She needs to move.

The other roommates won't get involved, she's miserable, & it won't get better, it'll get worse.

In a perfect world, G's parents would think like you and stop paying for college if their daughter was creating such a problem there. In the real world, I think it's more likely they will defend her (she may be their pride & joy) unless she's had problems like this in the past. But you are right to have concerns over how your daughter will be treated once that can of worms is open. Perhaps having a 'get together' potluck with ALL of the kids' parents (sort of like a family meeting) so they can all discuss the problem. They may even adopt a rule of no smoking in the house and address it to EVERYONE, not just G. That way, she won't be singled out as the target of everyone's frustration and feel defensive. when she sees that the whole group has agreed on certain behavior, then perhaps she will adhere to the rules better. Then, if she doesn't, it wouldn't be out of line to contact her parents (assuming they go to the meeting) and say 'G really isn't following the rules of the house and we'd like you help in this'.

Ok, I have had lots of roommates, although only one at a time. There is really nothing to do but work things out between roommates or move out. It sounds like she has tried all she can do towards working things out, so it's time to move. She has already done the things she could do to try to work things out. She talked to G, nothing changed. She talked to the other roommates, they won't support her, nothing changed. As a practical matter, you simply can't force someone else to change the way they live.

Is there a lease? Is DD's name on it? What is her legal obligation to this living arrangement?

If she is in a college area where young people in group homes is more or less the norm, she can certainly find a different group to live with. She's already done what she can to try to improve her current situation; if she's miserable, it's time to leave. It's theoretically possible that once she takes the actual step to find another place, some of the other roommates will come around and take her side against G, or decide to join her in looking for a new place, but she shouldn't count on it.

She may not want to move because some or all of the other girls are her friends, but she will simply have to choose whether it's better to live with acquaintances in a pleasant environment, or friends in the environment she has now.

Oh, and she should have the "lifestyles" discussion before she moves into a new place. If finds an already established group (perhaps looking to replace their own G), it should be possible to see how they are living now and if she would fit into and be happy in that arrangement, but regardless of if she finds an existing or starts a new group, the conversation needs to be had before everyone agrees to live together. Don't make the decision who to live with and *then* try to establish ground rules for cleanliness or noise or whatever... as I said before, as a practical matter, you can't force someone to change their lifestyle, so when living with roommates it is crucial to select ones with lifestyles compatible with your own.

Moving out would be the simple way to solve the problem, but I thought part of college life is learning how to get along in the world. (including difficult people) The other room mates should speak up, and it's unfair that one person can ruin a harmonious situation for all the others. Moving is expensive and if anyone should leave, it should be G. Of course, it if can't be resolved and G won't leave, then sure I wouldn't keep my daughter in that situation either. But as kkny points out, there may be a lease. Breaking a lease could be expensive and finding good room mates isn't always easy.

I agree with everyone and I think getting the parents involved in this situation is a disaster waiting to happen.

This is a good life lesson for DD to learn how to deal with difficult people. Becuase she isn't getting the results she wants, she should not learn to have her parents deal with it for her. If she can't make it work, and it sounds like she has tried, than she needs to move out

Are they renting a house together? If so, maybe it would say on renting agreement whether smoking is permitted in the house. Maybe have have your DD or you call the police, anonymously of course, and complain about the loud music at that residence. Can she talk to the land lord about these issues to see if G is breaking any rules of the lease. Unfortunetly, if there is a lease with a standard year long term she would still have to pay the rent even if she moved out. I wouldn't talk to G's parents about the issues. They will most likely become defenssive and rude if you do. No one wants to hear bad things about their children coming from an outsider. And it cause the living situation to become worst for your DD. What an unfortunate situation for your daughter as her first experience living outside of a parents home. I wish the best of luck to you all!!

Sure, in a perfect world the other roommates should speak up and G should be the one who has to move out, but finedreams DD has already tried that route and it has been unsuccessful. Getting along with difficult people is one thing-- working with or socializing with someone you don't like is something people should be able to do; living with someone who makes you miserable something entirely different.

thanks everybody. Great ideas. let me see them all.

