yeah, you might be right. 20 months might be too young. I forgot how it is. But i think that if you teach kids that adult has to play with them 24/7, it is going to go beyond 20 months. they will always demand full attention. And then they will rbel. But maybe they do have to get a little older.

I was SHAM until DD turned 3 and a half. i remember that she still liked to pay with her toys alone starting maybe 12 months or so or hanging out with other kids. I don't know what is the right way, I just doubt my SIL's way is the right one because of how my niece is raised. She is a very smart girl but she has no skills to be by herslef. In fact my nephew was raised the same way 24/7 smothering and now he rebells pretty bad and has bad relationship with his mother. SIL always insisted that her way is the right way as opposed to mine, but unfortunatelly her theory falls apart in a long run. I think balance is important.

During this Christmas break SIl told me that she envies how close DD is to me, physical affection as well as wanting to spend time with me. And I was never 24/7 smothering type of mom, it is just not my style.

It made me sad for my SIL. SIL was SAHM 100% involved and nephew is pretty much estranged from her and both me and my parents fear that niece will grow up to be estranged the same way.

I have read estranged thread in parents forum (looking for help with my nephew) and many parents come across as overly involved when kids were growing up. Kids need space or they will eventually rebell or disengage. My mom was never smothering overly involved in her children's life and now I am greatful she wasn't.

FD, I dont think you can generalize from experiences with a particular child. All children are different and devlope differently.

I would also suggest that if DAD took a more active role, then it would be easier for mom to ease off. Again, why do I suspect Dad is complaining? Becuase he isnt doing his share.

I would be more worried if the children did play happily by themselves for more than a few minutes. One of my friends said that when her daughter was a baby and toddler, her daycare provider used to comment on what a "good" baby she was, content playing by herself. It turned out that her daughter was on the spectrum, quite severely involved. Now, as an adult, she is not capable of living on her own.

Three kids under two IS a full-time job - more than a full-time job. They can not be expected to play by themselves for more than a couple of minutes. There is a reason that family day care providers are not allowed to have more than two kids under two. Even at three, children rarely engage in anything other than parallel play, although twins may play together more at this age.

I don't think it is possible to interact with children of this age too much. What you need is more hours in the day, not less time interacting with your children.

I have to agree with Ima. Kids are very impressionable and these are their formative years, so teaching them that playing amongst themselves for a little while each day won't hurt them at all but teaches them the independance that they'll need as they get older. It also teaches them to share and how to entertain themselves.

A 7 month old? I dont think so. Maybe in a few months for the 20 months olds. And "watching a show"? I dont think so. 3 kids, whom I presume are all in diapers, or learning to use toilet. Need to be fed. Please.

I have to disagree. Babies and toddlers do not learn independence by being forced to. Babies and toddlers need to feel secure, through having their needs met, through knowing that their mom (and dad) are their for them. It is also important to keep in mind that twins often reach developmental stages slightly later than singletons, and that every child is different. They will become plenty independent soon enough, probably when they reach the terrible twos. I pretty much carried most of my infants around most of the time - only one of them was content to sit in a bouncy seat nearby for more than a few minutes. All of them grew into independent adults/teens/almost teen.

From Dr. Sears' site at http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/T131500.asp

"Babies will naturally become independent. It is not your job to make them independent but rather to provide a secure environment that allows them to become independent."

I believe I've read somewhere that it is impossible to spoil a child under the age of 2. Depending upon the person being asked, some would say that interaction would equal spoiling (if you hold your baby too much then you are spoiling them blah blah blah). Under this theory (if in fact I did read it somewhere and I didn't dream it!!)then there is never too much interaction, especially with children under the age of 2... Anyone else hear of something like this???

Well my son was an only child when he was a baby, and had to be in daycare during the day so when we were home together during the week I gave him constant attention. On the weekends I would let him play by himself in the same room as me with his toys a little while I worked on homework (I was in college at the time).

