I can understand your worry over your DD's education, that's what mothers do, but it really sounds like your daughter has a pretty good relationship with her dad. If she's happy, just be happy for her getting a new sibling.

I just found out that my DD's BioDad had a little girl with his girlfriend, and since he walked out of her life years ago, I wonder how she'll feel if she finds out he has another daughter whom he takes care of and sees and loves. At this point, I sort of hope he just sticks with his original decision to walk away from my DD and that she doesn't have to know.

More money may make things easier, but it's petty compared to the fact that your DD gets to have a relationship with her father and siblings. I'm sure your X will find a way to provide for all of his children, and until and if he doesn't, try not to worry about it too much.

Oh my, I have to disagree with you. Going to college is not petty. What makes you sure that X will find a way? And many SMs here take the atittude the child will find her own way.

Oh my, as background, I think FD paid more than her shares of child expenses with undertanding that X would pay college.

FD, hugs. You may have to consult an attorney at some point. I wouldnt spend any money now. Do you if your state requires parents to help with college? IF you dont have a CS order, you may have to establish one.

SD's BM just had a baby with her new hub a year ago, putting a 12 year difference between baby and SD. This reduced her CS obligation and obviously caused us to question how much she would be able to help with college. But, we don't really have the right to say anything, so we just grin, bear it and put a little more away for college . . . .

The thing that we have the biggest problem with that your DD likely won't is babysitting. When SD is there EOW she is responsible for watching the baby a lion's share of the time because mom and hubs need a "break." She has been left alone with her several times and though by number her age is old enough to do so we don't feel her maturity level is. But again, nothing we can do but voice our opinion. Our biggest fear is that something will happen to the baby on SD's watch and SD will be blamed (especially by step dad who resents her as is) even though they were in the home and should have been watching the child they chose to create. Watching during a shower is one thing, but while mom and dad nap, fight, read books . . . a little much IMO.

Have you heard how your DD feels about this yet?

KKNY, I did not say college is petty. I said money is petty.

Also, I did not see where she said the X won't find a way to pay for college. If he doesn't and that was the agreement, then surely she should pursue it, but worrying about what might or might not happen won't do anybody any good at this point. Lots of people are strapped for cash when they have a new baby, but they find a way to work things out.

FD, I hope your X figures out a way to help with college. If not, I agree, if that was the deal, make him through the law, but either way, try not to let it sour your DD's relationship with her father, brother, and new sibling.

Has X mentioned how this might affect helping with DD's education? If you're really worried about it, I would go ahead and ask him. There's no use worrying over a maybe. I'm a big worrier too sometimes, and I like to know everything is all set up. If you bring it up and get a bad response, you'll be able to decide what you're next step will be.

Oh my, if the money issue is over money for makeup and hairbands, I agree it is petty. If it is money for college, it is not petty. Money for college is a serious issue.

JNM, I think you have a valid concerns. A 12 year old should not be babysitting an infant. Stepchildren should not be used as slave labor. They are part of a family, and should share in appropriate responsibilities. When they have brief visits, it is tougher to figure that out. I dont think the babysitting is as much an issue for FD's DD, as she has to "fly" to see her dad.

Well, kkny... this is a good example of why you shouldn't make a deal like the one you have. You never know what could happen in the other person's life, five or ten years down the road. New babies, bankruptcy, death...

If the agreement is to pay for college, there should be an account set up to show the money will be there when the child gets to college. If you count on the father having it years down the road, that's a gamble. and you are betting on your kids' college. I'd rather get a check and save it myself or see an account set up, not rely on hope.

My deal is in writing. It was reviwed by attorneys. Dad has substantial assets. And in addition, he is obligated to fund substantial gifts every year to her UGMA account. But that is for her when she graduates.

Everyone is happy with our deal. DD gets expensive college and extras, Dad gets to stay in his expensive house for 10 years, but upon his death, virtually all his assets are legally required to go to DD.