I also think that G won't change. It actually got worse over the year.

Just to clarify DD cannot move out on her own.

DD can live with other kids, with any of them, one or two or three. It is not affordable though. DD attends University of London. She cannot afford to live with one or two people. Not only with sky rocketing price of rent but also cost of living in London even with the most frugal existance is one of the most expensive in the world. her current living arrangement is very affordable and it is a safe area which is very important.

Lease isn't a problem, they plan on getting better place and moving anyways, all of them. I wish they gave ultimatum to G, I wish they just leave her to be on her own. But they won't! They try to ignore. DD can't.

Meeting with all together including parents won't work. All kids are from different places (they knew each other prior to settling together but they never lived together). I think two kids have one of the parents living in UK. Other than that, it is not going to happen. I live in the US, obviously, my X lives in Europe but not in UK, few hours flight from UK, but still.... Similar with other kids, at least few hours flight and way more for me. people won't get all together. So this won't work.

yes, they renting a large flat and smoking is permitted. Too bad, isn't it? they are planning on moving to a larger place more in a suburban area. maybe I can tell DD to make sure that the new place will have "no smoking" policy?

yes, i wouldn't get involved, DD is an adult. but i just wonder? If parents pay for college shouldn't they expect decent behavior from the kids?

I know it is the lesson how to deal with bad people, but frankly she is learning enough lessons already. this is not the lesson she needs. She wouldn't ask parents to interfer, it is my idea. she is independent.

She says that G turned out to be very hard to live with right away but it escalated. It got much worse since they all came back from Christmas break. G didn't go home for Christmas (hhmmm i wonder about that). Now as DD described: G is completely mental lately. G's family seems to be OK. X vaguelly knows them. But i wonder if they are happy she is out of the house and messing up somebody else's life?

Although parents should not get involved, if I or X would find out that DD creates such a misery for roommates and doesn't respect anyone, we would not pay for college. Or maybe pay for college but would not help with cost of living. "You want to smoke in your room and make other people smell it, you want to leave your mess all over, you like to listen to loud music when others study, then you have to pay for it yourself". But i guess G works as all other kids do and maybe pays rent out of her own pocket. Then I doubt parents can say much. And I doubt they know how she behaves. They have younger children at home and as DD says they haven't been visiting and G didn't go to see them either. I wonder if her awful behavior is something to do with her family. Hmmm

maybe I can tell DD to make sure that the new place will have "no smoking" policy? --

ok, we are getting slightly out of my knowledge here since you are talking about London and I have not a clue about tenant-landlord law in London. However, in the US this would be a very bad idea. Why? G has demonstrated that she will live the way she wants to live, the comfort and well-being of her roommates be damned. It is highly unlikely that she will quit smoking in the house, whether or not it is allowed on the lease (I realize I am predicting the behavior of someone I'm hearing a 3rd-hand account of, but taken with a reasonable grain of salt, I'd say a reasonable prediction). In the US, a landlord renting to more than one person will probably have a lease that says "jointly and severally" blah blah. Basically what this means is that the landlord can hold any and/or all of the tenants responsible for money/damages/etc caused by any of them. In your DDs case, G smokes in the house, LL sends a notice to tenants to stop smoking in the house, G ignores it, etc, until landlord kicks ALL THE ROOMMATES out of the home for violation of the lease. Unless landlord has separate agreements with each person, it is not the landlord's responsibility to determine which roommate is violating the lease and hold that roommate responsible. Landlord only has to determine that the lease has been violated and then holds ALL ROOMMATES equally responsible. Now that all the roommates have been kicked out, landlord still gets to be reimbursed for any damages (for example the smell of smoke permeating his non-smoking rental) and for unpaid rent until he can re-rent the place. And he can come after ANY one of the roommates he can find for full payment. This means he could come after your DD for full payment of all damages and money owed by everyone, and she would be legally responsible to pay it (the other roommates would to, but the landlord would not be responsible for determining who owes how much, he can collect from any one he can find and let them worry about getting reimbursed from the others).