Last weekend I was watching my two sisters kids, their babies are 15 months and 6 months old...so pretty close to the ages on here. The 15 month old needed lots of supervision because she was walking all over, but she did not demand me to play with her constantly because she was so curious playing with everything and moving around. The 6 month old was crawling around and playing with her soft toys. They even played by eachother for a while quietly. And I also spent time playing with them both. So I do not think it is a bad thing, or impossible to have kids at that age play independantly for a bit

While I do not think that they can play by themselves for hours at a time at their ages, you should be able to get an hour or so of time to sit in the same room as them and enjoy a book or t.v. show while they play.

I don't know but my DD was playing by herself at that age. I could set her up on an activity mat and make a circle of her toys and she would entertain herself... I would be able to clean or read a book or whatever. Every now and again she would want to show me something or whatever and I would ooh and ahh for a minute but then I would Mommy is still working on this or whatever play with your toys. My daughter is very independent. My DH's kids... not so much. They feel like they have to be entertained at all times of the day...

Just have a certain time that is play time for them ... set up an area for them and let them play on there own... and if they ask you to play... acknowledge them but say Im sorry mommy is doing this or that.

Momof4,

When your child was 7 months she played by herself??

And did you have 3 under 2 years old? Becuase even if one can play for a little bit, then it means you may be changing diaper or feeding another?

Exactly mom_of_4 and mom 2 emall!

No one is saying completely abandon the baby, TOS and KKNY. We're simply saying, mom needs a break sometimes and baby should be ok playing by itself for 15-20 minute intervals.

My son was never the real clingy type, he loves being with myself and my ex, but he's never been very demanding. When he was a baby he'd sit on his actavity mat and play with his cars and his little books and other toys for an hour while I sat across the room in a chair folding laundry or something. Today he's very outgoing, rambunctious, and independant but he still values his "mom time" too.

lone, I don't think you can spoil a child under two but they can be conditioned to respond to you in a different way. Mom walks through the door and they know if they whine & cry, she will pick them up. They are at an age where they are learning that action equals reaction. Dad doesn't respond like mom so they don't expect it from dad. I wouldn't call them spoiled or that they choose to behave that way, but they know who will respond to the whining. And autonomy begins to develop at this age too, so playing alone for an hour (or even just half an hour) is not a big deal. (Not the 7 month old, I think I said earlier that the twins could do something while the baby is napping) and at 20 months old, they may be interested in watching a show on TV. (Something like Barney where there is singing) It depends on the child's personality more than anything. I don't think it's wrong to interact with them or that it's too much, but behavior is mostly learned (and also depends on personality) and if you reward the behavior you don't want, then you will continue to get that behavior. (ie. If you pick up the child as soon as you walk through the door all the time, they will expect you to do that all the time and when you walk through the door and can't pick them up right away because you are busy, then they will cry or whine. If you walk through the door, acknowledge them but take care of other things for a few minutes, get settled and then pick them up, they will learn to wait.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Kidsgrowth.com

kkny, we are talking about 20 months, not 7. 20 months old children have to be able to play with each other or by themselves at least a little. kkny, I don't make generalizations based on only my family. my family is just an example. I am a professional and know what i am talking about.

and even at 6 months DD liked to sit and play with toys with me in the room. she wanted me in the room but i could do somehting else. nobody is talking making children be by themselves all the time. i am talking about healthy balance.

anything unhealthy will lead to a catastrophe in the future.

FD, there are 2 20 months old and one 7 month old. I think many professionals would see this differently.

OP's problem is that 20 months old children do not play by themselves at all. and nag and cry when mom is home. she didn't say anything about 7 months old.

being able to invent games and play is a prediction that children will have inquisitive nature when they grow up.

also quality doesn't mean quantity. 24/7 smothering does necesarilly mean you provide quality upbringing.

once again nobody is talking about ignoring little children, it is all about healthy balance in moderation. At least few minutes a day they have to be able to do something!