But thank you for your concern.

thanks everybody, oh DD is fine. She is happy. X is crazy, everybody knows that, womanizer. oh well. DD won't have close relationship wuth a new baby anyways. DD is 20. We all are far away now. DD is in college in UK. I am here, US, and dad is in a different country in Europe, two hours flight from DD. Dd and I and X fly here and there every few months. DD is an adult. X's recent divorce from his wife put him min a financial jeopardy so new babies don't fit the picture. I am not sure and don't know if laws in my state even apply because X and I now live in different countries. My mom told me that DD has to hurry up with her schooling before X's other kids are grown and will demand more money. lol I don't mind Dd getting more siblings, I just worry about her education.

DD emailed today that new future SM (TOW) is 27, ouch, DD is 20. DD said that she is so very nice that it is very hard to think of her negativelly as somebody who destroyed her dad's family. It is funny because I never asked anything about TOW. DD rarely if ever spoke of her former SM while X was with her, DD seems to be intrested in talking about this woman, maybe because they are so close in age, oh who knows, maybe she really is nice even though she is TOW... Just a thought...

JNM,

That is sad that your sd goes to her moms EOW or whatever and ends up babysitting! How does sd feel about it? I know my dd and sd are about that age and love helping with relatives babies when we are at family parties, but I think they would get real tired if it was an all the time occurance or they "had" to do it!

helpw/, she gets really tired of it now. When her sister was a newborn it wasn't bad because she slept all the time and was in that cuddly baby stage, but now that she is a year it's a different ball game. She doesn't have a problem if her mom/step dad are doing something - showering, cooking, etc. - but when they go to take naps, want to watch a movie or another "fun thing" and she has to watch the baby so they can her nose gets a little bent and I can't blame her. From what I have heard her mother was like that when SD was a baby as well - if she wants something she wants it and everyone needs to find a way to make it work. The fact that she opted to have a baby and it's her responsibility to care for it rather than her other daughter's doesn't compute if she wants a nap. If she is tired she naps, unlike the rest of us who drink a cup of coffee and soldier on. . . .

We were recently told babysitting isn't one of her new chores, but it's one of her expectations. Huh?

Yikes! 27-year-old SM to 20-year-old DD... and about to have a baby.

Very glad to hear that SD has such a positive attitude (honestly, I don't think I would in her shoes... 'course I'd have to get over it b/c there'd be no choice....) and I REALLY hope that lasts.

The way I see it, a few things are absolutely crucial if this is not going to turn into an intensely fraught situation (for anyone involved):

-DD must never be made to feel like The Babysitter (paid or unpaid, doesn't matter).

-DD must never try to make her Dad feel guilty about having another child.

-Dad must never spend grossly disproportionate time cooing over new baby in DD's presence (he needs to put in some extra effort to make sure DD knows she's still very special to him).

-DD must never resort to immature attention-seeking behaviors to compete with baby, even if she feels insecure or jealous.

-The relationship between DD and new baby should be DD's decision (until the age, of course, when new baby isn't new baby anymore and has his/her own input). If DD wants to feel a strong sibling/family bond [to pre-empt feeling replaced or excluded, maybe?], let her; on the other hand, if she feels awkward with that forced upon her, it shouldn't be pushed.

-New SM must never say anything like what my Dad's wife recently told me, lamenting that he & she never had a kid together: "I wanted to give him someone he could be a Daddy to." Or any other such drivel suggesting that somehow X is not already a father (even if DD is now legally adult age).

-DD must accept that her Dad now has "another mouth to feed" and be gracious about understanding that he has a responsibility to provide for the new baby as well as for her needs.

-Conversely, Dad/SM must never use new baby as excuse for not being able to give promised, important financial assistance to DD. If there isn't enough money to do both, he/SM will have to find a way to make it work regardless.

-Finally, Dad's will/estate plan needs to be revised to include new baby and to be divided fairly. If he were to die while new baby is still a minor, his/her basic needs would have to be met... but DD should not ever, down the road, have to feel disinherited or less important. Whatever he decides, he needs to explain it very thoroughly to all parties involved, the earlier the better, and get that spectre out of the way from the word "go".

If all of the above is honored, there's no reason to presume doom. Problem is that often it isn't honored, one way or the other, and the problems multiply exponentially and fast. Hopefully everyone involved will be aware of all this and strive to prevent problems.

there is no issue of jealousy in our situations, no drama. X has a son from 2nd wife whom DD loves deerly. No jealousy. Cooing at a baby in her presence is more than fine.