If you are renting a place with roommates, you--not the landlord, you--are legally responsible for your roommate's behavior. Basically, you and any roomies are a legal partnership-- just like if a business buys some supplies, one partner can't claim he doesn't have to pay the bill because the other partner placed the order, you are all responsible for each other's behavior.

And I say even more knowing she's in London-- yes, very expensive but I'm quite certain there are other group homes of similar affordibility which she could find if she wants. Tell her to get on craigslist or her campus bulletin boards and start looking. But understand the legal obligations of roommates if you're going to have them.

There will be many people throughout her life that will cause her grief. It's not fair, especially when you see if happening to someone you love (like your daughter), but this will not be the last unavoidable conflict she will encounter and learning how to deal and cope early on is helpful.

FACT:

"G" won't change.

DD can't move out.

POTENTIAL OPTIONS:

1. Perhaps it's time to give your daughter the "high road" conversation. Remind her that in taking the "high road" she is showing how mature she is. Be sure to let her know that sometimes (okay, usually!) the "high road" really sucks, especially when the other person is completely at fault. Hmmm, I'm thinking you should put a better spin on the conversation because my wording seems a bit pessimistic!! Perhaps spruce it up with heroic wording - a hero is self-sacrificing even though they don't always win in the end... Uggh, that sounds almost worse!!

2. Rather than confronting "G," maybe she can try to befriend "G." Perhaps "G" is having some problems and doesn't have many friends. Or perhaps she doesn't know how to express herself in a constructive manner.

Can anyone else add a way of coping with conflict? We're on a stepfamily forum - come on, we're experts on this subject!!!!

thanks quirk. I will make a suggestion to her that maybe few of the girls can separate from the rest and just look for couple of more people to join them in a new place. In this case G can stay with other people if they are OK with appaling life conditions. pay attention: " appaling" was DD's word in her last email. And she is very easy going, doesn't care about noise, smell or mess. So if she says it is bad, it is MUST BE VERY VERY BAD!

thanks. DD used to be best friend with G., she used to share a room. Due to living conditions that G created DD moved out of the room and someone else tried to live with G. it lasted few weeks, someone else kicked G out. then they all decided G has to live in her own room because no one can tolerate her. It is incovenient that she has her own room but nobody wants to share with her. they used to be friends with DD, but DD says it is so bad now that she cannot even talk to her.

--She says that G turned out to be very hard to live with right away but it escalated. It got much worse since they all came back from Christmas break. G didn't go home for Christmas (hhmmm i wonder about that). Now as DD described: G is completely mental lately. --

Is G depressed? If X knows the family, maybe it's not such a bad idea for him to talk to them?

she might be depressed. sounds like that. X knows them only vaguely, met them long time ago dropping DD off or something of the sort. We all live far away from each other now. i wonder if he even has their phone numbers, oh I guess he is not, because I remember him asking me for their phone number this fall due to some other issues- DD lost her phone and we needed to give some information to her. Anyways, I won't talk to parents unless DD approves, i don't want DD to be embarassed. yes it sounds like G is acting out due to some deep issues, if I find anything out next few days i will post it.

Sounds like nobody likes G but that they're wimping out of a confrontation with her.

Could it be that G, knowing all her roommates dislike her, is passive-aggressively saying FU to all of them by smoking more and being even more difficult? It's not much of a stretch...

Perhaps being super-kind and including G in more activities might help?

it is not like they don't like her, it is just impossible to study when somebody is so noisy and it is unsanitary with 6 people to not keep it clean and smoking inside with window closed? They are all there to go to school, and they want to do well.

I worry that if I go there in Easter break i will have to say something and DD already begged me not to. DD warned me about smoke smell. It scares h... out of me that I won't be able to stay quiet. And I know that DD will get angry if I interfer.

I'll see what X says, too late to call now. I will talk to X tomorrow. I am lost what to do.

Sweeby, it might be she does it out of passivelly-aggressively, could be. I know that DD tried to be friendly, but how much can she handle it? Some of the kids go for majors that require clean and quiet, like architecture school, you need to have a clean desk for drafting and if she throws her junk there, work gets messed up! i cannot believe this girl. DD actually is depressed over it. I feel very bad. We don't pay all this money for her to have such experience.