"I have twin 20 month olds & an almost 7 month old. My days are constantly spent playing, feeding, & nurturing these little ones from the time I get up until the time I go to bed." --from OP

I gotta admit, I dont have experience with 3 children under age 2, but it seems like OP is referring to her entire situation and it seems like a full time job (or more) to me, and I think DH has just gotta pitch in a little more.

I have a two year old, a one year old and a NB. If they are awake, I spend time with them. You CANNOT give small children too much attention. As they grow they will grow into their independence so enjoy it now, by the time their teenagers spending time with Mom won't be 'cool'.

KKNY,

I am assuming that if misty is a sahm then her husband works full-time, meaning that he is not home to pitch in during the day!

Even at 7 months old a child can crawl around and play with toys independantly for a little while while the mom is in the same room. I know some 7 month olds are still small enough to go in an exercauser or in one of those jumper things you hang in the doorway. I forget how old my son was, somewhere right around 7 months, and I would put him in the jumper in the door of our bathroom while I showered and he enjoyed jumping up and seeing himself in our mirror. I was able to take long showers and relax a little while I could still see him and he was entertained.

When I was in college I worked in daycare we would have "nap time" at the same time each day for the whole center from toddlers to preschoolers. Maybe you can get your older two on the same nap schedule and even the younger one. That way you get a little time each day while all of them are napping!

I agree with ima about the conditioning. Children are very smart and react to those around them. If they come to realize that every whine gets them held, well then they will whine. They will feed off your cues, so cue them to play independantly a little bit.

I assumed the problem is he isnt sympathetic and helpful when he gets home. I beleive you cant spoil a baby by holding him. You can spoil older children. And there are studies that indicate that children who spend a lot of time in day care have issues later on. I am not saying every day care, and I am not knocking people who have to work.

I think Ima summed it up in her last post. A child does not feel abandoned or less connected to mom or dad if they are playing on the floor at mom/dad's feet. They know a parent is there if needed, but they don't have to be sitting on their lap. I'm not saying they should be detached from a parent all the time, but 15 minute intervals at that age would be totally appropriate. They are little sponges and soak up everything, so yes - if you teach them to whine for their wants that is what they will do into the future. Telling them "mommy is unloading the dishwasher, when I am done I will play that game with you" is not neglect.

In the evenings DH should be helping, but if he is gone during the day Misti has to find a routine that works for them all, and that will allow dad to slide in when he gets and Misti to slide out home without an uproar.

If DH works the whole day it is expected that mom spends more time with kids. I know some stay at home dads and they are spending more time with the kids while wives work. Common sense.

I think mom wants 5 minutes to herself and complained to hubby his response what's the big deal they sit and play by themselves when you are not here why can't they do it when you are here... you spend too much time entertaining them they "need" you ....

She just wants to know is it ok to take time for herself and do it with out feeling guilty.

YES .... I remember nap time as the best time of the day I could sit and enjoy a warm cup of coffee.

YES being able to go potty without a child banging on the door is a good thing.

Its all tears and whining when you walk in the door because the rest of the time you are there for tears and whining. They have to make up for lost time ... even though they have no concept of time.

You SHOULD respond when babies and toddlers cry. It is how they learn to feel secure, that their world is predictable and safe, that mom (or dad or other caregiver) will be there for them. Lonepiper, you are correct that many experts say a child under 2 can not be spoiled.

Of my six children, only one of them was crawling before 8 months. A typical 7 month old child is not crawling around after toys. Typically they can reach for toys and mouth them, but that is about it. It would be an unusual 20 month old child who could amuse himself for more than about 5 continuous minutes. A 20 month old child would probably watch television for a little while, but no matter how educational the show, a lot of experts believe that it is a bad idea to let them watch television at that age. They certainly should not be spending a great deal of time in front of the tv.

With three children under two, it is highly unlikely that all of them will be playing contentedly simultaneously. The OP must be spending hours each day just changing diapers.

And of coure, a SAHM spends more time with children. But unless she has paid help, Dad is going to have give her some time at night when he gets home.

My 18 month old nephew has different attitudes towards his parents...