DD has a very healthy mature aiitude about many things in life. DD has a wonderful ability to not judge. DD lives very far away from both of us and is in college, no babysitting.

X might be a womanizer but he is a decent father. and DD is very undemanding. I worry that he won't be able to pay for college because I cannot pay and college is not cheap, but DD does not worry.

As about inheritance X has nothing at this point, he'll have three children, had two divorces, pays DD's college and plans on paying his son's college when time comes, if he dies (G_forbid) there is not much to hope for. If i die I leave a debt behind, nothing else. Life insurance for DD. But we are young, no plans for dying. X is 40. Hopefully lives long (and makes more babies lol)

DD will not feel excluded. She did not feel excluded when her brother was born and she was 12 then. DD is an adult. I am proud how we raise her, she is not unhealthy. And she never made neither me nor X feeling guilty for our personal lives. We did a good job.

To clarify: I referred to DD once as "SD" near the top of my last post (only in context of her being "SD" to the new SM)... but I mean "DD" throughout...

That's awesome! Very glad to hear it, and it's inspiring to other families in similar situations.

Serenity..I wanted to give him someone he could be a daddy to........This was surely poorly said by your SM, and I cant imagine saying this to my SSs,but I have often wished my DH and I had a child together..Maybe what she meant was I wanted to give him someone he could be a daddy to, with me....I dont think you should feel negated by the remark, but yes it was poorly said...It doesnt erase you, if your dad has other kids...

serenity, i missed that point in your post. SM said that? awful. I hope dotz is right and she did not mean it.

Dotz, I think the distinctions which you have fortunately and graciously recognized are really important here. And in general, I agree with you that it's perfectly natural for people to want to have kids, and that in healthy situations a new baby shouldn't represent all these negative consequences. My situation with Dad's wife's comments is admittedly unhealthy and I HOPE out of the ordinary!

In my particular situation, the issues kind of braided together to equal one big insult:

-She and I don't have the greatest relatonship to begin with.

-Even though she I guess was trying to sound unselfish by putting it like a baby together would be "for him", it had the effect of making me feel like she thought he needed this baby/"Daddy" experience so badly because he hadn't had it and/or because the child he'd already had [me] was somehow insufficient or disappointing. (I guess the fact that HE's always been against another baby, long ago had a vasectomy, etc. also sort of made her remarks come off wierd and belied her display of "unselfishness" because clearly a baby would be for HER, not him.)

-Given said selfish reasons on her part, the lamenting tone with which she said what she said then just starts to look like some guilt trip and/or way for her to express HER disappointment with me. This was also around the time that she told me that "because of me" visiting at X-mas throughout the years, she somehow was never free to go see her parents & sister in another state, for some reason which remains unclear... And what came out of THAT lamentation was the very next X-mas (2007), with her sister & brother-in-law going to visit her and my Dad for what may very well have been his *last* X-mas, with "no room" for me even though I offered to sleep on the couch/floor. She just didn't conceive of the possibility that we could all spend the holidays TOGETHER, especially since at that time we had jsut recently become officially "family' through her marriage to my Dad in October. Speaking of which, this went down more-or-less the same way when she kept lamenting not being married, on & on relentlessly, until he finally married her. (After which she stopped communication with me and others on my side of the family, even about important things having to do with his cancer, even when asked directly). I believe she blames all of these things (no marriage for so many years, no baby with my Dad, not seeing her family at X-mas...) on ME. So when she laments something to me, it's b/c she feels robbed of it, by me. And when she feels robbed, she goes about robbing in kind, one way or another, she "avenges" herself at my expense.

I am VERY glad to hear that other people are far more mature, aware and sensitive to the way things are said and to whom... because a new baby *should* be a happy occasion for everybody and *should* be brought into the world for the right reasons.

