially when she was so young and the death was associated with something that should, as wrychoice pointed out, be such a happy occasion.

i have to agree with TOS that even if they had to marry just because she was pregnant, but they did stay together and in fact had more children later which makes me to believe that they had a happy marriage that ended in tragedy and it might take him longer to get over it.
i don't necessarilly believe that if people have to get married due to pregnancy, their marriage is not good or is not as serious as if they would not be pregnant. My brother had to marry his wife because she got pregnant otherwise they would probably wait few years. they were happilly married almost 20 years and have two kids. In fact my mother was pregnant with me when they got married. My parents are happilly married for 43 years. etc. Circusmstances of marriage might be different but i would not make conclusions that young age or pregnancy make marriage any less important. and it doesn't make it easier to get over death of your spouse because she was young or was pregnant.

There are ways to discipline children and enforce limits that don't involve yelling, hitting or cruelty of any kind. Now those methods require a great deal of thought, creativity and consistency -- but they're possible.

One such philosophy is 'natural consequences' -- in other words, the result of misbehavior is the natural consequences of those actions. If a child is mean to another child - say the 9 year old bullies the 8 year old - you would calmly say to the 9 year old "Since you weren't kind to your brother, he won't be able to play with you now. He and I are going to do something else." (something fun that both boys would love to do). For jumping on the couch, you could simply say that the couch was expensive and you can't allow it to be damaged, and move it to a room that is 'off limits'. Or not allow them to use the couch at all "untill they can treat it properly." -- The key is to be logical, reasonable, explain why the behavior is bad and that the unpleasant consequence is the 'natural and inevitable result of their behavior.' (You're not punishing them - their own behavior caused the consequence.)

Think of it as 'guiding and teaching' and never as 'punishment'.

There was a wonderful quote once (English, I think) by a gentleman who compared a parent's "Let the child run free" parenting approach to allowing his garden to run wild for a year - and of course, at the end of the year, the garden was overgrown with weeds and a real mess. Wonder if you could find that quote and show it to Hubby??

I am very sorry you are having these difficulties, i took the time to read all of your input and the responses. Although our circumstances are similar we also have many differences, unfortunatly things are now (after 12 years) at an all time low. I took my step kids in as though they were my own and i faced the same complaints as you, practically identical. the only advice i can give you is 1. start documenting so that you don't feel like you are going crazy
2. seek out a councilor especially dedicated to blended or step families
3. if you are not satisfied with couples council do it on your own.

Today i feel completely unappreciated for my 100 % effort. in providing a predictable, consistent and loving home. where at times there is disapproval and raised voises.
the conditions you describe are the same as what i experienced, and it only got worse!!! In such a gradual way, today i am very unhappy, i have told my spouse i have had enough, and he is still in the dark, thinking a kiss, or a long talk will fix everything. but he is not willing to make any changes. Please seek council for you and as a couple. you are still so young!
There is so much love out there, if this doesn't work i am sure you will do alright

Was this original post about dealing with differences in disciplinary tactics are about how fast a spouse gets over the death of a spouse?

Some posters just seem to pick the bits and pieces they want to dwell on and never really offer any helpful imput but rather keep trying to drive their point home. Which, coincidentally never has NOTHING to do with the original post. It almost ALWAYS ,however, has negative undertones if the origial poster is a Step with an issue regarding a Bio.

Just an observation.

I think the circumstances surrounding the death of his spouse has a lot to do with the issues the OP is discussing. This is far deeper than merely a difference in disciplinary tactics.

Hi Pamela,

I know exactly how you feel. Thankfully for me, my husband came to his senses on Thursday night and I know that it was just because of God.

I prayed on Thursday morning while in the shower and reminded the Lord that He had put me together with this man. He was the one that confirmed that this was the man that He wanted me to marry. So I simply told Him that I am not willing to put up with the silent treatment anymore and I'm not willing to live like we're strangers. I told Him that this was His problem and He must sort it out.

And, the Lord is always true to His Word. He said that we should cast our cares upon Him. On Thursday evening when I got home, my husband was a different man. This entire weekend its been like he can't get enough time with me. He's been loving and caring etc. I even got an sms a little while ago saying that he can't believe how much he loves me and he's so thankful that I am in his and the boys' lives.

If that's not God, then I don't know what is. This doesn't mean that everything's been swept under the carpet and forgotten. It just means that the Lord dealt with my husband and opened his eyes to the fact that I am not the enemy and I don't need to be in this marriage with him, but rather that I chose to love him and the boys. It just gives us an open forum to talk about these issues without biting each others' heads off.

My God is so good and I can't help but to praise Him. Sometimes the simplest answers are the right ones. My husband and I will be discussing these issues and we will do so in a civil manner and we will both listen to each other, and there will be a resolution.