My sister is who he wants if he bumps his head or is tired and cranky. He goes to her for hugs and kisses. If she says "Mommy is busy. I will pick you up after I am done" he usually waits but stays right with her. If she says "No. Don't touch that" he tests it once or twice, but then he's done with it.

My BIL is who he wants if he wants to wrestle or if he wants a toy he can't reach. If he says "Daddy is busy. I will pick you up after I am done" he cries and runs away. If my BIL tells him "No. Don't touch that" he tests it two or three times at least and comes back to it awhile later.

My theory is that the difference is mostly from that my sister is very calm and even with him, but my BIL is less predictable from the baby's point of view.

I'm not sure what a solution is for you... but maybe try to look at the differences between how you and DH interact with the babies? Maybe you'll find a difference that could be causing it all?

that's a good point ceph, kids need consistency.

The real quention here is if you would like more time to yourself? If you would then you SHOULD take that time, but if you don't mind being with them 24/7 who cares. You're the one that has to deal with it! My SS is nine and he is like Leach. He wants someone around all the time and if we go to another room he is right there two steps behind us. We don't care though. We know the day will come when we'll be begging HIM to spend time with us!! LOL!!

usually children of anywhere between 6-8 months can sit unless they are seriously delayed. So if they sit, don't they play with something? Before children can sit down, it is tough for them to play by themselves, agree.

And at age 20 months most children talk. It is very common and normal for 20 months old child to play with toys way more than 5 minutes. And if mom is in the room (and hopefully adult is always there in the room) children of 20 months communicate to adults. Most children of 20 months talk, maybe not complete sentences but still...Of course if we are talking about delayed children, it is a totally different ball game, but I thought we are not discussing it..

I agree, they should not be watching TV at all at this age. DD didn't watch TV until maybe 3 years old at all! Well there was not much for young kids to watch...

And most children of age 20 months can be potty trained at least when they are awake during the day, so no need to constantly change diapers during the day. Why can't they go to the bathroom at this age?

Yes, adults should always respond when young children cry and children should be comforted.

I am very surprised that people describe 20 months old children as infants.

If they can sit, they can play by themselves? You are combining physical and emotional/mental skills/deveopment. I dont agree.

As to toilet training -

Studies indicate that many children who begin training before 18 months are not completely trained until after age 4. By contrast, most of those who start around age 2 are completely trained before their third birthdays.

When my DD started nursery school at 2, the school said diapers OK. I dont know where you get "most children of age 20 months can be toilet trained" - but I dont agree.

Bottem line, this woman has said she is busy all day with 3 kids under 20months. I dont disagree.

sounds like hubs wants the attention!

I've known women who, for instance, nursed their children until the children voluntarily gave it up & turned to sippy cups.

Their children were happy, well-adjusted kids.

Mothering little bitty children *is* a full-time job, no coffee breaks, & poor old hubs needs to pitch in & add to the quality of life for his family, wife included.

Potty trained at 20 months? I am sure some exist, but no child I've ever met... Not to mention that changing diapers is FAR easier than having to rush a child to the bathroom every hour or two, when you have 20 seconds to get there or it's too late.

Maybe they can sit up at 6-8 months (but it is usually closer to 8 months before they are really steady). So they can hold a toy and chew on it, until they drop it - and it bounces out of reach - or they try to reach for another toy and they topple over.

Any way you look at it, with three kids under two you are lucky if you get a chance to eat a peanut butter sandwich.

My DH is a good Dad but doesn't like interacting w/ the little guys more than about 5 minutes. He will change diapers & do the dishes though so I take advantage of that. He also likes taking them for walks down to the park when the weather is good.
I have been experimenting the last few days after reading these posts. The boys are playing more with each other. I'm kind of like the referee when they play together. I also got a t.v. monitor so I could watch them & see how they interact without me & not be so paranoid about them getting hurt. I think that is a problem I have had since losing Brittani. I am in constant worry over their well-being. The baby is sitting some on his own & I'm propping him w/ a boppy. He does like all the toys & will stay satisfied for about 10 minutes.
Thank you all for your input. The parenting skills are so broad & it's good to hear all the advice.