Serenity, I feel for you..This woman sounds not only immature and selfish, but like its all about me, I feel sorry for your dad too...I WISH both SSs were like you..I was hesitant to date someone with kids, not because of the kids, but all my girlfriends had horror stories with the BMs, and I knew what an energy drain that could be,BUT I met my soulmate and charged on..I thought more people in the family would be a GOOD thing, and with one kid it is, one not so..The younger of the 2 seems to like me a lot(he s known me 6 years) and I was so tickled this Christmas when he bought me Lady type gifts, body lotion, scrubs etc, that would make a teen age boy CRINGE to purchase LOL And on his own time(and money, no help from Dad)The older, hates me, I m sure BM has poisoned him, but the younger has a mind of his own, he knows how I treat him...So I wonder, how can I be two different people to two different kids? This began over money he wanted his father to GIVE him, not loan, and now there is an estrangement, and I dont know how to fix it...On my second book(Healing Family Rifts)but I feel the oldest is so wrong and misguided, I want him to talk to his dad, he wont..Sounds like your SM doesnt want things to get better, sigh, but I do...Guess this is for a new thread, sorry to new baby poster...

serenity, your SM sounds awful, I don't question that at all. Just awful.

But i wonder about her complain over her not being able to be with her family.. I wonder if she wanted to go with her DH (then BF) to visit her family and couldn't because you came over on holidays...

It is unreasonable... but I think of SO's older DD (26) who comes here every single holiday and every single school break and sits with dad. he cannot go on vacation, cannot go anywhere because she is here with him every single break and holiday 24/7. Holidays and school breaks are the only time when i am free, i cannot take vacations any other times, so i cannot go anywhere with SO because SD is always always here. And it is not like she asks if dad is going to be around, she just flies here for 2-3 -4 weeks and sits in the house, she has no friends and doesn't get along with mom, so he cannot leave her. memorial holiday, labor day break, easter break, 4th of July, Christmas, thanksgiving, plus additional 3 weeks in summer she flies to be with dad. he is happy this year she goes somewhere else in July so we can have a vacation. i am a bit resentful...

Did your SM feel that she had to stick 24/7 in the house because you were there?

"But I wonder about her complain over her not being able to be with her family.. I wonder if she wanted to go with her DH (then BF) to visit her family and couldn't because you came over on holidays..."

Finedreams, I see your point to some extent about my Dad's wife and visiting her family, and frankly wish I knew there was a problem much sooner. I personally was never told about any issue with it until last year, of course, the year before I was excluded from X-mas, the year during which my Dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer. So I guess what I'm saying is, in normal everyday circumstances, I would have completely understood and been fine with compromising/adjusting my schedule, etc. HAD I EVER BEEN TOLD DIRECTLY there was a problem, like, BEFORE MY DAD IS ABOUT TO DIE.

"...he cannot go on vacation, cannot go anywhere because she is here with him every single break and holiday 24/7."

I'm a very independent person with alot of interests, hobbies and close family/friends all over the country/world who would love to have a visit from me on my limited and finite vacation time, they would have loved it throughout all these years. Incidentally, the two times in my life I ever missed the X-mas-at-Dad's visit ---when I was 17 and 18: the first time because I'd just moved to a new city and wanted to see my friends in the old city, the second time because I'd just graduated high school and moved across the country and started a new job--- I AM STILL HEARING ABOUT THESE TIMES... from ***HER***!!! and STILL being made to feel like crap about "abandoning" my Dad, who in her pot-stirring twist on the situation just "couldn't understand" either of these circumstances in my life at the time. So I CANNOT WIN with this woman and she wants to fault me both ways.

"Did your SM feel that she had to stick 24/7 in the house because you were there?"

Maybe yes, maybe no, but at this point I don't care... mainly because I couldn't please her anyway. *I* certainly never expected that, never insisted she always OR never be around... All I know is Dad and I would plan to do certain activities, stuff she likes to do as much as we do if not more ---ALWAYS with open invite to her to come along--- and she'd rarely if ever come along... but then she'd raise a stink, or her favorite: start a big fight with him so that he'd be distracted/trapped by her s**t-fit (lest he be accused of "abandoning her"), our plans obviously ruined, and they'd be fighting all day while I had no recourse but to find something else to do. (Part of what has made me so independent and with so many hobbies.) So, really, she was going ---and will always--- raise a stink no matter what. She is hell-bent on making a stink about whatever I do b/c she wants a deep permanent wedge driven between me and my father: for her ego, for his money, and for her illusion that he was never married nor had a child before. She pins all of her s**t & issues on me b/c she doesn't have to see me very often (and even that is too much); if I am made "The Problem", and if she succeeds in ejecting me out of my dad's life one way or another (and she's tried most of the ways), then in her mind her illuson of the perfect, legit, egocentric princess life will be complete. She wants to replace me, like, literally, like as a DAUGHTER FIGURE to him. She sits on his lap, talks in baby-talk and calls him "Daddy"...LITERALLY, TRULY... not in the privacy of little bedroom games between just the two of them, but in front of my face and in front of others. She gets him to buy her things, she doesn't do/pay for ANYTHING around the house like a wife/equal partner would... she has her little job, the earnings of which, like a high-school student, pay for her car and hairdo. SHE CALLS HIM "DADDY". I could go on and on, but suffice it to say it's just infantile and sick, and she is so immature it's revolting... And as I said, she doesn't want him to HAVE a daughter because she wants to BE his daughter! That's my assessment of her problem. And, to get back to the original theme of this thread... someone like HER has no business thinking about being somebody's mother, because pretty soon she'd be jealous and in competition with THAT child too, especially if it's a girl...

So anyway the long & short of what has happened in this particular X-mas holiday situation --the way it ultimately played itself out, since her problem was never going to be solved by merely getting her manifest, stated request met (seeing her family at the holidays)-- to REALLY satisfy her, it had to go down that HER sister and brother-in-law came to visit she and my Dad at HIS HOUSE for X-mas this year and for some reason I wasn't allowed to come. "No room" is a bulls**t excuse... there's room (and if there isn't, then at a time like this, you MAKE ROOM). If this particular s**t-fit of hers was about "seeing her family for the holidays", what would have been the problem with me also being there, in my Dad's house? Especially since she just married my Dad so technically *I* am now her "family", too? It's mean-spirited tit-for-tat, selfish and exclusionary no matter what the circumstances, but I have to add she ALSO picked a hell of a time (my dad's last days) to even the "score" she's keeping. I will be lucky if he and I ever have another X-mas together... no matter to me who else is there, I can share my Dad with others who want to be around him.

There is a real danger in standing-on-principle and getting locked into a "me first" tit-for-tat revenge fantasy to the point where a person fails to take into account extremely important considerations and fails to have any maturity or empathy and accept that we don't *always* get our wishes and we don't always have a right to muscle our way, whether we feel wronged or not. There's a danger in picking the wrong time, the wrong people, the wrong battle and sometimes even the wrong wish. My dad's wife and her actions embody this danger.

My son is not getting help from his father to pay for school. I can not afford to help him either except for providing room & board, car insurance, and health insurance. His "father" has not provided him with even $1 for gas money, let alone tuition. Son is paying his own way. The ex has a "new" family with his girlfriend and her grown daughters. If he'd rather pay for them than his son, so be it. He is the one suffering becausd his own children and grandchildren have nothing to do with him.

Kids or stepkids over the age of 18 don't have an automatic right for a free education ride. Sometimes they have to suck it up and pay for it themselves.

dirtfingernails,
you do not know my situation and why X pays for college. i raised DD by myself pretty much and he owes me child support, I prefer he pays for college now. I don't want child support. DD never had much and all of us had a pretty tough life so for him paying for her education (tituion, she works for everything else) is a right thing to do in our cirumstances. the fact that your X doesn't help the kids doesn't mean mine shouldn't either.

Dirtyfingernails,

fyi, in many states, the court can order a divorced parent to help with college.

There is a noted tendancy for children in intact families to get more financial help for college from their parents than children in divorced families.

"Kids or stepkids over the age of 18 don't have an automatic right for a free education ride. Sometimes they have to suck it up and pay for it themselves."

I agree. My son is also paying for most of it himself, not because I can't pay for it, but because I want him to learn to appreciate his education more. I'm 'helping' him but he is expected to do most of it on his own, then if he fails or drops out, he will have lost all he's put into it. I think he's less likely to do that when he has to work & pay for it.

Fine & kkny, you are entitled to your opinions and to do things the way that works best for you, but dirty is also entitled to an opinion that differs. I didn't interpret her post to be attacking or criticizing anyone else's situation, she was only saying what her situation is and her view.