I think you just hit the nail on the head, Misti. This is about YOUR comfort level with YOUR children. We can all argue until we are blue in the face about what children should or shouldn't be doing at what age, but none of it matters and we are all right in some way. My first son was walking by 9 months and potty trained by 26 months but didn't talk much until he was almost 3. My second son walked at 11 months, wasn't potty trained until almost 3, but talked in full sentences by 20 months. Who am I to tell you which one was "right"? What matters is what makes you and your kids happy. I can completely understand your paranoia and think it's natural. You need those children, and in some way they probably sense that, which is another reason why they are attached to you and may fuss when you aren't there. Only you can set your boundaries, so test them slowly and see what happens.

One thing though, and I'm going to get snitty. There are several things I don't *like* doing regarding being a parent. That doesn't make them optional. My DH isn't a big baby person - he is wonderful once they are walking and able to ball. :-) This didn't mean he got to be a drop in parent though and leave when he was *done.* He was half responsible for their birth, and he is half responsible for their upbringing. I'm sure you would like to be *done* and go read a book or take a nap, but do you give yourself that option? No - so why should you give it to him??

Don't set a precedent now that will be detrimental to you all - kids included - down the road. They need their dad time just as much as they need their mom time, and 5 minutes doesn't cut it.

I'm proud of you for learning to let go . . . . hugs.

JNM, I like your snittiness.
DH says when they are a little older he will enjoy them more. I wonder if any men like babies? I never give myself the option of napping & reading a book is a joke. DH is kinda sneaky that way. I've noticed him going into the bathroom atleast 5 times in a day & spending like 20 minutes in there. I'll open the door & he's reading. Maybe I should do that to him.
Parenting & spousing is trial & error much of the time it seems. Little steps! Thank you

Oh my GOd! how do you do it!!!! 3 young children!!! oh man, yah, i would leave at times to leave my husband to do things with my son cause if i was there, he just expects that i will change the diapers and play etc..etc..and of course do the dishes and clean the house..lol...eheheh
So my friend veena told me just get up for a coffee. Give him no choice. Tell him i'm out at this time and will be back at this time. later! take care of your son. bye bye...lol...it worked! I had a heart attack from worry wheni first did it but it works!

kkny and tos
i guess my experience with children being potty trained rather early comes from growing up in Europe. Children are potty trained much earlier than in the US. same with strollers. You couldnn't make DD to sit in a stroller starting 16-18 months, just no way. Most kids were out of strollers pretty early. i was surprised to see kids in strollers as old as 3 years old here! i first thought they are having disabilies. same with pacifiers, 2 is probably the oldest age you ever see anyone with a pacifier.

I guess putting kids in strollers, diapers and sticking pacifiers in their mouth always meant to me that parents are lazy. It is much easier to make them wear diapers than training them to go to the bathroom and is much eaiser to run around with a stroller than slowing down and walking at the kid's speed and it is much eaiser to make them suck on a pacifier than answering their constant questions. and no wonder kids grow up unable to talk and play and explore the world. then they go to school and we are surprised they have limited vocabulary and have no intrinsic motivation whatsoever. Well duhhh, what did you expect? If they are treated like infants up until they are ready to go to school...

i realize that others disagree, it is fine.

Apparently from what I have read, the French (so possibly all Eurpoeans) toilet train earlier, but in the US, children are taken off the bottle earlier. So lets not call parents in the US lazy, there are different standards.

In the US, where families have less access to state subsidized child care, 3 children under 2 is going to be difficult.

I would also suggest to OP, if money is an issue, to start getting children, especially the older ones, on list for Headstart, etc programs. I dont think OP is lazy, just stressed.

specifically because it is very difficult to raise 3 young children (and I am under impression that OP is SAHM so I don't understand what is it about child care?) they have to be able to play with each other and probably should do some other stuff like maybe go on the toilet otherwise mom will go crazy. When young children are in day care it is a different story, different expectations, I would expect them to be in diapers and with bottles much longer because mom is not there and it is easier for care givers this way.