I am not attacking her, I am strongly suggesting she or her son seek legal counsel (after first checking to see if her state is one which can require divorced parents to pay tuition or CS after 18). She is helping.

kkny, I didn't say you were attacking but fine's post sounded like she was defending her situation as if dirtyfingernails had 'attacked' her situation. I just said I didn't think it was said in that way to fine. and I know that you are very much in support of getting tuition or CS after 18 if the law allows it, but that isn't always possible. When I went to court for my son's support, I mentioned tuition and was told it was not something I could get. Many states don't allow it and even if my state allowed it, it can take months to get into court and if it's contested, it can take up to a year to get to trial and the legal costs can be more than what I would get in the end. (of course I'm not dealing with someone that is worth a lot either, so in your situation, it may be worth it to go to court, but a lot of us can't afford thousands for a lawyer to pursue it)

Ima, I am very sympathetic to CPs not having $$ for attorneys. Anyone can check on line to see what their states policies are. Many courthouses have someone to help with filing for CS. As Dirtyfingernails is providing a lot of help for her son, I think she should be aware of options.

Even in-state public schools were I live cost more than a child could earn. I think there are a lot of variables that determine whether a child values an education.

This will be a bit off-topic because it's about college education and how kids get the most out of it. Honestly, I think THE major factor affecting how much a kid values/gets from a college education is whether the kid is READY for one. I first went off to college at 18, by the book, like I was supposed to, in a situation that was an "in-between", money-wise. My mom & stepfather, my dad (but not his GF) and I all split the cost of my college expenses 3 ways, which seems very fair to me (and btw it never occured to me to resent GF not chipping in, but of course it did occur to her to resent my dad helping me). I always had a part-time job throughout school of at least 20 hrs a week. All in all, I think this arrangement was fair and ideal, because a kid DOES need to start learning how to chip in and take on work responsibilities, juggle tasks, etc. And parents *who can afford* to help with college absolutely should because there was no way I could have done all of it on my own. No way, and this was over a decade ago, before the standard-of-living/consumption reached the levels of over-the-top luxury for kids that it's at now (I work at a major university, so I see a vast difference between then and now: 18-yr-olds driving brand new expensive cars, getting plastic surgery for graduation, highest-end laptops & ipods, absurdly well-apointed GATED collegiate apartments, you name it... outrageous). But I'm just talking about BASIC, decent levels of safe & comfortable living. I got plenty of help from my parents, AND consistently worked at least 20 hours a week and scraped by both financially and educationally. Wasn't so smart about finances, had no sense of long-term future consequences for certain youthful mistakes, etc... many 18-year-olds don't. I did pretty poorly in college at that point... but I can't really say it was because of either TOO MUCH nor TOO LITTLE help from my parents. As I said, the arrangement we had was in my opinion about as ideal as it could have been in terms of fairness, realistic expense considerations and me taking on a *healthy* (reasonable) amount of financial responsibility. I dropped out after a few years. Then went to work full-time for a few years, working hard, scraping by but not exactly climbing the golden ladder. I woke up one day and decided to go back to school, decided on a major based on what I now knew I liked after living a bit longer, having more experiences, etc. and got virtually straight A's. Main difference was instead of doing school full-time and working part-time, it was reversed. And I'm lucky that my university offers free tuition for its employees, which I naturally have taken advantage of. Many of you might say that now that I was funding it all myself I was more motivated to do better. But I don't think that's REALLY it. I feel bad that I initially wasted the money my parents helped me with, first go-round with college. But they are all now extremely proud of me for going back and doing so well and neither has any regrets or disappointment about the money (well, except Dad's GF, of course, even though none of it was hers...) I really think the main factor is being ready for college, and with some kids that's right away and for some they may take more time deciding on something that they care enough about to give the necessary devotion. So I guess my point is, step or bio, the kid should really be ready. It's not *impossible* for them to find their own way to succeed if it's important enough to them, given enough years of sacrifice and toil, but if they're really ready for college and especially if they show it by doing well, then if a parent can afford to help, it's a worthwhile investment that helps kids tremendously. If the kid doesn't want to go, or is conflicted, or has no idea what they want to do, and then goes to college and does poorly... then if I was a parent I would say, not punishingly or angrily: "maybe now's not the time for you and college... But if/when you demonstrate that you're really ready for it, I am more than willing to help you." In general, whatever it is (college or trade or their own small business), if they know what they want and demonstrate ability & responsibility to do it, they ought to be helped with those extra funds that it seems to always take, here and there, to fully succeed.

I don't think parents should automatically help children with education especially if children obviously not into education and didn't do well in school. But i think it is pretty easy to predict if kids will value education and will not drop out, right? I mean it is not like I have no clue if my kid wants education. And if tuition is paid, it doesn't mean kids do not work for anything else. DD lives a very modest life, she is frugal, she cooks herself basic meals, she never owned a car and really has almost no possessions besides books. Some parents wouldn't pay for education but kids drive a decent car, have all kind of electronics, fancy clothes. DD has none of that, and never had, so education that's what she will have. She never had much in termns of material stuff so she is far away from spoiled, so she will get help with education because she did very very well in school. It is all about priorities in life.

"My son is not getting help from his father to pay for school. I can not afford to help him either except for providing room & board, car insurance, and health insurance. His "father" has not provided him with even $1 for gas money, let alone tuition. Son is paying his own way. The ex has a "new" family with his girlfriend and her grown daughters. "

It's crossed my mind before, when I'm eiher cynical or clear-headed, not sure which, that parents who are non-custodial, at least the ones who choose to be non-custodial, often treat their children the same way irresponsible pet-owners treat their dogs:

"Aw, we love Jake, he's so cute"
is followed by
"Gawd, who would have known Jake would grow that big/eat that much/chew up the furniture???"
which is followed by
"Jake is just too big, he isn't fun any more, he was a cute puppy, but he's just gotten to be too much trouble, & I don't have time to cope with his problems",
which is followed by

"I'd like to have a new puppy..."
& "Mom will take care of Jake, he'll be just fine, he was always more attached to her anyway".

And sometimes Jake the dog can be fully supported until 23(whats that in dog years)because he s still in dog college (Funded 100% by the BIG Dog....And stand up in church on his dog wedding day and say in front of 340 guests, I m so proud of myself for putting my self thru college...Hhhhmm, maybe fueled by mama dog(whats the name for female dog again) Do you own it , do you acknowledge it??? Had my fill of Dr Phil platitudes...Oh to live in the real world....

sylviatexas,

Your analogy is so perfect.

hah
I also notice that some people have this attitude: since my dog's non-custodial owner bailed out I think that everybody's dogs have to go and feed themselves now. if other dog owners are irresponsible it does not mean we have to be irresponsible too.

ok going with the dog analogy ...

If the dog's nco drops dead and doesn't leave any provisions for the dog ... what happens to the dog..??

If the dog's nco ends up hospitalized in a coma no income but not dead and all the funds the nco has have to be saved for future medical care ... what happens to the dog?

well IF is a big word. NCO is not dead and not in a comma. so far almost all NCOs and COs on this forums are alive and relativelly healthy. if they die or becomes incapable then it would be a different discussion.

If they die, Jake is for sure not their prolem.

& the new puppy isn't their problem either.

My free advice to all:

Get some really good life insurance on your children's other parent, & make sure you're the owner of the policy & you're the one who pays premiums.

Exes & their new spouses might not be as diligent about paying those premiums.

FD,
Sorry if it sounded like I was attacking or demeaning your child's own contributions. Just explaining my situation. When DS graduated high school, I had to go get a loan to pay off the ex's marital lien. I am still angry that when I asked ex if he would help DS with his higher ed, he refused to even give him $5. He hasn't called or tried to see him for 3 years. He didn't call any of the 4 kids to tell them their grandfather died. He has no assets, everything is in his girlfriend's name. He lives on SS disability. There is no way I could get any money from him if I took him to court. He freely gives his money to his girlfriend's 30 year old daughters, though. It's like since we divorced 16 years ago and now are over 18, his job is done and he wants nothing more to do with them. DS tried once last year to call him and establish contact, but that contact was limited to DS's one call. I do help DS when he needs money for books, paid his car & health insurance, and have offered to buy him gas, but he is a proud stubborn boy and wants to do it himself.