I was talking about children being raised at home, this country or any other one.

And I am suggesting that even if she is SAHM she could use a break, and one like Headstart might be a place to look. When a mom only has one child, she can nap, shower while child is napping. With 3 under 2, I think it is tough.

it is tough, that's why maybe kids should be taught a little bit more independency when there is more than one. 3 young kids is crazy.

My cousin has triplets, they are 4 now, it is still very tough. But it got a little better, it used to be a nightmare. Girl is playing and drawing and coloring by herself for at least some time and is rather quiet and was this way pretty early, but boys are handsful, are extremelly hyper and need 100% attention. They started to go to day care last year every other day because my cousin went back to work but they are constantly sick. I admire how my cousin and her husband don't go crazy. She was pretty depressed the first year and had to go on medication but it is fine now.

As far as the twins, they never used pacifiers...I wish. I think being in diapers takes alot more energy than one being potty trained. I would love to only change 10 diapers a day versus 30. Potty training won't start until 2 unless someone here has advice to offer. Usually takes longer w/ boys. My daughter was potty trained by 2, but the twins aren't as advanced as her in that area. They unroll the tp, flush the toilet constantly, & attempt to play in the toilet. They are very busy boys. As for a stroller, I wish my boys liked being in a stroller. It's much safer. Tell me this anyone.....how do you take these three on a walk safely without a stroller? I have found with boys they are much more energetic & risk takers. Thanks for all the advice. Headstart? My biggest twin gets bored easy & would probably benefit from a more stimulating environment. That may be something to check into. Thank you all again for the info.

I used to use a backpack for my middle son (1), a front pack for my daughter (NB) and my older son walked. He was 3.

misti, when my cousin put her triplets to day care for 2-3 days a week they calmed down a bit but they are sick all the time, if one catches a cold the other gets it right away, when they were at home they were never sick. so be prepared for that. me and my brother are one year apart and whenever we were at a day care we were always sick because one would make the other one sick all the time. our parents gave up and kept us at home.

i generally think that if you can afford it, keep kids at home until they are 3. there will be plenty of time for schools in the future. Just my opinion.

They are much safer in a stroller. Some people use those baby leashes, but that would be much harder with two of them running in different directions. I agree that they are too young to toilet train - and it's not like you could let them go to the bathroom unsupervised anyway, unless you wanted to fish toy trucks out of the toilet.

Is there any reason to think that they may have any mild developmental or speech delays? Your town should have screenings for anyone at risk - and merely being a multiple would be considered at risk most places. The preschooler of someone in my town was able to go to a special needs/integrated preschool, and I think the basis for that was not a disability but rather because his father had died, leaving his wife with three kids under 4 and one on the way. I think the little boy was considered socially at risk. My daughter attended the same preschool, due to her language delays, and it was a good experience for her. Door-to-door transportation, in a van with car seats and seat belts, was provided.

I think at 20 months, this is within the range. Cant hurt to get tested.

THE ONE I THINK HAS DEVELOPMENTAL ISSUES IS THE DAD WHO WANTS HIS GF TO TAKE CARE OF 4 CHILDREN, INCLUDING A 6 YR OLD AND 3 UNDER 20 MONTHS.

I think misti is married to her husband, and they have 3 kids at home, twins and one 7 months old. there is no one of 6 years old there. I think misti has teenage SDs but they don't live with them and rarely visit.

My comment was meant for OP

fd, kkny was talking about jjfoster's post, "Help, My Boyfriend's Daughter", etc.

& I don't disagree, but then I think a *lot* of these guys need to get "tested"...

or maybe chewed out by someone with some clout (their father or mother or maybe a Marine drill sergeant)!

Yeah....I think I remember jjfoster's post was a little heartbreaking. I wanted to hug the little girl & felt the gf was overwhelmed. Finedreams...you're correct on my stats. Sylvia....you did well enough with what you wrote when responding the first time to help my DH see another view. Thank you!